Which DVD-Recordable Drives? 201
We've had a couple stories recently about DVD-RW and such. I'm wondering what ones out there people have used, how well they work, what's the support etc etc. I'm also still on my quest to build the ultimate quiet machine, so any comment on the amount of noise the drive generates would be great - I love my Yamaha Drive for burning - but it's a *loud* one.
Not completely off topic(on quiet cdburner). (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not completely off topic(on quiet cdburner). (Score:1)
I've never burnt a coaster (I'm on my second 100 pack, and have tons of iso's)
Re:Not completely off topic(on quiet cdburner). (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Not completely off topic(on quiet cdburner). (Score:1)
PS. "It was useful"
PSS. "It was useful"
PSSS. "It was really really useful"
PSSSS. Do I get karma for this?
Re:Not completely off topic(on quiet cdburner). (Score:1)
(Just the two cents for those of you who eschew IDE.)
Dual layer (Score:3, Insightful)
So, when will be see dual-layer DVD-R's - the MPAA's true nightmare. Or even better, the quad layered DVD's that the spec originally had in it for 17+GB!!!
Re:Dual layer (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dual layer (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Dual layer (Score:1)
Re:Dual layer (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dual layer (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dual layer (Score:2)
Automan on one DVD
Re:Dual layer (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dual layer (Score:1)
www.dvdwriters.co.uk (Score:5, Informative)
technology:
http://www.dvdwriters.co.uk
Slightly offtopic (Score:2, Interesting)
I think its DVD-R (Score:3, Insightful)
I've played DVD-RW in my Pioneer DVD (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I think its DVD-R (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.proh.com/DVD_and_CD_compatibility_char
Re:Slightly offtopic (Score:5, Informative)
From what it says there, DVD+RW is both cheaper and more compatible than DVD-RW, for about the same capacity. DVD+RW uses a slightly different technique that reduces gaps between data to give compatibility with the "vast majority" of existing DVD players. It is also apparently more flexible in burning compatible discs, 7x faster to close the session, and allows erasing of individual sections, rather than just the whole disc.
HP are shipping their first dvd100i DVD+RW drive this month for US$599. DVD+RW media will reportedly sell for about US$16 (compared to the US$24 I've seen for DVD-RW media). Philips have announced their standalone DVD+RW unit, and will ship the bare drive in October.
Apparently, initial units will only support DVD+RW/DVD-ROM/CD-R/CD-RW/CD-ROM, but DVD+R (analogous to DVD-R, but apparently also cheaper/more compatible) is promised shortly via a firmware upgrade. DVD-R media support may also be available.
FWIW, my own experiences with DVD-R are mixed; 2 of the 4 DVD players and DVD-ROM drives I've tried DVD-R discs with would not recognise the discs at all. I plan to get a dvd100i as soon as they're available
I recommend... (Score:1, Troll)
Supported by windooze and linux.
I have no clues about the *BSD support, though.
The large windooze software bundle is cool, too.
It makes rarely any noticable noise.
Re:I recommend... (Score:2)
about the noisy yamaha drives... (Score:1)
Re:about the noisy yamaha drives... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:about the noisy yamaha drives... (Score:1)
Re:about the noisy yamaha drives... (Score:1)
This may seem obvious but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:2)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:3, Informative)
Are you sure that there are players that won't play unencrypted DVDs? Because I have a pack here of unencrypted DVDs, and they seem to work fine in all DVD players around here. (Mind you, I am in France right now). However I'd assume that any video that's not copyright or protected (i.e. broadcasted TV, or perhaps commercials or music videos or those "how to use your super duper vacuum!" VHS tapes that you get, I'm sure they don't need to be encrypted. ?
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Are you serious? What about all of the *legal* films (and other multimedia whatevers) which are on unencrypted DVDs? I personally own an unencrypted DVD - it came with Diablo 2 and contains all the cinematic sequences, plus a lot of other stuff. Are there companies that make DVD players which *intentionally* won't play my DVD, simply because they can't distinguish it from one that *might* be pirated? What happens when people start burning home video to DVD, without encrypting it? Tough luck? If this is true, and especially if the players are not advertised as having this `feature' (which must surely be illegal, as it would be unable to play a disc conforming to the DVD standard), I fail to see how the manufacturers would justify it. The purpose may be reasonable, but taking away a person's right to use something they legally own is most definitely not.
Wait a minute, that argument seems vaguely familiar...
Non-conforming players (was Re:This may seem...) (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, but there is no way that players not conforming to the standard are `illegal' in the sense of the law. If they were, then there would be many manufacturers of early DVD players who would be being sued by consumers for non-100%-conforming players, which wouldn't play their discs properly.
Hmmm, consortium-based standards.
Re:Non-conforming players (was Re:This may seem... (Score:1)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
Aren't unencrypted discs officially region 0, or something like thar? I find it hard to believe that players would have this limitation.
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:3, Informative)
I too have had experiences with FutureShop reps: I tried to buy a multi-DVD player/changer and told them that I needed one that supports CD-Rs... they told me that they only had one that handled CD-Rs, and it just happened to be the most expensive one there. After getting it home, I found that it didn't support CD-R's at all. Wankers! One of the few reasons I use FutureShop is their good returns policy
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
-asb
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:5, Informative)
1) There are 2 DVD standards
a) DVD for authoring
b) DVD for general use.
2) DVD for authoring DVD-Rs can only be burned on drives that support this standard. Currently the cheapest of these drives is still $5k+
3) DVD for general use does not support encryption or region coding.
4) 99% of standalone DVD players built in the last 18 months support DVD or General Use DVD-Rs.
5) It is completely possible to copy a commercial (DVD authoring std) to a DVD-R for general use, however, it must be decrypted first. It must also fit onto a 4.7G DVD-R disk, 75% of commercial DVDs will not fit. I have verified that it is possible to produce a perfect digital copy of a commercial disk.
6) There is a lot of misinformation floating around re: DVD-RW & DVD+RW. Both standards work well withe existing h/w. There is not much to choose between them.
7) I have the Pioneer A03 IDE DVD-RW drive. It's an excellent piece of h/w and can be purchased for $650. I have used it for burning home movies (boy, is that a long process!) and for data backup.
8) DVD-R media can be had for $8. DVD-RW for $21. Checkout www.meritline.com if you don't believe me.
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
What you're saying is that 75% of commercial DVDs can't be copied onto the DVD media that 99% of us will use, right?
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
4.75G is basically a single layer one sided disc... most DVD's out there these days are actually double layer... most movies are between 5G and 7.5G depending on extra tracks, etc...
BUT... You might select what audio/video streams you want to copy, reduce the total size and fit it in a DVD-R most of the time... but it would loose the authoring made on the original DVD (menu's and all that)... and you will need an authoring tool to make a simple menu for you stripped down mpeg-2 file.
Haven't seen a free authoring tool yet... they either run from cheap/simple to expen$ive/full authoring.
I've only used a trial version of dvdit, quite simple to use though...
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
As far as comparing "DVD ripping" to "cd ripping", they're completely different things. DVDs use a normal ISO9660 file system, and the movie is stored as encrypted files.
"DVD ripping" is just copying the file and decrypting it. A 1x DVD-ROM from way back can rip DVDs.
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:1)
This is what I do with Netflix rentals. As soon as I get a DVD I rip them to my hard drive and send the DVD back. Then I watch it when I want to. If I like it, I'll compress it with DivX, otherwise I'll just delete the
From ripping I use SmartRipper. I've used CladDVD in the past which is also good.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:This may seem obvious but.. (Score:2)
Nope, they use a normal UDF filesystem, but otherwise, you're correct.
ON TOPIC (Score:5, Informative)
There is the Pioneer DRV-103/A03 unit that is used in the G4 Power Macintosh computers.
It is a DVD-R / DVD-RW
It writes and rewrites DVD and CD media, and it's DVD movies are playable in set top box DVD players.
The other prevalent drive is a Panasonic unit that is DVD+RW, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, CD (no CD recording, just playback.)
Plextor, Yamaha and others are largely reselling these mechanisms.
Expect to pay about 500-1000 dollars US for one of these units. These are DVD General drives, and cannot be used as Masters for DVD reproduction use. The DVD Authoring drives are SCSI, cost upwards of $5000, and the only one I know if is a Pioneer unit. (Doesn't mean there aren't others, but I haven't done my homework to find them.)
God bless America, and may her enemies cower in fear.
Re:ON TOPIC (Score:3, Informative)
Re:ON TOPIC (Score:1)
Aha!
--nbvb
Excellent White Paper from Pioneer... (Score:1)
DVD+RW (Score:4, Informative)
good site for information (Score:3, Informative)
Re:good site for information (Score:2)
Compatability not much of an issue. (Score:5, Informative)
Check out
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3 [dvddemystified.com] for a nice compatability grid.
Because of that, I would go for price or bundled software.
Re:Compatability not much of an issue. (Score:2)
As another poster posted, I'd go for capabilities and longevity [slashdot.org] instead; probably CD+RW.
heres quite (Score:4, Funny)
You said nothing about convinent...;)
Actually putting it in an external case may make it less audible.
Re:heres quite (Score:1)
Only one I've used (Score:1)
I haven't done much with it, as the computer it is in is not mine and I only got to use it for a day (so very sad).
Linux Support? (Score:3, Interesting)
max pc (Score:3, Informative)
Making Yamaha drives quiet (Score:3, Funny)
With all machines totally, truly silent (except for one with a really old hard-drive) the Yamaha sounded like a damn airplane!
Luckily I had an empty bay underneath so I just took the bottom of the drive housing off, unplugged the original fan and put a much quieter case fan under it, pointing up at the only chip which got hot.
It still makes some noise while it's actually burning, but at least it's no worse than a normal CD drive. That factory fan is the culprit!
Re:Making Yamaha drives quiet (Score:2)
My Yamaha CRW-8424 has a horrible little 25mm fan in it that makes more noise than the rest of my PC together (partly thanks to QuietPC [quietpc.com]). I'm just waiting for Papst [papst.com] to actually have stock of their funky temperature sensitive quiet fans in 25mm... Apart from that, and no CD-TEXT support, it's a great little drive though.
Standalone with computer connectivity (Score:2)
No computer connectivity (Score:1)
Writable DVD (Score:5, Informative)
Back when DVD-ROMs were first developed, pleas to include "linking areas," also called "run-in" on magnetic media, were ignored. This meant that there would be no space to write bits to allow the data clock to be recovered. This is not a problem with a continuously written disc, as the "earlier" data can be used.
However, with most technologies, the start of writing can vary hundreds of bits from its nominal location. This means that if you write sector 1, and later write sector 2 on its tail, there is no way to align the data clock to the data in time to read the data of sector 2, since the first bits are used to recover the clock.
DVD-RAM addressed this problem by introducing a new format. There are small embossed address headers to mark where each sector might be, and a small written run-in for each recorded sector. This media is highly susceptible to scratches, since the embossed headers are easily obscured by dust or a scratch. Also, having the embossed headers means that these discs are INCOMPATIBLE with DVD-ROM drives.
DVD-RAM discs also use land/groove recording. This means changes to the servo mechanism just to follow the track. A DVD-ROM drive must add in special reader circuitry to handle the data coding, different block architecture (ROMs use blocks of 16 sectors), different servos for land/groove structure, etc. DVD-RAM is endorsed by the DVD Forum, so is the "official" format.
DVD-RW is also endorsed by the DVD Forum, but for video use. Its intended application for reliable use is to not put data in the first block where you first start writing (it becomes your run-in). The "link point" where writing begins and ends occurs about 1.5 sectors into the 16 sector block. This means that the first 1.5 sectors, while readable, have unrelated data to what you just recorded! Also, some amount of the beginning of what you did write will be unreadable because the data clock needs to be recovered, and the words synchronized to a sync mark. Realistically, the first two sectors will be trashed in any sector that contains a link point. These sectors are recoverable by ECC, but it severely reduces the amount of recovery that can be done on your real data!
DVD-RW uses a shallow, low frequency, wobbled groove with some high frequency "ticks" (occurring at a low frequency) to gain some positional accuracy. These ticks are extremely susceptible to dirt, etc.
Overall, DVD-RW is best used as a re-usable DVD-R.
DVD+RW uses a shallow wobbled groove. However, this wobble is a continuous high frequency, and uses phase modulation to contain address information. The link point is a few bytes from the end of the sector, meaning that only a few bytes are sacrificed to the ECC gods (instead of 4K in the case of DVD-RW), and sufficient data exists to act as the run-in for the newly written sector.
The logical layout of DVD+RW is identical to the logical layout of DVD-ROMs. Any drive that conforms to the DVD-ROM standards will read a DVD+RW disc. Unfortunately, some manufacturers took shortcuts (like assuming a low reflectivity disc is a dual layer disc, rather than reading the proper parameter from the media).
The design characteristics of DVD+RW are such that it works well for randomly written data, and is compatible with DVD-ROM drives.
In short, DVD-RAM only works if the reader was deliberately designed to read it. DVD-RW is readable by properly designed ROM readers, but is a very fragile format. Finally, DVD+RW is readable in properly designed ROM readers, and has the most robust inherent design.Standards that describe these DVD formats are available from ECMA [www.ecma.ch].
Disclaimer: I work for HP, and used to work in their DVD group. Opinions expressed here are mine, not HPs.
Re:Writable DVD - Slightly OT (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Writable DVD - Slightly OT (Score:1)
Re:Writable DVD - Slightly OT (Score:2)
At least something containing a number is pronouncable, includes a sequence, and indicates an order to how the formats were developed and released.
Protocol for DVD-R drives (Score:2)
loud drives (Score:1)
dvd (Score:1, Informative)
I wouldn't recommend any proprietary storageFormat (Score:2, Insightful)
The ownership of the dvd format may decide to hold our data hostage! I won't buy a dvd recorder until I can use it with 100%gnu/linux.
Good site for DVD player compatibility (Score:3, Informative)
vcdhelp.com [vcdhelp.com]
which is generally for VCD's, which will only play on "compatible" dvd players.
However, they have lots of background information, including a huge section [vcdhelp.com] on DVD players with compatibility information - showing which will play DVD-R, DVD-RW and DVD+RW. Also sections on all kinds of other issues. I believe they have the domain dvdhelp.com, but there's not much to it.
They also have a huge, well documented and well organized Links [vcdhelp.com] section to other information.
Re:Good site for DVD player compatibility (Score:3, Interesting)
Their compatibility lists are here:
Lifeclips Compatible DVD Players [lifeclips.com]
YesVideo Compatible DVD Players [yesvideo.com]
As far as I know, these companies use standard PC-based DVD burners, but I could be mistaken.
When Plextor starts selling DVD+RW drives... (Score:2)
Fuck DVD (Score:1)
Can a storage format be fascistic? DVD certainly is getting close.
DVD Info (Score:2, Insightful)
Both are great drives. Software with the Panasonic is more versatile, shipping with VOB's INSTANT CD/DVD+ (UDF, VCD, ARCHIVING,BACKUP) vs. Veritos Primo DVD (Prassi).
Basically the differences in the drives are:
Pioneer: DVD-RW:
records DVD-R (Gen'l purpose), DVD-RW (Gen'l purpose), CD-R and CDRW
US software: Sonic MyDVD for DVD authoring, Veritos (Prassi) Primo DVD for CDR(W) and Cyberlink PowerDVD.
European software: VOB only.
Panasonic: DVD-RAM/DVD-R:
Records DVD-R (Gen'l Purpose) and Rewritable DVD-RAM.
Software: Either Sonic DVDit Standard or NEODVD (Mediostream) DVD authorizing software, VOB Instant CD/DVD+, and Cyberlink PowerDVD.
If you need to record CDs, or make VCDs, then the Pioneer DVR-A03 is the one to get, no question.
If you need system backup, serious video editing, network backup, or if archiving is a priority, then the Panasonic LF-D311 wins. DVD-RAM is a true rewritable media and has built in error correction that DVD-R(W) can't match.
Best prices I've seen are $618 for the DVR-A03 and $534 for the LF-D311 (both with free shipping). http://www.esbuy.com/dvdram2.html
(found a 10 pack of DVD-R media there for $60!)
Both drives are quiet, and are multi-read compliant (exception: The Pioneer does NOT read DVD-RAM)
DAE is surperb for either drive.
I'm using both of them and can't find any bad habits about either. If the Panasonic did CDR it would be perfect (have to wait 'till January, I guess).
I've tried the resulting DVDs made from both the Pioneer and Panasonic machines on Sony (including PS2), Panasonic, Pioneer, and Toshiba DVD home players and all work great with the exception of DVD-RW media, not all players will recognize DVD-RW.
The DVD+RW from HP and Sony probably won't be available on the market for another 2-4 months.
Panasonic will be releasing a "Super Drive" in January that does DVD-R, DVD-RAM and CDR(W).
Pioneer is releasing a table top model in the Fall, the PRV-9000.
It should be noted, if you have a Mac, your only real choice is the Pioneer DVR-A03 with Roxio's Toast Titanium. At this time, only the DVD-RAM side is supported by the MAC (Software Architech SAI DVD-TUNEup has unreleased beta drivers for the DVD-R side).
I'm a Monster, baby, Creature with the Atom Brain. (Score:4, Funny)
Horrible aren't we? I also took a shower this morning and just now went and made some iced tea.
--
Evan
Re:I'm a Monster, baby, Creature with the Atom Bra (Score:1)
Not to mention the illegal recording of three copyrighted TV channels YESTERDAY. (for shame!)
jesus christ... (Score:1)
- A.P.
Re:You Monsters! (Score:3, Insightful)
In a way slashdot is providing a service to the american public and the rest of the world by simply carrying on with what they do. Do not say this is trivial, do not say this is monstorous, do however say that this is the right thing for them to be doing. By doing this we are helping to fight off the evil that tried to demoralize and destroy the american people. Sometimes the most appropriate action is to not take action at all, to instead just go about your business. I think they are doing a good job at what they are supposed to do. Also, remember that this site doesn't just cater to the Americans, that it caters to the rest of the world as well, and i seriously doubt that they want to hear as much about the death and destruction as we will be hearing in the next couple days. Also, what you should be doing is saying prayers, giving blood, and donating money if you that that will help, complaining things online does nothing. Bitching will get you nowhere, only actions will.
Re:See me (Score:1)
Re:STFU you fucking Jew (Score:1)
Re:Buy a mac (Score:1)
I have 4 case fans just for the sake of it as well as a DVD(rom) and CD-RW drive and I say who cares if your box sounds like a small air-conditioner.