Time Warner DVR box vs. TiVo?

pfunk asks: "Time Warner Cable in Cincinnati is now offering an all-in-one Digital Video Recorder/Cable Box. I have a TiVo and basic cable now, but as I ponder an upgrade to digital cable and premium channels, I wonder if an integrated box might be a better choice? I haven't found out anything about pricing yet, but I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with Time Warner's new box? Any direct comparison to TiVo features would be a plus."

Analog Tuner

[MBCook]

Well I'll say one thing for the box, they seem to have the tuners correct. The "technical details" box on the main page says that it contains 2 digitial tuners and an analog tuner. I think this is a step in the right direction.

I don't have Time Warner (I have Com-crap) and their digitial cable is a joke, so I wouldn't be able to buy one no matter what. That said, I've been looking into TiVos (DirecTiVos to be specific). I really like the dual tuner option (I've got PIP on my TV now (it has two tuners) and

Re:Analog Tuner

[zsmooth]

DirecTivo probably has 2 tuners because it doesn't need an MPEG encoding chip. Adding another tuner to a standalone means adding another encoder, which adds to the cost of the box. Of course, I'd love it, but that's the commonly held justification for not having it.

At the HDTivo demo at CES, the technician told use that the HDTivos will most likely include multiple tuners, but it hadn't been decided in what configuration (it will have at least 1 ATSC and 1 analog, but more than that - who knows?)

Re:Analog Tuner

[RevRagnarok]

I'd love to see standard TiVos contain multiple tuners.

Just today I got the 'news you can use' newsletter from TiVo - and they say in no uncertain terms in the Q&A section that there will never be a multi-tuner analog TiVo. Cannot blame them, a majority of the hardware is the MPEG encoding. The DirecTiVo is just dumping the D-TV signal to the hard drive with no encoding needed.

They site the reason being that analog TV going bye-bye in place of HDTV and digital cable. I use my IR blaster with my Com-c

Re:Analog Tuner

[RobTerrell]

The DirecTivo doesn't have an MPEG compressor. It records streams right off the satellite feed. It would be a more expensive unit with all the DirecTV crap AND an analog tuner. Also, the service is from DirecTV, not Tivo, so if they go under, your combo box is useless. (Well, not totally, you can probably rip the drives out and use them for something.)

Plus, you really think that Murdoch bought Directv for $6.6B [go.com] last week just to watch it wither and die?

Your arguments against buying it don't hold water. Go

My quick comparison

[Jahf]

It most likely is missing alot of the TiVo goodness like season passes. However, it also has 2 things that TiVo is missing ...

Playing live TV in a smaller window in the guide ... handy to be able to actually see what's going on instead of the overlay method TiVo uses.

Picture-in-Picture ... you can do this if your tv supports it with a TiVo, but it's the -tv- that does it, meaning folks who use DirecTV combo units (like me) can't do that. Yes, you can record 2 streams at once on the combo TiVo, but not view 2 at once.

Overall, I think I'm much happier with my TiVo, I live for season passes and wishlists, but I can see where this box might make some people (like sports nuts) happier in some ways.

TiVo

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

The Time Warner box, as I understand it, is a piece of garbage.

It does not offer the advanced scheduling capabilities of a TiVo, nor does it offer the advanced search capabilities.

I would recommend sticking with TiVo and using an IR blaster to get Digital Cable.

Better yet altogether, switch to DirecTV. For $40 per month, I get 140 channels, including my local channels. To get those same channels with Time Warner would likely be $55.

Switch to DirecTV/TiVo. My transition from stand-alone to DirecTV/TiVo w

Re:TiVo

[softweyr]

...switch to DirecTV. For $40 per month, I get 140 channels, including my local channels. To get those same channels with Time Warner would likely be $55.

Sorry, doesn't add up. I get (roughly) the same 140 channels, including all 9 local channels (gotta love SoCal), plus internet access at 2.5 mbps (yeah, almost double T-1) for $77. And I can't see the 110 W. satellite slot from my apartment, so I couldn't bring over my much-missed DiSH, which has better geek programming than DirecTV.

Re:TiVo

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

TWC varies its prices greatly based on geographic region.

I actually live in a Comcast (former AT&T) area. My 2.5M (320K upstream) cable internet is $45/month; digital cable starts at $49 (but you don't get any digital channels - the only benefit is the pay per view and the program guide).

If you have a good deal on cable, stick with it. I wish cable were that cheap here, too.

BTW: I probably have more shopping channels ;)
DirecTV carries more than ten of them... lol.

Better Feature Comparison

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Season Pass (record every episode of a show, even if it moves)

TiVo = Yes
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes
TWC Box = No

Suggustions (programs you may like - like it or hate it)

TiVo = Yes (optional)
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes (optional)
TWC Box = No

Advanced conflict managment (prioritize season passes or equiv.)

TiVo = Yes
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes
TWC Box = No

Two tuners (record two programs at once/record a program while watching a 2nd live program)

TiVo = No
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes
TWC Box = No

Picture-In Picture

TiVo = No
DirecTV/Tivo = No
TWC Box = No

Guide Style

TiVo = Two column, translucent
DirecTV/TiVo = Two column or grid, translucent
TWC Box = Grid, picture in corner

Delete Date/Time (tells you when programs will be deleted to make space)

TiVo = Yes
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes
TWC Box = No

God-Awful Remote

TiVo = No
DirecTV/TiVo = No
TWC Box = Yes

Half-Decent User Interface

TiVo = Yes
DirecTV/TiVo = Yes
TWC Box = No

Re:Better Feature Comparison

[zsmooth]

To be fair, from the demo, it looks like the TWC box does include 2 tuners and PIP. Not that that makes it as good as a Tivo, but still...

Re:Better Feature Comparison

[markhb]

I have a TW PVR, and you got a couple of points wrong:

Season Pass (record every episode of a show, even if it moves)
TWC Box = Sort of. It can record by show title (tip: don't ever tell it to record All Episodes of "Trading Spaces"), but I've witnessed some weird behavior that makes me think they have some bugs that haven't been worked out yet.

Two tuners (record two programs at once/record a program while watching a 2nd live program)
TWC Box = Yes (plus, I *think* you can watch a 3rd program while recording 2 others, without the live-rewind capabilities, but I am not sure);

Picture-In Picture
TWC Box = Yes

Delete Date/Time
TWC Box = Yes, although I'm not sure if this uses a UI similar to TiVo, since I haven't used TiVo. Select a recorded program from the list, hit "Info", read the "Save until" datum.

God-Awful Remote, Half-Decent User Interface:
TWC Box = WFM, YMMV.

--
Remainder of my .sig: be the majority of voters.

slight correction

[mckwant]

I've got one, too, and I think you meant to say that you can watch a TAPED program while recording two others. Obviously, without three tuners, you can't watch three live feeds at once.

Interesting article

[nitetide]

http://www.ochsenhirt.com/archives/000057.html of particular interest "Obviously, there's no way to skip ads (the article seems to imply there's no way to fast-forward at all), and the system inserts new commercials when pausing or rewinding. "

Go with the verb

[L. VeGas]

"I Tivo'd the Soprano's last night."

or...

"I'm going to all-in-one-Digital-Video-Recorder/Cable-Box the Soprano's tonight."

no contest

I've got the DVR

[Mandomania]

And it's pretty sweet. It's got the basic Tivo feature-set (pause live-tv, record shows, etc.), but it's got it's own warts.

• No commercial skip. I've got to manually fast-forward through each commercial. Not too big of a deal, but it would be nice to skip ahead in 30 sec. intervals.
• No low-level Record All access. Whenever I want to record All Episodes of a particular shows, I have problems. Especially when recording kids shows. These shows often show the same episodes on different channels (Nick, Nick2, etc.) on the same day. There's no way to record all Blues Clues episodes on PBS. You either record one episode or All episodes on ALL Channels.
• Periodic playback problems. Sometimes there are skips and jumps in the playback. Once it was so bad that it sent the machine into a downward spiral that caused it to reboot over and over for about 4 hours. I called Time Warner and was about to go get a new one when the box just started behaving.
• Periodic recording problems. Sometimes, the box just gets confused. One time I caught it trying to record The View for no good reason. Not that there's a legitimate reason to watch The View, but still.
• Small hard drive. We keep running out of room on the damn thing. I don't really know how much room it has, but it seems to have exactly one hour LESS than we need.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Tivo, so I don't know how these things compare directly. I got the DVR because I wanted a Tivo but couldn't justify the initial cost. I'm sure that the Tivo is a better machine than the DVR, but it sure was easier to pay $15/mo. rather than $300 (plus subscription).

--
Mando

Since no one is asking...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

What PVR is TW using?

It's most certainly not a "Time Warner" box. Usually, TW uses SciAtl stuff in markets it has owned for awhile, which means you're using the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 series (8600?).

If anyone wants to share some data, please check out my cablebox site [24.125.76.224]. In particular, check out the compatibility database, and add whatever entries you can personally confirm.

Thanks.

TW DVR

[DeLabarre]

TWC has been test marketing these here in Rochester, and I have had one for six months. Disclaimer: I've never had a TiVo or ReplayTV or any other DVR but this one.

Good: Recording selection is integrated into the box's program guide. I can schedule recordings as far in the future as the cable guide will let me scroll. Records up to two programs simultaneously, while playing back a third. Can record any of the analog or digital cable channels. Can FF through commercials during playback. S-Video, stereo out has decent signal quality (also puts out composite and modulated signals).

Bad: No SkipAhead button for commercial skips (you have to FF through them). Response to remote can be slow -- sometimes up to 4-5 seconds delay while it churns. Occasionally drops frames or loses frame integrity on recordings. Box is rented rather than purchased, so I pay extra $$$ every month on the cable bill for the service.

So-so: Unit is somewhat noisy -- I can hear it whirring and humming even when "off" -- non-DVR digital cable box is silent. No way to schedule recordings over the network from a remote location. No component video out.

In general, I like it a lot and use the DVR features all the time now. I wish it was quieter and had better response time, but I can live with it.

Shamelessly ripped from the Newgroups...

[burnsy]

Here is the best review of the SA 8000 on the web...

Sci Atlanta Explorer 8000: Not Ready for Primetime

Cable companies have been concerned for sometime about the growing level of
competition they face from small satellite dish providers DirecTV and DISH.
These national competitors have begun incorporating personal digital video
recording technology into some of their receivers, allowing customers to
digitally record, pause, and review programming. Some cable subscribers
have clamored for this type of feature as well and have invested in Tivo and
Replay units to accomplish this.

Now, cable operators are primed to respond to customer requests with the
introduction of digital video recorder cable boxes like the newly released
Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000. Equipped with a hard drive and all the
technology necessary to receive digital and on demand programming, the
Explorer 8000 attempts to deliver a one-box solution to existing cable
subscribers contemplating a switch to satellite or investing in a standalone
Tivo or Replay unit.

Larger than most cable boxes, the Explorer barely squeezes into equipment
stacks, and like some of its predecessors, it's best placed atop other
equipment, because it generates considerable heat.

The 8000 series can be custom configured by cable operators with different
size hard drives. Time Warner of Rochester, NY (one of Time Warner's test
markets) deployed Explorer 8000's with the Maxtor 4D080H4, a value line 80
gig 5400rpm hard drive, capable of storing from 30-40 hours of programming,
depending on whether the recorded channel was on an analog or digital tier.
The unit makes almost no noise.

The 8000 integrates the digital video recorder with the critically-panned
Scientific Atlanta standard interactive program guide (the one that starts
with programming lists two hours in the future) and assigns a pseudo-channel
on the digital tier for viewers to view and access their recorded
programming. Users can also manually configure recording times for the
unit.

The box is targeted to customers who want the convenience of digital video
recording without upfront equipment costs. The box is provided on a
month-by-month rental basis. In the Rochester test market, the rate is
$9.95 per month in addition to the standard monthly $5.60 digital equipment
fee (and a .35 cent per month fee for the remote control). Time Warner
points out that competitors like Tivo make you purchase the equipment and
still pay a fee of up to $9.95 per month for the program guide (which is
also a way for these companies to recoup added costs).

Among the major benefits of the Explorer 8000 is its graceful integration
with digital cable service. Recording most cable programming that requires
a cable box with external equipment (a VCR or DVR) requires consumers to
jump through hoops in setting up the equipment to interact properly and keep
their fingers crossed. Since the Explorer 8000 is a one box solution, no
extra steps are required to configure the box.

Also, the Explorer 8000 contains two tuners capable of recording two cable
channels at the same time, which is unique in the field of current
generation recorders. It incorporates a software-based picture-in-picture
feature so that users can review programming on two channels even if their
television did not come with this feature (or P-in-P became irrelevent with
the addition of a cable box that outputted all programming on a single
channel).

Programming the Explorer 8000 is generally done by accessing the standard
Scientific Atlanta-provided program guide. Users can scan for programming
for up to seven days in advance by channel, program theme, date, time or
title. Simply highlight the desired program, hit a key and the 8000 will
bring up a menu asking if you want to record this program once or each time
it airs and how long you

Re:Shamelessly ripped from the Newgroups...

[burnsy]

And here is the update. Kudos to Phillip Dampier...

A Brief Update on Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000

This is an update to a review of the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 PVR
box now available in many areas from your local cable company. The original
review can be found at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=KQHh9.2 7 9170% 24vg.48306613%40twister.ny
roc.rr.com&oe=UTF-8&ou tput=gplain . Please be aware I now consider the original review OUT OF DATE and you should rely on this update when
considerin

Re:Shamelessly ripped from the Newgroups...

[/dev/trash]

"No indication of disk space used or remaining space available"

Current Status: Current design of the box does not allow for this feature.

Try df -h > spaceleft.txt && cat spaceleft.txt > stdout

IMHO, the overriding consideration ...

[mr_death]

... is that Tivo is an independent company, while AOL/TimeWarner/CNN/etc is a conglomerate. Some of the companies in that conglomerate produce content, so I worry about an onerous Digital Rights Management regime (either now or in the future) put in the TimeWarner box at the behest of the movie companies (HBO, New Line Cinema, Turner, etc.)

Do you really want their idea of "fair use" enforced upon you?

don't do it

[tongue]

i have the twc box. it sucks. the only real advantage is not having to buy it in the first place--its monthly service charge is cheaper than tivo's IF you already have digital cable. if not, you have to upgrade and the effective price difference ups to 20 bucks or so.

there are all kinds of technical problems with the twc box--it crashes on me regularly, usually in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter of a close football game. it takes at least three or four minutes to come back up once it does th

Pricing

[sysadmn]

In Cinci, it looks like pricing will be a one-time fee of $19.95 for training (?) and $9.95 if you already have digital cable.

Re:Pricing

[MrKeith]

The $19.95 fee is for instalation. You can trade in your box at one of their offices, hook it up yourself and not pay this fee... Took me 20 minutes to intergrate it with my Surround Sound, VCR and DVD...

My Experience

[p24t]

Okay, when TW first came out with the DVR in Austin, I was itching to get one. So I did. I felt it was the only thing that would really make Digital Cable worth getting. I've had it a few months now, and I've got my own opinions. Lets start with good points first.

Its easy. Instead of having multiple devices, its my cable box, and my DVR all in one. I had digital cable before (or at least my old roomie did) so the remote is very similar, as is the interface. I already knew how to use it for the most

TiVo, uber alles

[mckwant]

I just reread this, and realized I should state that, despite appearances, I do not work for or have stock in TiVo.

We have a TW box and two TiVos. In our experience, the TW box is vastly inferior. The TW box we have (our second, after the first one blew up) has all of the following useful feaures:

• reboots spontaneously, even while we're watching a program. This has gotten better of late, but it still happens.
• mysteriously turns itself off at random times (like Wednesday afternoon), and doesn't come bac