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Media

Putting the TV Broadcast Spectrum to Better Use? 772

KoshClassic asks: "Recently, on the NPR show All Things Considered, an interview was broadcast with Thomas Hazlett, formerly the chief economist of the FCC. Although short on details, Mr. Hazlett raises the point that, with the high penetration rate of cable / satellite TV into American homes, broadcasting television over the air has (or soon will) become superfulous and that this portion of the radio spectrum could be better utilized for other purposes. What do Slashdot readers think of this idea and, for those who agree, what alternative uses of the broadcast spectrum would you like to see?"
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Putting the TV Broadcast Spectrum to Better Use?

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    how about using the frequency for handheld TV or is this just killing a gadget that has been useful for fishermen,sportsfans,campers for 30years ?
    • It is dead eventually, current FCC rules dictate that the current broadcast spectrum goes back to the FCC for re-use after HDTV is officially the standard (2006 or a certain % penetration, probably 2010+ in reality) this is just talk about accelerating the deprecation to not wait for HDTV.
      • I have always thought the "turn off" date was total bullshit. Wait until Bubba finds out his TV gets turned off by the government next month, unless he buys a new multi hundred dollar box.

        Congessional pages will be falling out of laps all over D.C.
    • I wonder if we could use TVs and VCRs as packet sniffers if the spectrum gets converted to communications (al la cell phone) use... I would hardly call that dead :)
  • Rabbit Ears (Score:5, Funny)

    by The_Rippa ( 181699 ) * on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:25PM (#6134278)
    But I still use rabbit ears, you insensitive clod!
    • by sogoodsofarsowhat ( 662830 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:27PM (#6134296)
      Your the one thats being insensative.... RABBIT KILLER :P
      • Re:Rabbit Ears (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:33PM (#6134387)
        Trying for funny I know, but I came from a rural town with a population of less than 200 and an average income of less than the poverty level. Cable will never come to the town, and most folks won't be able to afford satelite.
        • Re:Rabbit Ears (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Le Marteau ( 206396 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:38PM (#6134449) Journal
          Don't worry. I'm sure the government will realize that, and put a tax on cable bills, like they tax phone bills, to subsidize service to remote areas.
          • Everybody's cable bill is already padded by the $8 or so that your local cable council demanded in order to give the monopoly to your provider.

            Where does that money go? Crappy public outreach programs, etc. I'm all for targetted government programs, but this whole recursive reacharound BS is disgusting.
            • Re:Rabbit Ears (Score:3, Insightful)

              "Crappy public outreach programs" what are those? like aids awareness, condom distribution, and anti-domestic abuse programs?

        • Re:Rabbit Ears (Score:4, Informative)

          by marcop ( 205587 ) <marcop.slashdot@org> on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:30PM (#6135011) Homepage
          I live just 1/2 mile to the end of the cable line. Time Warner keeps saying that any time now they will run cable to my house. Therefore I get TV from satellite. However, I must get local channels over the air because of copyright violations between the local channel affiliates that are in the area and the ones that are broadcast over satellite.
    • Re:Rabbit Ears (Score:3, Interesting)

      by localghost ( 659616 )
      Rabbit ears are a waste of money. Just take a ~10 meter long wire, run it in a circle around the room, and stick it in the hole in the coax jack. I'm watching the simpsons on one of those right now.
  • by Vengeance ( 46019 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:25PM (#6134279)
    Cut broadcast radio, too! Let's trick those darned aliens monitoring us into thinking we blew each other up or something.
  • by hecky ( 445344 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:26PM (#6134286)
    Sell it all to ClearChannel.
    • Re:Obviously... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:46PM (#6134545) Homepage Journal
      Sell it all to ClearChannel

      Maybe, but if the FCC dude is right about the future of TV program distribution, ClearChannel won't want it. It might be great if some goes to Hams and other bits to commercial radio and unlicensed (low-power) data transmission (upper UHF freqs).

      There are a couple of problems with it his idea/prediction, the most important is the shear momentum of the number of TV broadcasters and receivers using this part of the spectrum. Sure, over time the broadcasters could stop transmitting and broadcast only via cable, but that will take some time... and leave rural viewers out in the cold.

      Second, with today's technology and demands for data transmission, there are some limitations to this part of the RF spectrum that might make it unattractive. With the longer wavelength (especially VHF as compared to new cell/mobile phones, 802.11x, etc in the GHz range), efficient transmitter/receiver antennae would probably be too large for most modern applications. Granted, in the upper UHF region, it gets better, but modern, high bandwidth data transmit/receive devices aren't using 1GHz and up just because of frequency allocation... there's beau-coup bandwidth to be had up there, without a lot of the terrestrial source interference issues that bug over-the-air TV viewing.

    • by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @05:04PM (#6135360) Homepage
      Sell it all to ClearChannel.
      Too late. WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY too late.

      --
  • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:26PM (#6134291) Homepage Journal

    Give it back to the public for them to use as they see fit. I think The Goatse.cx Channel would get quite a following, at least it's not Trading Spaces.
    • by Rhinobird ( 151521 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:35PM (#6134405) Homepage
      You WANT a goatse.cx channel? I've only seen the picture briefly, like 2 years ago, and I've been scarred for life...sniff sniff...every time someone makes faces in a window, I start to gag. Any time someone mentions goats, I get a cold shiver down my spine. I've had to stop eating middle eastern food.
  • Who cares?!? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Twilight1 ( 17879 ) <pda@procyon.com> on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:27PM (#6134299)

    What's the point? If anything useful attempts to use this spectrum, the FCC will simply sign it over to the corporations.

    - Twilight1

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:28PM (#6134303)
    I think the airwaves are still good for HD content (cable company here doesn't throw any our way). Over the air hdtv is still a reason to use the airwaves.

  • by VirtualUK ( 121855 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:28PM (#6134305) Homepage
    what do the people who can't afford cable do then? For quite a lot of people who work on minumum wage/on welfare, etc., the minimum package cost of satellite or cable is still too expensive.
    • Since when did access to television programming become a necessity?
      • by lynx_user_abroad ( 323975 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:15PM (#6134876) Homepage Journal
        Since when did access to television programming become a necessity?

        Access to television programming is clearly not a requirement for any one person. But, at least in a democracy, if access to the broadcast channels is made available to any subset of the populace then access to it for the general populace becomes a necessity for the preservation of democratic principles.

        No doubt the amount of good public discourse on the television today is minimal (and largely there only by FCC mandate). And you may never watch TV (I avoid it whenever I can) but there are large portions of our population who choose to receive all of their information about policy and issues through television programming. It's an important medium; one we can't afford to lose.

        To cut them off merely adds more influence to the entrenched interests.

    • by mattsucks ( 541950 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:35PM (#6134410) Homepage
      Nobody cares about these people, because they can't afford to donate to political campaigns.

      Same issue also applies to people (ie, me) who don't want to pay for cable/satellite. Anybody else think that selling off the public TV spectrum would be a sneaky way for the govt. to create a nice big new revenue stream for the big media providers? Maybe i'm just having a glass-is-half-empty day today....
    • by Rick.C ( 626083 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:40PM (#6134465)
      In response to the replies that said "Get off your butt and get a job," etc.

      What about the 80-year-old widows on fixed incomes whose meager lives revolve around TV?

      • That 80-year old widow should go down to the nearest hospital and volunteer to hold babies in the premie unit. It's much more fulfilling than watching "The Young and the Restless". Really.
    • Equity (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NetSettler ( 460623 ) <kent-slashdot@nhplace.com> on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:02PM (#6134727) Homepage Journal
      what do the people who can't afford cable do then?

      The logical answer would be that we pass a point in society where it's so valuable to those among us (who, incidentally might not be me) who want to "move ahead" that they will pay to bring the others up to speed. People are so stingy, though, I don't see this ever happening.

      For example, when I was a student in Boston years ago, I was told that the Boston subway system operated at a greater loss by paying state employees to collect tokens (at $0.25 back then) than it would if it were free (with no tolltakers to pay), but that taxpayers liked to see money coming out of the riders' pockets and that's why they continued to charge money. I never did find out if this assertion was so, but it had a ring of truth to it.

      Perhaps it's just as well, though.

      Personally, I have a little black & white TV that is battery powered and that I can turn on during power outages (e.g., due to hurricanes) to find out the weather. Is someone going to offer me a replacement--and better yet, buy it for me? Not only would a change be inconvenient for me, but I worry that it will make our society fragile against catastrophe.

      Although we can make one big all-in-one digital information device, I'm not sure that it's wise to. I like the idea of separated systems so that if one breaks down, another might continue to work so I can find out what's going on...
    • However I agree that some people still use aentenas to get their signals, the vast majority of the wavelengths available to tv stations to broadcast at are not used. A TV can pickup at most 2-3 signals in a metropolitan area. This leaves an enormous number of channels available for other purposes. Re-organizing does not necessarily mean that the existing broadcasters would be cut, but rather they'd be consolidated to a more confined wavelength.
    • The FCC is charged with managing the spectrum "in the public interest." How is a proposal like this in the public interest? Remove access to the medium for a large segment of the population just because they are not wealthy enough? The beneficiaries of such an action would most certainly not be the general public, but rather the cable/satellite companies and whoever buys up the TV segment of the spectrum.

      Ideas like this one and the recent vote on station ownership consolidation clearly shows that the FC
    • by greenrom ( 576281 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:21PM (#6134922)
      But most of the spectrum alloted for TV is still unused. Since most people do have cable or satellite, there isn't much incentive for corporations to invest the $$ to build a bunch of new broadcast towers for more over-the-air TV channels. If anything, the number of over-the-air channels will probably decrease, not increase. Because of the FCC's over-allotment, most of the UHF spectrum, and in most markets, much of the VHF spectrum is just going to waste. Why not compress the alloted spectrum into a few channels and free up the rest for other uses? Stations might have to move to different channels, but you'd still have your free TV.
  • by rgoer ( 521471 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:29PM (#6134315)
    ...but I wouldn't mind "broadcast" 802.x wireless internet service. Would this even be possible, though?
  • How about... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:29PM (#6134320) Homepage Journal
    keeping VHF for the time being and killing off UHF? I can still see VHF TV being handy for EBS (or whatever they are calling it now) -- not to mention in many urban areas, broadcast TV works fine and is a good backup when cable TV is out and/or for portable TVs (Sony Watchman).

    Could be fun to open UHF to the public for amature low power broadcasts for a while, too.

    • I thought that was already the deal: as soon as the brodcasters all transfer over to HDTV then they are going to drop UHF as unnessisary (as they can fit more channels in the same space with HDTV since it is designed for better equipment.)
  • VOD (Score:2, Interesting)

    The bandwidth for TV stations when used digitally is something like 18MB/bs (can't exactly remember). You could use that bandwidth to stream movies/music to receivers. I was on a project that was doing just that, but we got axed. The infrastructure needed for VOD over TV isn't as great as for cable or Internet.
  • Bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:29PM (#6134327) Homepage Journal
    This would be fine for a good percentage of Americans, but it would cut off access to many who can't afford the monthly cost of cable or sattelite.

    What they might want to do is to reduce the bandwidth dedicate to TV by reducing the number of UHF channels. Outside the larger markets, they could probably eliminate UHF altogether.

    Of course, that would limit the potential growth of broadcast TV, further supporting the existing large players by making new competition more difficult.

    If they want to eliminate broadcast TV altogether, then they need to work out a deal where cable and sattelite companies give free access to a dozen or so local channels.
    • by bbk ( 33798 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:37PM (#6134425) Homepage
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but europe is transitioning to digital TV as well, but when a station wants to broadcast in a DTV format, it has to eventually give up the VHF frequency it was using for a UHF one. This way, once completed, the entire VHF band will be free.
    • Re:Bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)

      by yintercept ( 517362 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:44PM (#6134515) Homepage Journal
      The group that gets hit the hardest are those that just don't watch that much TV. The cost of cable is prohibitive when you watch only an hour or so a month

      As for the uneducated lazy asses on welfare who watch 500 or so hours of TV a month...they have cable. I suspect that the group that is least likely to have cable is the young professional working 80 hours a week, or students struggling to pay tuition, and who watch only a few hours a month.

      Go down to the local trail park...yep...most have a satellite dish pointed to the great teet in the sky.
    • by raygundan ( 16760 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:52PM (#6135254) Homepage
      I heard the interview on NPR the other day-- the guy wasn't talking about getting rid of all TV spectrum. The simple fact is that there are 60-odd TV channels reserved, but only a handful are being used even in the largest markets.

      We can keep all the channels we've got, reserve some for future growth, and STILL reclaim 30 TV channels worth of bandwidth to use for anything from wireless internet to community radio, or whatever else you can think of.

      Wouldn't it be better to do SOMETHING with all that bandwidth (and it *is* a ton) than just let dozens of TV channel-sized chunks of our airwaves sit unused? The guy's point is that we're just not using much of it, and that people who want more channels aren't clamoring for more OTA channels, they're getting cable. So why not use the unused chunk for something else?

  • I am a little confused as to whether the suggestion is to eliminate broadcast TV all together, or just make better use of the space. Since things mave moved away from broadcast TV, it doesn't need all the space it is using anymore, so maybe he is just talking about condensing it.

    I agree with those of you who think eliminating it is a bad idea for now. Uses of broadcast TV are still around (portable devices, local stations, pbs/etc). Broadcast TV could also come in handy in the case of an emergency...
  • "Basic Cable" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TrevorB ( 57780 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:30PM (#6134333) Homepage
    I think I'd agree to this if it were federally mandated that "Basic Cable" be 100% free. Including all the wiring to your house. Wires, wireless, what's the difference?

    Good luck watching TV portably too... No more sports+BBQ in the back yard.

    • We need TV! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Wrexs0ul ( 515885 )
      Exactly. One of the reasons for broadcast TV in Canada is CBC, a government-backed broadcasting station that makes an attempt at keeping the people informed about public events. One of our duties in a democratic society is to keep informed, while there's obviously other means available this one is free less the initial cost of television.

      -Matt
    • by Kakurenbo Shogun ( 64436 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:31PM (#6135016) Homepage
      While I'm all for getting free basic cable, I DON'T want that mandated.

      If, whenever somebody builds a house (perhaps a long way away from any existing cable), the cable company has to run new cable lines out to them for free, the money to pay for that is going to have to come from SOMEWHERE. The cable companies aren't just going to say "oh, darn. more costs" and do it themselves. They're going to lobby for government subsidies.

      And the government isn't just going to print more money to pay for it, they're going to raise taxes or cut programs. ...well, maybe they will just print money, but that wouldn't be much different from raising taxes to pay for it since it would fuel inflation.

      On the other hand, if they can be convinced to cut something that never should have been funded anyway, cutting programs wouldn't be so bad (except that they'd just be cutting one bad program to fund another one). But that's a moot point, because the cuts would come from things that are already underfunded like education.

      In short, I think the broadcast spectrum should be left alone.
  • carrier pigeons of course! the best way to utilize the air waves without wasting those precious radio waves.
  • by netruner ( 588721 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:30PM (#6134338)
    Something else to consider, since so many /.'ers are into the whole privacy thing: Brodcast signals are the only way you can watch TV without someone somewhere keeping track of what you watch.

    Just some food for thought.
  • Another ISM chunk (Score:3, Insightful)

    by afidel ( 530433 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:31PM (#6134347)
    The most ubiqutous and cheapest wireless gear has been for the unliscensed ISM bands. The large chunk of bandwidth that the tv spectrum uses would allow all sorts of high speed devices to coexist because there could be a number of non-overlapping yet wide channels.
  • Like the 2.4Ghz ISM band for example. Keep the power levels low enough that it doesn't turn into one big interference mess, but high enough that you can actually cover some distance with it.
  • keep it for people who still have rabbit ears for their tv sets. Some people want to watch tv, but don't want to shell out 40 bucks a month for cable. I know I'm happy if I can watch The Amazing Race, and Fox from 7-9pm on Sundays.

    I ended up watching far more tv shows per week when I had cable, just because I paid for it and felt I had to get my money's worth.
  • LPVHF and LPUHF similar to LPFM! I know the costs are going to keep a lot more people out, but I think it could be used for community broadcasting with ranges similar to that of LPFM (around a few miles radius). People could start hundreds of little TV stations all over the place as a vehicle for communicating to the people in their neighborhood.

    How expensive would it be to setup a TV station that can be viewed at 5 miles?
  • by Sean80 ( 567340 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:32PM (#6134358)
    I wonder what 'superfluous' really means to the heads of giant media corporations though. Will users in rural areas be forgotten, even though they haven't got cable or satellite service, and aren't likely to get it?

    I get the feeling that they should leave the spectrum in place for many years to come so that these people will always have access to the major stations. In Australia (I'm not sure if it's the same in the US), they forced the telephone company to service rural areas, because otherwise they simply aren't profitable.

    As always, don't forget to remember the little guy.


  • Let's establish a new broadcast band where low power non-profit FM community stations are allowed to broadcast.

    Return radio to the people.
  • Ultimate NPR (Score:2, Interesting)

    by idiotfromia ( 657688 )
    Load the airwaves with about 100 more NPR stations. I can't get enough of it.
  • I think options should be considered in this order: First, Open free communications, next licensed communications sevices, next broadcast.

    If we decide to make it an open communication services with only power restrictions, then it would be much like the current open bands and give more opurtunity for different products to be created. If we were to license certain corporations or individuals to have exclusive use of the bands they should provide a unique service such as unviversal data communications at a
  • Negroponte of the Media lab said 10 years ago the we got it all wrong. Everything that is now using Airwaves will be ground and conversely. I think he was right.

    Using airwaves for somethng that is stationary seems to be a waste and an annomaly.

  • Funny this gets posted today. In a recent entry [dugnet.com] in my blog I made mention of the fact that I got an amplified UHF/VHF antenna. I wasn't real sure what I could pickup, but I was hoping on fox and nbc.

    I found out from Tv Radio World .com [tvradioworld.com] that there really isn't any part of UHF in my area that's underused. Every other channel is a fox, tbn, 3abn, abc, cbs, nbc, upn, wb channel. Granted some don't come in crystal clear, but there are quite a few channels (at least 9) that come in better than some crap ca

  • I seem to remember hearing a while ago that the FCC was trying to make HDTV support mandatory in a few years... could this be out with the old, in with the new?
  • I'm sure (rant) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:35PM (#6134404) Homepage
    I'm sure that "homeland america" will be reeeal okay with that. You know, those places where radio signals travel a decent distance, but no one wants to dig 4000 feet of cable to get to your house. Yeah, almost everyone out there has satellite. However, not everyone wants to pay a monthly fee to watch TV, and more importantly, the middle of nowhere are the areas most likely to want some kind of highly localized tv channel. You think that a satellite provider is going to carry WLCD, Frederick, Oklahoma? No. And *no one* in that part of Oklahoma, practically, has cable. This means if you cut out the broadcast spectrum, this area can no longer have local channels of their own.

    I'm also sure that there will be bad consequences from the fact that using exclusively satellite/cable means that in many area, cable would be *it*. There would be a couple people willing to go with satellite, but satellite has some inherent problems in it and these would likely continue, as they have been, to be a minority.

    These are privately held and privately controlled networks. I don't exactly trust or like the FCC, but at least they have SOME accountability to the public. AOLTW has none.

    Realize that *MANY* areas have a literal monopoly, locally, on cable. Realize that this means we'd be removing the monopoly on who determines who gets a television license out of the hands of the FCC and putting it in the hands of an unaccountable, private, local monopoly. Don't like the fact that AOLTW Cable doesn't carry X Channel You Like? Want to start a public access public service station that at one time the FCC would have greenlighted, but AOLTW cable isn't interested in handing bandwidth to because it's not a money maker and they'd rather go with Animal Planet 2? Get reeeal used to it. And once everyone else gets "used to" this, get very used to any and all complaints being met with "hey, you have choice. if you don't like it you can always move".

    Welcome to the new global Feudalism.
  • by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:41PM (#6134469) Homepage Journal
    The thing that this gentleman forgot to account for was the loss of sales to electronics manufacturers. He's focused on the media companies, which are only a part of the equation. How many portable TVs end up at sporting events, fishing trips, etc.? Though I haven't been able to find hard statistics, Circuit City carries five models [circuitcity.com] and Casio [casio.com] even has a section [casio.com] for portable TVs on the front page of their website. I don't think he understands what a lobbying power the electronics industry is. Without broadcasts, every one of the portables out there would be useless and a revenue stream for manufacturers would dry up. How about anteanna sales and such for companies like Recoton [recoton.com]? I'm sure they would join the fight ageanst any legislation destroying the boradcasts.
  • by cbdavis ( 114685 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:44PM (#6134517)
    24/7 broadcasts of geeks/antiM$people/Slashdotters ranting and raving about the new Great Satan. We could have weekly code compares with ANY *nix, hosted by Leonard Nimoy.
    Hourly updates about the zillion lawsuits spreading throughout the world claiming ownership of linux. The Iraq InfoMinister could interview SCO Veeps and they could all deny or assert whatever seems appropriate. Sundays would have Linus leading us all in prayer that SCO dries up and disappers. Oh, and NO M$ or MSN commercials! I hate rainbow-colored moths!!
  • Not so bad idea... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kr3m3Puff ( 413047 ) * <me@@@kitsonkelly...com> on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:44PM (#6134526) Homepage Journal
    In fact the FCC has already decided sideband usage for DTV over broadcast waves, I am sure there are other unique uses in this band, especially if two way communication were eventually allowed. In fact DTV broadcasters will be able to squeeze a lot into a current "channel". I think I remember reading somewhere that four channels could be compressed into an existing one.

    Truly the slicing and dicing of this spectrum is antiquated. We should be like the British and cut our ties with backwards compatability, like when they moved from B&W to Color.

    What about heavy usage of UWB in that spectrum. I am not sure how far our TV signals travel in a low wattage scenario, but I am sure you could cram a lot into UWB that included this spectrum.

    What about truly interative TV and or features? Maybe high grade digital audio?

    There are 3 spectrums out there, and UHF is way underused. Lets get some more bang for the buck!

  • by intnsred ( 199771 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:45PM (#6134534)
    What I wonder is this: Why can't I watch my local high school or local college's sports teams on TV? Why can't I watch the town meeting/local gov't on TV? (Yes, I know about public access cable, but that isn't available where I live.)

    We have all sorts of TV, but all of it is controlled by large corporations, and all of it is funded by large corporations. It stands to reason that we're going to get biases from those controlling powers in our media.

    The FCC is looking at the picture all wrong. They assume that there's something to watch on TV and that people are satisfied with it.

    I, and most of my friends, are in now way satisfied with TV. I'm in the process of moving and my semi-new (only several-months old) 27" TV won't make the move -- I'm dumping it.

    If the FCC wants to do something, why not open things up for hobbyists, citizen groups, NGOs, and non-multi-national corporations?

    When my local high school and college both have AV departments, it amazes me that I cannot watch their sports games or cultural events on my TV. Instead, I get homogenized crap fed to me by large, out-of-touch media monopolies.

    Am I the only one that feels this way?
  • Whoa (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gone.fishing ( 213219 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:45PM (#6134535) Journal
    This is a terrible idea. Broadcast reaches places where cable doesn't. Sattelite requires too much hardware and is hard to use in obstructed areas. For example, at my cabin (where broadcast works - usually).

    For a very long time the FCC was criticized that it was unresponsive, too deliberative, and an example of a staid, entrenched beauacracy that did very little good for the people. Somewhere that was turned around and now they are overboard in almost exactly the opposite direction! Frankly, I'd prefeer an FCC that took lonmger to deliberate.

    The airwaves require regulation, they are an extremely valuable, very public resource. They are crowded and need to be managed in the public's best interest. The FCC does not exist to make mega-media companies rich, it exists to protect a resource - in much the same way that the National Park Service exists to protect our national parks!

    Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, the mega-media has gained an inordinate amount of influence over their regulators. Somewhere along the line, the FCC started to manage markets more than resources. We the little people are shut out of the process and even when we complain loud and long, we are ignored.

    The FCC has finally become what everyone said it was - an example of a staid, entrenched beauacracy that does very little good for the people.
  • by nsayer ( 86181 ) <`moc.ufk' `ta' `reyasn'> on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:50PM (#6134582) Homepage
    For my money, we're already heading in the right direction with the switch to digital broadcasting, since that change involves moving all of the TV broadcasters up to UHF. The big VHF give-back is, IMHO, the important part. There are 12 channels of VHF TV. At 6 MHz each, that's 72 MHz of space, or more than a quarter of the available VHF spectrum. VHF is prime real estate that could be much better used than for a fixed-point broadcasting service (most TV receivers don't move).

    The larger point, however, is that networks of terrestrial broadcast stations are already obsolete. Back before widespread adoption of cable, it was the only option. But now, having NBC programming come out of a few hundred transmitters scattered across the US is wasteful, given that just about everyone gets TV programming from a satellite (directly or indirectly from their cable company). NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and PBS should each have a single channel on that satellite, just like Comedy Central, and the local broadcasters should use their bandwidth to serve local needs. It's just common sense.
  • Ham radio (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dacarr ( 562277 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:51PM (#6134591) Homepage Journal
    Howsabout we give it back to the radio amateurs?

    73 DE KE6ISF

  • by rockmuelle ( 575982 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @03:57PM (#6134649)

    Seriously, using MPEG-2 and compressed HDTV, the bandwidth currently used by one analog channel can support 24 standard definition or 6 high definition broadcasts.

    Leaving out a few of the extra compressed channels and you have a nice data stream for interactive content.

    Consider a sporting event broadcast this way:

    • One HD feed for the packaged broadcast
    • One HD feed for the wide field shot
    • One HD feed for the current action close up
    • 11 standard def feeds for 11 more cameras
    • One data stream containing all team stats plus real time stats on the game.
    • A TV that lets you manage all feeds and display them in your favorite layout.

    This is currently possible with the bandwidth available for one broadcast channel and would be a very good use of the spectrum.

    One other thought: consolidating on sats/cable could have the nasty side effect of eliminating local programming altogether.

    -Chris

  • Quality (Score:3, Informative)

    by Krieger ( 7750 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:01PM (#6134720) Homepage
    Strangely I'm actually considering going back to broadcast. I'm extremely sick of the "quality" of the digital cable signal I'm getting. It's significant worse visually (artifacting, and the occasionally complete loss of picture when the signal hiccups). Re-allocating the broadcast spectrum is a interesting idea, but it's also a fairly bad idea to get rid of it completely. The new HD specs should let them combine everything into a single HDTV band with several SDTV channels, which might be an acceptable compromise.
  • by Lxy ( 80823 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:05PM (#6134765) Journal
    I can't even begin to count the ways. Portable TVs? No more. My parents live 20 miles from the nearest cable provider, so they'd have to get a dish. Oh wait, they don't have a view to to the south. Oh, and it costs $40/mo for channels you didn't want in the first place.

    How the hell is this a GOOD thing? In ANY way???
  • Ludicrous? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:12PM (#6134842) Journal
    I think the concept of doing away entirely with broadcast television is absurd, or at least, highly premature. While I've had cable for years and couldn't fathom why anyone would _prefer_ broadcast ("wireless") television, I have to say that I know people without cable.

    I don't believe for a second that every home in America has a cable line, and I don't believe that 30 years from now 'wireless' TV will have been phased out. Not only do some people like 'free' TV, but I can't tell you how valuable our small battery-operated TVs have been in horrible weather. Trees have taken down all the wires -- we have no power or phone, and turning on an emergency generator proved that cable TV went down, too. But with a small TV, we were able to get live information on the storm. Will this ever be replaced?

    I agree -- the TV Broadcast Spectrum can be put to better use. But by that, I mean a more spectrum-efficient way. I see no benefit in phasing out broadcast TV, but there are plenty of reasons not to. Plus, as we continue to move toward more spectum-efficient technologies (2-way radios are starting to move to 12.5 kHz bandwidth; spread spectrum use is ever-growing...), I find it difficult to believe that we're ever going to run out of spectrum for radio. I hope that 20 years from now I'll be watching 'spread spectrum' TV or whatnot, but I sincerly hope that I'm not tied to a wire for my TV.

    It's really ironic, too -- everything is moving toward wireless. Need a network? Why not go wireless? Want a new phone? Why not just get a cell phone, or at least a cordless phone? It won't be long before the Internet is as ubiquitous wirelessly as cell phone service. But when it comes to TV, why would people want to move _away_ from the wireless trend?

    Yes, cable TV is hugely popular, and I certainly prefer my cable TV. But the concept of replacing it entirely with cable is about as ingenious as noting that everyone has a cell phone now, and shutting off residential phone lines to all homes, because the wires can be used for something else. Sure, some people might never notice. But there will always be people who still depend on their regular phone.
  • by rocjoe71 ( 545053 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:16PM (#6134883) Homepage
    ...A reduction in electro-magnetic activity would mean I could finally take off my tin-foil hat without fear of you beaming blipverts into my brain anymore...

    Yes, I'm talking to you...


  • Let's be honest, neither you nor I can figure out the all of the wonderful ways that this spectrum might be used and then decide among them what is the best way it should be used.



    Rather than setup a command economy for spectrum, let's put it out there as a common that people can use for various ideas with relatively low barriers to entry. For example, we have for the last several years been discussing how intelligent tuning, spreadspectrum, etc., make a myth of spectrum shortages. If this is the case, then let's put it to the test.



    I propose that we let any "service provider" use this spectrum for a small registration fee and a small monthly rental payment (say on the order of 5% of revenues, which could be used for a number of purposes, including giving poor people cable if we decided that is the best way to spend it) for use of the spectrum, as long as they use a technology that 1) doesn't interfer with any other use of the spectrum using "intelligent tuning" technologies and 2) that doesn't demand exclusive use of the specturm in question.



    What would this achieve? Well, it would give us a commons (where multiple service providers might exist) for creative us of this spectrum at the same that the people get to share in the benefits. By running multiple different applications of the spectrum, we would be able to determine what is the best use - in terms of demand - without looking out other miniority uses of the spectrum. Another cool thing about this plan, is that it could be rolled out over time. We could start by taking channels 3 and 4 off the air across the country (moving existing broadcasters to open holes that are no longer needed due to the improvments in transmission equipment since the advent of TV), see how it works. If over-the-air TV continues to be less and less important, then we could roll up more and more of the spectrum available for the "spectrum commons".

  • by Webmoth ( 75878 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:22PM (#6134937) Homepage
    The tech sector has a really hard time giving up obsolete technology. Microsoft has been trying to kill DOS and the 16-bit API for close to ten years now, and with the advent of XP are we finally seeing the old DOS/Win16 apps disappearing.

    To free up the broadcast TV spectrum (as we know it -- there may still be a market for a spectrum using a different technology) will take a long time, too. First, the FCC will have to go through a lengthy hearings process to decide whether or not to do it. If they do, expect a process something like this:

    FCC opens up a new broadcast spectrum (maybe); sales of new-spectrum TV receivers begin

    FCC stops issuing new licenses for the old spectrum

    FCC bans sale of current old-spectrum licenses to other parties

    Sales of old-spectrum TV sets are stopped

    FCC sets date when all old-spectrum licenses expire

    EPA goes into crisis mode when all of a sudden millions of TV's end up in landfills, setting off an ecological disaster

    Government bans the disposal of old TV's ("You must keep them in your attic forever")

    Wally Shumacher, janitor and garage tinkerer, invents new use for old TV's, saving the planet from destruction and making a few bucks in the process (before getting bought out by Microsoft)

    Oops, got a little sidetracked there. Anyway, expect it to be a LOOOOOOOONG time before the broadcast spectrum as-we-know-it goes away.

  • by re-geeked ( 113937 ) on Friday June 06, 2003 @04:28PM (#6134976)
    Since technology (spread-spectrum, digital) now makes broadcasts of many more channels on these frequencies possible, and since broadcast TV is still the best way to get a consistent message out to a mass audience, and since we'd all like to keep elections from being decided by amount of airtime bought, I think it's time to reslice the pie.

    Either chop up and sell the licences in smaller pieces for shorter terms, or sell them to broadcast "utilities" that themselves sell the ability to broadcast, but can not create or edit programming. (I'm sure such utilities would quickly discover how many channels they can slice their limited frequencies into!)

    Toss in some regulations about not owning too many channels in one spot, and some about providing free air to public-interest programming, political candidates, private citizens, etc. and you've created a more diverse, more accessible, free version of cable.

    Why would this matter to politics? Well, this could be a great chance to reform the rules as a whole new game is created. Maybe you could ban selling political ads, and give politicians free air time instead. Maybe you could even give parties their own little channels. Maybe, if you dealt with the ownership/licensing rules correctly, there would be a natural diversity and competition of ideas and viewpoints, and less political influence wielded by any particular media company.
  • Hazlett is a moron (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Randy Rathbun ( 18851 ) <slashdot.20.randyrathbun@spamgourmet.com> on Friday June 06, 2003 @08:41PM (#6136491) Homepage
    Here's what I wrote in my blog the other day:

    http://randyrathbun.org/archives/000539.html#00053 9 [randyrathbun.org]

    We all know democracy lost the other day when the FCC gave Rupert Murdoch the go ahead to own every media outlet in the country.

    Common Cause has a "write your congressperson" thingy up that you should sign. Not that the Republicans you write will do anything about it.

    Also yesterday on NPR's 'All Things Considered', Thomas Hazlett, a former economist at the FCC, and, I might add, a total nutcase, said that free televison should be banished. What was even stranger is he sounded serious. I don't have a lot of time to write this story and try to explain on how many levels just how wrong and stupid this man is, but I owe it to you, the reader, to try.

    First, the airwaves are public. I don't care how much 'campaign contributions' to the Republicans and Democrats say otherwise, the radio spectrum belongs to the public.

    His entire argument centered around "well, 90% of the population gets their TV from cable or satellite." So what? Last time I checked you could not drive down the street with a cable or satellite dish strapped to the top of your car. I am not saying you should do this, but there are too many situations where receiving TV signals are a matter of life and death. A case in point are the recent tornadoes that ripped through this area. The local TV coverage has been credited with saving many lives during the May 4th storm. I do storm spotting when I can, and have a small portable TV that I carry with me so I can see either the TV station's weather maps. Without information such as this, Mr. Hazlett's plan would be putting too many citizens at risk. Ten percent does not sound like much, but in this past storm it meant that only one person died here in the KC area from the tornadoes vs a number I don't even want to begin to think about had free TV not been available.

    The reasons behind free TV go way beyond just warning people about storms.

    Oh, and according to Hazlett's web page, he is using a free email account at Yahoo. What a dumbass.


    After writing that I got to thinking about some things in addition to my storm spotting scenario. Here in my area it used to be that every time it rained the cable went out because the cable company was beaming the signal over microwave from the receiving station to the head end that served our area. So, no matter what it was doing here at my house, if there was a storm anywhere along that path you got zilch from the cable. The same is true of what happens to satellite during a big storm - I loose sat reception for a while if there is any sort of big cloud between the dish and the sat. My only method of getting a signal from the locals is rabbit ears. If there is any sort of an emergency going on, such as a tornado, I would be left with only one recourse - my local NPR station. For now, that is. Chances are, if Hazlett gets his way that will go away too to turn all the TV and radio channels over to Clear Channel so they can broadcast sports talk and other drivel 24-7.

    Hazlett is typical "big business rules" scum.

  • My thoughts (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cinematique ( 167333 ) on Saturday June 07, 2003 @04:12AM (#6137848)
    First off - Over The Air broadcasting is going nowhere. Period. Your local affiliates will exist well into the future. We need local news and local TV competition... and as much as some affiliates suck, they're absolutely necessary.

    Now, what about idle TV spectrum? Metro and/or Suburban Area Networking. Meshed, fast(?) bla bla bla. I'm no technical genius, and I'm sure that a good protocol for this doesn't even exist, but remember, 802.11x didn't exist several years ago. At any rate, Make it commercial. Make it public/free. Do both. Do whatever is needed to make it happen. It'll never be a replacement for fiber to the home, but maybe it'll allow for the holy grail of telecom competition... wireless VoIP. Even better, maybe it'll allow everyone to have a small chunk of bandwidth out in BFE rural areas. Who knows. At any rate, something is better than nothing, which is what is going on with the majority of TV spectrum.

    Finally - "3G" radio. Satellite radio isn't local which IMHO is its only drawback. Current regulations and standards for AM/FM need to be updated for more efficient use of spectrum. But fuck it. Lets just go all out and make an FM2 or something. Yes, I know there is a technology in the works to "digitize" local radio, but they're going about it in a legacy-supporting way. By going about an upgrade in this manner, the FCC is preventing smaller players from going live. UHF was over-allotted sand box, and FM is an overcrowded ClearChannel clusterfuck... and the FCC needs to fix it... starting over from scratch. Hell, let ClearChannel keep FM... but give us another way to broadcast and receive local content... digitally. "FM2" should have about 100 medium-power channels for everyone to use... requiring an FCC permit, but unlike AM/FM, it should have very low or nonexistent broadcaster fees. It should be what LPFM strived to do, only much better.

    Of course, if we had a good Continental Area Network (ho ho!!) we could just use that to power 3G radio. But I think I've already shot at the stars at it is.

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