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Good, Affordable PC Diagnostic Software?
from the thermometers-for-your-hardware dept.
"The premise of PC diagnostics software is simple: provide an easy way to test for PC hardware problems, independent of software configuration. Some hardware vendors (like Dell) provide diagnostics with their systems, but they are usually model-specific and not even all major vendors provide them. Of course there are free utilities like the well-known memtest86, but I was wanted something more comprehensive.
So I started my research, and found a variety of packages, including PC Doctor, PC Check, Microscope, PC Certify, Tufftest Pro, among many others, ranging in price from $500 to $35. Some come with associated hardware, such as loopback connectors for parallel, serial, network or USB ports, or ISA / PCI cards that will show low-level POST codes for machines that appear completely dead.
Some of the vendors provided demos, but most were severely crippled. The cheaper software tended to be outdated and incomplete, lacking support for newer hardware features. Almost all practiced high-pressure sales tactics over the phone, and I discovered that one company was actually a spinoff of another by a disgruntled former employee, resulting in a bitter, lawsuit-ridden feud.
Microscope, by Micro 2000, seemed to have the most online feedback, mostly positive, but they didn't provide a demo. After contacting their sales, they suggested that if I bought a full copy for my evaluation, I could return it in 30 days if it didn't meet my needs. Well, it turned out to be buggy and missing important features found in other, cheaper products. When I called to return the product, the salesman disclaimed all knowledge of the promise they made, and they've refused to take it back. Some further digging found that I'm not the first person to be taken in by these tactics.
I still would like to find worthwhile PC diagnostics software, but the (a) lack of independent reviews, (b) shady industry sales tactics and (c) poor performance of a 'well regarded' package leave me wondering... am I a sucker for buying into the whole concept in the first place? Can anyone point me towards a reputable vendor, or an alternative set of independent tools that will do the same job?"
Sandra (Score:5, Informative)
It was nice finding out that the RAM I bought from Coast-to-Coast memory that I got a "deal" on was actually a step down in terms of speed (which they were selling for the "sale" price...so it all worked out).
They have diagnosit tests, but I've only used the free version. But its a nice first-line strategy for sizing up machines.
Try AIDA (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.aida32.hu/aida32.php [aida32.hu]
Ziad
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Re:Sounds like AIDA is on its last legs (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't sound anything like being on it's last legs. It sounds like a sensible response for dealing with support for a free product.
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Re:Sandra (Score:5, Informative)
Going back on topic, let me share what I've learned about troubleshooting hardware issues. First, let me stress that it's usually not a hardware issue. Drivers, resource conflicts, and buggy BIOS/Firmware code is usually the issue. When it comes to "diagnostic" software for real hardware problems, there's little you can do. For memory, there's MemTest-86 [memtest86.com]. This program hasn't failed to spot bad memory for me yet. For hard drives, go to the manufacturer's web site to get a bootable diagnostic floppy. Usually the quick tests are all that's needed, but it could pay off to do the extended test if the quick one says everything's OK. Even if the extended test comes back fine, don't rule out the drive. The problem could be intermittent. For the rest of the hardware, simply swap components around until you narrow it down. Take out that video card and toss in a spare one that you've had for several years and know works. For the CPU, toss in any other CPU that matches the original's architecture (Just a different speed rating is OK). I think you get the idea on the (Swapping out) method. Also, never underestimate the crap a poor power supply unit (PSU) can throw at you! Stability issues could be coming from an unreliable current. Of course, temperature problems could also cause these same stability issues, but that's much easier to monitor. When you get to a point where you're truly stumped, some manufacturers have forums that you can go to for help. This is especially true in the homebuilt market with Abit, VIA, AMD, etc.
Good luck and happy hunting!
-Lucas
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Re:Sandra (Score:5, Informative)
It also uses some cygwin tools (dd, etc) to make it so that you can create a bootable CD by emulating the creation of a boot floppy via DD, so you can create one w/o the need for an actual floppy (I would recommend hacking it to create 2.88MB floppies rather than 1.44 MB floppies (need to search its config files to handle this)
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Re:Sandra (Score:5, Insightful)
I too have seen memtest fail to find bad memory, but only once so far. (I switched out memory and since then, no problems.) Also keep in mind, that due to the way it works, memtest errors could be power supply, motherboard, or CPU related in addition to memory related.
I've also seen the hd tests fail to spot a hard drive that was bad too. I spent over a week on one of them trying to figure out why it kept having problems. Since it was in my possession, I didn't have to worry out the cleaning crew causing the problem (see this story [computerworld.com] under neat idea..)
I've come to the conclusion that there is NO test that can say if the hardware is good, only tests that can say its bad. Between memtest and knoppix (and the hd tests), I can USUALLY spot faulty hardware quickly, but every so often..GRRRR
BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but the ultimate boot CD [ultimatebootcd.com] (free!) contains lots of useful tools all on one CD. These include memtest, and the various hd manufacturer's tests.
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Re:Sandra - NO GOOD (Score:5, Informative)
Likewise, anyone can write a driver bad enough to make the video tests fail, but that doesn't mean the video card is actually defective.
Years ago, I worked at a PC manufacturer and we used QAPLUS FE. It was small enough to fit on a floppy disk, and had modules for all the independant subsystems: CPU, RAM, VIDEO, IO Ports, Timer channels, interrupts, Hard disk... You could select all the tests and let it run all night. If it failed on something, it actually gave you an idea on what might be the problem.
I would recommend QAPLUS if they had an up-to-date version that booted from a CD and had it's own KNOWN GOOD drivers for hardware. A Plus would be some sort of modular technology that would allow you to add drivers for more hardware in the future.
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Low Cost (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.linuxforum.com/linux_wallpapers_full
Re:Low Cost (Score:5, Interesting)
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Since you mentioned Dell (Score:5, Informative)
Excellent Software (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Excellent Software (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Excellent Software (Score:5, Informative)
Also of note, troubleshooter comes on one floppy disk and one backup floppy disk; it cannot be duplicated by any means I could discover, even for backups. "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"
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They are all basically useless... (Score:5, Insightful)
Biggest cause of failure in old PC: Bad contacts (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed: Try known good parts.
To prove to yourself that it really is fixed, use a memory tester, the hard disk manufacturer's disk diagnostics, and either a program that reboots an OS 20 seconds after it is loaded (on Windows XP, Wizmo [grc.com] from GRC.com and Sleep.exe from the resource kit) or, even better, some Linux or BSD build process that takes several hours.
The biggest cause of failure in an old PC: Bad contacts. Just move every card and connector 2 millimeters out and in again. The rubbing of metal to metal creates fresh contact surfaces. Renewing the contacts should be the first step in fixing any PC.
The biggest cause of real failure in a new PC: Infant failure. Components are more than 100 times more likely to fail in the first week than they are in the 100 weeks after that.
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No kidding (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep in mind typical diagnostic sofware back then would test for things like memory not really being there (bad address or data line problem) or interrupts stuck on or not happening when they should or can't talk to the disk drive.
None of this crap really helps is you have a bad scsi cable (ouch, that was a long drawn out pig) or a bad cable or the wrong cache controller chip (ouch) or a bad power supply or wrong speed RAM any of which will cause a system to beheva erratically and in a - and this is the bad part - non repeatable way.
Back then almost every part was $8000, these days the answer to "how do I fix a flakey computer" is "buy a new one".
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Not many PC maintenance people use any diagnostics (Score:5, Insightful)
That's always worked better for me than anything else. Although it would be nice to have something tell me what's wrong
Magic Smoke (Score:5, Insightful)
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I use make buildworld (Score:4, Informative)
Another vote for SiSoft Sandra (Score:4, Informative)
A tip: run it as Administrator or you'll get limited information out of the BIOS. And if you're using *nix, you'll have to look elsewhere.
Re:Another vote for SiSoft Sandra (Score:4, Insightful)
Generic tools like memtestX86 are a good start, but there is a limit to what you can do with generic tools. Ultimately, you need hardware-specific tests. Hardware manufactures need to do a better job of providing diagnostic tools for the things they sell. Yeah, you can test the gross functionality of any sound card by playing music, but to do a complete test you need something designed for that specific card.
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I am looking at my sagging bookshelves that are (Score:5, Insightful)
memtest86 (Score:5, Informative)
The best tools for checking memory are memtest86 [memtest86.com] and the follow-up memtest86+ [memtest.org].
Both of these are free to download and use. I usually leave them running for roughly 24hrs for a reasonable level of confidence. You should also burn-in the other major components too but memory is the best place to start.
#1-TuffTEST Pro, cheap, bootable (Score:5, Informative)
ultimatebootcd (Score:5, Informative)
Forget expensive software (Score:5, Informative)
Consider a motherboard failure for instance - a failing motherboard can in effect emulate any other hardware failure - ide controller bad? Your software may blame the hard drive. Bus problems can cause memory checks to fail.
I recommend you carry a simple bootable cdrom that loads the entire system (disk i/o, memory i/o and cpu load) and checks for errors. When a system fails these checks all it tells you is the problem is definately hardware and not a buggy driver or other software issue.
See BartPE [nu2.nu] for a good free solution.
The state of PCs (Score:5, Insightful)
PC software is shit. Software is still in the dark ages. No qualifications to show who has the first clue about quality, security, extensibility etc.
If you get any problem you can't fix in 30 mins, best to make sure you've backed up everything important (naturally you never need to ask anyone whether this is the case, because everybody always backs up their important data on a daily basis, right?), then just format or ghost the fucking disk. End of problem, and no tedious troubleshooting what happens when you try and get a LameSoft2000 graphics card working with a ShysterTronics printer.
Re:The state of PCs (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The state of PCs (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The state of PCs (Score:4, Interesting)
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F.I.R.E. (Score:5, Informative)
diag software (Score:4, Insightful)
Barking up the wrong tree... (Score:4, Informative)
Most OEM's are fairly accomodating if you describe problems in a decent amount of detail (and the machine is under warranty).
If these are white boxes, you're probably better off keeping a pile of spare parts around. A quick swap can get a machine up and running quickly.
Good Luck!
Aida32 (Score:5, Interesting)
Free for personal use, businesses must register. Well worth it.
SpinRite and Memtest (Score:5, Informative)
Flawed Concept. (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, if it is an issue with hardware, the machine may not boot at all. If it is a ram issue, the diagnostic software may generate errors.
Second, even if it highlights an error in a configuration, it could be generated with the analysis software.
Third is that failed hardware often will not register as failed unless it is operating. Such as, a failed modem will not become noticable until it is used and then it may lock the computer up which could stop the software diagnosing the issue.
Your best bet is to use a cause and effect analysis. Then trial and error. The machine won't boot, find every possible cause of it not booting and eliminate each one as a possible cause. Continue on this until the issue is completely solved. Make a checklist for yourself so you don't forget anything.
It is how I do freelance repairs and it has proven bulletproof compared to the Voodoo Computer Repair Experts that try random things in the hope that it fixes the issue. (Install drivers, reinstall OS, Check CPU)
Some products (Score:5, Informative)
Other tools you might be interested in;
Aida32 [aida32.hu] basically lists all of your devices, drivers, wmi software entries, pci devices, etc. for windows - needs an install, though.
OnTrack [ontrack.com] sell Easy Recovery Professional; the "file repair" options are pretty crappy, but for serious, near-forensic recovery on fscked up filesystems, ERP is a fine tool. Some of OnTrack's software (i.e. SMART tests, usually) may be licensed by the manufacturer of your harddrive, so check those pages out.
SiSoft Sandra is recommended a lot, but I don't find it offers a lot of diagnostics, though it is prone to crashing.
On windows, you might want to check out the Event Viewer, hidden in the Computer Management section of the (classic) Control Panel -- it will list all sorts of errors and notifications, kind of like
AIDA & PC-Config & NSSI (Score:4, Informative)
Check those out.
My advice (Score:5, Insightful)
Knoppix - verify the part under another OS.
Tomsrtbt - I forget if Knoppix has badblocks or not. If it doesn't, Tomsrtbt does.
memtest86 - Memory tester.
Spare HDD - good for having a clean install of windows to check things on.
Spare low-density memory.
Spare older computer for testing daughtercards.
That's about it.
Of course, sooner or later you *will* get the machine from hell with an intermediate fault that ends up locking windows for no damn good reason every so often. Then life will suck. But that's why they call it work.
Always pay with a credit card (Score:5, Insightful)
All those tools suck (Score:5, Informative)
Microscope from Micro2000 is actually the best of the bunch, but that's not saying much. If your computer won't even post, non of these tools will do you any good. (They do have some good training materials for those wanting an A+ or N+ COMPTIA cert.)
The PCI cards that display diagnostic codes are better than the software in those cases. They still aren't very helpful though. Basically they will tell you there is a problem with the memory, or the parallel port, etc., but they won't tell you exactly what's wrong so they aren't of much use either.
Here's my advice:
1. Get the power supply tester from PC Power & Cooling. It's $20, and in my experience most of the time the reason a computer won't even post is because the cheapass power supply that came with the case died.
2. Carry a bunch of known good parts: an AGP and a PCI video card you know work, a PCI network card and PCI modem, some known good RAM (PC 100 and DDR), and a good hard drive. Ideally, these are all in a fully working computer you've brought to the site so you can swap between the working computer and the not-working computer and narrow down the problem. Resist the temptation to fix the system with your known good parts; make them buy new, name-brand components with a warranty.
3. Bring a USB keyboard and mouse. I've seen lots of 3+ year old computers have their PS/2 connections short out or stop working but their USB ports are just fine. They can solve input problems.
4. Have a Knoppix CD in your kit. The linux forensic toolkit can be of great use recovering files and finding problems.
It has been my experience (Score:5, Informative)
Allow me to give you some background:
I have done IT work for 4.5 years. I work with Novell, RedHat, all (disgusting) flavours of Windows, BeOS, Sun, SGI, Apple (Mac) and QNX. I support everyone from Joe Grandma to major Universities and Medical Colleges.
I have several CDs worth of useful tools at my disposal, all of them free:
Ad-Aware: I consider this to be my single best resource in the fight against Windows NT (and up) flakery.
www.trendmicro.com does an on-line virus scan. Not perfect, but usually finds the major ones.
Demos of Anti-Trojan. Again, good enough for the closing of trojan ports left open.
AVG Anti-Virus software. Good, free AV software, if Norton isn't available.
Winzip: Obviously a good thing, many many drivers come zipped.
A CD full of the most common NIC drivers from the biggest vendors.
nVidia and ATI drivers.
Via drivers
All the latest browsers on another CD.
MemTestx86 (as you have found): Allow me one point further int he favor of it, major memory makers will accept their RAM bad, no questions asked (in my experience) if you tell them it was checked and found bad, via MemTextx86.
SiSoft Sandra, if for nothing else than the CPU-Burn wizard. If the CPU is bad, Sandra will find out.
Emergency Boot disks and cd-rom access disks (sadly, the Win98 boot disk is pretty handy)
A live Linux and live BeOS CD (very handy for recovering data of hosed systems)
And last, but not least, a good Google search. Another thing that has saved my skin time and again is to input exact error messages and see what Google turns up.
This whole cd-wallet has set me back perhaps $20, and does far more than "professional" diag tools can hope to accomplish.
Best hardware diagnostic (Score:5, Informative)
I remember back at school where the tech support guys were ripping their hair out because a lot of the school issued PCs were coming back with random crashing problems. (I had a roommate who's machine would crash everytime the screensaver kicked in). They were replacing parts left and right and it never seemed to fix the problem. My roommate had everything replaced except the case at one part, and it still crashed on a vanilla Win3.1 install. It took them awhile to realize that most of the machines had bad memory, and the vendor supplied replacement memory for the systems was usually bad as well. I eventually loaned my roommate my memory sticks, and when his system didn't crash he went back to the PC guys and told them exactly what the problem was and made them continue swapping in RAM sticks until they finally found one that worked (apparently the RAM was OK in their hardware RAM tester, but failed once it was actually put in PCs. They suspected the same thing was happening at the vendors end. They would get bad memory, test it and not discover a problem, then ship it right back to the school.
Alternative medicine (Score:5, Funny)
I have found variations of the Hopi rain dance to be effective in solving many PC hardware problems. Tibetan chanting also work well.
Re:Alternative medicine (Score:5, Funny)
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Ultimate Boot CD (Score:5, Informative)
Free and includes loads of software.
robust, reputable, and Free (Score:5, Informative)
I suggest you make a Knoppix [knoppix.org] CD with LTP installed. With a little configuration, that will take care of all of all your tests for the memory, disk, IO, and CPU. You might want to install America's Army [americasarmy.com] or something to test the video subsystem.
If you put a little effort into it, you'll have a test suite as good as, and likely better than, anything you could pay money for. If you want to buy something, you can make a donation to the LTP and Knoppix projects.
There are also simpler tools, like Memtest86 [memtest86.com]. I find this tool to be invaluable when I try to salvage old hardwar. I can't begin to tell you how much time it's saved me that I would have spent aimlessly swapping components around.
Re:to start you off (Score:4, Interesting)
If you read the article, RebornData is looking for something more comprehensive than memtest offers. (ie: more than just a memory test. I assume to include disk, bios, video, cpu information, and a variety of other system tests and checks.)
I myself question the need for much more than a disk-surface-scan tool and a copy of memtest, but it's what RebornData is looking for.
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Re:I've found these useful. (Score:5, Insightful)
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WHat?! (Score:5, Informative)
If you come to a computer that needs work and you boot into a Knoppix CD you get...a desktop. On the other hand if you boot on to something like the ultimate boot cd [ultimatebootcd.com] you get a nice menu broken down by category of things like "File system utilities", "Memory Tests", and "Hard drive cloning". I just don't see how Knoppix can compare to that. I'm willing to listen though, if you care to explain what makes it so great for this.
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