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What are My Rights Against Video Surveillance?

Posted by Cliff on Tue Sep 28, 2004 01:58 PM
from the this-is-not-a-reality-TV-show dept.
Privacy
Violated Privacy asks: "A video bugging device was recently discovered in the bathroom of the house I share with three others. After sharing this find with one of the housemates, I am sure whose camera it is. Needless to say, we're both rather upset over the matter. What are our legal rights in this matter? It's not the government doing it, but another private citizen with whom we willingly (until now...) share a house. Are there special considerations? (Yes, I should ask a lawyer. I plan on doing that tomorrow when I get a chance. The problem is, most lawyers aren't exactly experts in this area.) Has anyone on Slashdot done research into this field of privacy law?"
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What are My Rights Against Video Surveillance? 50 Comments More /

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  • URL? (Score:5, Funny)

    by brunson (91995) * on Tuesday September 28 2004, @01:59PM (#10376291) Homepage
    What's the address of the website you're on?
      • I posted that because it was the quickest way to make people understand what I was talking about. It was late and I had work in the morning. Story subissions are lame without links, and I didn't exactly feel in the mood to start building a web site around my discovery. Here [dugnet.com]'s my little makeshift page with a few more details on the insides of the bastard.

  • No rights. (Score:5, Funny)

    by christopherfinke (608750) <cfinke@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:00PM (#10376305) Homepage Journal
    This is completely legal. There's no use going to the police; people do this all the time. You should probably just put it behind you.

    Oh, and could I have my video camera back? Thanks.

  • But of course. . . (Score:4, Insightful)

    by the argonaut (676260) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:01PM (#10376311) Homepage Journal
    Any lawyer you speak to is far more likely to be an expert on it than some random guy on /. (apologies to the lawyers in the audience). And even if a lawyer isn't an expert, s/he is probably more than capable of finding the answers or pointing you in the right direction.
    • While reading this I anticipated the second sentence to read:

      And even if a lawyer isn't an expert, s/he is probably more than capable of spewing off some legal BS and charging you $200/hr anyway.

      Besides, anyone with any savvy knows that if you put lemon juice on your face, video cameras can't record you.

  • Looks pretty expensive (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:01PM (#10376321)
    I would say unplug it and hide it in a closet, then casually mention that the alarm wasn't working too well so you threw it away and bought a new one.

    Watch their reaction when they realize that their $350 just got tossed.
    • Here's my suggestion:

      0) Replace the camea clock with a regular one
      1) Prit out the famous hello.jpg
      2) Point the camera at the picture.
      3) There is no profit, just fun.

      Bonus points if you install surveillance on the dude between 0) and 2) and send him a printout of his face in the "bueeee" mode.

  • What state? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Atzanteol (99067) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:02PM (#10376332) Homepage
    Different states have different laws on this... For instance, in Massachusetts so long as they weren't recording *sound*, then it's perfectly legal (yes, believe it or not!).

    We *are* trying to fix this little loop-hole, but legislation has tied the bill up for a bit...

  • Report it to the police (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Engineer-Poet (795260) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:03PM (#10376350) Homepage Journal
    In most places I've heard of, invasion of privacy is a crime; there have been numerous news items about people (mostly men) being prosecuted for putting cameras in restrooms and changing rooms. So go to the cops first. At the very least you'll get a police report out of it.
    • You might want to try the cops, but they don't know the law, they just enforce laws they think are important and easy to catch people doing. A lawyer is your best bet, their job is to know the law, especially since the laws vary from state to state.

      I do know that I've seen issues about this in public places (cameras in bathrooms) and the use of cameras in places like this were found to be illegal.

      Actually, a quicker cheaper thing to do would be go get a baseball bat and teach the person a lesson regardin

  • call the police (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sribe (304414) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:05PM (#10376370)
    First, take pictures of the device so you have documentation in case the pervert housemate gets suspicious and tries to remove it quickly. Then call the police; in most states this is a criminal act that can get the perv arrested. (I recall a case in the past couple of years where prosecutors discovered that their state's law had been written before video was invented, and was worded in such a way that it only covered audio recordings. The perv in that case got off, but the state legislature fixed the problem promptly.) Do not hesitate about calling the police and getting this person in trouble; this is the act of a sick and potentially dangerous person who needs either intense involuntary psychiatric treatment or prison time, or both. Do not worry about your lease and so on, those things will work themselves out. Go to the police NOW!

    And remember, if your name is on the lease, you can grant permission to the police to search the premises without a warrant...
    • >...The perv in that case got off...

      I'm sure he/she did. ;)
    • Did take pictures, but I'm not sure about the search aspect. I'll take that up with the police when the time comes (soon). My name is on the lease, but I would love to find a way to limit the scope of any searching/seizing done. I'd prefer not to have all of my electronics shuffled through and held while the courts grind away, and I know the other two (innocent) roomies feel that way too.

      (By the way, we *do* rather plan on finding a new house-mate, whether it be by his moving out or ours.)

  • Honestly... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Otter (3800) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:05PM (#10376371) Journal
    Realistically, does it matter? On the one hand, whether or not this is illegal, it's certainly outside the bounds of acceptable roomate behavior (to put it mildly). I'd be either getting out or kicking the perpetrator out immediately, depending on which option is available. On the other hand, are you going to sue the guy if you could? Unless he's loaded, there isn't a deep pocket available to make a lawyer bother taking you on.

    That leaves a criminal case, and fortunately you're not expected to do legal research before requesting one. If you want to go that route, call the police and have them and the local prosecutors decide what can be done.

  • Violence. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:06PM (#10376379)
    I don't understand why you wouldn't just beat the fuck out of the person for doing it? Whatever happened to direct justice/vengeance? You know, it's not a BAD THING to get your own justice when someone does something wrong to you. Fill up a pillow cases with bars of soap and everyone can have at the prick. Hey, maybe you can even videotape it!
  • Are you more upset for:

    A) $PERSON invaded your privacy

    B) $PERSON caught you on $TAPE, $DOING what ever $YOU'vs where doing?

  • 1) As a member of the house, he can legally record anything happening in it.

    2) As long as he does not try to reap any financial gain from it, he can freely post it anywhere he sees fit. Yes, this means he could plaster it all over the web and you'd have no legal recourse (assuming you and your roomie are over 18)

    There was a case a while back of a father taping his twenty-something year-old daughter (without her knowledge) and posting the videos to the net. She brought him to court and lost.

    You can't

  • Hit them where it hurts. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chris_mahan (256577) <chris.mahan@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:08PM (#10376411) Homepage
    Reformat their hard-drive.

    (use a knoppix cd to boot the beast)(wear gloves at the keyboard)

    They'll assume drive failure the first time. The second time, they'll get a really uncomfortable feeling.

    PS: I don't actually advocate doing that. I would just move.
    PPS: If you really want to do something, call a lawyer.
    PPPS: Landlord?

    • "Hit them where it hurts"

      I'd suggest in the balls.

      Same advice if your roomate is female - the clitoris is quite sensitive (news to most Slashdotter's) and a good kick between the legs will have a satisfactory effect.

    • Re:Hit them where it hurts. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Otter (3800) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @03:13PM (#10377149) Journal
      (use a knoppix cd to boot the beast)

      Is there any question to which "You should use Linux!" is not the answer? ("What should I do about the hidden camera in my bathroom?" "Linux!")

      Anyway, unless the roommate has a really old computer, he'd be better off using a Gentoo LiveCD with its Pentium optimization. That should save at least four or five milliseconds.

  • Start by throwing the room mate out...now. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by j-turkey (187775) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:09PM (#10376426) Homepage

    Does their name appear on your lease? You may want to talk with a lawyer first, but if one of my housemates tried to pull any of that, I would likely change the locks and leave their possessions on the lawn for them to collect.

    There are some things that you shouldn't tolerate. I believe that this is one of them...regardless of the legality of their actions.

    As far as them releasing pictures of you on the can and in the shower, your rights vary from state to state (if you're in the US). Contact your state AG's office for details.

  • Call the cops. (Score:5, Informative)

    by FreeLinux (555387) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:10PM (#10376435)
    It's illegal in all 50 states (I'm assuming you're in the US). It often falls under the Peeping Tom laws but, there are also more stringent and specific laws in many places. In many states the person will become a registered sex offender, as they should be.

    Here's a case [usatoday.com] from 2002. This story [cornellsun.com], dated August 2004, sounds very much like yours.

  • Simple (Score:3, Funny)

    by bhima (46039) <Bhima.Pandava@gm ... .com minus punct> on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:12PM (#10376460) Journal
    Pawn it...

  • Infect their computer (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If the video stream goes to a computer, come up with a picture, which digitized would contain a JPEG virus and attack GDI+ interface of their Windoze machine.

  • Translation... (Score:4, Funny)

    by kenthorvath (225950) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:15PM (#10376477)
    ... I am thinking of setting up a webcam of my roommates and was seeking the legal opinion of non-lawyers.
  • Revenge is a dish best served cold.

    Set up a secret camera in his room to record the dork. When you catch the guy smoking pot or masturbating, send the video tape to his parents.

  • Try the peaceful way. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Max von H. (19283) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:18PM (#10376519) Homepage
    Why don't you confront the person face to face before unleashing some greedy lawyer onto the case? If the culprit's one of your housemates, I guess you can just talk it over... I mean, if the recordings were only done for private purposes and only involve adults, kicking the guy out and destroying the evidence sounds like a reasonable punishment.

    Of course, if it's your landlord doing it and selling/sharing the stuff among sickos, it's another story.

    Just remember that not everything in life should be judged in court, dialogues can solve many things without getting to ruin one's life with punitive damages or jailing. Someone watched your butt, it's not the end of the world for Khtuhlu's sake! You'll save yourself a lot of stress that way and probably live longer :)
    • Honestly, I'd rather not have made this discovery; I'd rather not be involved at all.

      The problem is liability. I know about the camera, as do both of my other victimized housemates. There have been other residents of this house eith the perv before any of us three came along. I have no idea if/when/how they'll react, but I definitely do NOT want to be on the wrong side of the law when that happens.

  • Totally depends on gender (Score:4, Funny)

    by R2.0 (532027) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:22PM (#10376560)
    You Roomate Action

    M M Physical violence, combined with targetted property destruction (erase HD, etc.)

    F F Same as above

    F M Police, court system - get him tagged as a sex offender for life

    M F Sorry, you are S.O.L. Can't beat her up, legal system won't help. Just try to get the tapes/data erased and kick her out. Of course, if she's kinky enough, maybe there should be a change in strategy.

  • give us more info (Score:4, Interesting)

    by austad (22163) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:25PM (#10376583) Homepage
    I'm curious as to how you figured it out? Was your roomie a weirdo and gave you the heebie-jeebies? Have you seen those clocks before and the thought crossed your mind that you might have one in your house?

    I always wonder how many of the hotels I've stayed in have had hidden cams. In the high school [k12.mn.us] I went to for about 3 years, we noticed that one of the mirrors in the boys bathroom across from the library looked a bit different than the rest. It didn't reflect as much light. Behind that wall was the teachers lounge. One day after school when most people were gone, we went into the lounge. Along that wall was a series of closets. We opened one of the closets, pushed some stuff to the side, and in the back, someone had chipped out part of a cement block to be able see through the two way mirror they had installed in the bathroom. We never brought it up to anyone, and I'm sure it's probably still there today (11 years later).
    • Added a picture of the front of the unit to my page [dugnet.com].

      To answer your question, the clock just didn't look right. I'm not paranoid, but apparently at least curious enough to look closely.

      The clock/radio/camera had been displaced in the bathroom by a larger/better mini-stereo a week or two ago. This past weekend, it was put back up on the shelf and plugged in. That was the source of my initial curiosity.

      What got me really thinking was the lack of a tuning indicator. Actually, I was trying to figure out if the holes lit up with LEDs to show approximate tuning or what, and how the tuning of the radio worked. I peeled back the sticker on the front, and noticed the 3/4"-or-so lens assembly behind the leftmost hole.

      It appears the tuning indicator was one of the casualties of the conversion to a camera, though the radio itself still works fine. In the pictures, you'll also note that the space for the back-up 9V battery is taken by the transmitter. Otherwise, the clock is still as fully functional as the day it rolled off the Sony production line.

  • A suggestion... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jo42 (227475) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @02:37PM (#10376738) Homepage

    Hang a photo of the goatse guy in front of the camera...

  • Turnabout ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by bryanp (160522) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @03:05PM (#10377055)
    If he doesn't know that you know you could always give him a special show. May I suggest pointing it at images of a certain man of the goats we've all come to know and fear? Or perhaps his girlfriend in her tub?

  • Child Porn waiting to happen (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RLMorgan (74446) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @03:26PM (#10377308)
    If a minor goes into that room, it could become automatic child porn. I remember reading of a case of a hidden camera and the person who put it there LOL at the people upset about it. Until a 14 year old came forward and said they had changed clothes in that room. That gave the police all the probable cause they needed to confiscate everything and haul him away on a child porn charge. He now has to register as a sex offender.

  • What Congress is doing about it right now... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Randym (25779) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @03:47PM (#10377520)
    Go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ and in the Word/Phrase box enter "Video Voyeurism". This will bring up the "Video Voyeurism Prevention Act of 2003".

  • Why post this here? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Nick of NSTime (597712) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @04:25PM (#10377920)
    Dear Slashdot, I am currently in county lockup for running over a homeless man in downtown Chicago. He was lying on a wireless access point that I wanted to warchalk. I'm using my one phone call to post an AudioBlog entry that will be crossposted to Slashdot, so I ask you, the Slashdot reader: How should I plead in my arraignment tomorrow?

  • reverse astroturf? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gumbi west (610122) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @07:16PM (#10379358) Journal
    Even though most who write in will talk about how awful this thing is (and 99.9% will probably mean it), this ad/article is not form them.

    This is obviously a reverse astroturf (is there a real word for that?). This guy gets his product put on slashdot (better advertising that having it be a popunder on new york times as far as I can see) for free!

    Way to go slashdot editors!

  • Punish! Punish! Punish! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by theonetruekeebler (60888) on Wednesday September 29 2004, @10:25AM (#10383754) Homepage Journal
    I'm sick and tired of everybody positively drooling over ways to fuck this guy over. Unless this is somebody you've hated for a long time and you've been dying to nail for something---anything---maybe you need to take a slightly more sympathetic approach: This is somebody with a problem and he should seek professional help resolving it. Confiscate the camera and confront him as a group. Tell him that this is intolerable and illegal behavior and whatever else you can prove to be true. Tell him that, morally, he's doing something sexual with a nonconsenting partner. Then demand that he go seek professional help. Hell, blackmail him into getting it. And if you decide to vote him off the island, he will almost certainly leave without a fuss.

    My concerns:

    1. Going legal will be expensive. And if it doesn't work, you've taught him that he can get away with it.
    2. Just kicking him out will put him in another roommate situation, exposing (sorry!) the new roommates to the same spying.
    3. Calling the cops might not accomplish anything either, which has the same side effect as (1) above. If it does work, it might ruin his life when the possibility for making his life better exists.

    Meeting with the landlord and having him thrown out is probably the most expeditious way of dealing with this. If the roommate decides to make a stink, the landlord should start formal eviction proceedings against him, and call the local reactionary newspaper columnist with a great story on how hard it is to throw a dangerous roommate out of a house in order to protect the other tenants.

    I freely acknowledge that you are under no obligation to do anything positive or helpful in your situation, and that under the law you have the right to be as destructive and punitive to this individual as you can get away with. There is a huge difference between having a right and doing the right thing.

    • Re:do it in this order (i'm a cop, really i am) (Score:4, Insightful)

      by joshki (152061) on Tuesday September 28 2004, @11:14PM (#10380657)
      Ordinarily I refuse to even read AC's, however in this case since some IDIOT modded you up, I feel the need to respond.

      You are obviously NOT a police officer. First of all, I've never heard an officer refer to him/herself as a "cop." Secondly, your advice is complete BS. DO NOT EVER tamper with evidence!!! The second you start moving stuff around you've very likely destroyed whatever case the DA may have had, and you've certainly destroyed whatever civil case you may have had.

      Call the police, follow their advice. Not some AC "cop" from slashdot.

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