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United States The Almighty Buck

Tax Time Again: Any Linux Solutions? 751

Posted by timothy from the happy-new-year-from-your-uncle dept.
vettemph writes "As a Linux user, I've used Intuit's Turbo Tax On The Web in the past, but I don't like paying someone $20 to $30 to submit my forms. For the last few years I've been filling out the forms by hand and mailing them for $0.37 instead. Call me cheap. The IRS has a target of 80% of all taxpayers using e-file in the near future. Does anyone know where the 'free and open' solution is? Do we need to petition the IRS? Currently the IRS seems to be protecting their 'approved e-file partners'' profit margins in the name of a security layer. (I call shenanigans!)" So how will you be doing this year's taxes? I'd settle for a good PDF editor to neatly complete the IRS's PDF forms.
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Tax Time Again: Any Linux Solutions? More

Tax Time Again: Any Linux Solutions?

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  • PDFs are there... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lord Jester ( 88423 ) <jeff AT lordjester DOT com> on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:03PM (#11300723) Homepage
    I just use the fillable PDFs that are available on the web site.

  • Free File (Score:5, Informative)

    by captnitro ( 160231 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:03PM (#11300725)
    The IRS has a Free File [irs.gov] program that a number of companies provide assuming you don't have any "special cases", that is to say, can use the basic 1040 -- don't own a business, take standard deduction, etc. I've found (whodathunkit) H&R Block's Free File program to be quite good. I did my taxes in my lunchbreak and got my refund the next week.

    • H&R Block Free File (Score:3, Informative)

      by wersh ( 765553 )
      H&R Block IRS Free File - Online Tax Programs [hrblock.com] - "FREE online federal tax prep and e-file for filers with AGI of $34,000 or less." They also have a few relatively inexpensive options if you don't quite qualify for that. I've used the free option for the past few years and it works great. (Even handles some of the non-standard stuff.)

    • Intuit "Tax Freedom Project" (Score:5, Informative)

      by SeaDour ( 704727 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:26PM (#11300896) Homepage

      http://www.taxfreedom.com/ [taxfreedom.com]

      Select taxpayers under a certain income, or with a student or military status, can use the TurboTax Web edition for free, with a free e-file for their federal return and (if their state participates in the program) one free state tax return.

    • Re:Free File (Score:4, Interesting)

      by EnronHaliburton2004 ( 815366 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:20PM (#11301147) Homepage Journal
      can use the basic 1040 -- don't own a business, take standard deduction

      You should be very careful about using the 1040-EZ form. Unless you are young and don't make much money (which on ./ is a sizable number of people), you can usually save a ton of money by doing itemized deductions. Of course, it takes time to figure out the itemized deductions.

      Myself, I use a tax accountant to do my taxes (Local shop with a good reputation). We pay her $300, and she typically finds a more then a thousand dollars worth of deductions that we missed when we practiced on our own (even with TurboTax). Student loans, home loan, children, business expenses, professional education, healthcare expenses, donations to the Goodwill, etc. can really add up. Every year the tax rules change, and can't keep up on all the best loopholes.

      Plus, she's gives us financial advice. I was employeed for a year, and we ran up too much debt. Last year we consolidated our Credit Card loans & some professional education loans into a Home Equity Line of Credit. Not only are the rates lower (4% vs 15% for the Credit Cards), but our payments are now tax deductable.

      Taxes are such a fucking game.

  • Check back on Jan 14th (Score:5, Informative)

    by alen ( 225700 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:05PM (#11300735)
    I forgot where I read it, but on the 14th on the http://www.irs.gov/ [irs.gov] they will post a full list of where you can file an electronic return for free.

  • dual boot (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mslinux ( 570958 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:06PM (#11300748)
    I'll take a break from Linux and boot into WinXP Home (which I bought a $89 OEM license for). I'll buy a copy of Turbo Tax from Walmart for $30 bucks and submit my return online.

    It's not all or nothing. Windows is great for stuff like this. Don't let your ideology get in the way of cheap, efficient, widely avaiable software that'll make your life easier.

    • Some of us are ourselves cheap, you insensitive clod! $120 may not be much anymore, but it's still not petty cash! And I'll let whatever ideology I want to get in the way, you doubly-insensitive clod!

    • Re:dual boot (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gaewyn L Knight ( 16566 ) <vaewyn AT wwwrogue DOT com> on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:18PM (#11300834) Homepage Journal
      Then while I am in windows I have no routing for my neighborhood wireless I source... my wife gets pissed because she can't get to the ogg share drive for her music... and my Mythtv can't record any programs...

      Yes I could get more computers... but then again a computer + a copy of windows + a tax program... you might as well have a CPA do it for you so you at least have the time free to do something else... the cost sure isn't gonna be different.

      Remember... dual boot is only an option on a machine that is 100% a workstation... and when you have linux not many people treat their "workstations" like 100% workstations.

    • I'll take a break from Linux and boot into WinXP Home

      ...

      It's not all or nothing. Windows is great for stuff like this.

      Eh? I'm sure Windows runs Turbo Tax just fine -- that's what it's designed to run under, after all.

      I don't understand your `all or nothing' comment at all. What's all or nothing?

      In the past, Tax Cut and Turbo Tax have run fine on Wine [winehq.com]. As long as they aren't trying to do some really stupid low-level DRM stuff (like Turbo Tax did last year) I'd expect it to still work fine

    • "It's not all or nothing. Windows is great for stuff like this. Don't let your ideology get in the way of cheap, efficient, widely avaiable software that'll make your life easier."

      What's even cooler about that approach is you suddenly have a huge library of games available to you. If you ever get bored with Tux Racer...

    • Re:dual boot (Score:5, Informative)

      by kerskine ( 46804 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:34PM (#11300936) Journal
      Don't forget that the cost of WinXP and Turbotax is it self tax deductable (tax preperation expenses).

      • Re:dual boot (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Dun Malg ( 230075 )
        Don't forget that the cost of WinXP and Turbotax is it self tax deductable (tax preperation expenses).

        Not that deductability matters in small increments like that. A hundred and thirty bucks in software is meaningless for anyone who deducts enough to get over the "standard deduction". It is, after all, just a deduction in income; you save maybe twenty, maybe thirty bucks off your tax bill.

    • non free is trouble, mbr drm (Score:5, Interesting)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:51PM (#11301011) Homepage Journal
      Don't let your ideology get in the way of cheap, efficient, widely avaiable software that'll make your life easier.

      It may be cheap and easy but it might not make my life easier. Most non free companies have a way of making things miserable for their users and I refuse to fund them.

      It was turbo tax's mistaken use of the master boot record for copy protection that put a freeze on any new non free software installation. I don't want tax time to wipe out grub for me. This also rules out using something like crossover office. While it might be easy to repair the damage, I refuse to pay money to be screwed that way or others.

      The bottom line is that if I don't trust the bastards with my hardware, why should I trust them with tax records? My bank already sold me out so that my snail mailbox is flooded with Mortage applications. They sent me a form that I have to snail mail back with a signature to opt out of their spam program. What turds. A company that writes out to my MBR is liable to be as fast and lose with my tax information.

      My ideology is firmly based in the practical. It does not hurt me to do my taxes by hand and by doing so I avoid many other problems. My avoidance of Windoze has saved me countless hours of upkeep that I used to spend due to bugs, worms and all of it was compounded by stupid shit like the registry. It's problems like this that free software is made to avoid. Non free software is designed to exert control over you and that control almost always spells more hassle than it's worth.

  • web-based tax software (Score:4, Informative)

    by geg81 ( 816215 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:06PM (#11300750)
    Several companies have web-based tax software: there is no software to install, they have all the forms, you get a PDF, and they can also submit it for you. I used one of them last year with Linux and Firefox and it worked like a charm. The refunds arrived very quickly, too.

    Installable tax software is so 20th century :-)

  • free file (Score:3, Interesting)

    by brienc ( 198804 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:07PM (#11300755)
    Lots of folks are eligilbe for free filing using web based tools. It was quick and easy for me last year.

    http://www.irs.gov/efile/article/0,,id=118986,00.h tml [irs.gov]

  • Tele File (Score:4, Informative)

    by xWastedMindx ( 636296 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:07PM (#11300756) Homepage
    I use TeleFile to do my taxes. I call a 1-800 number and it's free.

    • Re:Tele File (Score:3, Interesting)

      by djward ( 251728 )
      Some states (VA for example) have phased out telefile, citing increased interest in e-filing. Of course, VA allows you to file for free straight on the state revenue service's website; too much to ask from the IRS. Protecting their partners, indeed.

  • Being Danish, the government knows everything (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sunbeam60 ( 653344 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:08PM (#11300764)
    All my earnings are reported, all my tax breaks pre-calculculated, interest reported by the banks. Only thing I have to add are tax deductible donations like Red Cross stuff.

    Takes me about 15 seconds to do my taxes.

    I have NO privacy in my life, but it sure is easy.

    • Being US, the government knows everything (Score:5, Insightful)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:57PM (#11301372) Homepage Journal
      As a US citizen, I can say the same things.

      All my earnings are reported, all my tax breaks pre-calculculated, interest reported by the banks. Only thing I have to add are tax deductible donations like Red Cross stuff.

      It could Take me about 15 seconds to do my taxes.

      I have NO privacy in my life, but it is not easy.

      Really, Uncle Sam gets reports from everyone and "voluntary compliance" is a fiction. Even charities have forms to fill out.

      My wife thinks they should have a web site that has the forms filled out and a little button, "I agree" or "make changes". The I agree button would take all of no seconds to push and Uncle Sam knows where my money is, so the next screen should present payment options. Make changes should let you enter things they might not know about, which would be rare, or let you file a complaint that a human being actually has to look at.

      • Re:Being US, the government knows everything (Score:4, Interesting)

        by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:18AM (#11301799) Journal
        If you are a employee I guess what you say applies quite well here in the U.S. But, for me, as a self-employed businessman with my fingers in numerous pies, my taxes are anything but.

        Being in business for myself means there's a qualitative judgement for every expense: is it a "business expense"? I have numerous computers, one of which I spent 4 hours in the past year checking my email. Is the purchase of that computer a business expense?

        I travelled to the Bay this year, with my kids, to visit the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum. During this trip, I met with a potential client. Is this a business trip?

        I have many, many times in the past not deducted legitimate business expenses, and purposely paid additional taxes, to "raise" my income in order to qualify for loans when buying property. It's often advantageous to pay a few hundred or thousand to get a property, or qualify for funding for XYZ business loan.

        It's a routine - my accountant calls me as soon as he receives our tax stuff for the year and asks me: "More income, or lower taxes?".

        Heck, when times were hard, I've even counted borrowed money as income!

        I usually have about 100% flexibility - I usually have a 100% range (EG: $75,000 - $150,000 per year) in income I can claim depending on what I decide to call a "business expense".

        This year, I'm going for low taxes - my actual income has raised nicely this last year, and I have no particular ambitions to buy real estate. Thus, I want to deduct everything I can think of. I'd write off my kids' allowance this year if my accountant can cook up a justifiable way to do so. Given a simple, written agreement that they sign to "clean Dad's office weekly", I can do so.

        If preparing your taxes takes less than a week (by yourself or your book-keeper) you are a wage-slave, and I genuinely feel for you. There's a clear sense of purpose and control when you run your own business - it'd be damn hard to convince me I want a "boss"....

      • Re:Being US, the government knows everything (Score:4, Insightful)

        by infolib ( 618234 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:29AM (#11303508)
        My wife thinks they should have a web site that has the forms filled out and a little button, "I agree" or "make changes".

        It works like that in Denmark. When you get your tax form it has an account of taxes paid/due and a password for the tax department web site. If it's complete you won't have to lift a finger, if you have unreported income/deductions you can fill out the form through www, the phone (voice response) or simple snail mail. The privacy implications are staggering, but I try to keep the concerns confined to the back of my mind. Heh.

        Anyways, the NO PRIVACY is not completely true, there's privacy enough for lots of untaxed "black work". Ask any dane.

  • Just this once... (Score:5, Informative)

    by r_cerq ( 650776 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:08PM (#11300765)
    ... I can say "yay, we've got something better!"

    My little corner of Europe (Portugal) actually has a good e-tax delivery system: since last year, they have a Java application (which works beautifully in Linux, FreeBSD, and OSX) freely available for download on their site. It's as easy as:

    1) Download and run the app
    2) Fill the nice, easy-to-understand forms
    3) Hit the "Check" button, and if all goes well, "Calculate", and "Save".
    4) Get the resulting file, submit it through their website
    5) Profit!

    Zero cost, and very low margin for error. And the cherry on top is: e-submissions have a larger deadline than dead-tree submissions. After they validate everything on their end, you get an official-looking confirmation note in regular mail, and you're done.

    • That's really cool. Something like that would definitely be implementable over here for state tax returns. Maybe (especially in a state such as California, which is in a huge budgetary crisis) actually collecting the taxes they have at the current rate would mean, for instance, less cuts in services. I can't see it happening very soon on the federal level though. For one, the scale is just too vast, which is why there are so many 3rd parties involved. Second, when you buy Turbotax you're basically buying th

  • If the IRS is anything like the UK Inland Revenue (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BillsPetMonkey ( 654200 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:08PM (#11300768)
    Then it's probably a very cosy relationship between the tax accounting software companies and the Inland Revenue Service. They pay ahem ... "subscription charges" for the documentation and specifications, the tax accounting software companies get to call their software "fully IR/IRS compliant".

    Is it time to blow the whistle on the scam by asking for specs without the fees? Damn right it is. Will they listen? Not unless you can get some mainstream media behind you.
    • Surely these specs are releaseable under the ne Freedom of Information Act
      • Only if you can wade through the tonne (US:ton) of exemptions under the Act and persuade the Information Commissioner that there's a case for releasing them.

        Actually they're nothing to do with the 2005 FIA, neither the DPA 1998 as they affect a financial interest. Yep, if a company can claim to stake a financial interest in not releasing the informaiton it's exempt from the FIA and the DPA. Shocking isn't it?

      • Re:Freedom of Information Act (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:38PM (#11301242) Journal
        I don't know if it's related but...

        Some years ago Glen Roberts got hold of the IRS' manual for auditors under the FOIA and published it. (At the time he was running a newspaper and selling books, essentially all based on info he got via the FOIA or his experiences in getting it. It included a "how to" manual for using the FOIA.)

        The IRS got him enjoined from distributing the auditor's handbook. (And some agency also got him enjoined from distributing the FOIA "how to".)

        I think fallout from that episode ended up limiting how much stuff you could get from the IRS under the FOIA.
  • I think TaxAct [taxactonline.com] has a free online version. Probably only for those of you without any complex forms to fill out, but it's something at least.

  • Telefile or TaxAct (Score:4, Informative)

    by MCZapf ( 218870 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:20PM (#11300851)
    If your taxes are simple enough, just use Telefile (phone filing). They charge nothing for it. Forget Linux. Forget computers entirely!

    If your taxes are more complex maybe TaxAct will fit the bill. I've used TaxAct a few times, and they were OK. You can do everything on the web and download a finished PDF of the forms. The downside is that it's slow to do it that way. You can also download some software from them to save your data locally, but it's windows only.

  • Fiduciary Responsibility? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lydic ( 25054 )
    I've used Turbo Tax for years for a rather complex set of tax forms (A, C, F, and others). What I'm paying for is time savings, keeping the forms and calculations up to date (they are slightly different every year), and a guarantee. If TT screws up my calculations and I pay the wrong amount, Intuit has some responsibility. An OSS solution fir a once a year thing that changes significantly every year, and the failure (even minor calculation bugs) could cost you lots of money or in the worst case, jail tim

  • Even the French managed this! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pp ( 4753 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:23PM (#11300877)
    Living in France for a year in 2000-2001 I had to file for taxes there. They had this Java-based software (with instructions on using it on Linux) that did the trick. Well, I still had to use the paper output it generated, I think if you had Minitel or whatnot you could file online too. I was impressed :-)

    Here in Finland they know how much you earn anyway since your employer tells them, so they send you a "tax proposal", which is correct for "normal" people and they don't have to do anything other than possibly pay more/get a refund if the deductions their employer made weren't accurate. Anything special (like profits made from sales of stocks and investment funds, assets etc.) you can, depending on your bank, print out the correct forms online which takes a few minutes, return those and that's it. Of course it can get complicated here too, but I manage in less then an hour :-)
  • First of all, who cares about filing online? If you're chronically late or obessive about filing right away, I suppose online filing is something you can't do without. However, I don't mind mailing my forms.

    H&R Block TaxCut Standard cost me $15 at the store and has a $5 rebate. I chose it because it isn't TurboTax (I hate Intuit because of previous Quickbooks and TurboTax fiascos). TaxCut Standard doesn't do free e-filing, but it does take a lot of reading and analysis out of taxes. Yes, I have t

  • One of the benefits of TurboTax is that if there's a mistake that doesn't involve inputing the wrong numbers, TT will be liable and will pay the difference. So if there's an addition error somewhere, they pay not you.

  • To hell with the IRS (Score:3, Funny)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:29PM (#11300908) Homepage Journal
    They are not constitutionally legal anyway..

    Just send them a packet of ice tea this April... See if they figure it out.
    • I don't like the IRS either, but the 16th amendment kind of disagrees with you.
    • Yeah I like the original article put that "How will you be paying your taxes this year?"

      My solution is free and I'll give you the source.

      Tell the IRS to kiss your ass. /hears a noise at the door.

      Shit, I knew I should have posted AC.
    • "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration." (emphasis added) How is an agency tasked with collecting revenue under a clear and broad constitutional mandate not constitutional?

      If you don't like it, get your Congressman or Senator to introduce a bill to repeal the 16th Amendment.

    • Just send them a packet of ice tea this April... See if they figure it out.

      Considering that the Boston Tea Party likely fits the FBI definition of a terrorist act, that may not be such a good idea.

  • Seriously. The IRS really needs to fund a cross-platform open source solution. One that doesn't require you give business to any particular company.

    Could be done in Java.

    Or perhaps (soon) using XULRunner.... XUL frontend, JS coded... take advantage of mozilla's cross platform capabilities and webservices functionality. Could even in theory be a Firefox extension!

    At a minimum, the IRS should be providing kiosk's for taxes. Diskless monitors/motherboards/keyboards.. Stripped down linux with Firefox...

  • Turbo Tax Web and privacy issues (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Last year I did my taxes using Turbo Tax Web [myturbotax.com]. Because I no longer live in the US (and I am not a resident/citizen either), I will not have to file US taxes in the future.

    Therefore, I requested to Turbo Tax to remove my user account, which contains a big deal of personal and financial information about me. They simply refuse to do that, as they say they need to keep my information on file.

    This is something I do not like, so I just thought I would warn potential Turbo Tax Web [myturbotax.com] users about this privacy issu

  • There is a big difference between what these companies are doing. Some have advanced services that analyze your return and ask you questions to get you a bigger return, and others just provide a field-for-field copy of the 1040 form that they charge for you to send to the IRS. I'm sure the IRS operates cheaper if its done electronically, so they should take the savings and offer their own free-file service (instead of having to wade through a sea of "upgrade to xxxxxx for $29.95" offers when you try to fill
  • Try getting your returns after the tax season. You can't. So if you print out copies but they are lost/destroyed, you're basically fucked. Happened to me this last year.. now I'm going to get to re-file Federal. Fortunately I don't owe anything.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @09:51PM (#11301008)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Taxes? Huh! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Yartrebo ( 690383 )
      What pisses me off more is buying an item that is labelled as .99 dollars, and ending up with almost a dollar in little coins. If prices had to be with taxes included, I'm sure a lot of the .99 cents would become .92 dollar or whatever would arrive at .99 dollars after tax.

    • Re:Taxes? Huh! (Score:5, Informative)

      by demaria ( 122790 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:19PM (#11301143) Homepage
      There are some places, mostly fast or quick service food, that include taxes in the price. Businesses won't go for it because then the product looks more expensive. Deception in numbers.

      Taxes are automatically taken out of the paychecks of all but self employed people in the US. The problem is that an employer can't take out the exact amount from your paycheck because we don't have flat tax brackets, and have tax deductions. A part time job in addition to your main one may bump you up to a higher tax bracket. Your employer won't know how many dollars you deducted in mortgage interest, student loan interest, medical expenses and so forth. Most middle class and poor people either get a refund or end up paying a small amount at tax time.

      If we had a flat tax or got rid of deductions, then the need to file would be almost nonexistent.

    • Re:Taxes? Huh! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bokmann ( 323771 )
      My employer does take out the appropriate amount of taxes, based on a 'witholding' form I fill out, but:

      my employer does not know how much interest I paid on tax deductible loans.

      My employer does not know how much money I gave to charities this year.

      My employer does not know how much I spent on medical expenses (which are deductible)

      MY employer does not know how much money I made or lost in investments this year.

      And I prefer to keep it that way.

      Sales taxes in the U.S. are incredibly complicated. They

    • Re:Taxes? Huh! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Duncan3 ( 10537 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @11:18PM (#11301495) Homepage
      Well you see, over here we have loopholes. Deductions and things.

      It means anyone with any real money, brains, or just a compitent accountant, doesn't have to pay any taxes at all. It's a great system, and it works.

      Your system is all "fair" and we don't take kindly to that over here in the USA.

    • Re:Taxes? Huh! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by velo_mike ( 666386 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @11:23PM (#11301510)
      Here in Ireland (and in the rest of the EU) your tax is automatically taken out of your paycheck and you don't need to worry about filling in tax returns every year unless you run a business It seems bizarre to me (and the 350 million other Europeans) that all you American folk still have to fill in your own tax returns; surely our way is better?

      Huh? Last time I checked France was a huge part of the EU and while it may seem bizarre to you and your 4 million countryment, I filed just as cryptic tax returns for them over the last 3 years. Guess what, they withhold for Social Security but not Income tax, meaning I wrote a bloody huge check four times every year to pay the tax man.

      As far as "your way being better", I'd much rather have everyone write a check to the government every year, maybe that would finally spur the revolution we need. When you don't see it, except as a digit on a check, the tax seems reasonable. Let people write a check for 20% of their earnings and see how fast fiscal conservatives get elected.

      While I'm at it, every time I'm in the US something I get really pissed off at is that shops are allowed to advertise a basic tax-exclusive price on goods. Here in the EU it's law that shops have to advertise a VAT-inclusive tax so that when you get to the counter you pay the advertised price, not the price plus 10-20% sales tax. How do you guys put up with that?

      How do you put up with paying a 20% tax, in addition to confiscatory rates for social security, income, and property tax? Again, if it were buried in the price, I'm sure we'd gladly pay but since it's obvious, it helps keep government spending down.

  • A SOLUTION: Open Tax Solver! (Score:5, Informative)

    by foobar01 ( 675266 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:33PM (#11301208) Homepage
    Some googling found me a program called Open Tax Solver [sourceforge.net]. I haven't yet tried it, so I can't really say how good it is.

    A version for this years US Form 1040 has apparently just been uploaded.

  • I don't expect one (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cookiepus ( 154655 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:47PM (#11301305) Homepage
    I don't expect there to be a free Turbo Tax / Tax Cut equivalent. The idea of free software, as I understand it, anyway, is you make a program that you use, and you just give it to others because you think they may find it helpful.

    This cannot happen with tax software. If you understand the tax code thoroughly, you're going to easily know exactly which forms to fill out in a specific year. And you would be an accountant, not a programmer.

    Basically a programmer isn't going to sit down and write a program to do their taxes because by the time they know how to do their taxes, why would they write a program to do it?

    This is why it takes a commercial entity to say "Ok, we have the know-how and the programmers to put this thing together, and we know people will buy it" -- god bless them because I've been using either Turbo Tax or Tax Cut for many of the past few years, and every time it has saved me money.

    Certainly these companies can probably increase their sales a bit by making Linux binaries of their software, but don't expect them to give away the source to something they've invested so much $ in and depend on sales of to make money.

    Coincidentally, I don't mean this post to be deragotary towards Open Source people, but am I wrong that no one is going to start a project for code that he himself isn't going to use?

    • Re:I don't expect one (Score:5, Interesting)

      by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:03AM (#11301722) Journal

      If you understand the tax code thoroughly, you're going to easily know exactly which forms to fill out in a specific year. And you would be an accountant, not a programmer.

      I know the tax codes thoroughly, and I'm a professional tax preparer and programmer.

      Coincidentally, I don't mean this post to be deragotary towards Open Source people, but am I wrong that no one is going to start a project for code that he himself isn't going to use?

      I started one [sourceforge.net] a few years ago, when I had a lot more time on my hands (of course my intention was to be able to use it, but as it turns out I just buy my e-file software for now, it's cheaper than writing the software myself). I abandoned it, largely because I suck at writing GUIs (it was basically my first attempt at using GTK). If a few people want to help me try again, I'm sure we could get something done in time for 2005s taxes (even if it's just the 1040-EZ, it'll generate enough interest to move forward). The [irs.gov] specs [irs.gov] are [irs.gov] out there, but the work is tedious. If you're in, contact me at taxman@inbox.org.

  • Incredible amount of work (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:55PM (#11301367)
    I happen to work for a company that makes tax software. It's a ton of work. A tax analyst (typically a CPA) and programmer team will typically have between 2 and 4 states, plus there is a team of a dozen or so that spend full time all getting approved forms (the forms must be very, very precise since they are usually optically scanned). There is a team of a dozen or so doing underlying programming for the system in general. The federal system has a half dozen people dealing with it specifically. All these people are doing this full time.
    This is not even mentioning the fact that we have a lot of integrated accounting systems that interface with it, because those don't interest you.

    If you're implying that some community should do this, I just don't see how it can happen. The knowledge is quite specialized and a ton of work is needed on a recurring basis. A LOT of testing must be done. People probably will not be willing to use a system unless there's some liability on the part of the authors.

    If you're saying that the government should provide the software, good luck. The states are all WOEFULLY understaffed; with the budget cuts in the last few years, many states have had their taxing agencies practically decimated. Most lost a lot of staff, some lost most of theirs. The remaining staff is hideously overworked, and there's practically zero programmer time available.

    What's the incentive for the government to push for something like this? There are already good products on the market, and they don't have to lift a finger to do it. If they did go thorough all that work, they'd be taking business away from companies, and they'd be taking on liability themselves for incorrect programming.

  • www.taxact.com (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dr. Blue ( 63477 ) on Saturday January 08, 2005 @10:57PM (#11301374)
    Check out TaxACT. The basic "fill in the forms" version is free -- you print the resulting forms and mail them in, and it doesn't cost you anything. You can e-file for $7.95. No, it's not free, but come on -- under $8? You can barely see a movie for that these days.

    The deluxe edition is only $9.95, and it is more thorough if you have things that can give you tax breaks. I'm doing the deluxe version this year, but did the standard one last year -- I started out thinking I'd print and just do it for free, but then realized that the convenience of e-file for $8 really can't be beat...

    Since it's web-based, it works fine from Linux. One problem I had (and I've had with another web site as well): for some bizarre reason, the first screen, with the user agreement, looked entirely blank -- it was really just white text rendered on a white background. Strange. It came up fine in konqueror and firefox though, and once you get past that first screen everything seems to work fine in Mozilla (it did force me to install Firefox though, which is actually a good thing).

    Anyway, sorry to sound like an ad, but I like it, and I like that I can use it under Linux. It gives my sense of privacy a bit of the willies, but I think you're pretty well protected by law as far as that goes...

    • Last year, the on-line TaxACT was one of the few IRS Free filing options that my family qualified for. I did federal there for free (including the filing) and paid some very small fee ~$10? for the state version and filing (with all the info automatically transfered from the federal form). I plan to try it again this year and hope they still have my info on file making it even easier.

  • Forget "online", forget software... (Score:3, Informative)

    by hacker ( 14635 ) <hacker@gnu-designs.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:01AM (#11301708)

    Hire a CPA. Seriously . They're going to find a LOT more than a little "questionairre" is going to find by asking you questions.

    A highly-skilled CPA (i.e. one who works with technology people) will be able to find places where you can deduct expenditures that your own Intuit and other software can't possibly take into account.

    Use your DSL line for sending business emails? That's deductable as a business expense. Power to keep the cable modem and WAP running? Also deductable.

    Accept PayPal payments for your Free Software work? That's not income, its a Gift, and deductable. There's a lot more where these come from. Most of them aren't going to be asked on any sort of tax software.

    We just finished a website [davidehesscpa.com] for a local CPA here in Norwich, CT. and he's really skilled in these and other areas.

    Definately check out your local CPA, before you head into H&R Block or online for some question-and-answer forms and software.

    It'll pay for itself in the first year's return. TRUST ME.

  • The Way Things Actually Are (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Grech ( 106925 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:29AM (#11301840) Homepage
    Disclaimer: I work for the IRS, in BMF Adjustments. I am not employed by you as a tax professional. This is not tax advice.

    That out of the way, there have been two big assertions made about the way e-file works, with varying degrees of veracity. I will address them each in turn.

    Assertion 1.The IRS is prohibited by law from offering a free efile package (either web-based or PC based)

    Sort of [irs.gov]: This is a decision that is more or less up to Messers Bush and Snow, not Everson. In general, the US goverment doesn't like to compete against private industry based on two predictions about the goverment product:

    • It would suck at first.
    • Everyone would use it anyway, and so it would suck forever.

    Assertion 2.Lobbyists have kept a Free and Open solution from being offered by keeping the specifications secret and only allowing evil corporations to know how to submit returns.

    False: The steps and specs are carefully hidden away in the brightly colored Pub 3112 [irs.gov](pdf) and others, such as the equally shiny Pub 1345 [irs.gov] (pdf)(The actual specs for the 1040 are in the dead-tree-only Pub 1346)

    Exercise for the reader:

    1. Get some friends together and write a tax preparation package in whatever language and whatever license you want (No extra credit given for ironically titled packages written in Malbolge or Brainf--- and distributed under the new X11 License). Found an LLC under the laws of your state. File Forms 8832 and 2553 with the IRS to be recognized as a Subchapter S Corporation (as a measure to avoid the hassles and shared liabilities of being a partnership).
    2. Figure out the mysterious Step 2 (Hint: Getting recognized as an ERO, and coming up with a business model are likely involved)
    3. Profit!
    ----

    Note: If you have an unwavering faith in the idea that the IRS is evil, then you misunderstand. The IRS is a bureau. As a whole, the Service has absolutely no emotional investment in being either kind or unkind to the taxpayer. Everything the IRS does is prescribed in 26 USC by the Congress. If the law says charge a penalty, we charge it. If the law says grant credit interest on late refunds, we grant it. If the law required that each US Citizen send us a chicken in lieu of a 1040 (it doesn't), then we'd collect 'em. All the same to us.

  • So how will I be doing this year's taxes? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @12:54AM (#11301967)

    So how will you be doing this year's taxes?

    I won't. Instead, I'll pay x hundred $ for a kick-ass CPA, like I always do, who already forgot more about the tax laws than I'd ever want to know, who can handle my stock options and separate sole proprietorship and charitable contributions and new house interest and the fact that I just got married but didn't change my withholding . . .

    I've come out in the black since I started using to my CPA, and I'll trade money for time any day.

  • Wrong question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by slam smith ( 61863 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @03:31AM (#11302476) Homepage
    You're asking the wrong question. Better questions are: Why do you have to file tax returns at all? Why is our tax system so complicated? Why does it cost so much to comply tax code and regulations?

    Last year I spent hours crunching through my taxes using turbo tax. I tried really hard to get it all right, but in the end, I'm not honestly 100% sure that I did. Well I think the answer is here at fairtax.org [fairtax.org]. Basically it all comes down to 3 words "National Sales Tax". Then the linux software problem goes away

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