Cell Phone Service as High Speed Internet Link? 461
Gorm the DBA asks: "I live out in the boonies, where Cable is just another word for what the telegraph guy delivers and the nearest Central Office is over 27,000 feet away, so DSL is at best a (fat) Pipe Dream, and dialup speeds top out at 17,700baud on a good day. Currently we have satellite internet via DirecWay, but it's expensive ($60/month) and VPNlike applications are not supported, never mind gaming (high latency), which reduces it's utility dramatically. At the same time, I've been looking at getting a new cell phone. I see that Sprint, Cingular, and others all have cards that you can plug into your computer and use the cellular network to get data. The claim is 'wireless online surfing as fast as DSL'. I've confirmed I'm in the coverage areas, but is this really as good as they're making it sound? It's pricey ($79.99/month, plus the cost of the card), but it would be portable as well. Does anybody have experience with this sort of technology? Is it ready for prime time? Does it really work? Is it worth it? Is the internet access real, or a filtered 'You get what we want you to get' sort of thing?"
Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
I've had to explain this to angry executives who couldn't dial in from the cottage/ski hill/resort so many times, I sound like a broken record. If you're in an area where the wired signal is awful, you can basically rest assured the wireless signal quality will be much worse. Wireless is by nature a less reliable medium, because it's passing through air and trees and walls -- as opposed to copper. If you're located somewhere so far from civilization that the wired infrastructure can't handle basic data, then neither will wireless. Don't believe the sales people. :\
Possible exception: your dad's the farmer who gave up part of his field for a cel phone tower. But even then don't bet on it.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
Chances are, that you'll have great phone service in places where there are no land lines.
Many third world countries which never had land lines is skipping that step and going directly for wireless.
At least this is what I've heard.
I'd be glad if anyone could substantiate or refute this.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2, Informative)
Its easiar to put up a tower then it is to string miles of conductor.
Hell, 90% the people my age at work don't have land lines, they have cellphones.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:4, Interesting)
In many cases, this is because of regulatory reasons, and not technical/logistical ones. Cellular providers can move more quickly than a bureaucratically-entrenched state-monopoly PTT.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:4, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Agreed: Don't Do It! (Score:4, Informative)
And just like satellite, you have high latency. Sprint Vision will give you ping times that skip from 400ms to over 1000ms. Currently, there are no providers offering low latency broadband over cellular that I know of. I remember reading about a trial for a very small area that was supposed to begin soon somwhere in North Carolina I think, but as I recall, it would involve a forklift upgrade to get nationwide coverage.
For years to come, broadband over cellular will not be low latency for rural areas. Those are usually the last to get upgraded towers. Naturally, infrastructure upgrades happen where the customers are first.
fixed wireless rocks (Score:2)
The best part is that I opened a support ticket to have reverse dns set up for my static ip, and it was dealt with in under an hour.
Feel free to ping me at graha dot ms at graha dot ms if you want more info
Re:fixed wireless rocks (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
I was with Verizon for a long time due to their excellent coverage, but my lust for a Treo 650 finally got the better of me, and Sprint charges me less for 400 voice minutes plus unlimited data than Verizon wanted for JUST the data.
When I heard about the $5.00 no roaming option, I switched to Sprint the same day.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
I believe my best bet is to simply wait until someone
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2)
Try it and go muni if it doesn't work (Score:2)
Grab a T1 on a high spot and beam everyone a m0n0wall [m0n0.ch] traffic-shaped WiFi connection. If you can get a few people together, the cost could be reasonable. You might even be able to talk the "village" into a muni-wifi effort and then bea
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
Not entirerly true. For years, the majority of AT&T's long distance network backbone (Long Lines) was wireless. When old timers refer to the "Bell standard", they're referring to a rock-solid telephone network that actually ran mostly over microwave long-distance transmission facilities. When engineered in point-to-point configurations where each endpoint is a known quantity, wireless (aka microwave) has nearly identical reliability to modern fiber transmission systems.
Point-multipoint wireless (e.g. cellular last-mile) is a totally different animal in that you have your subscriber endpoint that is often mobile and nearly always at locations you have never engineered for. Your cell engineering becomes an estimate for coverage rather than actual end-to-end engineering, and subsequently has issues with fade and interference from objects, terrain, etc.
That said, if you're looking for reliable last-mile rural service, consider fixed wireless. Properly engineered, it will match any cable or fiber system.
*scoove*
Probably not... (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, I understand that might not be an option. I spent the late 80's and early 90's at Loring Air Force Base, in northern Maine. Most of the POP's for the services I used were in southern Maine. I spent obscene a
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
It's worth mentioning that this is exactly the reason why the carriers frown on using your phone as a modem for your laptop. Checking a few e-mails on a minuscule cell phone screen doesn't tie those extra channels up for very long, but once you connect it to a computer for some "real" 'net activity, you're tying up some resources...
This is why the "unlimited" data plans for, say, a Treo are so muc
2nd hand data point (Score:2)
Depends (Score:2)
However, let's take Sprint for example. They offer CDMA 1xRTT service in just about their entire coverage area, which tops out at a theoretical maximum of 144 kbps. I've used this service. It works pretty well, at higher than dialup speeds, 80-100 kbps, but the latency continues to be just as bad, or worse than dialup, as
Re:Depends (Score:2)
High Gain Wireless Antenna? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:High Gain Wireless Antenna? (Score:2)
If there's no broadband in the area what may I ask will the hotspot be connected to?
Re:High Gain Wireless Antenna? (Score:2)
Go halves in it with them, drop in a DIY wireless link for a couple of hundred bucks, and you're good to go.
(Line of sight permitting, of course)
Re:High Gain Wireless Antenna? (Score:2)
also afaict there are a lot of places where T1s are availble but more reasonablly priced broadband options aren't. so if there is a buisness who don't care about wireless security around..... or alternative you get together and share the cost of a T1 line.
Re:High Gain Wireless Antenna? (Score:2)
probably not worth it (Score:4, Funny)
1. "Not all protocols are supported". No further eludication. Good luck finding somebody who knows if ssh or whatever you might realize you need in the future is supported.
2. "No bulk downloading JPEGS". I *guess* maybe they are saying they don't want you to download pr0n with their service, but I can think of legitimate reasons for wanting to do that, such as mirroring web sites for personal use. (terraserver anyone?
Re:probably not worth it (Score:2)
Personally, I can't think of a more legitimate use for wget than pr0n.
Might not need the card... (Score:2)
Re:Might not need the card... (Score:2)
I don't remember where I saw it, but there was a chart of the different data rates available, and the cards had 2-3 times the maximum throughput as the phones, simply because the phones (while advertising that they can do "1X digital data" or GSM) can't use the higher data rates. It's really hard to get that information normally, too. They don't really want y
I use it. (Score:5, Informative)
The bandwidth is limited by two things: Network throughput and network load. I believe that the fastest (non-major-city) cell phones go up to 155kbps (I get 15.2 max kBps.) I'm using Sprint because, when I researched it a year ago, they and Verizon had the fastest networks for this sort of thing. Network load just means that if there are lots of people on the same tower as you, your connection will not run at full speed. I've rarely seen that happen with mine.
Run a search on different types of cell networks and make sure you have a signal with a fast one. I used to use Nextel, and it was like 1/5 the speed of dialup with 1000msec latency and downtime. That was on the old analog network.
Also, you know you can buy powered signal boosters for every type of signal? If you're in the boonies and want more signal, you might get one of those.
Email me if you want, put slashdot into the subject
Re:I use it. (Score:2)
- Your very own dynamic IP
- No ports blocked
- Notification of calls coming in (well, on my phone)
- No time limitation
However, AFAIK Sprint doesn't offer any service plan like Verizon does; with Sprint, you buy a USB cord (get one that also charges the phone from USB) from a 3rd party and use it, and they don't mind as long as you're not a bandwidth hog (this is what I heard from the forums I searched, and it rings true with me.)
(Mo
Try a data cable (Score:2)
Re:Try a data cable (Score:2)
Has that changed?
We use aircards in cellular routers (Score:3, Informative)
Cellular internet (Score:2)
Not horrible, but.... (Score:5, Informative)
Worked fine for e-mail and casual web browsing, but if you're interested in gaming, keep looking.
Its ok.... (Score:5, Informative)
See if you can get a Wireless connect built (Score:2, Interesting)
Verizon and soon Sprint (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Verizon and soon Sprint (Score:2)
Makes it much easier to go in and do a presentation when he doesn't need to beg for a network/internet connection too.
Can't really speak to specific rural areas, but coverage maps should help with basic availability, though not actual speed.
Options... Options... Options... wifi? (Score:5, Informative)
If the latency for the DirecDish is an issue for you, then the latency from the celphone wireless will likewise be an issue.
I've linked my PDA and my laptop to my celphone via USB, IR, and bluetooth. I've tried it with 3G(1x) via SprintPCS(vision) and Cingular GPRS/EDGE.
All I can say is that on a celphone, you expect there to be delays. It is, afterall, a low-processing power device. On the laptop, websurfing is "okay".
With SprintPCS's vision plan, I found that I got a pretty good xfer rate of around 60kilobits per second to around 120 kilbits per second. Yes, that is kiloBITS. So, compared to the poster's dial-up speeds, that is much better. Note, though, that this is near a cel-tower with good reception.
In poor reception areas, you can expect around 9.6kilobits per second to around 14.4 kilobits per second.
If that's your only option, then it isn't a bad way to go. The highest speed you will be able to achieve is around 144 kilobits/second with the current generation of tech. This should grow to around 384kilobits per second as more of the next-gen tech arrives, but it still isn't what it should be. SprintPCS Vision does some kind of caching and image compressing, so you will get better rates, but lower quality images for web pages.
With Cingular, GPRS gives you 14.4kilbit/sec dial-up connection. With EDGE, you are supposed to be able to get 384 kilobits/second. I've experienced issues where given a good signal, you will still get less than admirable rates due to contention with other folk and with other voice usage of the network.
Verizon has their EVDO which is promising 1.5mbit/second capabilities(wireless DSL, basically). Haven't used them yet, but people who have used them say they are pretty good. They have pretty good coverage as well, so that might be an option. Without EVDO, you are basically dealing with the normal "wireless dialup" speeds as noted above.
If you are thinking of doing gaming, voip, etc... look elsewhere. For email, web surfing, and maybe newsgroups... ie, non-time sensitive applications, then wireless connectivity could be a good fit.
Another option is perhaps a long-distance 802.11b/g link with a neighbor. Ie, find someone who actually has a chance of getting good service. Work out an agreement with them and then have them setup a line-of-sight wireless (wifi) link to your place.
You become dependant on them for connectivity and possibly end up investing more in hardware, but you will have much better bandwidth and much better latency for games/voip/etc.
Re:Options... Options... Options... wifi? (Score:2)
get some friends down the road towards the CO - Light a T1 (s/b $400/mo) at one of their homes. Score some cheap wifi gear then head down to the store and get some cans of Pringles and VOILA!
dont forget ISDN (Score:3, Insightful)
>Work out an agreement with them and then have them setup a line-of-sight wireless (wifi) link to your place.
Err, how practical is this? Sure its possible, but if the AP is a couple miles away youre going to have to pay for some professional radio people to point these things at each other
No latency with cell (Score:2)
Sprint - 230.3kbps (Score:2, Informative)
I have the service (Score:2, Informative)
Things are looking up. More hi-speed areas are coming - but they are major met
Not in Duluth, Minnesota (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not in Duluth, Minnesota (Score:2)
Forget gaming and VPN (Score:3, Informative)
It's got horrible latency, though, so you can forget gaming. Just to test, I fired up counterstrike to test, and I get latencies between 1-3k, the same as in other games I tested.
Now, this was the low speed service, but I doubt the high speed service has better latency. However, for $5 a month, it was an awesome internet connection for a mobile home.
Terms of service prohibit use of wireless as wired (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Terms of service prohibit use of wireless as wi (Score:2)
Sprint "Vision" (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes this service might be the right choice for your main IP connection, if you don't have DSL or CATV options, but the main reason for IP over cellphone technology is mobility.
Re:Sprint "Vision" (Score:2)
http://www.treocentral.com/content/FAQ/38.htm [treocentral.com]
Cingular works (Score:2, Informative)
Verizon & Audiovox XV6600 experiences (Score:2)
My experience
The service works very well and has been as reliable as my cellular voice calls. I forget it's there or that it's anything revolutionary, which is a good sign of it's usability. Latency is high, but it's just a little annoying in practice; I haven't tried anything interactive like chat, but some people claim to have used VOIP and iChat video conferencing with great success
Re:Verizon & Audiovox XV6600 experiences (Score:2)
The service that I get here in Aus, I get about 100KB/sec downstream when my signal on an EVDO base is good. Latency isn't too bad, when I have a VPN tunnel up
How Verizon's Service Works (Score:2)
Verizon has two classes of available service. You can use a single PC-CARD adapter that will auto-switch depending on which service is available to you. There is even another
If you are lucky enough to be in a Verizon EVDO "Broadband" access area, you can expect 2 Megabits "peak" downstream speed. Not sure what the peak upstream spee
Verizon Wireless Broadband (Score:2)
Depends... (Score:2)
Sprints Are Fast, But Short (Score:2)
Re:Sprints Are Fast, But Short (Score:2)
That's one thing I've been curious about ever since I got my Treo 650: What's the point of having the nice DAC when the speaker is such a worthless piece of shit? Sure, I could carry headphones with me, but if I'm having to carry extra stuff, why not just throw my iPod in the bag, too?
Re:Sprints Are Fast, But Short (Score:2)
This stuff will all come together with both EV-DO (Verizon has it now in NYC
Re:Sprints Are Fast, But Short (Score:2)
But, I guess I could see where using the Treo as a music source could come in handy if I wasn't chained to this damn laptop bag 24
Re:Sprints Are Fast, But Short (Score:2)
Try before you buy (Score:2)
Both Sprint and Verizon have money-back trial periods of a week or two. Why not take one for a test drive and see if it meets your needs?
There's coverage and then there's coverage... (Score:2)
Latency is a problem though. I'm seeing 150 ms (or higher) average latencies on the first hop.
I've talked to several CDMA engineers who said there's nothing inherent to CDMA that would account for that high of a latency. Each (independently) said it must be how Verizon has configured their IP network.
I think
Make sure the cards can downstep (Score:2)
I've used Verizon and Cingular (Score:5, Informative)
Back in November, I switched to the Verizon service with the PC5220 card. Mac OS X supports it natively with no extra software - I just had to input my phone number settings and it worked. For the first two months I settled for the slower 1xRTT service, which seemed to me to be about twice what I could get with dialup and was still better than what Cingular had been giving me. At the beginning of January, Verizon turned on EV/DO in the Boston area, which has generally been an excellent performer. Most everywhere I travel routinely for work is EV/DO enabled, and the card automatically uses it when it has a signal, otherwise it falls back to 1xRTT.
Service for the data-only cards is $80/month for unlimited use. No, you can't run servers with it, but you wouldn't want to. It's a real good option otherwise for a laptop user.
I have a client using the service with the Audiovox PocketPC phones - they love the always-on sync and the capabilities of the device, but they hate the phone itself and are switching to standalone phones for voice (they have two of the PocketPCs now).
baud and bps not always interchangeable. (Score:2)
Don't forget folks, baud and bps are not always interchangeable. In the old days when a single electrical change accounted for the communication of a single bit, you could use baud and bps interchangably. But in these modern times where a single electrical change can represent a communication of more than one bit, they are seperate.
56k MODEM's are still 2400 baud for example.
Take it to the EDGE (Score:2, Informative)
Get a UMTS/3G card (Score:2)
Sprint PCS little better than a 56k modem (Score:2)
I had the Sprint PCS data service with the Aircard 550. It was 50k - 70k second and it had ridiculous latency issues. I dropped the $80/mo cost, got a Samsung i500 cell phone/PDA, and using it as a CDMA modem is nearly as fast and the latency is much better.
I got an external antenna and pigtail for my aircard but I never used 'em - too disgusted with the service to sink the time into making that stuff go. If you find one you like you can add a small tower, external antenna, etc, and pump up your servi
Speed - OK. Latency - BAD (Score:3, Informative)
1xEV-DO has a peak throughput of a bit over a megabit. You'll see about half that or less realistically. EV-DO is only available in a handful of metropolitan areas right now.
Also, both EV-DO and RTT have very high latency. I recently talked to someone very familiar with the technology (works for a company that's developing what is basically 4G wireless), and apparently EV-DO has 300-400 ms latency.
WISP (Score:2, Informative)
Verizon LG VX6000, USB Cable, and Software = 140K (Score:5, Informative)
Being in the boonies, you might not be able to get the 1x network service. On the LG VX6000, you can tell by looking for the "1x" service icon that apperas whenever the 1x service is available.
The drawback to this, of course, is that your phone is your "modem", and must be connected to your computer during the Internet session; and you will not receive phone calls during your Internet session. So it's okay for periodic use, but may not be suitable for an always-on Internet.
In my uses, I was able to use SSH, SMTP, POP, HTTP/HTTPS, and AIM. So for my needs, it was effectively unfiltered. One thing that was annoying was the auto-idle-hangup that would kick in from time to time.
Also, for web-surfing, there is an accelerator software that you can run that would compress images at a (user selectable) higher compression to speed download times of web pages.
That said, are you sure you are so far off in the boonies that you can't find a wireless ISP? A good WiFi transceiver with the right antenna could easily give you 1 or 2 Mbps over many many miles...
Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular compared (Score:3, Informative)
Here are some nominal numbers for the technology that's been around for the past few years:
Cingular GPRS: 32-48 kbps
Sprint 1X CDMA: 80-120 kbps
Verizon 1X CDMA: 80-120 kbps
Of the newer crop of technologies that are coming out:
Cingular EDGE: 80-200 kbps
Sprint EV-DO: 400-700 kbps
Verizon EV-DO: 400-700 kbps
Of course, "your mileage may vary"... Cingular's EDGE service is more accessible than the other "new technologies" at this point because it's a simpler technology that really just allows your wireless device to combine multiple channels at once for higher speeds. Make sure your wireless card supports EDGE and that EDGE is available in your area before going with Cingular. (Plus their customer service is awful, but that's another story...)
Sprint and Verizon's EV-DO technology is currently available in 30-40 major cities, which doesn't sound like it will help you any but it may get to your area eventually. In the mean time, their 1X CDMA gives you better than dialup, so if you can be happy with ~120 kbps, this might work for you.
Most cellular companies give you 15 days to cancel service without paying any penalties, so I'd ask about availability of EDGE and EV-DO in your area, then pick one and try it. (Or pick both and try them.) Run some broadband speed tests (http://www.dslreports.com/stest [dslreports.com] and others) at various times of day and see what kind of speeds you're getting. If it's too slow, return it and get your money back, though you'll probably lose your activation fee and have to pay a prorated monthly bill.
Don't give up on DSL just yet... (Score:3, Informative)
Couple of years later, the local telco got smart and started installing curbside DSLAMs, called 'Stingers,' to serve areas that were more than optimal distance from the CO.
Stingers consist of a single high-speed copper or fiber link back to the central office (usually at least a T3 or its fiber equivalent) which is then split out into DSL pipes for however many subscribers they planned for.
They're wonderful inventions. My download speed went from an average of 256K (if I was lucky) to over 768K practically overnight, once they switched my pipe over to the curbside terminal. It's been utterly stable ever since, with only a brief outage caused by an extended neighborhood power failure (and my servers went down because of that same outage anyway).
My advice would be to bug the crap out of your local telco, and find out when they're going to install a few neighborhood DSLAMs.
Keep the peace(es).
Re:Cell internet is like the Force (Score:2)
But that aside, you may well need an external microwave antenna, if you're truly rural, to get this set up working reliably. It's true that a stock cell phone antenna is going to work poorly if you're far from the tower, but they do make powered signal boosters, intended for rural locations, you should look into what options are available... also, rain is going to cause difficulty with signal recepti
Re:Cell internet is like the Force (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. CDMA2000 1xRTT or EDGE both deliver around 80-150kbps in the real world, with gateway latencies in the 600ms range.
Even Qwest's crappy cheap DSL is 256kbps (~200kbps actually), and even with the crappy interleaving it's only around 35ms to the default gateway (~100ms to Google). That's considerably better in both bandwidth and latency then the cellular technologies.
Not to mention that even Qwest offers 1.5mbps
Re:Cell internet is like the Force (Score:2)
Maximum of 250-odd Kbit/s down, and 130 - 150 ms latency to servers with 30 ms by cable.
It's not as bad as you think, but it's not that good, either.
Re:Cell internet is like the Force (Score:2)
Re:The latency will kill you! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:WAP (Score:2)
Re:T-Mobile Internet Unlimited (Score:2)
Re:T-Mobile Internet Unlimited (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Finding out if others are in your bandwidth sho (Score:2)
Our T1 at the office costs us just a shade over $500 a month. Divided between 8 to 12 users, that wouldn't be too outrageous. I have more users than that on this T1, plus the office phone system (quite busy) is VOIP, and have never once felt the need for more bandwidth.
Add in some high end WiFi gear and a tall pole, and things just might work out.
Re:Finding out if others are in your bandwidth sho (Score:2)
That $500/month covers the T1, plus the DSL service at my house and the DSL at the owner's house.
Re:how about downloading speeds? (Score:2)
Re:how about downloading speeds? (Score:2)
Re:I'm in the same situation (Score:2)
To be honest, in your situation I'd probably go with the high speed wireless, buy a cheapass X86 box to run Windows on, the use ICS to get the Mac online.
If you have a good option for bandwidth and it's just a driver issue, that can be worked around. To me that would be much more palatable than putting up with the drawbacks of either satell
Re:I'm in the same situation (Score:2)
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
Not that I'll be using it very much, but I have a couple of business trips coming up and it would be nice to have a way access the network at the office in the event of an emergency without paying the $20 for 15 minutes that the hotel I'll be staying at charges.