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Pay vs. Happiness

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Sep 26, 2005 06:15 PM
from the but-i-want-both dept.
itri writes "A co-worker recently sent me and article about job burnout. Although it's a year old, the points seemed to resonate well with me. The nutshell of the article is that job burnout is caused by lack of the sense of accomplishment, working for a narcissistic boss, and a conflict between the employers and employee's values. Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?"
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  • by BWJones (18351) * on Monday September 26 2005, @06:16PM (#13654591) Homepage Journal
    With respect to your question, I have to say that you are really responsible for your own happiness and 90% of the employers out there do not really care about it. If they are smart, they would want happy employees, but as society moves more towards a service based economy with pre-produced products, there will be less craftsmanship around and less care for average employees as they can be quickly and easily replaced. So, your task is to find the niche that you can provide a well crafted product that those (like myself) will pay more for. I would say that if you are not happy, then change jobs or change careers or go back to school or start your own business.

    With respect to pay vs. happiness, its a continuum is it not? There are those that would sell their souls to make the monthly payment on their Mercedes. I personally find that repugnant as it goes against my punk DIY ethos, but to each their own. Some folks simply find the job as a means for money to do other things with their life while others enjoy what they do for a living. I personally like to surround myself with people smarter than I am, have a passion for what they do, and treat them well to keep them around. That way, everybody is happy and things get done.

    Incidently, I have three positions I am hiring for:

    1) Board certified neurologist willing to relocate.

    2) Board certified cardiologist willing to relocate.

    You never know, but there are MDs that patrol Slashdot on occasion, so, why not?

    3) Most importantly for this forum: A programmer. Can you program for OS X? Have Cocoa experience? Do you know IDL from RSI? If you answer yes to all three of the above questions, I have a job for you. I have my own stuff to keep me busy and happy so I won't be breathing down your neck. You even get to work from home or the lab, it's your choice, but if you are in the lab, you can have access to an incredibly extensive and diverse shared iTunes library and crank all you want. You can also have all the flexibility you want with the hours, I just want the code done within a reasonable amount of time. This is a contract position and you will find me most accommodating to work with.

    If the meetings I have with the VCs next week go well, I might be hiring programmers with scientific robotics experience. Stay tuned to the Slashdot journal which gets updates from my blog.

    • by BushCheney08 (917605) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:20PM (#13654617)
      but if you are in the lab, you can have access to an incredibly extensive and diverse shared iTunes library and crank all you want.

      Lots of tunes and all the crank I want? Sign me up!

      w
    • by The Bungi (221687) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Monday September 26 2005, @06:36PM (#13654749) Homepage
      Board certified neurologist willing to relocate.

      Good thing you're not in the IT industry...

      - "So, you're a neurologist?"
      - "Well, sorta. I play 'Operation' online all the time and I'm really good. I'm also halfway through the Wikipedia article on neurons. So... do I get the position?"

    • by rbochan (827946) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:39PM (#13654774) Homepage
      I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
    • by Alex P Keaton in da (882660) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:54PM (#13655199) Homepage
      Ugh- Way to say it- you are 100% for your own happiness.
      I had a bad job for a while (It involved high temperatures and getting shot at) and the only thing that I was upset about was not seeing my wife for a year.
      I would put up with a lot of cr#p at work for more money- Why? I have a wife and a daughter, and another kid on the way. I have a house payment, 2 car payments and retirement in 40 years to worry about.
      I would shovel sh&t all day if it meant that my family could have a higher standard of living.
      My guess is how people would answer the question "would you take better work conditions for less money" has a lot to do with age and responsibilities. If I didn't have 2 (soon to be 3) other human beings depending on me, I would be much more ammenable towards taking a pay cut for better work conditions.
      If you hate your job, you have a couple choices- You can look for a better job, or you can change your outlook. Here in Ohio, tech jobs aren't easlily available- I make a good living, but I am grateful to be employed. There are a ton of people out there with 100K and more degrees who are under and unemployed.
      Life isn't perfect- being an adult is hard.
      • by MSBob (307239) on Monday September 26 2005, @10:04PM (#13655801)
        OK. Time to challenge your assumptions. Do you really think your family will be happier because daddy is killing himself over so they can keep up the repayments on the plazma TV, or the second car? Do you think that when you draw your last breath you're going to exclaim "My dear God, I wish I had spent more time at the office!"?

        You can give your family soooo much more than a McMansion and two shiny cars in the driveway. Take them for a walk, teach your kids to throw the ball, play tennis, whatever... In time they'll come to appreciate it much more than sterilized existence in a suburban McHouse. I promise you, I guarantee you they'll appreciate the time with you much more than having marble countertops in the bathroom.

        The American society is driven by greed to the point of obsession. The change has to come from within. Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.

        • by sTalking_Goat (670565) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:37PM (#13654759) Homepage
          My Mother. After Law School, three law degrees, 18 odd years as a lawyer and five as a Judge. She suddenly quit and went to culinary school to become a pastry chef.

          Some people can be happy with just a big paycheck and extra letters after their name but mostly they are the minority.

          • by BWJones (18351) * on Monday September 26 2005, @06:38PM (#13654766) Homepage Journal
            Your mother is one of my new heros. Seriously.

            • by ikkonoishi (674762) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:21PM (#13655017) Journal
              Yeah the world can always use one less lawyer, and one more chef.
              • by Mr2cents (323101) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:55PM (#13655202)
                Well, I once knew a girl who wanted to become a lawyer so she could "buy a Porsche". We had something going, but when I heared that, it was an instant no-go. I might be a geek desperate for sex, but I'm not that desperate. She quit school a year later. It's not money that matters, it's passion.
                • by pyite (140350) on Monday September 26 2005, @09:06PM (#13655534)
                  It's not money that matters, it's passion.

                  This is very true. When I started engineering school, all freshmen had to take some orientation lectures to learn about the profession that is engineering, etc. After going over some starting salaries for engineers, the dean who was lecturing said in closing, "But, no matter what, knowing what you'll make after graduation is not enough to get you through it. I promise you that. If you're here for solely the money, you will not make it. You need to be here because you enjoy it."
                • by achesloc (697690) on Monday September 26 2005, @09:16PM (#13655589)
                  What if you are passionate about porsches. I happen to be.

                  What if you put yourself through a number of years of school so that you can do porsche club racing. It just happens to be an expensive hobby. I don't agree that you can dismiss the integration of money and passion so easily. Not everybody wants to make a lot of money so they can swing their dick around. Some people want to have certain experiences that require significant amounts of money.

                  What if you like to travel? What if you like sailing? What if you like giving money to charity?
                    • by walt-sjc (145127) on Tuesday September 27 2005, @07:27AM (#13657357)
                      I'm leary of the "give their children financial independance" part. We already have the older generation calling the younger generation "The Entitlement Generation" due to the fact that (in general) young adults seem to feel that they are "entitled" to high pay, less work, all the toys, etc.

                      It's not JUST the younger generation though. My sister-in-law STRONGLY feels that it's a parent's reponsibility to maximize their childrens inheritance, and vocally enough that her children are fully aware of it, and now expect it.

                      Me? I'm just the opposite. All a parent SHOULD do is make sure that their children have the education and capability to acheive their OWN financial independance. Anything the parents do beyond that is a "bonus".
                      Now maybe the child, with his education and drive to work hard, decides to go into a lower paying field to help people, such as becomming a teacher... Then that "bonus" allows them to do so without sacraficing their own future. But if the kid screws around, drops out of school, smokes a lot of pot or whatever, then that child get's NOTHING and deserves NOTHING.
              • by 1zenerdiode (777004) on Monday September 26 2005, @09:31PM (#13655683)
                Yeah, and it always helps if you've had 18 years of six-figure lawyer income to subsidize your cooking.
        • by drsquare (530038) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:58PM (#13655220)
          I can't change jobs because I've nowhere to go, I'm not qualified to do anything other than unskilled labour. I tried to get an education but I failed it, I'm not clever enough and can't afford it anyway. We're not all geniuses like you, sorry. Some of us have to do the soul-crushing grunt work so you can sit at your cushy office job reading Slashdot.

          I don't have kids, I can't afford them. I can't afford a house to live in that can accomodate kids, I can't afford to bring them up properly. I don't want to be a benefit scrounger either. Having children is for people richer than me, just something I'll have to do without.
        • by theblueprint (749157) on Monday September 26 2005, @08:39PM (#13655417)
          First, why don't you change jobs? Second, why don't you get an education so you can change jobs.

          He's got a point there. I too worked in a factory, and it sucked. I understand that it's hard work and lame pay, but I worked my butt off, moved up the ladder, and now I'm the production manager. I have an office, and it's a decent-paying white collar job.

          An acquantiance of mine asked me for a job. I offered him one in the factory. He was instanly dismissive, despite the fact he has NO education, and no work record to incdicate that he would last more than the first paycheck. He complained that he just "needs someone to give him a sweet job". He was less than pleased when I told him that you have to earn those.

          I'm not implying anthing negative about the gp, but people don't do things for you. That's the "harsh realistic" truth.

          • by jp10558 (748604) on Monday September 26 2005, @11:21PM (#13656097)
            I've seen this post before, and I really think it's a troll. I mean, either that or you seriously need counsoling.

            Anyway, I'm a college graduate, and I'll give you some advice from the Career development centers and State Job agencies I've dealt with. Not saying they work, but might be worth a try.

            The basic idea is twofold. 1) pick something you want to do more than factory work. Generalize. Maybe you want to be in management, maybe you want to be in IT, maybe you want to be a chef.

            Once you've picked what you want to do - lie. Not really, but get damned close.

            Say you want to get into management. First, talk about how you are reliable - you come into work every day, you meet quotas, you've suggested improvements in processes on the factory floor.

            Second, talk about your other skills - you think you don't have any, but really, you do. Talk about your understanding of office applications - you can obviously use a PC well enough to get online and post to slashdot. You can spin that into using Word, and IE and internet apps.

            Then, come up with a plan to get additional skills. Lots can be done online for free, more can be done at seminars and your local employeement office.

            With your ability to POST ON SLASHDOT, you can likely leverage that skillset to get into an office - likely doing clerical work.

            Anyway, none of this is easy, you do have to work. You have to be willing to stretch the truth quite a bit, and be willing to learn new things - fast!

            Many skills are non-obvious, heck, just working for a few years in a factory ought to put you in a position to try and jump to foreman or the like - maybe in a different company though. Always look for openings one step up from where you are in local competitiors.
        • Re:Nice Try... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bigman2003 (671309) on Monday September 26 2005, @08:02PM (#13655238) Homepage
          I'm glad you used the modifier 'most.'

          Many programming jobs out there are basically for monkeys. Very little decision making, just a lot of coding.

          A lot of us on the other hand get involved with the business aspect of what we do. The 'why's, the 'how's...all of that. When the program manager or programmer is part of the decision making team, it becomes a very skilled and valuable position.

          And by the time you reach that level, you don't care about the language you use, the editor you use, the platform, or anything else. You just use whatever will work for the project.
  • Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Captain Scurvy (818996) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:19PM (#13654611) Homepage
    Thoreau said, "A man is only as rich as the number of things he can let alone." Who cares how much money you make if you're so swamped you can't enjoy it? I am considering a career change for this very reason. Life's too flipping short.
    • Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Funny)

      by mattbee (17533) <matthew@bytemark.co.uk> on Monday September 26 2005, @07:46PM (#13655147) Homepage
      I'll see your quote and raise you another quote by actor Michael Caine: "The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them".
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dada21 (163177) * <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Monday September 26 2005, @06:57PM (#13654874) Homepage Journal
        Ah, but money in this case has two defining factors:

        1. Is it liquid cash available to you, debt free?
        2. Do you have any debt burdens that will reduce your income in the future?

        I believe having debt is a key element in job burn out, as it is a key element that scares people into thinking they need their current job.

        Even saving just 10% of your gross income should reduce your stress levels a thousand-fold. And give your wife even more reasons to have sex with you :)
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by The Good Reverend (84440) <michael@nOSPAm.michris.com> on Monday September 26 2005, @07:10PM (#13654942) Homepage Journal
        Money is undoubtedly important.

        But it's not everything.

        I think the point of the article and many of the posts here is that we've been taught a "work hard, earn a lot, spend a lot" ethic, and that clearly doesn't work for everyone. Just about everyone needs to work in order to pay their bills, but if I had the choice between a new car if I worked 2 extra hours a day for a year, I'd never do it. My time is WAY to valuable to me. I certainly need my job (which I love), but more importantly, I need my own time.

        OT, be wary of any woman who'll "do anything" for your money. The "your" part might not be important...
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 26 2005, @07:47PM (#13655150)
        I'll tell you who cares... my wife. She cares a lot about how much money I make. That's one reason she has sex with me

        there are a lot of women who walk the streets at night downtown who are like that.
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by varmittang (849469) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:49PM (#13655159) Homepage
        I guess the wedding vows didn't have, "for richer or poorer" in them for you.

        Yes I agree money is needed, but if keeping your family happy needs lots of money, you might be spoiling them. As for having money to have financial security in helping to raise a family, that would be the only reason why I would stay in a job I hate while I look for something else.
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Zakabog (603757) <john AT jmaug DOT com> on Monday September 26 2005, @07:57PM (#13655213)
        I hope you're not serious but...

        I'll tell you who cares... my wife. She cares a lot about how much money I make. That's one reason she has sex with me. Money makes her feel comfortable and secure. So comfortable that she'll do anything to keep me around... and I mean anything. And, I like that.

        So what you're saying is that your wife doesn't love you, but you make her feel comfortable and secure so she'll do anything to keep you around? And do you know poor people have sex too? Quite a bit more than rich people, I hear that's been going on for many many years. It has some thing to do with two people enjoying sex, coming together, liking each other, thinking the other person is attractive or whatever, and somehow they end up having sex. Money doesn't usually enter it unless the person is shallow and just looking for money, then it becomes important.

        The parent was trying to say that if you can't enjoy your money, it's not worth having, obviously you have time to do things you want to do (like have sex with your wife, or whatever else you might do.) And your friend used his money to buy cigarettes and use them to bribe people. His point was that if you spend all your time working, then you'll have no time to enjoy the money you've earned.
      • Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Monoman (8745) on Monday September 26 2005, @08:06PM (#13655264) Homepage
        You seem to be confusing hapiness with pleasure. It is a common mistake in today's "modern" societies.

        Pleasure is a short run thing and is often materialistic. Hapiness is priceless.

      • Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by andreyw (798182) on Monday September 26 2005, @09:00PM (#13655500) Homepage
        You're an idiot. You just basically stated that your whole ``relationship'' with your ``wife'' depends on your earning power, not on some particular interest in each other, compatibility, w/e. I know it sounds awful, but I do hope you go broke, just so your ``loving wife'' leaves you for someone driving a Porsche, leaving you alone to realize that you've been a complete tool your whole life.

        I sure as hope my (future) family isn't as caring about each other as yours. Pray to God that you don't become disabled, sick or afflicted with some serious crippling disease, because your whole ``loving family'' sure as hell won't be there, unless there is a will involved...
  • I have to say that this article makes me feel crazier than I normally do.

    With so many people out of work, it seems almost like biting the hand that feeds you to complain about your work conditions and expect your employer to care. Your employer's role is to provide work for you. Your job is to do that work. The employer should "care" in order to make you the most efficient you can be, but it is not their job to make sure you don't have other life ills that may cause you to take on more than you can handle. All my employees who have burned out in the past were replaced by people who accepted more pressure, more time constraints, and more deadlines without burning out. Those who burned out with me had burned out in the past and continue to burn out to this day. There are many reasons why they've burned out, and few of them had anything to do with the job.

    Job burnout has more to do with the lack of appreciation and reward an employee receives for his or her efforts than an increased work load. NO. Job burnout has more to do with the fact that the employee sacrifices himself for a crappy job, why? Maybe because he's in terrible debt! Get your finances in order, and you can walk away from ANY bad job. Never tell me you NEED your job because of financial struggle. Maybe his girlfriend is a manic depressive freak who constantly pulls him away from his other responsibilities. Maybe he's got a habit that he can't kick, or he's got some baggage that makes him want to succeed no matter what. You made your bed, sleep in it.

    Those suffering from job burnout feel no sense of accomplishment from and no control over their work lives. So walk away. Start your own company. SAVE. The Chinese are saving up to 40% of their income. The Americans are now saving 1%, 30% of all mortgages lately are interest-only. Why are you stressed: job or real life?

    Today to get ahead and save for a reasonable retirement, workers often must hop from company to company to get a promotion. Ahhh! The average employee puts almost 15% of his income away in Social Security that he knows he will never see! How about if he put 15% of his income into his own house, savings account, vacation, or whatever? How much happier would he be? Do NOT say that employers are responsible for YOUR retirement. What are we teaching our next generation? That is it someone else's responsibility to take care of us in our old age.

    Everyone is expendable, thanks to many employers' short-term, economic goals. I've run 7 businesses in the 15 years I've been in business. ALL of them had long-term goals, but I also realized that a LOT of my employees would be short term as they learned from me and found someone willing to pay the more. The wonderful free market allows people to do this. Those I invested the most in I had the most reason to pay better and give better fringe benefits to. Those who left because someone was willing to pay more than me found themselves in a better position. Those that complained I wasn't paying enough were not worth more to me, and not worth more to anyone else either it seemed.

    The job conflicted with my values. I was mentally and physically exhausted and suffered from chronic stomach problems. Oh, I didn't realize this guy was forced to keep this job. Did his employer put a gun to his head? Did he have absolutely no other options to get a job? Did he really LIKE the pain it caused him?

    Not dealing with a burned-out employee can undermine your organization's health and lead to a burnout epidemic. In the free market this is called "bankruptcy" and rarely has to do with employee's health. When all your employees are getting burned out, it is likely that the business was failing in many other areas.

    It is very important to realize that there are MANY reasons why people burn out in work, in relationships, in friendships, in life in general. To blame employers for this VERY complex situation is ridiculous, and I believe t
      • by dada21 (163177) * <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Monday September 26 2005, @07:58PM (#13655222) Homepage Journal
        Our lives sound almost identical (I just never had a kid).

        Yet how often were you trying to keep up with the Joneses?  A $60k a year job should eastily support a family of 4 if you start planning early.  I'm 31 and want a kid badly but I can't do it until I'm worth about double of my current value.

        IT is dying, you're right.  Horse-shoers disappeared, too.  IT is a commodity today.  I'd recommend moving possibily, or considering starting a business, but both are hard.

        I _hate_ that so many mistakes people make are societal.  Go to school.  Spend 28% of your gross income on a mortgage.  Buy a big new car and big new TV.  Eat out.  Drink $7 martinis.  Go on expensive vacations.  Have a $50,000 wedding.

        Life takes planning, saving, and caution.  We used to know this as a society but now its all debt, debt, debt.

        16 year olds, listen and learn:

        1. Until you're 25, save every penny possible.
        2. Never rent or lease.
        3. Get one credit card for gas, insurance and groceries. Pay 100% monthly.
        4. Never get a college loan.
        5. Never buy new cars or clothes.
        6. Socialize at private parties with friends who live like you.
        7. Work your first jobs at small companies.  Trade good pay/benefits for actual positive, marketable experience.
        8. Buy a trailer or condo for cash.
        9. Marry once you own your family home, debt free.  Watch your girlfriend for a dark side.  Stability in spending habits and emotions is key.
  • Is Steve Ballmer rich? WAY YES! But is he happy? Oh no wait, Steve, get that chair down HEEEEELP!!!
  • by cjkinniburgh (915605) * on Monday September 26 2005, @06:22PM (#13654639)
    Maslow's hierarch of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_o f_needs [wikipedia.org]) would say that a job can, over time, satisfy an employees physiological needs and safety, however, once these demands are met with money, an employer will look upwards in the hierarchy to love and belonging, and see that he could be doing better. I think that this is what happens, people see that once they are 'safe' from their basic needs, they look to expand both their emotions and themselves as individuals. People wish to do as well as they can, and doing so they look up the pyramid, leading them to change jobs, even if this produces a pay cut, as long as the pay cut allows them to live without any hardship.
    • by rainman_bc (735332) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:30PM (#13654705)
      Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a commonly misunderstood theory. It's about motivation. You can't expect someone to do something for self actualization, when safety need isn't being met. He theorizes that in order to have self-actualization as a motivator, you need to first fulfill physiological, safety, belongingness, esteem etc... A employee who cannot meet physiological needs will not be motivated by esteem needs. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a motivation theory. Of course, Alderfer's ERG theory [cnn.com] is also important to examine.
  • Love what you do (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Bungi (221687) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Monday September 26 2005, @06:23PM (#13654652) Homepage
    It's that simple. If you wake up every morning and think "wow, I'm pumped up to get to work because I love the stuff I do" then you'll always be happy. It doesn't matter if you're writing software or doing landscaping, and it doesn't matter how much money you make at it.

    Of course you can love what you do and still burnout due to bad leadership, bad environments, crappy salary, etc. But when you already love what you do you know exactly what you want and you know what to shoot for. There are many people out there who don't even know what they want to do.

    So the trick is just to find a good place to do what you really love. Everything else falls into place after that. The world is a big place. Unless your specialty is the study of the mating habits of the black-striped vampire burrowing ferret that only lives in a remote region of Mongolia, you usually have choices about jobs.

  • by Tackhead (54550) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:23PM (#13654655)
    > Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?

    Yes, but:

    Yes, but - a company that cares about your satisfaction is necessary, but not sufficient. You're partially responsible for your own satisfaction. The company can only provide you an environment in which your work is meaningful, and with bosses who aren't asshats. Some companies fail to suck, but if you keep that "I show up, I hide for 8 hours a day, I get nothing done, and they still pay me" mentality, you're not going to enjoy it any more (or any less) than working at your last job.

    Yes, and:

    Yes, and - they do exist. And they're often hiring. They're everywhere, but they're usually small companies, and you wouldn't know about them unless you knew people already working there.

    So, what to do:

    Network. In other words, do the same thing you ought to be doing every night, Pinky. Ask your friends who's worth signing up with as part of your plan to try to take over the world.

  • RTFA-Even the most enlightened, caring employers are facing conditions that can lead to employee burnout. Bob Kerr, Innotec Stainless operations manager and Welding Wire subscriber, wrote, "I hope that as a follow-up to the replies you receive from burned-out welders, you can remind them that their employer's constant efforts to increase productivity while decreasing costs are also an effort to compete in an increasingly competitive market. If the employer cannot compete successfully utilizing domestic labor, he is either forced to offshore or close shop. Therefore, it is in the best interest of each employee to strive for higher personal productivity. As Americans, we tend to forget that we are indeed competing in an increasingly smaller world."

    In other words, between the Clintonista Democrats and the Reganites and Bushies, we've signed too many free trade agreements for employers to actually be able to compete *and* care about their employees. So the second gets left in the dust because the federal government can't be bothered with the duties of the common defense and providing for the general welfare.
  • by rd4tech (711615) * <<emilijan> <at> <cpuedge.com>> on Monday September 26 2005, @06:25PM (#13654669) Homepage
    From my humble experience, these guidelines help with the subject of the article
    1. Be at work 10 minutes before time
    2. Leave on time or up to 5 minutes after.
    3. Don't do overtimes unless it's happening at most once a week and it's paid.
    4. Have your own strong principles and be professional, do what you are paid for, but keep in mind rule number 2.
    5. When a 'funny' new idea/feature/concept is about to be discussed and possibly implemented, don't go nuts over it. Stay calm, state your view, sit down and shut up. The last part is important because regardless of the undesirability of the idea, if your boss wants it to be implemented, you'll have no choice anyway. Instead of being stressed out, refer to rule 2 and 6.
    6. Once work hours ends, forget everything until the next day regardless of the pressure. Work isn't your personal life.
    7. Remember that people treat you the way you've allowed them to do.

    If you still don't agree with me, do read:
    workweek [wikipedia.org]
    Average work week in manufactoring [preservenet.com]
    • Keep your sanity (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nuggz (69912) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:33PM (#13654731) Homepage
      Good advice.
      Do your job, be professional, avoid getting into that other stuff.

      I enjoy my job, it's a good job. I take pride in my work, I do a good job.

      I leave on time, and leave work at the office, generally.

      I rarely take work home, and I try not to travel on weekends. I'm fair to the company and they're (so far) fair to me. It helps I've got a reasonable boss who believes in that balance results in better long term performance. Many other supervisors I've seen are less balanced in his approach, their people work more, but don't seem to be any more successful, and their turnover is higher.

      Makes you think.
  • Burnout/hardwork (Score:5, Interesting)

    by QuantumRiff (120817) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:28PM (#13654695)
    There is bound to be several threads here about how hard work is important, and those that complain are lazy, and want instant gratification. Let me just point out, that back in the day, you worked hard, put in insane hours, and got promoted. It was not unheard of to go from entry level to corporate VP. However, in the last decade, things have changed.. excuse me while I badly paraphrase Office Space "they're going to lay you off and hire interns, so that lumburg's stock will go up a quarter of a point" If you read the article, it also talks about employee dedication being offset by managements short term goals..

    I work government, and while I do like my job, there is no real point in my putting in insane hours. Because in government, everyone has to be treated equally. I work about 45 hours a week, busy all day (and reading slashdot!). If we do raises, everyone gets a 2% raise, or x amount a year. Everyone. Even the people that sit around all day surfing the web. There is no reward for me implementing a system wide VOIP system in 1 month from brainstorm to going live. There is no incentive for me to put in tons of work, except for my own satisfaction, and resume building.

  • by berny@work (57298) * <bstapleton@gmail . c om> on Monday September 26 2005, @06:38PM (#13654767) Journal
    Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?

    Yes, yes, and just to add it another time for good measure YES!

    Job satisfaction is a huge one on my priority list, it should be on your employers list, but most of the time it won't be. It's a shame that it works this way, but that's life I guess. I am self motivated normally because what I do the people who I work for can see the benefits of what I am trying to do. I also have a very good working relationship with them so if I need money for budgets or someone out of my way to do things, it's all very easy to organise. This means when I have to work two or three weeks straight and pull 12 - 14 hours days for that period I know that taking time off afterwards to see family / friends won't even be questioned. Anything else that I need during that time will also be taken care of without question too.

    It all comes down to the person / people who you report to, some people just aren't adept at keeping people happy by doing all those little things that keep staff. Most of the time, it's usually other members who care more and make your boss do things. I know that I bought a lot of alcohol (Bottles of wine, champagne) pens and other small gifts for staff. I managed to get one of our staff members sent away to a resort with one of her friends for a weekend away after finishing a project.

    A lot of the time I find it's all about the relationship you have with the people that you report to, if you can see them as friends and they respect you for what you are doing, then all problems seem to fade away. If you are consistently not seeing eye-to-eye on things, I would definitely move somewhere else.

    Just to let you know as well, from having managed teams before, and people that have been unhappy and going to leave, the company policy before was just to give them a pay rise and that would make them stay. Only problem with that is none of the issues about WHY that person is unhappy have been resolved. In two or three months they will want to leave again. Usually it comes down to job appreciation and giving them challenges to keep them thinking. If you do this I have seen people work for a lot less because they actually enjoy their work. When people are happy it's very very easy to correlate between their performance at work as well.

    Employers like this do exist, but it's just a case of finding them. I would find out what makes you happy and ask questions about this in your interviews to see if the company that you could be working for is really what you are after.
  • by Anubis333 (103791) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:58PM (#13654879) Homepage
    I would like to say that I left the USA and went to work for one of the best Game Developers in the EU: and I f*cking love this company. They seem to honestly care about the workers. We get ~25 days paid vacation, and OT is compensated with paid vacation days. (which is unheard of in the US) When they wanted to make a move to a larger city, they actually polled the workers to determine which city to move to! Sure, it's a Game Developer, so we stay long hours to finish things for deadlines, but it's so much nicer when you are working on a Sunday, being compensated; you get an email asking what you would like for lunch, and the CFO later walks around handing out ice cream bars to people saying "thanks for coming in on sunday, we will try to only ask you to come in on weekends when it is really needed." It really makes me want whats best for the company as a whole, and I would stay longer hours and work harder to make a better game and do better for the company I enjoy working at.
      • by Generalisimo Zang (805701) on Monday September 26 2005, @08:33PM (#13655391)
        What does it matter what the GDP of your nation is?

        If the nation's GDP goes up an extra 1%, do you get a dividend check for your share of the difference?

        If the nation's GDP goes up 3% will you suddenly become more handsome, grow a larger penis overnight, and get a 20 point IQ boost?

        Unless you're getting an equal and/or fair share of the increase in GDP, then crowing about how "GDP has gone up!!!11one" is simply a slave mentality... you're somehow happy that your masters who control the economy made some more profit, even though you'll get none of the fruits of that increase.

        If you've got a 35-hour workweek, 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, free healthcare, free schooling through Bachelor's-level for your kids, and a guaranteed old-age pension.... would you give it all up so you could live in a country that had a slightly higher GDP????

        Are you insane? What on god's green earth effect will a higher GDP have on your own personal life experience??
          • by infolib (618234) on Tuesday September 27 2005, @06:26AM (#13657137)
            It could be Denmark:
            37-hour week, though many people put quite a bit more than that in their jobs.
            5 weeks of paid holiday. (And a few "extras")
            Free schooling through masters level (M.Sc.). You have to get good grades to get into popular studies like humanities, medicine etc. though. Students receive a government grant (not to be repaid) of about $600/mo.
            Guaranteed old age pension. I'd recommend topping it off with your own savings though.

            OTOH, there's a 180% (one hundred and eighty!) tax on cars, VAT is 25% and if you hit upper middle class income you'll pay about two thirds of your last earned krone in income tax..
            Not to mention that even with a well-paying job, the guy flipping burgers isn't that far behind you on the scale. This is of course reflected in the price of your fries.

  • by chia_monkey (593501) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:03PM (#13654901) Journal
    I just came across a proposition to change my career yet again. When I was in Philly (ick) I was installing wifi all around the country. I dug the hell out of it but I really missed everything Santa Cruz, CA had to offer me. So I quit what I was doing and moved out to the west coast. I still had my consulting company out here but it wasn't a steady paycheck and bringing me the big bucks.

    So here I am in CA, doing tech support for the courthouse (we let our consulting company slowly fold as my biz partner headed off to law school and I sought a bit more stability). I get to ride my bike to work every day (about 10 miles each), have great weather, good people all around, the ocean here, the mtns, etc. However, just recently I was offered the chance to do the wifi stuff again with a 50% raise. I pondered it for about a week and realized it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted. 50% wasn't enough to travel all the time, have instability, won't get to ride all the time, etc. Paying the bills would be awesome, but it's just not worth the sacrifice. Apply this to all your job decisions and man...it's interesting what you can come up with.
  • by jht (5006) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:26PM (#13655044) Homepage Journal
    Basically, here's the roughly-a-paragraph version of my career, followed by what I do now:

    Started mid-'80s with minor tech jobs and tech/sales jobs for crappy, now out-of-business retailers (Egghead, ComputerTown, etc.). Got hired by a customer to be their admin, spent 6 utterly frantic, insane years there. I worked at all hours of the day and night, dealt with issues constantly, but I was well-paid, respected, and treated well. I loved it. Went to another job as IT manager for an insurance company, paid a lot more money. Loved it and the people, until we were sucked in by a much bigger insurance company. Their strategic plan for us involved firing half the employees and turning it into a branch office. Lost my job there as one of the first overboard (I was management, after all) in mid-'03 after 5+ years - the first 3 solving problems and running operations, the last two having conference calls with my new boss in Minnesota.

    After that thoroughly disheartening experience with The System, I decided to give being my own boss a shot. I hung out my shingle in the spring of '04, and managed to eke out a living for the first year. Now, I wouldn't say my success is assured and I'm not making the kind of bank I used to, but I'm really busy, making a good living, and I love my job. My customers are actually grateful for my work, and they trust me to help steer them in the right directions. The experience I had is a real asset for them. And even if this doesn't work out in the long term, I've learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about business, and gotten the chance to actually use all the tech skills I've piled up over the years instead of rotting from the neck up as a PHB.

    The downside? Some weeks I can't find enough hours in the week to do everything, some weeks I hear crickets chirping when I sit in my office. And today was supposed to be a family day to go to a museum with my wife and son, but instead I had to finish a proposal in the morning, and then get called in to a customer about a half-hour from here to fix a server whose power supply had failed (installed before my time and soon to be replaced). But you know - it wasn't too bad. Because the proposal is for a nice bit of business, and that didn't take too long. And the other customer knew that I was giving up my personal time to help and they genuinely appreciated it. And appreciation is something that is often sorely lacking in the salaried, 9-5 world. Crises like that don't happen often, and it just happened to be today.

    So basically I'm saying that if you want to be happy, consider working for yourself. It's a much better life (at least for me), and it's nice to at least have some measure of control again. The worst case is you'll learn something in failing. The best case is you get to really be in charge of your career.
    • by tktk (540564) on Monday September 26 2005, @06:35PM (#13654741)
      I've only ever been happy contracting. Get in, get the job done, get out. Get paid twice as much. Establish business identity, take advantage of tax deductions. Very nice way to go. Must be motivated though and willing to SAVE money for the inevitable dry spells.

      Get in, get the job done 6 months late, get out. Get called back constantly because you did a poor job.

      My apologies if you're not a building general contractor.

    • Re:Suck it up... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TeknoHog (164938) on Monday September 26 2005, @07:16PM (#13654990) Homepage Journal
      Save as much as you can, and when you can afford it, retire. Life isn't about 'being happy now' it's about playing the game right, so one day you can tell everyone to fuck-off and then go and 'be really happy'.

      I disagree completely. I'm trying to lead a really happy life right now, instead of planning to do it after 30 years of misery. In a way I've told the whole capitalist rat race to fuck off many years ago.

      The idea you talk about is the whole Christian work ethic once again, with retirement as the blissful afterlife. There are other, IMHO better ways to live your life.