Poor Man's Whole House Audio? 102
robtheauditor asks: "I would love to have my music in all the various rooms of our house. I can't afford the thousands for a turnkey system. What are the possibilities for a poor man's whole house audio system? For example, would it be possible to take my PC external audio connector and feed it to a bunch of powered speakers in different rooms? Could I just bring a bunch of 3.5mm plugs wired together in parallel, or would that not work? I was thinking that even if the signal is weak because it is split to 6 different speaker pairs, because the speakers are powered it wouldn't matter. Or will I risk burning out my sound card?"
Preamp necessary (Score:5, Insightful)
Could I just bring a bunch of 3.5mm plugs wired together in parallel, or would that not work? I was thinking that even if the signal is weak because it is split to 6 different speaker pairs, because the speakers are powered it wouldn't matter. Or will I risk burning out my sound card?
Doesn't matter if the speakers are powered...by the time you split the signal six ways it'll be so attenuated that amplifying it at the destination will also amplify the problems, including distortion and noise in the line (especially if your speaker wires are unshielded). If you want to supply six pairs of speakers, you'll need a very strong starting signal..and your soundcard by itself is probably not up to the challenge. You'll have to preamp the signal before you split it. Shielded speaker wires wouldood idea as well. be a g
It really can be obvious. (Score:5, Informative)
The sound card is almost always designed to drive headphones with its "line-level" output. It is, therefore, low-impedance - typically in the several-hundred Ohm range.
Powered speakers are high-impedance. 47K ohms is common.
This all conspires to mean that you can drive lots of pairs of cheap self-amplified computer speakers with a single cheap computer sound card, and that it such a topology is even within the design parameters of the gear in question.
But don't just take my word for it: We'll make some assumptions and pound out a silly example!
Let's assume we want to drive 16 (!) amplified speaker pairs of 47K ohms each.
This gives us a load of about 2.8K, which is nowhere near as demanding as the set of headphones that the sound card device is intended to drive. It is also substantially higher than the output impedance of the sound card, and is therefore Just Fine(tm) by the defacto standard methods of interfacing consumer line-level audio devices.
Sure, it'll be attenuated somewhat compared to driving one set of speakers. It will be measurable. It will be predictable. Is it such a big deal to turn up the volume in compensation? The frequency response will be fine, so what's the big deal?
This is just line-level audio, folks. It's supposed to be easy, and in this case, it is particularly so.
Re:It really can be obvious. (Score:1)
capacitance to what? (Score:2)
Re:It really can be obvious. (Score:1)
Re:It really can be obvious. (Score:1)
Re:It really can be obvious. (Score:1)
Re:It really can be obvious. (Score:2)
And such an op-amp already exists at the output of the sound card. No need to muddy the waters with extra parts.
Re:Pretty happy with Airport Express. (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Pretty happy with Airport Express. (Score:1, Funny)
Idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Idea (Score:1)
Re:Idea (Score:1)
Re:Idea (Score:2)
Re:Idea (Score:3, Funny)
"naaa na na na naaa *clap* *clap*"
Re:Idea (Score:2)
Squeezeboxes are very good... (Score:3, Interesting)
You'll need a computer to run the music server software. You can then easily sync up multiple rooms... and they all come with quite lovely displays and very useful remotes. This would be one of the cheaper ways to do this, and it has a nice side effect of being very, very high-quality.
But you still need amplification and speakers in every room, and that's going to add a buttload to the cost. You're essentially trying to buy six stereo systems on the cheap. I'd suggest repeated trips to pawn shops and Goodwill stores to get the sound gear... and then add your distributed music system from there.
The Squeezeboxes would make a really excellent backbone, but getting the signal to a room won't matter if you have nothing to play it back with.
Re:Squeezeboxes are very good... (Score:1)
They're even compatible with the slimserver software, which strikes me as a very good solution.
I like the idea of supporting the squeezebox people but i don't like the idea of spending $250 on the thing when there's a $100 alternative. I'm a cheapskate, i know.
Re:Squeezeboxes are very good... (Score:2)
I do know that their new M1001 will no longer do lossless.... they were so cheap on the design that they bought a part that resamples everything to 48khz. This messes up the sound... for some people, pretty badly. And it will definitely break DTS-encoded 44.1Khz WAV files. When asked about that, they just sort of vaguely said something about how DTS
Re:Squeezeboxes are very good... (Score:1)
re: "if you buy cheap you buy twice": that's almost certainly true. In fact, it's generally my goal with technology purchases - spend $100 now and $100 later instead of $250 now.
For stereo purchases, i've done both ways - i have a half-decent adcom & b+w system for the main stereo that i spent real money on, and i have a sony receiver with jvc speakers i spent $120 on (used - probably list price $400 worth of gear) that i use much more often since it's in the kitchen where we spen
Re:Squeezeboxes are very good... (Score:2)
Too much splitting! (Score:3, Interesting)
Take a trip to your local Radio Shack and look for something called a speaker switch box. It would look like a small brick with a knob on the front with the letters "A", "B", etc. on it, and plugs on the back for input/output signals. This would have the net effect of unplugging thhe unused speakers from your soundcard without the need for plugging/unplugging the cables yourself, sparing you the signal degradation.
If you're at all handy with a soldering iron, you could probably make your own speaker switch box with $5 or $10 worth of parts.
Re:Too much splitting! (Score:2)
Powered speakers provide fairly high input impedence. You can run many of them in parallel before you get down to them impedence level of headphones (which many consumer soundcards are designed to drive).
Easy-Peasy (Score:5, Funny)
That would be a walkman and a pair of headphones.
Re:Easy-Peasy (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Easy-Peasy (Score:2)
Re:Easy-Peasy (Score:1)
Re:Easy-Peasy (Score:1)
Your stereo goes up to 11, right? It's one louder than 10.
IANABAE, but.. (Score:1)
What's that? Quality?
Well, I'm not sure about you, but my a/c ducts are all tuned. They sound better than the speakers by themselves!
Re:IANABAE, but.. (Score:2)
Actually, your proposal should yield better quality sound than most BOSE speaker systems. What you left off is that special BOSE touch - i.e. it needs to cost 10x more than it is worth.
The simple, obvious solution works just fine (Score:3, Informative)
That approach has worked great for me, driving a set of three powered speaker pairs. Radio Shack even sells a one-in/three-out adapter plug; I use that to split the signal three ways, coming right off the soundcard speaker jack. Then I run 30-50 feet of shielded audio cable (bought in bulk and then connectorized; an easy soldering job) to each of the three powered speaker sets. Sound quality is fine.
I'm guessing that a six-way split would work just as well as my three-way split does.
radio shack (Score:2)
Wireless may work? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:2)
Google for them.
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:2)
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:3, Insightful)
Considering that he would be feeding it from the sound card, and it would therefore be right there at his computer, he could probably steal the small amount of 12 Volt current needed right from the computer's power supply.
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:1)
-Slashdot Junky
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:2)
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:1)
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:2)
Tried this and it worked fine. I found a micro transmitter preassembled witha jack for a wall wart for like $30 or so. Simply find an appropriate transformer (had one laying around) and a cable (i came from my stereo, computer and TV go into stereo first)
Bonus, i can slap on some FM headphones and go to 7-11 without missing a beat
Might check your radio dial for nice large dead spot, although i didnt even need to change defaults on mine.
As long as this solution doesn't become
Re:Wireless may work? (Score:1)
I use the MPX96 FM modulator from North Country Radio http://www.northcountryradio.com/Kitpages/mpx 96.htm [northcountryradio.com]
Also, the ability to power your transimtter from AC is part of the trick -- it's easy to get them to run quietly from a battery (DC). If you use a wall
FM Transmitter + Cheap Radios (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:FM Transmitter + Cheap Radios (Score:2)
wired transmitter and not too Cheap Radios (Score:2)
Soldering a longer antenna onto my tunecast 2 from Walmart made it cover most of my four bedroom house.
My radios are not cheap, though. You can get some very good tuners at thrift stores. Any digital tuner is good, though not expensive. Really cheap analog receivers are terrible and should be avoided. My wife's favorite little boom box, which she uses for CDs, does not work on FM at all anymore.
If you are really poo
Re:FM Transmitter + Cheap Radios (Score:2)
http://www.my-radio-station.com/ [my-radio-station.com]
and cheap GE radios ("GE 7-2664 AM/FM Portable Radio", about $11 from Amazon). Just took about an hour to set up, and works without any problems through our whole house.
Now you won't the same sound quality sending your CD out over FM as you would sending it directly to speakers, but to me the sound quality is fine.
Use some common sense? (Score:2)
Re:Use some common sense? (Score:2)
Impedance. Your "solution" will just fry your amp.
Re:Use some common sense? (Score:1)
Re:Use some common sense? (Score:2)
Do it the Slashdot Way© (Score:1)
This has been a msg from your Linux User Service Example RepresentativeS. LLUSERS for short.
Re:Do it the Slashdot Way© (Score:2)
Using a PERL script.
Obfuscated.
On a Beowulf cluster.
25V audio (Score:5, Informative)
Just so you know, the benefit of 25V (and 70V) audio over standard direct to speaker connections or 3.3V/5V/8V audio signals is less attenuation. 25V and 70V systems can transmit audio signals without degradation over very long distances, like what you would need to wire a whole house or building. The more usual types of audio transmission can only go a few feet.
The other benefit (perhaps more important) is that you can have as many speakers as you want on the same wires in parallel (as long as your amplifier can handle it). Under ordinary wiring schemes, you can only have one device per output channel. If you split it, either the signal will degrade or the amplifier will overload.
The only problem with this scheme is that you need completely separate amplifiers and wires for each channel (left and right) if you want stereo output instead of mono. This precludes the usual combining of grounds that most people use.
If you want to be able to control the volume of each speaker independently just toss a potentiometer between one wire and the transformer on the speaker. Like a 50 Ohm ought to be fine.
Now, just so every knows, this scheme is only cheap if you find the equipment used. Brand new, this stuff is quite expensive. BUT, this stuff is pretty easy to find used if you look for it.
If you have no patience, you could try any number of other schemes. I think one of my favorites (I have a friend how actually did this) is to buy a bunch of very crappy computers (think Pentium 200), take them out of the cases and embed them in the walls (he had fans to push the heat into his airducts). Then he attached them via ethernet and multicasted his audio signal to all his crappy machines. All ten of them (he has a HUGE house). The computers are hooked up to vintage stereos which he uses as amplifiers for each room. He controls all this with his laptop and SSH. He usually leaves the stereos on and turned up and turns the sound to each room on and off by sshing into the approriate machine. He recently told me that he's thinking of changing his setup to using one of those network audio protocols, (nas, I think) so that he can have different stuff playing in each room. He also said he was thinking of adding IrDA transcievers to his crap machines so that he can control them with his Palm.
Re:25V audio (Score:2)
Re:25V audio (Score:1)
Re:25V audio (Score:2)
With thicker cable you can run 50, 100, or 200 (with 10 gauge ack!) foot long runs and use 8ohm speakers. You can do longer if you are willing to accept a bit of atenuation. Regardless of the system used there are capacitance issues beyond about 50feet that will atenuate
I think... (Score:2)
...you missed the "poor man's" part of the question.
The guy wants to buy some wire and speaker terminals, not a centrallized full-house entertainment system, which I'm sure Google returns hundreds of. He wants to know the best way of going about this without installing a prefissional sound system.
Re:I think... (Score:1)
Simple, Cheap Solution (Score:4, Funny)
Tada, whole house audio. Your neighbors will love you because you're installing systems for them, too, and for free!
Re:Simple, Cheap Solution (Score:1)
> because you're installing systems for them, too, and for free!
If that's the effect you're after, make sure you play nothing but polka music.
Either that or just skip the boombox and get a train whistle and an air compressor.
Umm... (Score:1)
one low budget way (Score:3, Interesting)
Google for Boosteroo. It's a one stereo in, three stereo out preamp/headphone amp that you could stick between your soundcard and your speakers.
I thought there was a Slashdot article about hacking it a while back but I'm not finding it.
The reason to need to know how to take it apart is because it runs on a battery or two and you might want to hook up an AC adapter.
Try Slim Server (Score:1)
Here's some features of Slim Server that make this worth considering for your whole
Go Mono (Score:4, Interesting)
Get an old, used 4:1 amp on the cheap with a mono output option. Put a speaker in every room. Assuming you have smaller speakers than the manufacturer was expecting to drive, use two speakers per line, for 8 total.
I wouldn't worry about stereo. When you have music coming from every room, stereo separation gets muddied. Alltogether, the audio is a bit cleaner in mono, if you've got 5 or 6 mono sources from around the house coming at you.
Another way to do it, if you really want to be cheap, is broadcast. Get a low-powered radio transmitter, pick an unused station, and blast it. Tune the radios in your house, and you're done.
If I were going to do this... (Score:2)
If you look carefully, you can find stereo receivers from the 80s that have two sets of stereo speaker outputs, so you could have eight sets of stereo speakers.
The console would also be useful because you could have a number of different inputs, and pipe them to different areas of the house. So maybe the
Re:If I were going to do this... (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:If I were going to do this... (Score:1, Redundant)
I will feel very old if an 8-bus Mackie is going for under $100. Then I will buy three of them.
Re:If I were going to do this... (Score:2)
Learn about the subject of the post before you mod it down.
Dumbasses.
- No karma bonus
poor man's solutions (Score:5, Informative)
It sounds like you want a system originating from just one source- since you were willing to spit the headphone hack signal so many times. For starters, maybe poke around for a device called a 'video distribution amplifier'. You can buy one for something like $20-$50 bucks in the US that will split one set of signals five or six ways. If you just want to split audio right now, ignore the video. Later, you can use the video to send an (admittedly low quality) image of the computer screen to TVs and video monitors around the house if your video card supports this or if your scrounge up a VGA to composite adapter.
Watch thrift stores for old receivers from the 70s. I've had great luck with old Panasonic and Technics receivers- they're surprisingly high quality. You can use these receivers two ways- to distribute and/or to receive audio in each room. To distribute, wire the audio signal from your computer into the AUX or TAPE PLAY inputs. The outputs labeled TAPE REC (there might be two sets of these hopefully) can go to another room to input into gear there. My experience has been that you can safely split each of these TAPE PLAY outputs once without noticeable degradation- so you can go to as many as four sets of amplified speakers, or four more amplifiers, or four car stereos from here.
Since you're hacking, you can also use the headphone jack on your receiver as another output- preferably to amplified speakers which are designed for this sort of signal. Although, be warned, on some equipment the presence of a headphone plug automatically turns off the local speakers if you were planning to use them. By the way, some (maybe 5% of what I've seen) 70's gear prefers 16 ohm speakers- 8 ohm speakers on them will sound a little funny, especially after you blow them out.
The receiver will also have some other inputs too, for your CD player, etc which then can be easily distributed to the whole house. Keep in mind that the old PHONO inputs prefer a different kind of signal from what your computer and CD player puts out.
As for cabling.. the best cable I've snagged while dumpster diving was some Ma Bell cabled with 16 or so sets of twisted pair, maybe 16 gauge or so. This works beautifully. For very long runs, poke around for the cable ordinarly used for composite video. There are some semi-cheap options on ebay like this, but for stereo you'll need two. People say not to use coax, but I've used it for audio when I've had some excess laying around, and it worked great for me. You can solder standard RCA plugs on the ends and seal. I like to use a bit of clay epoxy because it not only insulates but also protects.
Ok, now let's talk about how to actually play the audio you've very professionally sent to each room. I think the best bet in this kind of setup is the computer-style self powered speakers. They have volume and power switches on them, which is all the control you're going to have in that room anyway (unless you use VNC or some such like I do to control the media server). You can find old computer speakers in thrift stores pretty easily, but they always seem to be missing their power cables. This is where your lifetime spent not throwing away AC-DC power adapters
Re:poor man's solutions (Score:1)
Re:poor man's solutions (Score:2)
Regarding cheap cabling... I've used standard CAT-5 for the very unprofessional speaker runs I've had in my home at times. I'd twist the 4 solid-colored wires together for one condutcor and the 4 open wires as my second conductor (the logic being that four 26-guage wires would have better properties than one 26-guage wire). Seemed to be less noisey than the crap I bought at Rat Shack (you can tell I'm no audiphile).
I don't know how this would hold up to high-end gear. This was for my $200
Re:poor man's solutions (Score:1)
Orange
thanks for the correction (Score:2)
Re:poor man's solutions (Score:2)
FYI: You can easily get ATX power supplies to power on without a computer by shorting the right pins. I think it's green to ground (black), but it's probably better not to take my word on it. Instead, you should trust some random guy who has a web site.
Omnifi DMS1 Digital Media Streamer (Score:4, Insightful)
It's what I recently did for a friend, and he is VERY happy. So is his wife.
Re:Omnifi DMS1 Digital Media Streamer (Score:1)
Whoa.
What'd you do for her?
Distribution Amps (Score:2)
Re:Distribution Amps (Score:2)
I agree completely, but the one you link to seems quite a bit more complicated (and expensive) than necessary here - You need the $200 base unit plus a $50 receiver in each room? No way!
The AudioVox VA100 [amazon.com] (not a referrer link, and just search for the model number on Amazon if you don't trust me) does 1 stereo input to 4 stereo outputs, and handles audio separate from video (ie, no need to deal with converting it to RF and back, as with most cheap
Re:Distribution Amps (Score:1)
PCI MAX 2004 OR PCI MAX 2005 (Score:1)
A GOOD transmission antenna will run you another $90 or so. I haven't gotten mine yet, so I can only make it across my house in mono.
Still, it's more elegant than my 100-ft RCA-cable run, and has better reception quality AND range than my crappy X10 "mp3anywhere" 2.5gHZ transmitter.
It's all about the impedance (Score:3, Interesting)
Put two 8 ohm speakers in series you get 16 ohms of impedance. This won't fry your sound card but the volume in the speakers will be lower.
Put two 8 ohm speakers in parallel and your impedance becomes 4 ohms. Volume stays the same but you risk burning your soundcard.
Put 6 speakers in parallel and you start a fire.
The best thing to do is put 4 speakers in series/parallel. Split the channel into two lines and put two speakers in series on each line. This keeps the impedance at 8 ohms and gives you 4 speakers.
Of course, the suggestion below to just buy an FM transmitter is the best one yet. You can buy tiny FM radios to plug into powered speakers if you really want the powered speakers, or just use boom boxes instead.
Re:It's all about the impedance (Score:2)
Speakers, whether powered or not, have an impedance that must be watched if you're going to hook up more than two to each channel.
Uh, no. Yes, a powered speaker has an impedance, but it's going to be at least 10Kohms. Any audio output can drive such a load; that's how line-level audio is designed - low output impedance, high input impedance. Actual direct driving of speaker drivers by a power amplifier is an entirely different matter.
Re:It's all about the impedance (Score:2)
Put two 8 ohm speakers in series you get 16 ohms of impedance."
The phrase "powered speakers" implies a speaker-amplifier combination. The manufacturer has already dealt with the amplifier output and speaker voice coil impedence matching issue. The input of a powered speaker isn't a speaker's input, it's an amplifier's input. Amplifier inputs fall into that nebulous mid to hig
wireless SPDIF (Score:2)
The only problem is finding a cheap way to get to analog
Re:wireless SPDIF (Score:2)
Build your own Squeezebox (Score:2)
-Myren
Re:Build your own Squeezebox (Score:2, Informative)
Gettoblaster, big (as in: luxury and really big) (Score:2)
And *everything* is remote controlled with a full-blow 40-button remote- my last main buying point.
On top of that all CD drawers, display covers and tape deck slots are power driven and remote controllable.
The audio quality is great and even beats (no
Balanced signals.. (Score:2)
My whole-house audio system (Score:3, Informative)
In my case, I wanted a system that didn't require large cash outlay (i.e. no large multichannel amps). I wanted one that I could grow piecemeal and buy things a bit at a time on a shoestring budget, yet they would work as an integrated whole. But I wanted true stereo in each room, from real in-ceiling speakers (FM radios don't cut it).
The solution I settled on is A-Bus. A-Bus is a music-over-Cat5 technology with You wire a single Cat5 (much easier to fish through walls than speaker cables) from a hub near your music source to each room. The hub is less than $100. In each room, you put an amplified volume control (less than $50 - see e.g. http://www.basshome.com/product_8464_detailed.htm [basshome.com] - you can also get one that can pass IR to your audio source) and wire from that to your speakers, which is usually a fairly short run.
Works well, sounds great, looks like a high-end system, and not too much cash outlay at any given time.
My two cents (or four) (Score:2)
One line output driving a bundle of line inputs: works, but not good (impedance problems, ground loops unless you use symmetrical inputs, cables and output)
One amplifier output driving a bundle of speakers: too many speakers kill the amplifier (impedance goes too low), lots of loss on long cables. Driving a 4 ohm speaker via a long, thin cable having 2 ohm per wire uses half of the power to heat the cable.
The standard technique for distributing audio to a bunch of speakers is to use 100 volts (I don't kno
The $29.95 solution if you build it yourself (Score:2)
Look at the one at the bottom for hooking directly to your soundcard.
Or look at this one at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007ODOMA/102-2
Linksys NSLU2 (Score:2)
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/SlugAsAudio
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001FSCZO/ [amazon.com]
A big fat old stereo with linear power amp (Score:2)
Go to a local second-hand stereo store. Buy a big huge heavy stereo with a Tape input (line level) and a big linear amp. Feed the PC into that.
Some old stereos have up to four "zones" of stereo speaker outputs. Buy a speaker switchbox or make one from a bunch of good quality switches. Be nice to your amp and don't switch things in and out when it's on... turn it all the way down or off and switch in the zones you want music in. (Takes a whole 5 seconds.)
Run speaker cabl