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Building PCs - How do you Choose Your Components?

Posted by Cliff on Tue Nov 22, 2005 09:15 PM
from the only-the-freshest-ingredients dept.
ATP asks: "It's been a few years since I built my current system by ordering parts from the cheapest vendors I could find. Everything went smoothly with very little research, and my system is still running great today. I'm now looking into building another desktop system, but I've become quickly overwhelmed by how complex components have become. In particular, motherboard/CPU compatibility are confusing (think: single/dual, socket 478/604/754/939/939pciExpress/940/LGA775, OS compatibility, memory types, etc). Is there a guide to the not-so-novice PC guru somewhere that would help me catch up on the developments in the last couple years?"
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  • by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:17PM (#14097305) Homepage Journal
    I spew alpha-numeric soup, much like the story submission, until the salesman faints!
  • by slasher999 (513533) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:27PM (#14097357)
    Check out what some of the big guns are doing. I'd start by visiting Intel's site. Even if you aren't an Intel fan, there is a ton of info on CPU's, memory, chipsets, etc. available at the site. Also check out what companies like Alienware are doing. They build for a "niche" market primarily - a high end niche market. Again, plenty of info. CNet and Toms' Hardware are good places to look, as are (or were last time I was there) the forums over at Directron.
      • I agree that Aurora ALX system is WAY overpriced, it was only an FX 55 CPU too. Your best bet with Alienware is to configure one yourself. I started with the Aurora 7500 and squeezed in an FX 57, 2GB of RAM, a 500GB hard drive, 2 x 7800GTX 512MB in SLI config, 2 DVD burners, keyboard and mouse for a hair over $4500 and a ship date of 11/28. That's $300 cheaper than the far inferior ALX system... Still expensive (those 7800GTX 512MB cards are $700 EACH!), but you get just about the best machine money can buy
  • tomshardware.com (Score:5, Informative)

    by kwerle (39371) <kurt@CircleW.org> on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:29PM (#14097363) Homepage Journal
    Isn't that what http://tomshardware.com/ [tomshardware.com] is [supposed to be]?
    • Re:tomshardware.com (Score:5, Informative)

      by harrkev (623093) <.gro.ylimafnoslerrah. .ta. .dsmfk.> on Wednesday November 23 2005, @07:33AM (#14099318) Homepage
      I second this opinion. But here is the strategy that I would use:

      1) Pick your processor company. Are you am AMD or an Intel guy? I tend to prefer AMD myself, but you have to make up your own mind..

      2) Choose your socket. This should be an easy one. For each company, you have a budget and a premium socket. This should be an easy choice -- just look at your budget. Over $1000 = premium. Under $500 or so, go budget. In between, you will have to decide. Once this is nailed down, choose a processor based on your budget.

      3) Chipset selection. You might have a couple of choices here, depending on which processor you choose. To me, a couple of percentage points on a benchmark is not worth much. I look for such things as the interfaces supported (some value mobos do not have firewire, for example). Do you want to run two vid cards (for the rich only)? How many SATA ports will you need. If you are a Linux type of guy, will your chipset be supported by your OS? This is probably the hardest choice to make.

      4) Mobo selection. Once you know which chipset you want, then you have to choose a manufacturer. Everybody has favorites here. My only advice is to choose a larger manufacturer. Look at the review web sties to get an idea for the stability of the board (this is a big deal). Note that a long warranty is REALLY nice to have.

      5) RAM is easy. All you have to really decide is how much. Get budget RAM from one of the big names (OCZ, for example). Do not get premium RAM. Buy budget RAM and use the difference to upgrade to a faster processor or vid card. Premium RAM is for people who have unlimited budgets and already have top-of-the-line everything else. 1GB is a nice number. If you are on a tighe budget, go 512M, but no lower!

      6) Vid card. This is another personal preference thing. Choose ATI or nVidia. I chose nVidia because of Linux support. If you are not a Linux type of guy, then either one will work. Here is where the hardware review sites really become valuable.

      7) Hard drives. If you are in the mainstream price range, you have several choices. There is a little difference between different manufacturers as far as speed goes, but I still think that it would be hard to get a bad hard drive. Just make sure that it is large enough. If you have the money to go for NCQ (and your mobo supports it), then do it.

      9) Case. This one is a matter of personal preference. Even a cheap case will work great, as long as it has enough cooling capability. Paying more for smooth internal edges is nice, but if you build it once and then do not open it up, sharp edges can be lived with for the cost savings.

      10) Power supply. DO NOT SKIMP HERE. Always go for a good name brand with enough watts. I chose Antec. There are others out there with a good reputation.

      11) Optical drives. There are so many good choices here, it is hard to go wrong. Even the worst drives are good. But there are a few favorites that keep coming up. Benq and NEC make good DVD burners.

      Some more general advice. If you are a gamer, skimp a little on the processor to get a good vid card. If you are a code monkey, get the best processor that you can afford.
    • Re:tomshardware.com (Score:4, Informative)

      by (trb001) (224998) on Wednesday November 23 2005, @08:39AM (#14099593) Homepage
      Tom's is great if you want to comparison shop, but if you're not interested in reading performance charts and umpteen comparisons, I usually head over to Arstechnica's system guide [arstechnica.com], where they have the God Box, Hot Rod and Budget Box systems. I've built two systems based off their recommendations, and all the parts they've recommended that I've used have been great.

      --trb
      • Re:tomshardware.com (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        there are similar types of high-end/midrange/low-end example systems with component descriptions at www.sharkyextreme.com [sharkyextreme.com] (and doubtless lots of other sites too).

  • Well (Score:2, Insightful)

    I don't have much advice other than go AMD, its easier to find compatible parts.
    • Re:Well (Score:3, Informative)

      by Grab (126025)
      Too true.

      I built an AMD setup about 4-5 years back. My CPU is an 800MHz Duron, old Socket A. Until a couple of months ago, AMD were still selling CPUs that would fit old Socket A. During that time, the number of different Intel sockets used has been well into the teens. Your chances of getting a replacement Intel CPU should your old one fail? Close to zero. Your chances of getting a better fan for an older Intel CPU if you get tired of the noise? Close to zero. Both of these, it's "replace-the-mobo"
  • by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:36PM (#14097396) Homepage
    It sounds like you are just going out and looking for good deals then seeing what fits with that. I'm not surprised that you are running into such a problem. My suggestion would be to figure this stuff out up front as much as possible.

    The first thing you need to decide is things like do you want a little computer (like a Shuttle) or something special (dual-cpu SLI) etc. The odder your request, the more your field is automatically narrowed down. The rest of this will apply, but I"ll assume you just want a normal (probably 1, maybe 2 CPU) board without SLI.

    Start with the big one. Do you want Intel or AMD? I would go with AMD at this moment, but the choice is yours. So now that you know that, you eliminate a large chunk of stuff. So lets say you want AMD (same basic things for Intel).

    Do you want dual processor (NOT CORE, PROCESSOR). If you want multiple sockets (dual rules, but you could get the same benefit with a dual core these days). If you do, that will severely limit your chipset choices and motherboard choices (because most dual-cpu boards are designed for servers). So by reading articles on the CPU you want, you can find out which chipsets support it. Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.

    Then look up the chipsets (with reviews of those). These will let you see the features to find something you'd really like that would narrow things down (say SLI as only a few chipsets support that). That way you can find the chipset you want (or at least a list of those you DON'T want).

    Now you know your processor type, and a chipset (or small list). Now if want SLI then based on your graphics brand many of these decisions are made for you. With this information you can go out looking various motherboard manufacturers' sites looking for boards that have what you want (or close to it). From here you read reviews and narrow things down.

    I've stopped following all this stuff closely as I moved to laptops and then Mac (neither of which can you build your own). I'd say the most important thing would be the processor right now. You need to decide how much you want this system. Because while there are always new revisions coming out every few months, we are about to see some big changes. Intel is going to release their new chips (Yonah?) based on the Pentium M for the desktop. AMD will be moving to a new socket soon to enable them to use DDR2. So you may want to wait. On the other hand, the new Intel processor might not be enough for you wait, and you may see DDR as just fine (because when they first hit the street, the new CPUs and boards will be expensive and might not be worth it to you).

    You've got homework to do, but if you just go looking at motherboards for features you like and try to decide the other factors (SLI, CPU, memory, etc) based on that you can be easily overwhelmed at one manufacturer's site.

    I hope this helps. This is the process that I went through every time I built a computer, but like I said I used to keep up with this stuff much more than it sounds like you do (I'm now where you seem to be: I know some general stuff but I'd need a bunch of research before even starting to look at parts to buy).

    • by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @11:06PM (#14097862) Homepage Journal
      Multiple CPU sockets gives an upgrade path, I don't see it as relevant to even a high-end desktop now that multicore CPUs are available.
    • by Bios_Hakr (68586) <xptical&gmail,com> on Wednesday November 23 2005, @12:46AM (#14098266) Homepage
      I second the AMD path. Right now, the 3500+ is the best price/perf for single cores. The X2-3800+ is probably the best for dual cores. If you want to spend more money, then go for it. Single core Venice chips are the best right now; really low power and heat for the performance they give.

      Next, pick some RAM. You either want DDR or DDR2. There isn't a big performance gain for DDR2 right now, but that could change in the next 6 months. Get either Kingston or Corsair. If you overclock, look for high speed and low timings. If you don't overclock, get HyperX or XMS memory rated for the 3200 (DDR-400) range.

      The MoBo is the heart of your system. To not get PCI-X would be a crime. Grab a board from a reputable company. I like ASUS for stability and MSI or Abit for overclocking and options. Look for sound and Gig-E built in. Get SATA RAID if you swing that way. Even if you don't plan on using RAID, SATA RAID is a standard on most of the nicer boards.

      SLI may or may not be a gimick. I think it is. If you don't plan on buying two top-of-the-line GPUs right now, then, chances are you never will.

      Look at the MSI Neo4 Platinum for PCI-X and the Neo2 Platinum if you just have to have AGP.

      Really, and Socket 939 board with a Nforce4 chipset will do fine.

      If you get a dual core chip, make sure you have a way to flash the BIOS before you install the chip. 90% of the boards out there will not boot out of the box with a dual core chip.

      If you are a gamer, grab one of the GF7800 cards. Between the GT and GTX boards, you should be able to fit one in your budget.

      If you aren't a gamer, look at some special needs. Do you need TV-In? Do you want to do TV-Out? Dual monitors? I picked up a PVR-250 for TV-In and my GF 6600GT does a fine job on dual monitors and will even do Composite/Component/S-Video out to my HDTV with no problems.

      On-board sound is fine for 90% of the applications out there. If you game, look at getting some USB headphones. They will have a DAC in the headset and will provide nice, clear sound.

      I have a Plantronics USB headset. I also do a lot of Flight Sims. I use the headset to pipe the voice comms from TeamSpeak and then let my external speakers take care of the in-game sounds. It's a real nice setup.

      Spend some time looking for a nice case. A good case will last through several computers. Maybe look for something BTX/ATX compatible.

      Get a gig of memory. 2 gigs is probably overkill.

      Get two hard drives. A Raptor for C:\ and a big drive for storage. Get SATA if you can.

      Get a good combo CD/DVD-R/RW. SATA is probably overkill, but will keep the insides clean.

      Get a nice, big power supply. At least 400 watts; maybe 500. Look for something with a 120mm fan. It'll be quieter than those with 80mm fans.

      As for fans, you'll need at least one fan for the case. If you chose wisely, the case will accept a 120mm fan right in front of the hard drive cage. The power supply fan can take care of the exaust in most cases.

      When you put the thing together, throw in the RAM, CPU and Heatsink, and video card. After that, boot it to make sure it POSTs.

      From there, install your CD/DVD drive and throw in a Memtest86+ CD. Boot and let it run the test for 12 to 24 hours. If you have no errors, boot off a Knoppix DVD and make sure the sound card, NICs, and video card work fine. Play some 3D games in Knoppix just to verify there are no problems.

      After that, install your main hard drive and reboot into Knoppix. Format the drive and run a FSCK to test the disk. After that, delete all the partitions and then you can install the OS of your choice.

      If you use WinXP, look at using something like NLite to slipstream SP2, all the hotfixes, and the latest drivers for your MoBo.

      Good luck.
    • by Yenya (12004) on Wednesday November 23 2005, @12:57AM (#14098299) Homepage Journal

      Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.

      Thinking about the possible future upgrades is, from my past experience, not worth the money. I have never ever upgraded just the CPU (even on high-end servers[*]). By the time you decide that the present CPU is too slow the new CPUs will use better memory interfaces, which means at least the memory upgrade as well, but the new memory interface usually means the new mainboard infrastructure or new CPU socket. Remember that the memory bandwidth and latency are the main bottlenecks of the current computers - upgrading just the CPU does not solve it.

      That said, there is nothing wrong with dual-core support on the chipset per se. Just don't expect you would ever use it as an upgrade path. Instead try to think about the applications this computer will run. Last time I have checked, the prices of (for example) Opteron 254 (2.8 GHz single core) was similar to the price of Opteron 270 (2.0 GHz dual core). If your load can be parallelized (HTTP serving, spam filtering, some databases, etc.), you will benefit from the additional CPU core, even though both cores are running at the lower frequency. If you have a highly serialized load (workstation?), the higher frequency of the (single) CPU will probably be better.

      [*] Well, many years ago we did a CPU upgrade of the SGI Challenge. However, the price of the upgrade was almost the same as the price of the new server.

      • Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.

        Thinking about the possible future upgrades is, from my past experience, not worth the money. I have never ever upgraded just the CPU (even on high-end servers[*]). By the time you decide that the present CPU is too slow the new CPUs will use better memory interfaces, which means at least the memory upgrade as well, but the new memory interfac

  • I Don't (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rueger (210566) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:36PM (#14097403) Homepage
    After years of building and maintaining my own systems I finally tried a new direction and bought a new Powerbook. Aside from some problems specific to transferring things like e-mail files over to the Mac, (all the gory glory is on my blog [threesquirrels.com]) and of course oddities like the lack of a right mouse button and backspace key, it has been pretty painless.

    I guess that I just don't have the patience anymore to try and wrangle motherboards, CPUs, hard drives, peripherals, and Windows into a happy coexistence.

    I wanted something that I could just plug in and run.

    We'll see if I guessed right.
    • Re:I Don't (Score:3, Informative)

      by superjerk (828305)
      I had the same problem with my new iBook when i first got it. Turns out, Fn-Delete does backspace and Sidetrack (http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/ [ragingmenace.com]) will help with the right click issue.
      • Mod up! These two tips solve a lot of common gripes. Although, I always thought the Delete key acted as backspace, and fn-Del was forward delete...
    • Re:I Don't (Score:3, Informative)

      by MBCook (132727)
      I agree with this. I own a Mac now and I love it.

      That said, are you sure you want to build your own PC? I built my own for years but finally got tired of it. At a certain point I decided the time wasn't worth it, and I wanted to be able to call the manufacturer if something went wrong and say "fix it".

      I bought a laptop (Dell) and never regretted that I didn't build another computer. When things happened, I could call dell about it instead of searching forms on the internet to try to diagnose whatever odd

      • Re:I Don't (Score:3, Interesting)

        by eyeball (17206)
        The previous two posters in this thread (at least visible to my threshold) mentioned that they switched to Mac. I'm getting close to doing the opposite.

        About 3 years ago I built my own PCs, then switched to Macs. I've been using the same 1ghz Powerbook for two and a half years, and it still feels zippier than my 2ghz work machine that has to run Windows for Outlook.

        Recently someone gave me a hand-me-down 2ghz P4 Prescott bare-bones system, with Twinview-capable NVidia card. I loaded it up with Ubuntu and st
        • Interesting...

          I've got an old G4 Cube & a Dual 2.5 G5 PowerMac. Moving the applications that I run more or less constantly to the Cube has pretty much removed the word "wait" from my computing experience. The only thing I find myself waiting on is when I am assemble extremely large panoramic photos and this is never more than many seconds and certainly not more than a couple of minutes. GCC, for the small applications I write, is so fast it's vitually instantaneous. Also interesting is several of t

  • by the eric conspiracy (20178) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:37PM (#14097408)
    I used to buld my systems from loose parts, and had fun doing it. Now though I find I like to save some time buy going to an ala cart shop like Monarch Computer. Using them I can pick out the system components I want and let them assemble/test the system. Monarch does a good job putting together a list of options and is pretty helpful with suggestions. It's much better than buying some off the shelf thing without knowing what is in it plus you get some help picking out a good combination of stuff.

  • Some Helpful Sites (Score:3, Informative)

    by TripMaster Monkey (862126) * on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:38PM (#14097411)

    These sites might be of assistance:

    www.anandtech.com [anandtech.com]

    www.sharkyextreme.com [sharkyextreme.com]

    www.lostcircuits.com [lostcircuits.com]
  • by max born (739948) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @09:40PM (#14097427)
    I get my stuff from price watch [pricewatch.com].

    First I find the processor I want, then I get the system board, memory, HD, DVD, case, keyboard, monitor, etc.. Having saved by building it myself, I like to splurge on a nice case, aluminium or fish tank cases are nice.
    • I used to shop through pricewatch, until I dealt with the skeeziest dealers on the planet, that made me stop for good. I think I had three really really really bad experiences with their sh*tty dealers, no more.

      I stick with the high-quality vendors such as:
      NewEgg.com - ZipZoomFly.com - MonarchComputer.com - ClubIT.com

      To find the cream-of-the-crop vendors, use: ResellerRatings.com

      Also check out the Hot Deals sections of forums (read the FAQ, before you post!)
      www.hardforum.com
      forums.anandtech.com
  • Here's my guide. (Score:2, Informative)

    by BKX (5066)
    First, choose a mobo/cpu combo.

    Second, buy compatible RAM. (The mobo determines what you need to buy.) Get at least 1GB. Always get your RAM such that you will have two (or four) identical DIMMs. Get the fastest RAM that your mobo can handle. Use the manufacturer's website to determine that. For most AMD systems, this will PC3200 DDR SDRAM. For most (new) Intel mobos, this will be some type of DDR2. DDR2 and DDR have nothing to do with dual-channel memory. That is about whether you have two (or four) identi
    • Re:Here's my guide. (Score:2, Informative)

      by jacobdp (698004)
      When choosing a power supply, get a good-quality one, but don't go overboard with the wattage.

      My system:
      Athlon64 3500+, overclocked (currently 2.4ghz, probably going to push it more)
      GeForce 7800GT
      2gb OCZ Platinum RAM
      MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
      1x Samsung Spinpoint 120gb hard drive
      1x NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
      Seasonic S12-380 power supply (380 watt, obviously)

      Just for fun, I stuck an ammeter on the power input. At full load, running Quake 4, with the overclocked CPU and high-end video card, the whole thing draws... 1.
      • by BKX (5066)
        I just did. I got about 1.6A. Thats with a Geforce 6800GT and P4-2.8GHz Prescott. Comparable everything else. With an Akasa 460W PSU. That doesn't surprise me in the least. I was more warning about quality anyway. A lot of those cheap "450W" PSUs can't handle more than 200W and when they're putting out that much, the power quality is ridiculous. Of course, I tested my home system as drawing 3.5A last year. I was burning two DVDs and four CDs at once. It was on an Athlon 3000+ with 1GB RAM, a Chaintech mobo,
    • These are the least important. Get whatever monitor you can afford. Get the cheapest keyboard that your willing to have on your desk.

      Otherwise good advice, but this is awful. Do NOT skimp on the monitor. Right now you're not playing Halflife 2, you're reading /. That's something that will work exactly the same with any CPU, video card, hard disk, whatever. Hell, I could dig up my old P90 from 1995, set up a lightweight distro, and Slashdot would work just as well as it does on the latest-n-greatest. The c

  • look for value (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Eil (82413) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @10:18PM (#14097639) Homepage Journal
    I was in the same boat not too long ago... it took me a few days to get back up to speed, but my method was basically to hit up Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] for the terms and technologies I knew nothing about, shopped around taking notes on what was available, and then finally read reviews on the specific items that I was considering. Eventually those items with the best value got my buy.

    Here's a hint on how to get the best value when buying certain kinds of components and money is not an overriding factor. When narrowing down your search for that one component, you'll reach a point where you've found a line of processors, memory, or hard disks that have the features you want. The only difference among your choices is speed or size. The price increases with those numbers, but almost never linearly. Graph speed/size vs price of any current processor model to see what I mean.

    At the lower left, you'll see the line rise steadily and then about midway through it starts to rise more rapidly. At any point above that rise, you're paying significantly more money at each increment for only moderate or even insignificant performance gains. The sweet spot for value is right before that rise.
  • by RingDev (879105) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @10:38PM (#14097736) Homepage Journal
    Head to Tom's Hardware or other high end review site. Look for their killer rig review from 6 months ago/1 generation off. Buy those parts and assemble. You'll have a next to top end machine at a fraction of the cost with a parts list that has been fully pounded out by the pro's.

    -Rick
  • The Short Answer (Score:5, Informative)

    by kallisti777 (46059) <TimWalker@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Tuesday November 22 2005, @10:51PM (#14097802) Homepage Journal
    You wanted a short and up to date guide? Ars Technica has what you're looking for [arstechnica.com].

    Three other points I would add:

    1. All the praise of Tom's Hardware Guide is absolutely true.

    2. Analog sources can be good... flip through a few Computer Shopper magazines and the Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide before making significant purchases.

    3. Before you spend a dime, run the numbers and figure out whether or not building it yourself is really worth it. Is there a config you want that Dell doesn't offer? How does price compare to an off-the-shelf solution? Would you prefer a single point of contact for repair issues or are you comfortable dealing with multiple vendors? Depending on what you need it to do, a DIY solution might very well be better, faster, and cheaper... just check first.

    Also, just in case, this is solely my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of my employer.

    • Caveat: I built one of the Ars rigs for my first homemade and it worked out great. I have, though, seen warnings that they don't actually build those setups, and that some of their recommendations have contained conflicts of the sort the submitter is trying to avoid.
    • Is there a config you want that Dell doesn't offer?

      I'd like my configuration to be easily upgradeable: as in no bloody hands working in the case, no 140$ 200W PSU, no propietary motherboard, no 6 dozen things to uninstall after a reload, etc.

      It's a valid point I suppose: you only save money if you are building a high-end machine, and then you only save if you don't screw it up the first time by jamming RAM in backwards or damaging the CPU. But I think for most DIYers the money part, for this particular typ
  • by NOPteron (838244) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @11:01PM (#14097839) Homepage Journal

    IF one knows that one wants a machine that will run "new" release programs in 3 years, that means AMD64, rather than 32-bit
    ( compatibility-problems, as-in programs simply not running, have been found on the Intel implimentation of x86_64 )

    That cuts down the field greatly.

    THEN, one looks at whether the thing is guaranteed to be wordprocessing-only
    ( or equivalent non-taxing, ie NO multimedia-rendering or vid-conferencing, ferinstance ),
    and one can sanely go with single-channel-RAM ( socket 754 ),
    rather-than dual-channel-RAM ( socket-939 or socket-940 )

    THEN once looks at what kind of expandibility one may need, later. . .
    Video-card?
    No-longer does AGP count ( they aren't making top-end ones anymore, and soon won't be making middle-of-the-road ones, either! ),
    so one requires PCIe ( PCI-Express ) 16x on the motherboard.

    Does one want to be forced to find a firewire-card to add-in later? or does one want everything built-in?

    Does one want the ability to add-in PCIe add-in cards for, say, high-end-audio, or for video-capture, or for ANYTHING?

    one needs PCIe slots, then, too ( PCI is going the way of the dodo )

    All in all, the one mobo I know-of, that at-the-moment covers it ( including a 4x PCIe slot, for later! ),
    is by MSI http://www.msicomputer.com/index2.asp [msicomputer.com]

    Unfortunately, it's got a fan on the chipset,
    so it's an on-when-one-uses-it cheap workstation-board,
    rather-than an always-on everything-server-board
    ( fans die after however many running-hours they happen to survive )

    http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode l=K8N_Neo4_Platinum&class=mb [msicomputer.com]

    Abit's got one that is missing the PCIe 4x slot, but that has no chipset-fan, called the
    Abit AN8 Ultra
    http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?c ategories=1&model=278 [abit-usa.com]

    Right, that's the mobo, howabout the CPU?
    syncronous-with-the-RAM is a good rule

    IF the mobo can deal-with PC3200 RAM ( these 2 can ), then that means the RAM's communicating-speed is 400MHz ( rather-than, say, 333MHz )
    Since there isn't any valid thing as 1/3 of a wait-cycle ( it's either 0 or it's 1, with computers ), I want the CPU's actual physical speed to be a multiple of that, like say 2000MHz.
    That gets the speed, so what choices are there?
    cheap, and I wasn't able to get-one, is the
    SDA3400DIO28W Sempron 3400+ Socket 939 ( the "3400+" is the approximate equivalent in Intel-speed, known-as its "rating" )
    More expensive, and having more on-chip cache-memory, is the
    2.0 GHz 939-pin Athlon 64 3200+
    Ultimate capability would-be the X2 chip ( 2 Athlon64 cores in one chip, so when one program is swamping one core, the system still responds )
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInforma tion/0,,30_118_9485_13041%5E13076,00.html [amd.com]
    shows that cheapest multiple-of-400MHz X2 chip is the "3800+" and the highest-end is 2.4GHz "4800+"
    Hit http://www.pricewatch.com/ [pricewatch.com] to discover what sane-prices are for the things, but be sitting-down when you see the highest-end ones. . .

    Case? Aluminum. That keeps hard-drives cooler ( whole case acts like a nice-big heatsink ).
    Make decorations for it using pipecleaners & a hot-melt-glue gun, if you want. . . : )

    Video-card?
    IF you want quiet, go for ATI rather-than NVidia ( fan-speed, I'm talking about, here ),
    and if you want cheap, grab some X300 or something,
    the higher-end cards the X800 XL is a very good bu

  • by Somegeek (624100) on Tuesday November 22 2005, @11:18PM (#14097910)
    Note: highly personal opinions are to follow, but they are the result of building lots of my own computers and fixing way more for other people. Use this list as a guideline to get you started and narrow down from there.

    First, processors. Intel highly overcharged everyone for years until AMD starting giving them some competition. For that reason alone I buy AMD CPUs exclusively - but they just happen to be the best in most every category currently anyway. Get a 64bit dual core processor, let price decide which one. Get the retail version with a fan and a better warranty.

    Motherboard - narrow down by chipset first looking for stability in the drivers etc. Forums can help you a lot here. My advice is go with a motherboard with an Nvidia chipset - they seem to have less bugs and better drivers than VIA. Besides I will be recommending an Nvidia video card and that just helps on the compatibility front. If you are going all new then get a motherboard with PCIe video card slots instead of AGP. Don't get SLI (dual video cards) unless you are really into games and want to spend a lot of money on this.

    Next go find a good vendor, (newegg.com), that's as important as any thing else. Check them out on resellerratings.com - look at their satisfaction ratings from when people need to do returns; (newegg.com) that will tell you the most. Or just go to newegg.com. They are the best general vendor out there (newegg.com) with the best customer service, but a little bit pricey because of it. (newegg.com) :)

    From that vendor get the list of motherboards that meet the goals above, and research those boards on the forums (pcper.com) and find one that people are not having trouble with. Don't worry about the absolute fastest performance, the difference between brands is usually negligible. Asus motherboards are usually a safe bet.

    Video card - get the best Nvidia card your budget will allow. Don't even think about ATI. Buggy cards, buggy drivers, have been that way for years. ATI's idea of adding stability to their drivers is to add a utility that auto-restarts them when they crash. Make sure that the type of video card matches the video card slot on the motherboard - AGP vs. PCIe.

    Memory - get name brand - Corsair, Crucial or Kingston all make me happy.

    HD - get Western Digital (one with a 5 year warranty) or Seagate - you can check storagereview.com for specifics.

    Don't get a cheap power supply - either buy one separately or get a good name brand case with a power supply - antech etc. There are some good power supply reviews around.

    Get nice interface items - keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor. Those items really control how you interact with your computer and are usually overlooked. Go to circuit city or something and try different ones, find out what you like. Personally I go for the Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards and 5 button laser mouse.

    DVD drives, Plextor.is usually a safe bet.

    That's it!
  • by petard (117521) * on Tuesday November 22 2005, @11:37PM (#14098005) Homepage
    As someone else has mentioned, the ars system guides [arstechnica.com] are excellent. They build several different types of system and explain the trade-offs they make very nicely.

    I also happen to really like Dan Bernstein's advice [cr.yp.to], especially for a good *BSD desktop box. Like Ars, Dan does an excellent job explaining why he chose what he did.

    The ars guides are usually almost current. DJB's is not as current. But look at them for the explanations, even if you want newer components. You can apply their advice to the in depth discussions of particular components you'll find at places like Tom's, HardOCP, AnandTech, etc.
  • See Dell [dell.com]

    Really, it is easier, cheaper, unless you want AMD - then you are on your own

  • First, find the newest, greatest component. Second, buy the one that came before it.
  • Catching Up (Score:5, Informative)

    by HunterZ (20035) on Wednesday November 23 2005, @12:24AM (#14098205) Homepage Journal
    You really just have be willing to dive in and soak it all up. Search for FAQs and read forums - there are probably some general and specific guides that are useful, and there are helpful, knowledgeable people out there.

    Another good thing to do is to read articles and reviews on tech sites and window-shop on online stores that sell pre-built rigs to get an idea of what kinds of components are being put in various computers these days. Then, shop around to see what deals are out there and be sure to read reviews of specific components. Most importantly, SEARCH FORUMS (via Google) to see if people have problems with a given component -- I can't stress this enough! My friends and I have been both bitten by buying a compnent without researching it first, and saved by reading people's complaints about it before buying.

    Finally, if you have money don't be afraid to just dive in and buy a bunch of parts. If you're really lost, you're best of getting them from a local parts retailer so you can exchange out anything you accidentally buy that turns out to be incompatible with the rest of your parts.

    If you can't afford to screw up, I'd recommend finding a online store that lets you build a custom system from parts on their site. They usually make sure you can only pick combos that will work, and the price will be better than a totally shrinkwrapped system from a major retailer. You can also then swap out parts in the system as you learn more.

    Either way you go, you'll need to keep at it for a few years before you really know your stuff. Eventually you'll have preferences for brands and price ranges on everything, a list of regular sites and/or stores to get parts from, and hangouts for news, reviews and discussion of components and issues with them.

    Building systems for friends and family (as long as you're willing to do follow up support) is also a good way to figure out what's good and what isn't without wasting your own money >:D

    Here are some personal recommendations based on a decade or two of experience (ramble alert!):
    - Stay away from VIA for motherboard chipsets if you decide to build an AMD-based system. They're better these days, but I've been burned repeatedly over the last half dozen years. In fact, stay away from everyone but Intel or nVidia; nVidia is now my mobo chipset manufacturer of choice, despite dumping the awesome SoundStorm chipset from their newer mobo chipsets (good thing there are DDL PCI cards out now, but Realtek onboard sound is respectable too these days)
    - You get what you pay for with power supplies (up to a point of course). Don't buy that $25 550 Watt power supply because it'll probably blow out in 6 months or the first time it hits anything near 550 Watts - whichever comes first.
    - newegg.com is an awesome online parts retailer. If you're into modding, xoxide.com and directron.com are worth a look, but beware of overpriced items.
    - Don't believe anything that store clerks/sales reps tell you. If you're looking at something in a retail store, go home and research it first and then go back and buy it if you're still interested. Note that you can usually get better deals online, but local retailers are good in a pinch if you need something right away.
    - For those in the Puget Sound area: Fry's is the bomb, and CompuCare is decent. PC Club is so-so. Stay away from CompUSA unless you're really desperate! And never, EVER buy anything computer-related at OfficeWhatever/Staples unless it's printer or scanner related - they're overpriced on everything.
    - Netgear makes excellent network hardware, although I'm in love with the WRT54G/GS (but not the current on-the-shelf versions, which have been neutered) wireless routers due to their ability to run homebrew Linux-based firmware.
    - 64-bit CPUs and PCI Express motherboards & video cards are now worth buying. I plan to upgrade from my 32-bit, AGP 8x system early next year at the latest.
    - nVidia and ATI are neck-and-neck in the video card business right now. Stay away from All-In-Wonde
    • Re:Catching Up (Score:5, Informative)

      by HunterZ (20035) on Wednesday November 23 2005, @12:33AM (#14098231) Homepage Journal
      Forgot to mention that pricewatch.com is a good site for figuring out what the going rate is for various components. I've noticed that there's a somewhat exponential curve in price versus value, and when looking at a range of similar components I try to pick the one that's just before the area of the price curve that starts shooting up really fast.

      It's better to resist the temptation to buy the very top-of-the-line, cutting-edge components; if you don't you'll end up having to deal with more quirks (due to early revision hardware) and will have to wait longer to upgrade, meaning that the parts will be more obsolete by the time you upgrade than more modest ones would have been with a sooner upgrade.

  • Here's a clue if you don't want to think for yourself:

    1) Athlon64 architecture rules, just dump Intel.
    2) Better yet, wait for their new socket design to appear early next year or so, since the current Athlon64 socket interface is about to die, and the new has twice the memory speed.
    3) When you see the new Athlon64's come out, look at the price curve of the various speed offerings in the new socket. Pick the one somewhere in the middle just before the price goes skyrocketing upwards - that one's probably yo
  • You want a working system that allows you to customize a good starting point and you want it to be built around the latest tech?

    Check this out http://filtechcomputer.com/Product/syspack.asp?nS y sPackID=1032 [filtechcomputer.com] Been drueling over it, they'll build and test it for you. Remember it's in $CND so it's basically about $830 U.S and the X2 3800 would be 340 on it's own.

    I might consider upgrading to a DVD burner and swapping out the Vid card but they'll let you do that.
  • It all becomes a lot simpler if you decide what you actually use your computer for.

    If it's games, then you will need PCI-Express, preferably 2 slots. If it's office / web stuff, then buy whatever is cheap but quality - speed really isn't a factor so save a few bucks by avoiding top end CPUs/GPUs/RAM (don't skimp on the HD, keyboard, mouse, or monitor though). If you want a PC for a home theatre setting, then noise level is crucial and size is very important - nowadays, that's generally AMD territory, sin
  • You sound like you might be someone who decides to open up the case and upgrade in a few years. Before you go with Dell, Google for "Dell ATX" and decide whether you really want to trust them or not.

    Oh, also, search for "Sony DRM" and see how you feel about rewarding them with your money.

    Finally, insist on a 10 year warranty on all capacitors.

  • Generally... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Shads (4567) <shadus@shad[ ]org ['us.' in gap]> on Wednesday November 23 2005, @07:20AM (#14099282) Homepage Journal
    ... the tomshardware forums are great for specing a system togeather with feedback about the components.

    I'd highly suggest an
    AMD 3500+ on an ASUS A8N-SLI 32X Deluxe Motherboard.

    This gives you pretty good options for the future-- processor upgrades from single core to duel core, single video card to duel video card, plenty of pci slots, sata, usb, firewire, etc.

    I've been extremely happy with my older a8n-sli.
    • Re:Drivers. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nmos (25822)
      If there isn't a Free driver available I won't buy it. That excludes some of the hardware but I can still manage.

      Agreed, even as a purely practical matter having free drivers available tends to improve your odds of being able to use it with some future/different OS/kernel. Most geeks (at least the kind that build their own systems) tend to have more than one computer and often pass systems/components down to others and try out different OSs. In general hardware with Free drivers tends to use standard int