Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Satellite Internet for Gaming?

Posted by Cliff on Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:55 PM
from the if-the-only-other-choice-is-dial-up dept.
SphericalCrusher asks: "I have been using Comcast high-speed internet for the last three years. Before that, I used Bellsouth DSL and then random dial-up services — but I have to say that overall, I love Comcast the best. Now that my parents are moving, to a new house some 12 miles away, and having no money for my own place, I'll have to move with them . The thing is, the road that it is on is pretty far off the highway, and after calling all broadband providers in the area, I've found out that broadband is not available at my new location. Charter Cable Communications covers the entire area of Summerville, Georgia except mine and neither Bellsouth or Alltel offer DSL. Now, I'm forced to either go back to dial-up or try out a satellite broadband service, which is what I want to do. Has anyone here had any success in gaming online with satellite internet?"
"After purchasing the modem and cords off of eBay for DirecWay (now HughesNet), I'm ready to get satellite internet (we had everything else we needed at the new house). However, has anyone here used satellite and actually enjoyed it? I play a good bit of online games, such as World of WarCraft, Quake IV, and F.E.A.R. and I know gaming online with those will not be the same (the satellite is 25,000+ miles from Earth) because of latency issues. Will the high latency seriously affect the overall download and upload speeds?"
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by blackcoot (124938) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:00PM (#16123052)
    so probably not suitable for gaming.
  • Considering how much the next gen consoles cost, I'm not getting private satellite for multiplayer. Besides, the ping rate probably sucks during a solar storm.
  • by SaDan (81097) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:03PM (#16123067) Homepage
    Will the high latency seriously affect the overall download and upload speeds?


    Speed isn't going to kill gameplay as much as latency will. Who cares if you're able to burst 2Mbit/second when it takes you half a second to register commands you send through the game realtime. Frag city, my friend.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Internet [wikipedia.org]
    • I supported Satellite for a few years and heard nothing but complaints about it from gamers. For surfing, its fine most of the time, but gaming - no way. Its picky, especially when it snows, wind, etc. Kind of like some of those anti-satellite commercials you see every once in awhile.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Poster is correct... it will suck, and suck badly.
       
      Better solution is to find a neighbor who CAN get cable, you pay for it, and set up a wireless bridge with a couple of 21dB directional antennas. With good line of sight, you can get a mile with no problem and about $200 in hardware. Even further if you pay more for better antennas.
      • Good advice if you have a neighbor friendly enough. Be wary of the legal issues, tho. Some cable companies might consider this "re-distributing" the service and it might be against their TOS.

        It's not very likely that they'll even detect it, but better safe than sorry.

        A couple of years ago, you could get a decent spread spectrum ethernet bridge very cheap (full set for less than $500). I guess prices should be better today.
        • I would do it anyway until they provide the last mile.

          Technically, the remote user would be the customer and is willing to pay for the services.
          It's the cable company that isn't willing to provide services.
  • by The MAZZTer (911996) <(megazzt) (at) (gmail.com)> on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:08PM (#16123084) Homepage
    *cough* [elite.net]
  • Nope. (Score:3, Informative)

    by antdude (79039) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:24PM (#16123143) Homepage Journal
    From what I read, satellite Internet services haven't improved in terms of latency. WISP should be decent if you can get that.
  • Cost (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jpmkm (160526) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:27PM (#16123150) Homepage
    You could probably pay a couple months' rent on an apartment with the setup and equipment costs for satellite internet. It's not cheap. And it's no good for most types of online gaming.
    • You could probably pay a couple months' rent on an apartment with the setup and equipment costs for satellite internet.

      The current deal with HNS is $400 for installation and equipment. If you pay $200/mo rent for an apartment in the US, I really don't want to visit that area.

      They offer a plan to ammortize the setup and equipment over 16 months, and the interest rate is 0%, so it's $25/mo equipment costs.

      For games, I would go with dial-up, my understanding is that game packets are very small and don't take
  • You can play online games, but you won't be satisfied with the performance. Typically, you can manage a latency of 200 on Counterstrike, which was the last online game I used with satellite. Check out a wireless internet provider. It can offer a better ping, and can easily be stretched 12 miles from broadband. Good luck, and if nothing else, look at this as an opportunity to branch out into some new online activities. BTW, the new equipment wont change your PING, just the up and download speed and the s
  • by Jack Pallance (998237) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:35PM (#16123177) Homepage Journal
    Let me see if I under stand the issue: 1. Living in parents' basement 2. Focus most of your time playing computer games 3. Biggest problem is getting faster Internet connection I don't know. Have you asked your girlfriend yet? Oh wait, I'm really sorry...
  • In short, NO! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Daniel Wood (531906) on Sunday September 17 2006, @12:03AM (#16123288) Homepage Journal
    Long version:
    Speed of Light = 299792.458 kilometers / second
    Geostationary satellites are at an altitude of ~35786 kilometers.

    This means that just for the radio wave to travel to and from the satellite, you are adding around 238 milliseconds. That is just one way, the return trip is another 238ms MINIMUM.

    This doesn't account for signal conversions, modulation, demodulation(the preceeding are mostly negligable), latency from the ground station to the host, etc. You would be lucky to EVER see under 580ms ping using satellite.

    Even the providers do not recommend gaming.
    Link: http://www.wafa.ae/en/vsat/aboutsatinternetpg2.asp x [www.wafa.ae]

    My terminology may be a little different than others are used to, that is because I am a Satellite Network Controller in the Army and use the military terms.
  • by Cecil (37810) on Sunday September 17 2006, @12:16AM (#16123312) Homepage
    It depends on the game. World of Warcraft or a RTS/Strategy game might be tolerable. Any first-person-shooter will not be. When it takes 500ms for you to see what just happened and then for your commands to register... oops, you're dead.

    Latency on dialup is generally around 150-300ms. Latency on Satellite is limited by the speed of light and starts at an absolute, physical limit of 240ms, assuming that the radio signal is actually travelling at the speed of light (it isn't), no retransmissions need to take place (they will), the satellite isn't processing or juggling your data stream at all (it is), the satellite isn't oversubscribed (it is), and the game server you're connected to is directly connected to the other end of the satellite downlink (it isn't).

    Expect latency of 400ms or more, sometimes much more. And for WoW, note the Latency the game tells you. Much of that is on the server end. When WoW's lagging and you have a latency of 500ms or more in-game, probably less than 100ms of that is due to your current broadband connection. So you can take the remaining 400ms and add that to your satellite latency as well. Now you're looking at almost 1 second before you can react to what's happening in the game.

    Might I suggest trashing the dish and looking for terrestrial radio internet instead? Like WiMAX or EV-DO. Good luck.
  • Has anyone here had any success in gaming online with satellite internet?

    No.

    Well, let me go into a bit more detail:

    Hahahahahahahaha! No Flipping Way, Sucker! Hahahaha!

    Also: Yet another Ask Slashdot question that can be answered by Google and common sense. Satellite = 600+ms latency. What do you do with people with that much latency in your Quake 4 game? Oh right, you kick their asses. WOW *might* be marginally tolerable... but I doubt it.
  • I actually knew someone who had both. She used satellite for work, basically anything that needed fast Internet, but dialup for gaming. And we were playing an MMO -- if you're into any kind of FPS, forget it, satellite won't work.
  • well, go with dialup and either a LOS system or SAT. both are going to suck and thats the price you pay for living off the grid.
  • by Wiseleo (15092) on Sunday September 17 2006, @01:06AM (#16123441) Homepage
    Edge is 144kbps and there are faster technologies. I used VPN over plain GPRS as well.

    This will beat your satellite broadband in terms of usability.
    • You raise a good point; my father just purchased a broadband connection for his laptop from Sprint. Talk about "true" wireless internet...
  • Wifi? (Score:2, Interesting)

    Nobody has mentioned this so far: why not go with plain old 802.11g? All you need is a friend with broadband with a clear line of sight to your place and a couple Pringles can antennas. Sure, it'll be crap when it's raining, but it's cheap.
  • Another solution... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Money for Nothin' (754763) on Sunday September 17 2006, @01:44AM (#16123527)
    If you're so far out in the sticks that you must resort to satellite instead of Comcast or DSL, then here's my suggestion:

    Start a local ISP. Do a little market research on your area; find out what kind of demand there is for fast, low-latency Internet access. If the demand is sufficient to both pay for the service and employ you (and if you're interested), then get a T1, T3, or if possible, fiber run or two to your door. Share it among everybody you can find and run the service yourself.

    Then play Quake 4, F.E.A.R., etc. during the down times on your fast line when nobody's calling you for support. :-)
    • I looked into this once. A T-1 equivalent (frame relay) would have cost me about $500/month. At my location, a T-1 from SBC would have cost about $1800/month.

      You'll have last mile issues, which are always expensive. Maybe if there's a phone exchange near you, you can get a DSLAM in, if the phone company doesn't laugh you out of their office. Cable would involve a lot of equipment, know-how, and rights to use the poles (no idea there, but I'm certain they don't just let you staple your own lines on the p
  • You'll be able to totally pwnz0r people in chess!

    For everything else it'll pretty much suck. Rumor has it one of those companies had to implement their own FTP client because the ping times were so high that the regular one thought the connection had been lost and gave up.


  • Keep in mind, I have no idea how well this is supported with any ISP anymore.

    However, some years ago, I was in an area that was far outside of any access range. The only real alternative I had was ISDN. I believe at the time, it was 39.99 a month, and you did have a limit on the number of B channel hours you could have, but I never found myself over that limit (200). You get about 16K/sec, which isn't great at all bandwidth-wise, but it was very good on latency. I found it perfectly acceptable for gaming, a
    • Again, i'm not sure on most major ISPs, but I used to be an admin for a smaller ISP, and our Cisco 5200/5300 access servers (primarily set up for V.90 56K) would accept ISDN calls just fine, and run 64kb (per B channel) digital/digital connections just fine.

      May be worth a shot just asking them, as their equipment quite possibly supports both call types - i'd hazard a guess that it's more an accounting issue than a technical one...

  • If you have good signal strength you might be able to use a cellular data service. Just make sure you're allowed to use it as your primary data service and you can access the cell companies high speed network where you are going, you don't want to get stuck on gprs. You might want to check out howardforums.com, otherwise I'd go with ISDN.
  • by EvilMal (562717) on Sunday September 17 2006, @02:29AM (#16123635)
    I'm on Direcway's asstastic service right now.

    It's $60/mo for me. That $60 lets me download about 160mb a day before I hit the "Fair Access Policy" which caps me at about 4-5kB/s for the next twelve hours. The speeds up to that point are okay, but it still sucks ass. $60/mo for that!?

    Okay, well, you didn't mention a concern about downloads. You want games! Well, no. It's not going to work. If I go into a server for any given FPS game with this thing my ping is about 500-900. It's never, ever less than 400. If you're concerned enough about gaming to ask slashdot about this, I'm sure you understand exactly what devastating effects that would have on gameplay. There are other posts in this discussion about the speed of light being the limiting factor. It's really true. It takes about a quarter second to half a second for your signal to even reach a server and come back.

    I was in your same situation. My parents were moving and I can't afford, yet, to live on my own. So I moved with them to the middle of nowhere. Now I made the wrong choice and I have what I would describe as the shittiest ISP I have ever used (I haven't used AOL. Not sure how that would compare. :P). I got this because I had to keep my system up to date (doing development work, etc - yes, out of my parents' house) and I'm addicted to pornography and demand easy and quick access to it.

    If things like pornography and downloading music, videos, or other big content are not important to you, do not get this. You will NOT play games at any adequate level on this kind of connection.

    Turn based games are okay.

    Keep a dialup account handy to play anything else, though.
    • It's also not very good for streaming media, or rather, it doesn't work at all, I don't know why they can't or don't do it.
  • solution: use the sat for downloading updates and dial up to game. dial is not that bad at latency and a lot of games have optimized to send as small a packets as possible but often. So dial works for that. The wirelss GPRS solutions dont' work well because often no DSL = horrible cell coverage. So while you can get 144 kbit/s under the tower on a clear day you get closer to 4kbit/s at the remote locations where dsl/cable isn't available.

  • Another option for you can be ISDN or IDSL. IDSL is basically DSL over ISDN lines, and it will give you a slight edge over dialup (in the boonies, 19.2kbps conect rates are not unusual), and should have decent latencey. Frankly, you will not be gaming on a satellite Internet connection.
  • I am on satellite right now. Latency is a minimum of 600 milliseconds so games like Counter Strike are completely unplayable. I do play Eve Online and it is not so bad, quite playable for the most part. I have friends here who play City of Heroes and World of Warcraft and they have no problems with either of those games.

    In short, if response time is absolutely critical, the game will be unplayable. If response time is important, you will get frustrated. If response time is not important, satellite kicks ass
  • Most people responding here don't seem to have real experience with current-gen satellites and gaming.

    Gaming is very possible on both Wildblue and HughesNet 7000. It really comes down to the game though, and how it handles lag. Obviously Satellite gaming is never a prefered solution, but many games are easily playable with 700-850ms pings (average DW7000 and Wildblue ping).

    Most all MMOs are playable - even Planetside and Auto Assault.
    Some RTS are playable (Warcraft 3 works for example).
    PC-based FPS are ve
  • is check the availability/price in order-

    freind/girlfreind with DSL/cable
    WiFi
    ISDN (bonded if possible)
    3G
    T1 (fractional is possible)
    Satellite

    Honestly if your parents chose to move to a place without broadband and you're a geek, and they don't get that broadband is a requirement for your life I would leave as soon as humanly possible.
  • Satellite Internet talks to a (you guessed it) Satellite in geostationary orbit. Geostationary orbit is roughly 3.6 x 10^7 meters from the surface of the earth. Before your packets can join the rest of the internet, they have to go up to the satellite and back down. When they come back from the server, they have to go up to the satellite and back down again. Now you're talking 1.44 x 10^8 meters that a packet has to travel (round trip).

    Light speed is roughly 3.0 x 10^8 meters per second. So, in your best ca
  • If only there were some quicker, more efficient way of answering this question. Some sort of engine that would be good at searching for things. A searching engine if you will. Then you could simply type in satellite internet gaming [google.com] and get the answer. Oh for such a wonderful device...
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Goddamn! Get a job, or a loan, and get the fuck out of your momma's basement

      For some people, in some parts of the world, that may seem like an easy solution to the problem but this isn't the case in general; personally, I live in Calgary where (because of the oil boom) it is not uncommon to pay $1100 per month for a bachelor suit or $1500 for a two bedroom. If you are (like me) a well employeed software developer you can afford to live on your own (or with a roomate) but the vast majority of people who work
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          People in New York don't pay assloads (~40% income + 7% sales tax) of tax.
          Prices for every day goods are also higher in Canada.
          • Perhaps people are more productive when they game occasionally instead of overworking themselves? Oh wait, you probably use a Mac, so you have no games.
    • I wouldn't have been so mean, especially not knowing anything about his life... but, I share your sentiments. Why not take this opportunity (no gaming distractions) to learn a trade or improve your current situation in life? My apologies if you are disabled or have extenuating circumstances, but if you are financially bound to your parents and are of working age, it might be time for a little self-reflection.

      To stay on topic, satellite is going to have too much latency for real-time gaming, and there's not

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Or the guy could just be going to school locally and instead of dropping $600 a month on a shitty closet of a dorm room plus the cost of food, he's staying with his parents, maybe helping them fix their new place up.
        By doing that, he's saving $7200 plus food, which is significant.
        Even moreso when you consider that you're going to have to work an aditional ~30% just to pay the taxman.
        Dorm life is fun, but when you're kept up every night by the douchebag in the next room, the assholes who think it's fine to l
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      As far as I know, you need a dialup modem for your upstream so that won't help.

      Perhaps for more Civilian/off-the-shelf solutions, but for big-ish commercial grade stuff you can receive and transmit through the dish. I work for a Canadian oilfield service company that has just gotten a whack of dishes on most of our Fracturing datavans that support both transmit and receive. Its pretty cool, actually, being way out in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no cell phone service and still having high speed i
    • He might be better off with a service which uses dialup for upstream data.
      In games which send little data but you have to receive a lot more data, sending data up through dialup would get it into the game faster, while the larger bursts from the game might arrive faster through the satellite. It depends upon how much data has to be downloaded in each update and how often an update takes place.
      There would still be more lag than with a faster uplink, but an issue is how much better than a simple dialup can
    • HughesNet (formerly DirecPC) and WildBlue both offer two-way, self-hosted (their satellite modem just has a standard ethernet jack to connect to) systems. In my experience with it, latency is high (around dialup levels or sometimes a little bit slower even), but bandwidth can vary from so-so (on an unknown HughesNet contract) to pretty good but below advertised (for the WildBlue system that was supposed to be 1.5 mbits down)
      • I wouldn't worry about the lag as much as the usual fair usage problems. Generaly, with ever satalite internet service i have seen, they have a hidden clause saying you only get to use so much bandwidth at high speeds and if you go over that it slows you way the hell down.

        Here is a fair use/access policy from wildblue [wild-blue.coop]. As you can see, it has some limits that could cause them to yank the service. I'm not sure if constant gaming with do it or not but I first found out about it several years ago when someone w
    • by l33td00d42 (873726) on Saturday September 16 2006, @11:34PM (#16123175)
      >Communications satellites are in geosynchronous orbit, roughly 30,000 miles above the earth. Even if you have satellite both ways (vs. the more common satellite for download, modem for upload) the speed of light limits your absolute theoretical minimum ping time to about 1/3 of a second (333ms).

      A ping is a round-trip and the internet is not in geosynchronous orbit, so it's roughly a 120,000 mi trip or minimum of 2/3 of a second.
        • Two of my good friends use satellite, both directions (no phone needed) and both regularly play Guildwars and WoW. I'll agree its not going to be good for twitch-gaming, but it does work just fine for some types of games, and there is more to gaming than twitch FPSs.
    • But gaming is low throughput .. it depends more on latency .. and guess what happens when you send a signal up, bounce it off something in space, and send it back down. You guessed it. Shitty gaming.

      I had satillite for a brief while. It almost doesn't matter how far along the technology gets, the physical limitations of the technology make it completely unsuitable for gaming.
    • by exi1ed0ne (647852) <exile@pessim i s t s.net> on Sunday September 17 2006, @11:47AM (#16125067) Homepage
      I've got satellite, since I live out in the sticks. No ISDN, no Cable. Heck, it took the phone company three weeks to figure out how to activate my phone service. Latency is an issue, but the pipe is T1-ish or better once it gets going.

      Actual pings via my WildBlue connection (pro package):
      64 bytes from 82.165.178.138: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=1040.5 ms
      64 bytes from 82.165.178.138: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=591.3 ms
      64 bytes from 82.165.178.138: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=698.5 ms
      64 bytes from 82.165.178.138: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=606.3 ms
      64 bytes from 82.165.178.138: icmp_seq=4 ttl=50 time=709.0 ms
      --- 82.165.178.138 ping statistics ---
      5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
      round-trip min/avg/max = 591.3/729.1/1040.5 ms

      Verdict: gaming sucks, way better than dialup, way way better than nothing.