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Budgeting for Layoffs?
Posted by
Cliff
on Sat May 13, 2006 06:30 PM
from the preparation-for-living-without-a-paycheck dept.
from the preparation-for-living-without-a-paycheck dept.
The Waxed Yak asks: "After reading the Slashdot tech worker unionization story, I started wondering: What are other IT workers doing to prepare for potential layoffs?"
"We're all at risk of it, be it from actual layoffs or loss of employment for other reasons. My personal approach has been to live off about 1/3rd of my earnings and bank the rest, even though that means living in a hovel and driving an older car. Worst case scenario, I get to retire early.
I recently became completely self employed, which has made it all the more important to save. I understand many Slashdot readers have families to support, so they don't have the same option for savings that I currently enjoy. As I hope to have a family to support in the near future, I would be interested in tips or techniques to prepare for this situation. Judging by the posts in the unionization thread, many of you are dependent on a steady income to provide for their families. Hopefully this thread can provide some ideas for them as well."
I recently became completely self employed, which has made it all the more important to save. I understand many Slashdot readers have families to support, so they don't have the same option for savings that I currently enjoy. As I hope to have a family to support in the near future, I would be interested in tips or techniques to prepare for this situation. Judging by the posts in the unionization thread, many of you are dependent on a steady income to provide for their families. Hopefully this thread can provide some ideas for them as well."
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News: Tech Workers of the World Unite? 1254 comments
okidokedork writes "Wired News reports on the lack of unions in the IT workplace. If you could join a union in your workplace, would you?" From the article: "The rich get richer, the shareholder is valued more than the employee, jobs are eliminated in the name of bottom-line efficiency (remember when they called firing people 'right-sizing'?) and the gulf between the rich and the working class grows wider every year. You see this libertarian ethos everywhere, but nowhere more clearly than in the technology sector, where the number of union jobs can be counted on one hand. Tech is the Wild West as far as the job market goes and the robber barons on top of the pile aim to keep it that way. They'll offshore your job to save a few bucks or lay you off at the first sign of a slump, but they're the first to scream, 'You're stifling innovation!' at any attempt to control the industry or provide job security for the people who do the actual work."
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Question or Comment??? (Score:4, Funny)
If you're self-employed, you're not laid off. (Score:2)
I'm also self-employed. You budget just as you would if you were employed
Re:If you're self-employed, you're not laid off. (Score:2)
Avoid the simple-IRA, because it's not simple and the SEP is usually a better deal.
Roth IRAs are a great way to save your post-tax income for retirement since once you retire, all the returns remain untaxed.
Both of these are better than doing just C
Re:If you're self-employed, you're not laid off. (Score:3, Informative)
Saving/Investing is, in that sense, a bit like engineering. You do your best to make a good decision with incomplete information. There's no way to know what will happen in the future, so you make the best decisions you can and try to recognize the various risks and account for them somehow.
Another quote I like: Making pred
Re:Question or Comment??? (Score:2)
What?!? 'cheap jabs' on Slashdot, one wouldn't think of such a thing. Seriously, 2/3rd of your submission details how great you are, now, 70% of your reply does the same. Good for you, like many (but not all) Slashdotters, I'm very happy for you.
You know I've heard the stories about 3 year layoffs, frankly I've always thought "what the hell were they doing for THREE YEARS". Th
Re:Question or Comment??? (Score:2)
It's good that you have savings, but also consider diversifying your portfolio. If it's all in dollars, your might be screwed by the people in charge -- massive budget deficits, trade imbalance, outsourcing manufacturing... The dollar may not be worth as much in
Re:Question or Comment??? (Score:2)
I've never understood people who get laid off for 3 years... they've got to have either unrealistic salary expectations or
Re:Question or Comment??? (Score:3, Interesting)
I had a bit over 13 years of experience as a programmer/analyst when I was laid off in January 2002, mainly weird languages like Fortran and assembler and various macro languages, but also with some decent experience in C, Perl, Pascal, REXX, and a number of other more mainstream languages, experience with RDMSs like Sybase, as well as a LOT of medium- and large-scale applications design and high-pressure support experience.
I got nothing at all except one 8-m
Me personally (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, no matter how automated a plant may get, there still needs to be a person to fix the machine when it breaks.
Okay so my point is to always have a back up plan to fall on. You have more interests, I'm sure, than just computers. Capitalize on them. Wheather it be mechanics or landscaping or whate have you.
In the last James Bond movie to feature Q: "Never let them see you bleed, and always have an escape plan."
Other fields (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, pimpin ain't easy, but that don't make it hard.
Budget (Score:4, Interesting)
However, as such, that money is invested quite aggressively. I make stock purchases that tend to be risky. Of course, it has paid off even in the short run, with the 30% savings pushing near 45% annual gain (not including additional cash put in).
I'd rather live modestly for a long period of time than live well and spend a lot only to lose a job and have to risk moving back to a frugal lifestyle.
Re:Budget (Score:2)
This has been my approach, pretty much my whole life. Even though my family had a pretty good income when I was growing up, my parents both grew up as WWII-era working-class kids with stereotypically frugal Dutch parents. So they taught me not just to live within my means, but within within my means.
At times I've made pretty good money myself, but I've
Re:Budget (Score:2)
In other words, you are fooling your
Re:Budget (Score:5, Informative)
Look into how a bank makes loans, and what it does with your money when you "save" it with them. They don't keep it locked in a vault for you, like money under a mattress; they loan it back out to people, and pay you out of their fractional reserves when you come calling.
In essence (and I'm glossing over a lot of my Monetary Policy class in college), the bank is making an investment on your behalf. They charge a higher interest rate to the loan recipient than they pay you to keep your money "saved" with them -- this is how banks make a profit.
I mentioned being paid out of the bank's fractional reserve. Because the bank has loaned-out money to people (businesses and individuals), it doesn't have everybody's money at the bank -- it's out being spent by somebody else who thinks they can turn a profit and pay back the bank with the money they make. What happens if everybody goes to the bank and demands their money back, and the bank doesn't have enough available -- i.e., what happens if you see a bank run? Your bank borrows what they need from other banks. Worst-case scenario, they go to the "bank of last resort", a.k.a. a Federal Reserve bank. The Fed waves a magic wand (seriously, it is not transparent enough for anybody besides the Fed to know precisely what they are doing), buys/sells bonds through "open-market operations", and as necessary, creates new money -- which causes inflation. In essence, if the Fed can't handle a bank run (the last time this happened was just prior to the Great Depression, and in fact, is considered by most economists now to be the reason the Depression was as bad as it was), we're all hosed. That said, since the Depression, it has handled some monstrous ones (including Russia's failure to repay its bond commitments, which led to the decline of the Ruble, causing the collapse of some big-name financial firms like Long-Term Capital Management [wikipedia.org]). (OK, I'm not glossing-over as much Monetary Policy as I thought I would...)
Here's a dirty little secret about the FDIC, which insures the money you "save" at the bank: the FDIC only insures about 1-2% of the nation's fractional reserves. Hence, no matter how you slice it, If another Depression-style bank run occurs, we are all fucked.
In truth, savings and investment are considered more-or-less the same thing by economists today, because in the end, they *are* the same thing.
Yours,
A youngster who "saves" in mutual funds... (and in a high-rate savings account, and only what is necessary for paying bills from a checking account. Most of my savings are in my 401k for retirement though...)
Parent
Re:Budget (Score:2)
In truth, savings and investment are considered more-or-less the same thing by economists today, because in the end, they *are* the same thing.
Point taken, but there's still a difference between savings and investments; with investments, you can l
Re:Budget (Score:2)
No, no financial professional considers them to be the same. (The slicker elements of the of the financial profession like to blur the line - because they make commissions off of investment churn, and none off of savings.) The risk v. reward ratio is, to put it mildly, extraordinarily different. (Not to mention tax issues.)
Re:Budget (Score:2)
Besides, I enjoy my jo
Give up (Score:2, Interesting)
W-4 employment, along with nearly all IT "skills" is obsolete. Companies and the people who manage them no longer have the huevos to employ people. They would much rather shirk their responsibilities to the communities they insist on shoving their products at. They want it all for free. They want free access to free markets with free labor and free equipment, free buildings, free services and free use of all the infrastructure necessary f
Psst (Score:2)
Re:Give up (Score:2)
The eggs to employ people??
Re:Give up (Score:2)
Re:Give up (Score:2)
We also tax the baJEEZUS
That's hardly off topic (Score:3, Interesting)
Hell, I've got mucho karma, so I can afford to tell it like it is.
The whole reason people have to save up so much money is exactly because of what cubicledrone said.
And to the idiot who said all cubicledrone wants is a Government guaranteed job, that's horse shit. I'm a Reagan Republican, I believe a man should work not live on welfare. You Johnny come lately laissez-faire rabid dogs that call yourselves Republicans today, want to snatch every job known to man
Re:Give up (Score:2)
I myself have been employed at several places where if they could have chained me to the desk, they would have. The only reason that they didn't is because those pesky laws regarding wage and working conditions kept them from doing it.
The US isn't run by the federal government. It's run by the people who get the government elected.
Re:Give up (Score:2)
Land of the free??
Re:Give up (Score:2)
A little secret for you: the HR department's primary purpose is to weed out
Re:Give up (Score:2)
If you know 8 languages (presumably fairly well, that's about the number I'm at, depending on how you count the C derivitives), why don't you go into business for yourself. I realize it's the new ma
Re:Give up (Score:2)
we IT workers are the most advantageous (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially programmers, designers, web developers, or any information technology service or counseling / technical support, anything that can be performed remote :
We have the internet.
When you get laid off, even in the u.s., you have the chance to put your resume & experience in a post titled 'experienced
Sure wages are not that high, comparable to when you work full time on-site.
But then again, a hourly $15 should be enough thinking you are working from home ? or from a remote site on vacation - hell, practically anywhere in the world.
Our professions are the most suitable for the internet - no surprise, as we are the ones that built it.
That might not seem enough, a mere $15, however there is no limit as to how many projects you can take on or at the same time how many hourly paid jobs you can manage - handle 3 simultaneous work, get $45 in total - no contractor will object to you as long as you handle their work fittingly. That is something you cant do while working on-site : work on someone elses stuff for an hour, get busted, youre in trouble.
I understand that many have families and people to support, and quite a many have become accustomed to rather high living standards.
So what ? if we lower our standards a bit in such times, we can work anywhere, anytime.
And note that, not having a profession that is required to be registered, unionized, guildized etc nowhere in the world, makes us capable of working ANYWHERE.
Too high taxes in u.s. ? Move to some other country where you are allowed to live in, just start working there. Its that simple.
On top of that, many countries will be pleased to have more it workers.
Unionization, regulation and etc are not to our advantage, but to our disadvantage. Keep in mind that organisations always fail to represent the masses they set out to represent - because only the rich, powerful & influential enough can spare enough resources to get on the helm of any of them. Then the result leads to manipulation and molding of the related masses to some other power's interest, and that generally becomes the industry bosses.
So far so good, were not mine workers, we can easily find ways to sustain ourselves, heck, even prosper (we are always free to use our skills to set up our own job, and we can do it with minimum capital) whenever we get laid off.
Maybe we are not that safe always, but, for the first time in the world history maybe, we have more freedom than any profession member had on the face of the world.
Re:we IT workers are the most advantageous (Score:5, Insightful)
A quick look at the history of the 20th century as compared to the the rest of human history would instantaneously prove you wrong. The 20th century saw the most regulation and unionisation in human history. It also saw the greatest period of social and technological growth the human race has ever seen.
Too high taxes in u.s. ? Move to some other country where you are allowed to live in, just start working there. Its that simple.
That may be possible for a multi-lingual 25 year old with no family or friends. How about the other 99% of the population? I've lived in 3 other countries apart from the UK and I'm telling you right now, it's not "simple" at all, and I didn't have a wife and children to relocate as well.
Parent
Re:we IT workers are the most advantageous (Score:2)
As for families, having a family and roots is ALWAYS hard whether you are unionized or not. What will happen if a plant closes and union gets a deal elsewhere ? Youll move, as a family and thats it. Whats the difference ? At least , in it field, you do
May I suggest a subscription to... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:May I suggest a subscription to... (Score:2)
"Be prepared." (Score:3, Interesting)
While one can't go wrong with having money in the bank (or a fund) earning interest, my family's philosophy is to reduce monetary need first then put money away. I recently downgraded my job from $45k/yr to ~$17k/yr, and our standard of living hasn't suffered.
One poster on this thread has mentioned she doesn't wish to "risk" being forced into a "frugal" lifestyle. Our take on things is live frugally by default and you live with much worry in the long run.
Re:"Be prepared." (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Be prepared." (Score:2)
Many times, it is not 'luck' that leads to financial success, but hard work and sacrifice.
We spend money on what we want and what we need. A few people want savings, so they "spend" some of their money on savings (to varying degrees).
A few key things (Score:3, Informative)
- Know what's going on in the job market. For me, that includes jobs in my hometown and network management (netcool, concord, cisco, etc) jobs anywhere in North America.
- Apply for jobs even if you think that it may not be a good fit for you. At least it provides good experience in writing a resume and cover letter, and possibly interview experience as well.
- Keep a minimum balance in a bank account, say $7000. These are emergency funds, and I think being laid off counts.
- If your company has a share ownership plan, get out if it, or at least make routine transfers out to another account. If the company is considering layoffs, there is a good chance they are not performing well, and that includes stock price. The last thing you want is to be hit with a double whammy of being unemployed and seeing your retirement income evaporate.
- Whatever training you can get at your current job, take it.
- Lastly, try and stay positive. Enjoy life to the fullest outside of work.
Re:A few key things (Score:2)
For the love of god, please stop wasting your time... and mine... with this.
My boss and I are are trying to hire someone, and the majority of the resumes we're getting are for people who obviously don't fit what we're looking for. They don't even bother lying to us to make it look like they are. Listen: We're not that desperate. We're not going to hire someone who just might theoretically be good at what we need after several mont
Re:A few key things (Score:2)
Maybe that utter cluelessness is why no one will hire you. The beginning of wisdom is understanding what you don't know, and it sounds like you're not there yet. The irony is that it usually takes experience to grasp why experience is important.
Sorry, kid, but there are a lot of jobs where just being well educated and highly motivated don't cut it. I'm no
Re:A few key things (Score:2)
I like to follow the general rule of thumb: first accumulate six months easily-liquidatable assets. That is, six months of your current salary. Then, acquire two years of non-retirement assets--of your current salary. When you get fired, you won't continue to consume income at the same pace. However, you will have a rough guess as to how long you can coast . .
Some would consider $7k one-month's assets. It's probably good to have a month in your primary
Over here, it's mandatory (Score:3, Interesting)
Usually, plenty of time to find a new job.
Retirement is taken care of, too, so that's, at least in theory, no issue either.
Still, I try to spend no more than 1/2 of my income. Being able to rely on the system is nice. It gives you a sense of security. Not relying on it gives you a feeling of independence, though.
Investment (Score:2)
Re:Investment (Score:2)
He has a lot of general consumer advice, but he often talks about investments and saving for retirement.
In general:
1) save in your company 401k/403B, etc up to the point where your company matches
2) then save to the max you can in a ROTH IRA
3) then save more in your company 401K since it's pre-tax
4) invest additional money in something like mutual funds. Pick ones with no-loads. You'll probably do well with an indexed fund like an
Never take vacation (Score:3, Interesting)
Always have enough money to walk away (Score:2)
Someone smart once told me that in addition to savings, you should always have enough money spare to be able to walk away from your job and last you until you get a new one. This ranks as some of the best advice ever given - it gives you, especially while you're young, just that little bit of extra confidence to stand up for yourself and to push back on management, which I've found leads to a better feedback loop between you and your managers, removes 'silent grumbling', and has (in the past) lead to a far
Re:Always have enough money to walk away (Score:2)
Here is another perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
Been there, done that (Score:3, Informative)
When you're unemployed, you need to lower your (cash) burn rate. We reduced unnecessary car trips, eating at restaurants, and most entertainment. We also shopped for food bargains and used coupons. We had several services we subscribed to on a monthly basis. Only those that were absolutely neccessary stayed. We kept internet access, as that was needed for my job search.
We substituted free entertainment for the movies, trips, etc. That included bicycling, local parks, and books and DVD's from the library. One unpleasant surprise expense was health insurance. Companies are required to offer COBRA coverage (i.e. you get company health insurance for 18 months, but your pay. They set the price). Family coverage cost $900 per month! Had I continued to be unemployed, we would have had to switch to a (non-employer) cheaper 'hospital only' plan.
I'm working now (ironically at the place that layed me off). My wife has re-trained (outside of IT) to provide some employment diversification. My daughter has changed her career objectives to avoid IT.
If you're in IT, accumulate sufficient savings, prepare a contingency plan, keep your resume up to date, monitor your cash burn rate. Don't over-invest in your company's stock. Don't live beyond your means, or paycheck to paycheck. If you're thinking about entering the IT field - don't do it.
Keep your skills up-to-date (Score:3, Interesting)
It also doesn't hurt to have a hobby that you can turn into a job. An old manager of mine used to do woodworking as a hobby. When he got laid off from a 200k/year job, he decided to retire from tech and be a professional woodworker. Needless to say, he's quite happy.
Re:prioritize-future proofing (Score:5, Insightful)
- Backup solar power? Mains power is cheap. Keep the money in the bank, spend it on mains if you have to.
- Food stores? Really bad idea if all you're worried about is being laid off. If you've kept the money as savings, you can buy the food when you need it. If you buy food now, it's a wasting asset (i.e. its value declines because some of it goes off).
- Pay off the house? No, keep a substantial chunk of the money on deposit where you can get at it for emergencies, and only after that pay off more than you have to on the house. You may get a lower interest on deposit than you're paying on the mortgage, but if you're looking for work, you are likely to need cash.
This sort of advice is only useful if you think that the whole of civilisation is going to collapse. As a preparation for personal financial problems, it's foolish.Parent