Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

F(OS)S for Learning a Musical Instrument ?

Posted by Cliff on Fri Sep 01, 2006 03:05 AM
from the a-software-conductor dept.
Anonymous Musician asks: "Recently I took up learning to play the violin (at age 37) and it is great fun. I found two little software tools to be of good help: Wired Metronome (Windows binary, free to download) to keep a steady beat, and TS-AudioToMIDI (Windows binary, shareware, 30 days free trial), using a microphone and built-in sound-card to detect in real time the note I am playing (I admit, sometimes it is more like a noise) and have it displayed on a piano keyboard to check and train my tuning. What tools, freeware or FOSS, are you using to assist you with learning to play an instrument?"
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • guitune (Score:4, Informative)

    by Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) * <whineymacfanboy@gmail.com> on Friday September 01 2006, @03:13AM (#16022519) Homepage Journal
    The guitune [geocities.com] project seems to do everything your second program does. Linux only at the mo' (but in gtk or qt flavours)

    There's loads of metronome free software around [freshmeat.net] too.
  • Hydrogen (Score:4, Interesting)

    by egjertse (197141) <slashdot&futt,org> on Friday September 01 2006, @03:28AM (#16022562) Homepage
    I'm learning to play bass guitar at the moment, and I've found Hydrogen [hydrogen-music.org] (Free, Open Source) to be of great help. It's a drum machine, which lets me quickly setup simple or more advanced drum-loops, even layout the drum patterns for an entire song. Granted, this is probably not quite as important for a violin player - although it can be used as a simple metronome as well.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Using drum patterns from Hydrogen is indeed useful and I use them along with dubbed recordings using Ardour [ardour.org] which allows the usual multi-track recording, editing, etc. A requirement is the brilliant jackd [jackaudio.org] audio connection kit which allows a crazy level of audio processing and manipulation. All in all, I have no need for anything other than linux when recording/dubbing music.
  • by billstewart (78916) on Friday September 01 2006, @03:31AM (#16022567) Journal
    I've never played instruments like violins, trombones, or fretless basses that require you to find your own pitch (other than voice) - it's hard enough on guitars, dulcimers, ukes, and baritone horns that play the notes you tell them to :-)

    For stringed instruments, I've found it really really helpful to have a hardware tuner, and most of them run about $20-30, and they're pocket-sized and last forever on a battery and fit in the accessories pockets of instrument cases or music folders. You _can_ also use them to find your note on a continuous-pitch instrument. The Korg model that I use has a meter (well, an LCD simulation of one) that shows how far above or below the nearest note you are, as well as red and green LEDs that tell you if you're sharp or flat. There are other shapes of tuners that clamp onto instruments, and some of them have backlights which can be helpful.

    I've used PC software versions in the past, mostly with names like "Guitar Tuner" or whatever, but dragging a laptop around was more trouble than spending the $20 for the tuner - your mileage may vary. On the other hand, with a dulcimer you tune it once and it stays in tune for a whole session until you want retune to change modes, and with a uke you tune it once and it stays only slightly out of tune for at least a little while, so either way you're not trying to get the feedback while you're actually playing, so you may need something different.

    • yes, but such hardware tuners suck. a software strobe tuner is much cheaper than a strobe hardware tuner though.
  • Firefox (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Schraegstrichpunkt (931443) on Friday September 01 2006, @03:32AM (#16022575) Homepage

    Who uses their computer to learn a musical instrument?

    Get Firefox, and use it to order scores and a real metronome---and to find yourself a real music instructor---online.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      Well, OLGA is/was great for learning guitar, it's many tutorials and tabs help quite a bit.
      Of course there is also educational software for instruments as well, though I've never used any.
      Audio editors are GREAT for learning to play, cut the tempo in half and retain the pitch to get those fast licks nailed and refine your technique. Record your playing and listen to what you thought were tiny mistakes become glaring errors.
    • Maybe more people would learn with their computers if there was more software available.
  • Tuxguitar (Score:4, Informative)

    by advocate_one (662832) on Friday September 01 2006, @03:40AM (#16022595)
    Tuxguitar...

    ignore the name...

    it's a crossplatform java program that funtions almost as Guitar Pro. It can read and write several available formats so there's plenty of stuff out there to load up and examine/play back. I use it to examine the Bass score for pieces. It does Tab input and conventional music notation (conveniently on the same window) and there a fretboard display as well which shows you where to stick your finger (unfortunately it don't show you which one is best though)

      • take it to their forums... I think you'll find the answer to your problem is already in there.
      • Mmmm... so much for the Open Source is better than...

        Exactly right! The failure of one Open Source program has ended the debate regarding the superiority of proprietary vs open source software.

        May's well close slashdot down now - you've settled the argument.
        • Exactly. It's just like all the people who have a bad girlfriend or boyfriend and then give up on sex and relationships. Clearly the single example determines the whole.

          --
          Evan

          • oh, I don't know. Generally, if there is a bad break-up enough to cause somebody to say enough, then it is generally, a good thing for the gene-pool. I have noticed that both parties contribute to bad break-ups.
  • by Cryptnotic (154382) * on Friday September 01 2006, @03:46AM (#16022609) Homepage
    Can't you just buy a six string and play it 'til your fingers bleed?

  • by fatrat (324232) on Friday September 01 2006, @04:21AM (#16022722) Homepage
    As a violinist, I'd not use either of these programs. The metronome one is handy, but why fire up a PC when a cheap bit of hardware is just as good and a lot more portable?

    Tuning software/gadets I'm against. I've known lots of people that learnt with them and I think they harm not help. You need to get used to *really* listening to what you are doing. Looking at notes on a screen actively hinders this IMO.
    • I have to second this. It seems that every few months there's another Ask Slashdot asking "How can my computer teach me to play an instrument." And every time the actual musicians in the crowd chime in with "It can't!" Like fatrat said, get a portable metronome for time-keeping. As for the tuner, get some tuning forks or a pitch pipe or maybe an electronic tuner that spits out various tones. And then use your EAR to match those notes (not your eyes). That's the only way you will really learn how to play in
    • by kfg (145172) * on Friday September 01 2006, @06:05AM (#16022962)
      Tuning software/gadets I'm against. I've known lots of people that learnt with them and I think they harm not help.

      Tuners are going to be the death of string playing, particularly with regards to traditional and baroque music.

      I've started to see electric fiddles with frets on them. People, there's a bloody damned good reason that violins don't have frets on them in the first place; and it isn't just to annoy you.

      It's so you can play the right pitch, whatever that pitch is; and it often isn't the one that the tuner tells you it is.

      Learn to hear intervals, not notes; and learn to tune by fifths. Then go out and get yourself a shitload of the oldest recordings of solo Irish and Old Time fiddle music you can find and learn to hear the microtones.

      This may rankle at first, but that's only because your ear has already been corrupted by the tuner/equal tempered piano. There's a whole lot more, even in western music, than the over rigidly defined 12 notes of the equal tempered chromatic scale.

      Like consonant intervals that are actually consonant and not merely almost consonant. When I've been playing solo violin for a few hours and then move to piano the piano actally hurts my musical ear. It takes some time to be able to not hear it as slightly out of tune.

      This doesn't, of course, mean that you shouldn't learn to play along with a piano and match its musical tones, but you should be aware of the fact that when you do so you are making a compromise with the music.

      And the best way to learn to play along with a piano is to play along with a piano, not using a tuner. In fact you should learn to play along with several different pianos, as in practice they'll actually all be in slightly different states of tune and you should be able to hear that and adjust for it.

      Music is sound and thus about hearing.

      KFG
      • Tuners are going to be the death of string playing, particularly with regards to traditional and baroque music.

        I've started to see electric fiddles with frets on them.


        I'd be as shocked and outraged over that as you seem to be, except I can see that an "electric fiddle" is not the same instrument as "a violin". You're not going to see Jean-Luc Ponty playing Vivaldi with the London Philharmonic.

        Learn to hear intervals, not notes; and learn to tune by fifths. Then go out and get yourself a shitload of the old
      • can you point us to some particular recordings?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Learn to hear intervals, not notes; and learn to tune by fifths.

        You're asking too much from most people, who may or may not be moderately musically inclined, but frankly, just plain can't hear that shit. (hell, at my age, I'm lucky I hear anything higher than 10,000 Hz anymore).

        Ironic that you cite "folk music". What you call "folk music" plainly has it's origins and style in actual folk music, taken over by virtuosos.

        Nothing wrong with virtuosos, mind you.

        But not everyone can be one.
        Most people don't eve
        • So maybe you don't like the 12 tone scale, but if you play more than one scale in one song you are in BIG trouble if you don't use the system that J.S. Bach introduced.....how do you deal with that?

          That's only an issue for instruments with fixed intonations: pianos, harps, fretted guitars. Other instrumentalists--wind players, brass, fretless strings--are easily able to change intonation by adjusting embrouchure or finger position.
          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            That's only an issue for instruments with fixed intonations
            No it's not. (?)...I remember that if you keep playing perfect fifths you end up half a note sharp when you get back to your starting note.
            The trick is to spread that difference out without it becoming too annoying (granted: this way you are always playing slightly out of key).
            Does it matter if you do this by ear on your fretless or leave it to mr. piano tuner? (BTW, on a bass it ain't all that critical, but on the high notes you'll notice imme
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              That's only an issue for instruments with fixed intonations

              No it's not. (?)

              Yes it is. Two good trumpeters (or violinists, or flutists, or singers, etc.) can play a major third in perfect tune if they listen to each other and adjust their intonation. But a pianist *cannot* play play a major third in perfect tune on an equal-tempered piano, period.

              I remember that if you keep playing perfect fifths you end up half a note sharp when you get back to your starting note.

              This is true, but it's a non-issue

                • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                  But my line of thinking is that we may be so used to the equal tempered tuning that we will intonate the same way on our 'fretless' anyway.

                  It doesn't quite work like that. Musicians adjust intonation to slow down and/or eliminate the audible "beats" that occur when an interval is out of tune. All equal-tempered intervals, apart from the octave, create audible beats. We tend to resist playing them.

        • it takes a sh*tload of carefull adjusting to get it right, and on some of the cheaper makes you just never get it right. Normally you don't notice it unless you go way up to the 12th fret though....

          pages 248 to 251 of Bass Guitar For Dummies... it's an easy job once you see how and can play harmonics. Set the action up correctly first, then go for the intonation.

      • by JabberWokky (19442) <slashdot.com@timewarp.org> on Friday September 01 2006, @06:05AM (#16022963) Homepage Journal
        Anybody over about 30 and many people over 20 who are learning their first instrument have to learn some pretty darn fundamental things. They aren't going to be able to get a groove or jam when they can't even keep a basic 4/4 beat. I've known plenty of people who couldn't separate out a Beatles bassline or find and keep the beat on a folk song. People who learned when they were kids or in their 20s have no problem whatsoever and can't understand that others just can't hear the fundamental basics of music. I grew up with a guitar playing father and learned the circle of fifths with my ABCs, but I recognize that many people who didn't have an interest in music early in their lives simply can't pick out individual instruments or the basic beat from even simple songs, or even tell a single note from harmony or a chord from a note.

        We're not talking about a teenager learning guitar... this is a older person learning to play, quite possibly for the first time in their lives. If so, they've been ignoring the basic things about music since Lyndon B. Johnson was president and Woodstock was just a bird in a comic strip. There's no problem with that, but things that "cradle you" are often needed just to relearn and slowly internalize what a teenager or child can pick up very quickly right from music.

        --
        Evan

        • That's not the point. He wasn't saying these books taught the basics, and that using them was a waste of time. He was saying the books skipped the basics, and cradled the reader through the hardest part of picking up an instrument. Learning the basics of an instrument, and music, is crucial and incredibly hard. These books generally skip a lot of basic steps in favor of getting the student to make some sound, but in doing so robs the student of a deeper understanding of his/her instrument.

          If a violinist
          • have you actually read Guitar for Dummies or Bass Guitar for Dummies??? they're solid on theory and practical... they intend you to play it right and to know why you're doing it that way as well. They're a heck of a lot better than the other "non-dummies" beginners books out there.
            • Some of the dummy books may be good, some may be bad, but you said it yourself, there are a lot of bad beginner books out there.

              It could also be that the guitar is an instrument suited to be taught by book. Violin, on the other hand, is NOT.
  • some exemples (Score:3, Informative)

    by tonigonenstein (912347) on Friday September 01 2006, @05:57AM (#16022948)
    DansTuner [sourceforge.net] - Tells you if you are playing a pitch in tune
    GNU Solfege [solfege.org] - Eartraining program for GNOME
    Gtick [antcom.de] - Digital metronome
  • MusicTheory.net (Score:5, Informative)

    by Lord Satri (609291) <alexandre@@@leroux...net> on Friday September 01 2006, @06:25AM (#16023023) Homepage Journal
    Nice, the comments provide tools I didn't know before :-) Here's another one:
    http://www.musictheory.net/ [musictheory.net]
    It's a free bunch of good flash-based music trainers (downloadable for offline use).
  • Well, next to none. As a professional violinist, and long-time teacher as well, I've been devestatingly disappointed with nearly every FOSS app for music. Audacity is good for recording yourself, so you can gauge your progress over months, and hydrogen is great for a metronome/drum machine. Other than that I've found NOTHING.

    Sibelius is simply devestating all the other notation programs in particular, and even Finale and some of the others are eons and light years ahead of any of the FOSS alternatives.

    He
    • As far as notation software goes, there's Lilypond. It's a pain to learn and takes a while to set a piece of music (it took me about 40-50 hours to do Chopin's 4th Ballade), but the results look really nice.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        Yeah, seriously eh? Take note, people, you do not know just how much free software exists if you've only seen the stuff that runs on Windows. This from someone who only switched about a year ago.

        Don't assume that just because you can't find a good FOSS app running on Windows that the type of app you're looking for doesn't exist, there's a lot of free stuff that only runs on *nix.

  • Technical skills... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Analog Penguin (550933) on Friday September 01 2006, @09:20AM (#16023788)
    There have been some decent suggestions for metronome and tuning programs, but really, nothing can beat just dropping $30 or so on a combination tuner/metronome. Most have plugs for earpieces, so you can easily overcome the "drowning it out" problem, and should be available at your local music store.

    Also, as a clarinetist, I can tell you that it's easy to develop bad habits early on, which will be difficult to overcome later. With any musical instrument, bad habits can lead from poor technique at best to debilitating injury, but violin (and viola) are particularly prone to this. While I've never played a string instrument for any length of time, many of my friends who are string players have told me that the first two or three lessons for beginners can be devoted to just _learning to hold the instrument_. Sometimes, the bow doesn't even come into play for weeks after that.

    For this reason, I would say that the most important thing you can do as a beginning violinist is to find yourself a teacher who can show you the basic technical aspects of playing. Even if money is tight, it's worth taking just a few lessons to save yourself a lot of mental (and likely physical) anguish down the road. And of course, if money isn't really an issue, then you'll benefit from continuing lessons. There's no substitute for having a master standing over you and helping with individual issues. Many teachers love to take on adult students, so it shouldn't be hard to find someone in your area willing to teach you.

    That all being said, welcome to the music world! The violin is one of the most challenging instruments to learn, but it's also one of the most versatile and widely used throughout the world. The rewards you'll reap from the experience will be well worth the investment of time and energy.
  • I'm all for technology (I mean, I hang out here, so) but no software in the world is a substitute for a living, breathing music teacher. Software can't teach you how to make music expressive; otherwise you're just stringing note together.

    Go to your local music store or the music department of a local college; both of which are excellent places to get in touch with someone who'll be eager to teach you how music works.
    • I need something that I can load onto an mp3 player, because simply using a mechanical metronome doesn't work because I drown it out.

      Any suggestions?


      Download a metronome program, set it to the beat you want & redirect the sound output to a file, convert that file to mp3 & bob's your uncle!

      You could batch up a whole bunch of different BPMs too.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      A lot of drummers use an earpiece with a simple click track to keep time... Complaints that it destroys a drummer's "groove" are fairly common, but on the other hand it does help pull you into a rigid tempo - use it as an aid, not a crutch.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I use a Boss DB-12 electronic metronome, it's got tons of features and is still really easy to use. It has a line out that I plug my Vic Firth drummer isolation phones into and that works much better than any mp3 type of system you could cook up, since you can change tempo, time signature, and accents. It works great with the isolation phones; both the drums and the metronome are clearly audible. You could also easily do the same thing with the Wired Metronome that is mentioned in the post.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You're not the (only) time keeper, just the most audible producer of timing queues. The latter is what makes your time keeping skill less of an issue than your ability to read other players timing since you stick out like a sore thumb if you flam with them. If you play in a group you feed off each other to keep the time, constantly adjusting to each other. If you are the only one sticking rigidly to the beat when the others drifted a bit, you will (quite rightly) get flack for it.

      That said, for time keeping
    • You can get electronic and portable programmable metronomes now with headphone sockets. Though watch out - a number of drummers actually get their deafness from using click tracks rather than the actual drumming!
    • Why not use your MP3 player? Most production music nowadays is recorded to a click-track. Simply get a nice pair of quality headphones (not entirely required but helps) and load some of your favorite music into it. Play along.

      You will accomplish 2 things:

      1) Your timing will improve.
      2) You will pick up technique from what you hear by tring to recreate it.

    • Nah, you're not the time keeper. Or at least you shouldn't be. Everyone has the responsibility to play in time. You're more like the time enhancer, since its you're job to accent beats for the audience in a way that other intstruments can't. Of course, in practice its often up to the drummer and bassist to keep the guitars near tempo.

      If you need to put together click tracks, try Hydrogen, a free software drum sequencer. Its overkill, but it should work fine. (Don't get too loud though, and wear hearing prot
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Kguitar midi output isn't broken, it assumes you're running timidity as a daemon. Dguitar can use either timidity or the java sound engine, when it uses timidity, it calls timidity explicitly.

      Once I discovered Tuxguitar, I dropped kguitar and dguitar...