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Dealing with Posture Problems?
Posted by
Cliff
on Sat Sep 16, 2006 05:30 PM
from the back-pains-are-nothing-to-joke-about dept.
from the back-pains-are-nothing-to-joke-about dept.
WebfishUK asks: "Musculo-skeletal problems (such as back pain) affect most computer users sooner or later. Like others I spend many hours sat in front of a computer and wonder what the long-term health implications will be. I recently came across a website for an application called Posture Minder which apparently runs in the background and uses your web-cam to monitor how you are sitting and warn you about bad posture habits. It sounds like a neat idea (prevention being the best cure and all that), although the website doesn't have a download. Do Slashdot readers have other devices or any habits that they have adopted to mitigate the health risks of spending a lot of time in front of a computer?"
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Science: Best Sitting Posture Is Not Straight Up 291 comments
An anonymous reader writes, "Researchers at Woodend Hospital in Aberdeen, Scotland used a new form of magnetic resonance imaging to collect images from 22 healthy volunteers, who assumed three different sitting positions: slouching posture in which the body is hunched forward, an upright 90-degree sitting position, and a relaxed position where the subject reclined backward 135 degrees. They concluded that the reclined position is the best, and the forward slouch the worst." From the article: "'We were not created to sit down for long hours, but somehow modern life requires the vast majority of the global population to work in a seated position,' Dr. Bashir said. 'This made our search for the optimal sitting position all the more important.'"
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Much simpler... (Score:5, Informative)
I dumped my 18-year-old chair (one of the wheels is broken anyway) in favour of a pilates ball.
It's way more fun and forces you to keep your back straight.
And you can bounce on it while waiting for something slow to complete.
Good for sex, too; my gf says it feels like floating.
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This is a myth. It is perfectly possible to sit on one of these balls with terrible posture. We have plenty of them at work, and I don't sit any straighter on them than I do on a regular chair.
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Oh, I'm sure a really good chair is much better.
But I can't afford a really good chair, but I can afford a pilates ball.
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Kinky. But if you spend all your time posting on
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I wasn't going to interfere, but... what's a fleshlight?
Somehow, I start thinking about the fluorescent pigs or whatever it was that made it to /. a few months ago...
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Seriously, if you didn't figure it out already, you don't want to google it.
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One more reason to bemoan the good old days ... (Score:2)
That's one thing I hate about changing jobs ... it takes a while to "break in" the new employer to the idea that bringing a dog to the office isn't some sort of "radical" thing, but tht it will improve health and productivity.
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Isn't there some sort of law where you are? I know that where I am, there is, but I feel uncomfortable pushing things the first few months.
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It's not like these dogs are running around and depositing fur everywhere, they really do pretty much just sit there while the harness is on.
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Yes.
> [data]
But the problem is that I don't like dogs.
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Its not about what you like and don't like ... its about people's ability and right to earn a living. I work a lot better with at least one dog present. It doesn't have to do anything except sleep at my feet or behind my chair.
I don't particularly like pineapple on pizza, but that doesn't mean I'll impose my preferences on others.
Back more on-topic ... there are too many of us who fixate on the screen, staring rigidly in one direction. Its not just your over
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2. Employee B doesn't like dogs, is distracted and annoyed. (productivity -Y)
3. ???
4. Profit?
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Its not just an "improvement in morale." So someone doesn't like dogs. What's he going to do - kick a handicapped person's service dog?
I don't think so.
The biggest culprit nowadays is keyboard trays and chairs that are too low.
People get a keyboard tray to keep the keyboard at a "more natural" height. So now, they're sitting too far from their screen. So, what do they do? Instead of moving the screen closer, they hunch forward.
The easier solution is to put the keyboad on the desk, and raise the cha
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And I work a lot better with at most zero dogs present.
> It doesn't have to do anything except sleep at my feet or behind my chair.
If that's all it does, I got have no problems. But if any of my many experiences with dogs at work are any indicator, that never actually happens. You've got dogs roaming around from cube to cube, poking wet noses where they shouldn't be, eating things they shouldn't, and barking at the other dogs.
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Naps at work: excellent idea - and already implemented at some places in order to improve productivity by as much as 40%.
http://www.time.com/time/insidebiz/printout/0,881 6 ,1209960,00.html [time.com]
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Ah, yes... but a true evil overlord strokes a cat sitting in his lap during the meetings with his minions.
sit forward (Score:3, Interesting)
If I have been feeling back pain, I simply shift to sit on the front half of my chair. It forces me to sit more upright and lesss slouchy. It forces me to stop kicking my feet out at random angles and support some of my weight. It forces me to type with better arm positioning.
(I type this while sitting nearly on my back, knees up, with kid in my lap... so take my advice with a grain of salt.)/p)
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excercise helps (Score:5, Informative)
i find that almost any kind of upper body excercise helps a lot. I live next to a river, so i kayak regularly -- it really helps keep the musculo-skeletal parts all tweaked up. Juggling is good. I imagine climbing, basketball etc help too. Bicycling is almost useless (i ride a lot, it's just not good for upper back problems). Unicycling is way good.
There's only so much posture / workstation ergonomics can do for you. Excercise is the real key.
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Just do your workout (Score:2)
Anyway, do your:
Deadlifts [exrx.net]
Squats [exrx.net]
Rows [exrx.net]
And add for example cleans [exrx.net], benchpress [exrx.net], legcurls [exrx.net] and military press [exrx.net] if you want to add more exercises. (Stomach exercises such as crunches or front squats probably helps aswell.)
Sitting in a quite ergonomic posture probably helps to but if you do those exercises I doubt it matters that much how you sit...
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I couldn't agree more. Deadlifts and cleans also worked wonders for my carpal tunnel syndrome. Start light. It shouldn't hurt to lift.
You could try one of the PostCherPerfect chairs (Score:2)
good question ; ) (Score:3, Informative)
In all seriousness though, this "Posture Minder" thing is nonsense. I'd be willing to bet it's nothing more then an overpriced motion sensor with a few health tips. My advice? Invest in a post-it note or two (or schedule a periodic alarm) and remember to get up and stretch every once in a while.
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Figuring out the posture of the person in front of the camera is an interesting computer vision problem, though. I wonder how they do it (if it actually isn't an "overpriced motion sensor" as you suggested)?
As someone with osteoarthritis (Score:2)
Also when sitting at a computer it is more important to get up every once in awhile for me than to conciously try to sit "correctly". When I sit for 3-4 hours without getting up no matter how I sit I am miserable the rest of the day.
Wouldn't put too much stock into this stuff... (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want to prevent damage, take a rest break every 15 minutes or so to stretch out your arms, wrists, and back, don't type on a laptop keyboard, don't rest your hands on your keyboard, and above all, relax and vary your how you sit now and again. Stick a leg up on that desk. Pull the 'Thinker' pose. Lean back absurdly. Sit on your armrest. Perfect that slouch. Exercise may help, from what I've heard.
Not only will you surprise your coworkers, you'll find that you really don't like sitting in the same damned 'good posture' pose all the time. Sometimes, it's just bloody uncomfortable.
Disclaimer: have had RSI symptoms before. Got me a buckler-spring keyboard and an interesting chair to sit in and never looked back.
Spinal tap. (Score:2, Insightful)
Wear a lightweight lift-belt. It's basically heavy-duty elastic with adjustable velcro on the front, and a reinforced section around the spine.* Helps with weight-issues too. Also get a proper chair with arm-rests and support that goes up to your upper-back. As well as a foot-rest that'll raise your feet enough to keep the circulation going in your legs
Try this (Score:3, Informative)
http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft &words=workrave [sourceforge.net]
This is a pretty good program that pops up a reminder at set intervals, telling you to get up and stretch. If I'm not mistaken it provides stretching 'tips' as well. Forewarned that you need to take time to change the default settings once its installed. They are atrocious and you'll end up cursing me out for ever suggesting it if you don't. It'll also minimize full-screen games and what not.
It's not posture-related but I came across another tip. Stick your finger out (I prefer index, but if your having a bad day make your choice) about a foot, focus on your finger for 20 seconds, then look in the area behind your finger for 20 seconds, repeat a couple times -- or until you start to hear people laughing. It's supposed to relieve eye strain. Works for me.
Tai Chi and a good bed (Score:3, Interesting)
Practice Tai Chi in a good school that treats it as a martial art, not gymnastics, such as the ITCCA [itcca.org]. (It's a good idea to research the lineage of the teacher before committing.)
Get a small glass (Score:2)
My fav are the short glasses with a thick heavy base. It has a good weight even when empty.
Dawg! (Score:5, Interesting)
The very best investment was in an eight-year-old beagle, a recycled and rescued hunting dog. He absolutely requires a long walk and some activity each day. Aside from that, he needs to be let out from time to time, and he has no shyness at all about letting me know--forcing me to get my butt out of the chair to let him out into the yard.
If you can't take your dog along to your workplace (and I never could), you can at least make time for a long walk and a few Frisbee or tennis ball tosses before or after work. You may find that the dog is actually better behaved and more obedient after a walk, and for you it will pay off in terms of relaxation, un-kinking of abused muscle groups, and possibly even better sleep.
I could do all of this without a Beagle, but somehow I could never be bothered. Having the dog turns it into an obligation.
For Stiff White Guys (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had bad/lazy posture for most of my life. I'm tall, so slouching is something I'm good at. In addition, I sustained a minor injury in my teen years that aggravated the state of affairs and as a result, most all of my adult life included intermittent back pain (pinched sciatic nerve) along with the usual visits to doctors, chiropracters, massage "therapists" and nights of sleeping on a bare floor. The doctors offered addictive drugs; the chiropracters offered instant relief, weird bone cracking noises, and a dent in my pocket book; the massage therapists mostly just made me feel sore.
A few years back, my sister decided I should attend a Yoga class with her. I thought, "What the hell - why not?" and agreed. She picked me up in her car late one afternoon from a cafe where I'd sat drinking espresso and smoking cigarettes for a few hours with some friends. New sweats and T-shirts were in a bag waiting for me.
We get to the "studio" and walk through the building past various workout rooms where people are using free weights, performing aerobics and you name it, and walk up a circular staircase to a glass-walled room on the top floor. As we turn the corner, I look into the room and see twenty or so people in an identical pose but notice an amazingly attractive woman in her early twenties, at least 8 months pregnant, standing, like everyone else in the room, motionless on one leg with the other leg held vertically straight above her. My second thought was, "I really don't think this is for me." I was expecting a small group of new-age types, but the group was a nice cross-section of what you'd expect in any city. Ordinary guys included.
To make a long story short, I spent the 60 minutes engaged in one of the best workouts of my life! I can say that because I used to use free weights, run, and box, but for the record, I dislike exercising -- free weights satisfy one's vanity, and while other activities can be fun, I'd rather sit at in front of a computer and smoke cigarettes.) At any rate, the Yoga workout, by comparison, was head to toe. I came out sweating, relaxed as a baby, and my posture was normal, probably for the first time in my life. And it was fun.
I took a few more classes, and eventually stopped. After each class, the "effects" lingered for some time so, given that I walked, sat, slept and did everything else better than I ever had, and my sciatic problems magically just disappeared, it was easy to slack off and go back to my usual habits knowing that I could bend down and put my hands flat on the floor whereas in the past, I was never able to touch my toes. With one exception. I could practise my Yoga adequately from home with no fuss.
Yoga, for those unfamilar with it, is, at its essence, just streching. And breathing. Breathing is the most important part. Stretching while holding your breath is an excercise in futility and laughable. Heaving breathing (or heavy exhaling, to be more exact) without stretching *is* relaxing, but won't do much for your body. Combine carefully learned and structured postures and movement with heavy breathing and you get Yoga. It's almost a no-brainer, but the practice dates back further than you want to know, so yes, there is definitely more to it.
My advice? Skip the expensive furniture. Ergonomic chairs are nice, but the best chairs are also best at making you comfortable while in a ridiculous, cramped, or otherwise unhealthy posture. And horribly expensive. Skip the therapists, too, unless you have a real medical condition. You'll get more satifaction by hiring a hooker. Learn some basic stretches (read Yoga postures) and BREATHE. You can practise Yoga in an hour-long class, at home, or by simply taking a few minutes out of a hectic afternoon and doing some basic stretches. I'll guarantee it.
Check out your local phonebook for a Yoga class near you. In my area there's one called Stiff White Guys Yoga. Says it all, doesn't it? If nothing else, you'll find lots of very relaxed babes, all willing to help out a novice, and you'll learn some things you can use for the rest of your life.
Kneeling Chairs (Score:2)
They take a little getting used to, as more of your weight is on your knees, but are probably more acceptable in an office environment.
Link to an example: here [sitincomfort.com].
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I often read kneeling on a normal chair, spread across the table, leaning on my elbows.
Both the kneeling chair and the Posturepod are bound to be very useful and comfortable.
speaking from experience... (Score:2)
Here are a few things you can do to prevent such back pain. First, take up walking. At least 1 mile a day. This helps because the muscles in your legs attach to your back and help stretch it out. Not sure of the mechanincs, I just know it helps me. Second, get up, off your butt at least 1 time each hour. This will a little. Funky chairs help some, but the real issue is sitting for long periods of time. Third, take up an exercise routine. Focu
Kieser Training (Score:2)
My method (Score:2)
Do Slashdot readers have other devices or any habits that they have adopted to mitigate the health risks of spending a lot of time in front of a computer?"
Once every hour I take the elevator down, go outside, and suck down a cigarette or two. None of this chronic back pain or deep vein thrombosis for me, no sir!
Sorry, but it's the gym. (Score:2)
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Get the monitor up to eye height (Score:2)
One of the simplest things to do is to raise your monitor up to eye height. Then get a chair with armrests, a decent keyboard, and arrange everything so that when your back is against the chair back, you can type comfortably with your arms supported.
The ultimate in Nagware? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Sit up straight!"..."Don't slouch!"..."Keep your elbows off the table!" Who needs that crap?
Then again, the kind of sick masochistic fitness freaks who buy into the "No pain, no gain." nonsense are notorious for spending big bucks on fancy home gyms, trendy weight loss products, and the health-food/weight-loss plan/diet of the week... I just think of Eule Gibbons, pitchman for Post Grape Nuts, who died of a heart attack after years of promoting his own wacky notion of a healthy diet.
I don't discount bad posture as being a root cause of many kinds of bone, joint, and muscle pain people experience as they grow older. On the other hand, I know for damn sure that I won't be writing great code if I'm being nagged by a program that doesn't like the way I sit/slouch at the keyboard. I might not be writing great code anyway, but at least I'll be comfortable while getting nothing useful done!
I came across this relevent
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the hope of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly procaiming