How To Configure Real PC Parental Controls?

Orange Crush writes "As the resident computer geek in an office full of accountants, my boss recently asked me how she could reasonably keep her teenage son from using the family computer to 'access inappropriate sites.' I of course responded 'Give up now. There's nothing in this world that can keep a determined teenager from acquiring porn.' Sadly, she was dissatisfied with this answer. I mentioned that there was in fact software available for this purpose, but that all of it was trivially easy to bypass for a clever young mind. I really can't think of another answer. She could password protect the BIOS to prevent booting a different OS, but that's easily defeated with a screwdriver at most. The only solutions I can think of involve upstream firewalls/proxies/etc to which I gleefully redirected her to her ISPs tech support number. As much as I disagree with her reasoning — and ignoring the obvious 'go to a friend's house' loophole — is there really any other way (on a home budget) to netnanny a household computer?"

Not really

[geekmansworld (950281)]

If the son has a decent knowledge of computing, there's really nothing that can be done.

My opinion is that she should just approach her son and talk to him frankly about any issues that she's concerned about.

Re:Not really

[CastrTroy (595695)]

Put the computer in a well travelled room, and remove access to the computer when you're not in the house. Lock the case, with a physical lock, and use a hard to guess boot password. Disable booting off removable media. That will probably fix most issues. That's if you want to even bother. What kind of sites are they afraid of the kid accessing, and how much will they really be harmed by accessing the site? I was a kid once, and visited a lot of sites my parents would probably rather I didn't. I don't think I'm that messed up because of it.

Re:Not really

[h4rm0ny (722443)]

It might not stop them seeing porn, but it will bloody well make sure that the kid learns how much his parents trust him and respect his choices.

Re:Not really

[Kelz (611260)]

And anyone who doesn't at least put on a show of trying to respect the choices of a teenager obviously forgot what exactly goes through their head when their parents say "because I said so".

Re:Not really

[multisync (218450)]

My opinion is that she should just approach her son and talk to him frankly about any issues that she's concerned about.

That's what I tell people when I get similar requests. Put the computer in the living room, explain the rules and hope your work as a parent has been effective. All she is doing by attempting to lock out "inappropriate" material is making said material more desirable and at the same time telling her son she really doesn't trust him. It's like asking him to provide a urine sample to prove he isn't using drugs or alcohol, or to take a lie detector test to prove he isn't cheating on his school work. What's she going to do when he starts driving to make sure he doesn't speed? Is she going to accompany him on dates to ensure he doesn't engage in unprotected sex? Is she going to follow him around stores making sure he doesn't shop lift?

She should tell her son that sex is a natural and healthy part of life for adults but viewing pornography on the family computer is not acceptable. And she should realize it is not the end of the world if his curiosity gets the better of him some times. There is plenty of intolerant, racist, sexist, negative imagery and speech on the Internet. I would be more worried about him being exposed to that, but that's just my opinion.

And to the person who modded you Redundant, try using your mod points to promote posts you think are Insightful or Interesting. Save the negative mods for those who are truly abusive.

Re:Not really

[toleraen (831634)]

Why not? That's how I learned to format a computer, and arguably why I started tinkering deeper into computers in the first place. Not really for the end result, but just to see if I could get around it. Parental controls + teenage angst = future geek!

Take away the video card?

[nategoose (1004564)]

Take away the video card so Jr can't see the hot action? Or sit there with the computer so Jr can be monitored at all times. Cancel internet access. Encrypt the hard drive so that Jr can't use the computer at all. Put a picture of Jesus over the monitor.

Re:Take away the video card?

[mrjb (547783)]

I was going to suggest a VT100. Then I remembered aalib.

Re:Take away the video card?

[eln (21727)]

This could lead to some very disturbing side effects. Think of the following scenario:

Your 13 year old son, massive amounts of hormones pumping through his body, is horny as hell. He goes to the computer for a quick bout of self abuse, and can't see anything! But he's 13, so he's still horny, and about ready to go off all over the place. All he needs is even the slightest stimulation. He looks around frantically for anything at all. Unfortunately, you've already taken the precaution of cutting all of the underwear ads out of the newspaper, and parental controls on the TV limit him to TV-G programming. What is he going to do now?!

Suddenly, he spies the picture of Jesus on top of the monitor. Not exactly what he was looking for, but hey...Jesus has long hair, and if you sort of squint he looks kind of feminine. So, your son says what the hell, and touches himself. He's 13 of course, so that's all it takes. Congratulations, you've just made your son jack off to Jesus. Now you won't even be able to take him to church without getting him going.

Simple

[flu1d (664635)]

Poke out his eyes, problem sovled

Braille porn!

[Treskin (555947)]

You, Fine Sir, must be unfamiliar with the wild world of braille porn. It's especially nice if you learn how to read it with the correct digit.

logging firewall and TALKING

[dj.delorie (3368)]

At my house, all outgoing traffic passes through an OpenWRT firewall, which redirects all web traffic to my caching proxy. It logs all accesses. I get reports. If I see something "unusual", I bring my kids in and have them explain it. I TALK TO THEM. It's useless to try to mechanically block their access, but if they know that EVERYTHING they do IS monitored (and they do), they seem to act responsibly.

Technology is not a substitute for good parenting, but it can be a useful tool for it.

Re:logging firewall and TALKING

[OS24Ever (245667)]

Sounds like the great log of china not a firewall. They can get there, he reviews it, and brings it to their attention.

So far my kids are 4 and 6. I just use Mac OS X parental controls and they can only visit the sites I book mark for them in Safari. They can't get to getfirefox.com to download it, so problem solved for that.

As my daughter (the oldest) gets older i'll loosen it up a bit for her as they each will have an account on the machine. I'll log IM chats and use it to gauge what's going on but I'm not going to search it obsessively.

I look at it this way, I'm a guy, I've used porn, I found it without access to the internet in the early 80s. All it takes is one older brother, one parent, one shoplifting experience and that magazine will be passed around the school until some moron either drops it while walking down the hallway in front of a teacher or is a freak and reports you too a teacher. My wife and I are not afraid of porn. As long as the US Government doesn't go insane in the next ten years it's going to be something both of my children will find out about it, right about the 11 - 13 range if history holds true. Admonishing them for that lovely hormonal surge that is going to happen whether I like it or not and their exploration of it isn't helpful and creates the puritanical environment we enjoy today here in the states. I still fight my upbringing of being ashamed of the human body and somehow just the site of it is 'evil'. Little thing called intent that needs to be adjusted more than just existing.

That being said, there are several tools available to baby sit your kids computer expierence, pick one and recommend it. I thought there was a windows package that would do similar features that Mac OS X does with the parental controls on IE 7 but i can't find it now that I'm looking for it again.

Re:logging firewall and TALKING

[Zenaku (821866)]

As long as the US Government doesn't go insane in the next ten years . . . .

No risk of that, I assure you. However, I think it likely to remain in that state for at least that long.

Re:logging firewall and TALKING

[Reality Master 101 (179095)]

In other words if I was being monitored by my parents I'd have simply found a way to make sure they can't see what I'm doing. At worst I'd have told them to f-off and challenged them to do something about it.

You sound like you were a spoiled brat whose parents needed to give a serious attitude adjustment. I would've taken away your computer for a couple of weeks if you spoke to me like that (or if you bypassed my measures), probably along with your cellphone, your ipod and all your music. And if you still had a bad attitude, I'd take your door off the hinges. If you STILL didn't get it, I'd come to school with you and follow you around, making sure your friends saw you, until you begged for mercy.

Re:logging firewall and TALKING

[h4rm0ny (722443)]

Actually, it sounds like he'll have a pretty good handle on the real world. He's clearly willing to put up with a lot of abuse rather than buckle under what someone else wants, solely because they have the power to punish him. Secondly, he also appears determined to get what he wants in that he thinks up ways around how others try to restrict him. If you ever seriously followed through on absurdities like following your child around at school or taking a door off, then there would be one of two results. Your child growing up into a timid, submissive adult, or more likely, pushing them to the point where they strike back at you. Seriously, there are plenty of things a child can do to hit back. Not least of which would be reporting you to the social services for (a) removing their door so that they were monitored at all times (b) following them round school, (c) denying their educational needs by preventing them from using a computer at home. Oh, and I think someone mentioned beating the child further up the thread. All that teaches is that when the child is bigger and stronger than you, there is no longer any basis for them to respect you any more. A close friend of mine was beaten a lot as a child. When he was nineteen, he went home and broke his father's jaw and possibly some ribs as well (I'm not sure).

The poster seems to me to have grasped early on a very important lesson. Freedom is a willingness to accept consequences. Took me until I was twenty-four to realise that.

Re:logging firewall and TALKING

[russ1337 (938915)]

"I had a bunch of friends who had ssh servers... "

Chances are you needed the pr0n 'cos i get the feeling you weren't hanging out with any chicks...

place in public area, remove ram.

[datapharmer (1099455)]

Put the computer in a public area. Remove the ram everytime you aren't going to be in that public area. Install all the limitations you can on the user account in whatever operating system you are using so settings can't be changed and run everything through a proxy server with a filter list that is also updated from a third party service with a block list. Seriously though - this is rather extreme. How about just having the parent talk to the kid about why they think porn is bad and put the computer in a public place.

Re:place in public area, remove ram.

[TheReaperD (937405)]

Putting the computer in a public place really helps a lot. Knowing that they could be walked in on is a great deterrent. It's not 100% but, it does really limit what they can do. It wouldn't help if the child is home alone, however. If the child is home alone often enough that it is an issue, you have a much bigger family problem on your hands then the computer.

I've worked at multiple ISP's and it amazes me how surprised parent's are by this answer. They had never considered moving the physical computer an option before I mentioned it.

I agree with the consensus of the other Slashdot posts that no amount of software is going to solve the problem. If the computer is in their room and they have unlimited time to work on it, any software can and will be circumvented.

How about actually supervise your child

[spribyl (175893)]

Move the computer to a public location.
That way you can watch them.

God forbid you actually raise your own child.

"It's 10:00 do you know where your children are?"

firewalls/proxies/etc

[krgallagher (743575)]

"The only solutions I can think of involve upstream firewalls/proxies/etc to which I gleefully redirected her to her ISPs tech support number."

That is about all I can think of that really works. The other thing I would do is to not actually block anything, but to maintain copious logs and review them regularly. I think it makes more sense to have an open frank discussion with your child than to simply block access. There will always be a loophole to blocked access, but there is no way around a parent who is genuinely interested in their child's welfare.

Training

[Jaguar777 (189036)]

How do you keep your children away from drugs, cursing, promiscuous activity, and other undesirable things?

You can't be with your children 24/7, and they will leave the house someday (no basement jokes needed). You need to train them to think for themselves, and how to recognize good and bad decisions before they learn the hard way.

A measure of character is how you act when nobody is watching. Do you want a child that knows he shouldn't be looking at midgets with horses porn, and keeps his own activity in check? Or do you want a child that you have to keep in check using technological measures?

I wonder if people once had the same discussion about chastity belts.....

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[bigtangringo (800328)]

When you said "Give up". If the kid is going to have access to the internet, he'll have access to pr0n, period.

Any sufficiently motivated teen will circumvent even the best system. You can try to fight human nature, but in the end you will lose.

I'd put my money on the kid ending up even more depraved as a result of such a tight parental grip.

MyEyes(tm) works wonders

[YrWrstNtmr (564987)]

PC in a common room of the house, screen facing out into the room. Knowing at any time a parent or sibling may walk past does wonders.

Next step is NoFun(tm). Kid gets caught doing someting mommy doesn't want him to, mommy takes away some priveledge.

You can't fix this with technology. Not on a home budget, anyway.

What's the problem being solved?

[Frater 219 (1455)]

As a computer technician I'm sure you've encountered cases before where a user asks you, "How do I do thus-and-so?" when really they're looking to accomplish some goal only tangentially related to what they're asking. Maybe this is best treated as the same sort of problem.

What is the user actually trying to accomplish? Is she worried that her son will become some kind of sex fiend? It's too late -- to paraphrase a line from Buffy, even linoleum makes teenage boys think about sex. Is she concerned that he'll get bad ideas about sex from Internet porn? Maybe some sex education is needed: "Son, just so you know, real women don't like bukkake gang-bangs. They like hugs. And clitoral stimulation too, but hugs first." Does she just have moral or ethical objections to porn in general? Maybe she should be talking about her values with her son a little more.

No matter what the problem is, it's almost certainly a social and educational one, not a technical one. Deploying a technical solution is probably not the answer.

Use humiliation.

[altinos.com (919185)]

Have the only computer in the house hooked up to a 50" plasma or LCD screen in front of a window facing the street.

Re:Use humiliation.

[khendron (225184)]

That might draw a crowd.

Parenting

[nuzak (959558)]

Seriously, this is a teenager, not a six year old. Her concern should be revolving around what her kid is actually motivated to view, because it ain't being pushed to him against his control.

But this is your boss, and not someone you want to give this lecture to. Just throw the names of some filters and/or logging spyware for corporate intranets at her, and let it go. Do not fight her battles.

The best there is!

[Lazypete (863757)]

The absolute solution to this, easy Put the computer in the living room or somewhere where he can't hide what the kids doing. There's no way the teen can get around that. Thats the most effective and costless solution.

Best idea I can think of.

[visualight (468005)]

Clone the desktop to the tv in the living room. There's plenty holes in that strategy I know, but maybe access can be physically disabled when he's alone at home? Like take the modem to work or something.

Anyway a friend did this with his daughter, drove her crazy cause she could only use the internet when he was able to flip the remote to video and see what she was looking at whenever he wanted. Once in a while he would get a black screen (screen saver) and he'd be straight to the stairs to see why.

She did once change clone to second desktop, that fooled him for about a week, but then she got grounded.

The best solution is not technical

[GroundBounce (20126)]

This may not be what she wants to hear, but the solution that has worked for us has been a slow process of education, not technical restrictions. Different kids have different issues that need to be addressed. Our son (now on his own at college) mainly had issues with too much non-productive web surfing and to some degree, too much gaming, but not porn. Basically, he wasn't getting his homework done. I could have blocked internet access to his machine, but we decided not to do that. Over time, with constant support from us, he began to realize that doing his homework and getting good grades in school was his ticket to bigger and better things. He eventually learned to balance his time better and had no problem getting into UC Berkeley.

Our daughter (in 8'th grade) is similar but different. Her issue is also spending too much time surfing sites like myspace and deviantart, and IM'ing with friends. Educating her has been a little harder, but instead of blocking her machine, we moved it out of her room where it is easier for us to keep an eye on how she's spending her time. Since doing that, she is gradually learning to balance her time better.

Ultimately, your kids are going to be out on there own, and it is better if they can learn to balance their time (with your help) before they're gone than just block everything and have them leave with no time management skills.

technology isn't the solution

[DragonTHC (208439)]

squid is only part of a solution. The real solution is sending your child to a psychologist to understand what motivates a teenage boy to want to look at naked women in the first place! If porn is wrong, then most of us, including you closeted christian freaks, are wrong.

I can't fathom not allowing my teenage son to view porn. It's the one great teenage pursuit. It's more productive than knocking up some 16 year old girl. That would be great parenting!

What I Did

[YetAnotherBob (988800)]

Any bright kid can find a way around the automatic nanny systems. There is only one solution that works. Here's what I did. Move the computer to the Family Room, with the screen facing the door. Our family room has one wall open to the Kitchen (the most used room in the house.) Now, when either his Mother or I were there, we could see what was on the screen.

I also took to checking the computer for where he had been. I only had to point out 2 times that his attempts to delete all traces of his 2AM trips to the porn sites had missed a few traces (deleted photos. Windows never really erases a deleted file.) He stopped using the family computer for that kind of thing completely. Of course, I still checked from time to time, till he moved out on his own.

A history list that is blank is the first warning sign. A simple search for temp HTML or JPEG's will often turn up the evidence. An undelete utility is handy too. A tool that reports locations where files have been zero'd will let you know quickly if there has been an effort to tamper. It's not too hard to keep a step ahead.

For those times when one of the children try to cover up the screen, I just killed the power to the machine. Worst case, I might have to re-install the software. Lots better than losing a kid to some online pedophile.I had to let the children know that there is no privacy when safety is involved. after a couple of kills, they stopped trying to keep us out.

Watch out for Myspace (and its clones) with young girls, they trust everybody and question nothing (except the parents). The boys are marginally better. Especially after 16 or 17. My favorite news story of the last year was where the 35 year old pedophile masquerading as a 15 year old boy onnline went to the mall to pick up the 13 year old girl he had arranged a 'date' with and found out that she was really a 45 year old cop who was working with the guys probation officer.

Sometimes there is justice.

You see, there is no substitute for parental presence. There never will be. If your boss wants to really protect her children, she needs to be there with them. Not out bossing you. Sorry, that is just reality. She can't have it both ways. None of us can. She will have to pick the one that is important, and let the other one go.

Dan Savage to the rescue

[Anonymous Meoward (665631)]

This very topic came up on Dan Savage's advice column, "Savage Love" (see the Onion's AV club site for more details). The best suggestion I saw was from a guy who was hiding porn mags under his mattress as a teenager. Mom found out, and simply replaced them with copies of Good Housekeeping. Best non-lecture ever imparted, no?

The same writer extended this approach to Web browsing. Basically, chances are Johnny hasn't been deleting his Web browser's history, so a proactive parent can check it, and then try visiting bogus sites that are similarly spelled. For example, if www.hotbabes.com appears in Johnny's history or cache, you visit www.hotbabe_JohnWeKnowYouAreVisitingThis.com .

The next time Johnny types in the URL with auto-complete turned on, he'll know his folks disapprove, and that his surfing is being monitored.

It would also help if Mom talks with Johnny later, but active parenting techniques are beyond the scope of this post.

Re:parenting?

[sTalking_Goat (670565)]

I really don't get that at all. What do these people think will happen if these kids run across some porn? I know this one guy I work with has two kids about 13 or 14 and he doesn't have internet access at home for just this very reason. He feels that the safest situation but completey ignores the fact that his kids have friends in the nieghbourhood and some if not all of them have internet access. It seems to me if you rasie your kids right they should be able to handle just about anything they comeacross without completey falling apart. It worked OK for me.

Re:parenting?

[kent_eh (543303)]

I really don't get that at all. What do these people think will happen if these kids run across some porn?

Indeed. Before the internet, we'd sneak a look at our dad's (or a friend's dad's/big brother's) stash of Playboys.
I'm pretty sure my childhood friends didn't suffer any psychological damage from it.

Re:parenting?

[ObjetDart (700355)]

Your dad's stash of Playboys didn't have people dressed up as Squirrels having sex with people dressed up as Nuns in orifices that should not be penetrated smeared with what looks like a mixture of feces and vomit.

Umm, link please.... ?

Re:parenting?

[sYkSh0n3 (722238)]

This is a real problem, and it is criminal there is no good solution, such as an xxx domain.

So you want a domain for all porn sites. Who decides what's porn? The internet covers the planet. Some countries don't have a problem with a womans breasts, while others say you can't look at a womans body at all. Can you define porn? Would you say images of genitalia? What about the statue of David? Where do you draw the line between porn and art? What would happen to someone who posted porn on a non-xxx domain? Who do you want to police the internet?

Why can't I buy internet service from some provider that blocks at least 99.9% if not 100% of porn? Why hasnt the 'free market' given me that choice? There is something wrong here. There is a market for this type of service yet it doesnt exist. Why not? Is it because Comcast relies on porn for their profits? It would seem to be so, judging by their cable line-up.

Comcast doesn't "rely on porn for their profits." They simply provide a service. Internet Access. Nothing is going to block 100% of porn, and that's why they don't offer it as an option. What do you think would happen the first time some holy roller walked in on their son rubbin' one out to some porn that managed to get through the filter? They'd get sued. So they don't try. They leave it up to parents to make sure the kids don't surf inappropriate material.

And the snide remark about their cable lineup? What the hell? They just pick what stations to broadcast in their packages, and that's mostly driven my consumer demand. The stations create the content, Comcast just makes those stations available to you. You want them to drop Fox because there are too many adult situations? Or are you referring to actual porn channels? because last time i checked those had to be requested, they weren't exactly part of basic cable. /rant

ug, you made me defend comcast. i feel dirty.

Re:parenting?

[nuintari (47926)]

All the knee-jerk comments about 'do your job, be a parent' miss the point, and serve only to gratify the poster's ego and holier-than-thou self-image.

So, it is not the parent's job to police their children's activities? So, if the kid comes over to my yard and vandelizes my car, is it my fault for putting my car in a place where someone else's child can destroy it? Way to pass blame, you are the modern parent, if your children are so perfect and angelic, why do you expect the rest of the world to police their activities when you have demonstrated that you will not do so? They are your kids, this is your rule, why do I have to enforce it?

This is a real problem, and it is criminal there is no good solution, such as an xxx domain.

Define porn, define porn in an international sense. From place to place, you will get a widely different answer. The xxx domain is purely pointless, will solve nothing, and is just another example of, "the world should police my children for me" attitude of the modern breeder. If created, _some_ porno sites will be on the xxx domain, some won't, and you people will whine and bitch, and moan that the precious, and always right, and never evil U.S. government didn't pass yet another wonderful law that limits personal freedom is some small way that was good enough for you. Guess what? Some of us don't want to be regulated by other peoples' rules.

Why can't I buy internet service from some provider that blocks at least 99.9% if not 100% of porn? Why hasnt the 'free market' given me that choice? The, and re is something wrong here. There is a market for this type of service yet it doesnt exist. Why not? Is it because Comcast relies on porn for their profits? It would seem to be so, judging by their cable line-up.

I run an ISP and no there isn't. For every 1 subscriber call I get wanting us to filter this or that, I have 300 who don't give a shit, and another 25 who are vehemently (not to mention vocally) aware of their rights and responsibilities as consumers, and do not want me, their service provider, playing big brother. I deliver internet service, I want to deliver internet service, my customers do not want filtered access, nor do I want to deliver filtered access. The market has spoken.

I actually ran across a reasonable solution some 3 years ago where a router mfr had bundled a proxy server in there router so all web page loads were checked at a remote server first before being served to the client browser. It worked pretty good. But this service went away, and is apparently no longer available.

If you found it effective, then your kids were probably laughing at you behind your back. No technological solution is going to cure what is a social issue. If your children want to look at porn, they will find a way. If you actively try to stop them, they will try harder. The social problem isn't the porn, rather our societies puritanical view of sex. These children are growing up, they are asserting their independence for the first time, and they need to explore their sexuality. Your solution is to say, "no, you aren't ready to have independence, and you aren't allowed to be a sexual creature. Someone else, make sure that stays true until I am ready to admit that my child has grown up!" Great solution bub, every chance they get to defy you, they will do so. No technology is going to save your children from the dangerous boobies.

Re:parenting?

[Otter Escaping North (945051)]

Seriously, what is she really worried about? Is she questioning her job as a parent and worried the big, bad internet is going to so corrupt her son that all of the important life lessons she has imparted will be pushed aside?

My pups aren't teenagers (which really means anything from 13 to 19 - and can warrant very different actions in terms of guidance), but as a parent who thinks of himself as responsible (and pretty liberal, frankly), let me tell you; yeah. It's pretty much me vs. the world, and I'm constantly paranoid about what other information is burrowing its way into their mind and taking root.

If you've raised kids, you'll know that they are sponges and there's no way to predict what's gonna take hold and what they're going to ignore.

There's a lot more to be cautious of on the internet than porn; and let's not forget that there IS porn on there that is about as far away from healthy sexual curiosity as you can get. There's also scams, fraud, malware, etc, etc, etc...and we can throw in the predator thing - although the media has blown that out of several proportions.

There are many aspects of a child's education that are the parent's responsibility; and do not fall into the normal school curriculum. Media education (including the internet), in my opinion, is HUGE. I'm expecting to spend enormous effort on it. How to perceive television and movies; fiction versus reality, how to look at advertising critically, and now that the news has become infotainment I've gotta try and figure out how to encourage a healthy interest in the world around them while at the same time explaining they can't take anything said by anyone at face value. Then there's the internet, which is a whole other category.

First, I've gotta spend a lot of time explaining how to use it safely - before we even get in to what to do and what not to. Safe browsing's gonna be a little more than just "don't sit so close." Malware, spam, phishing, trojans, cookies, privacy, internet permanence, and explaining there is no such thing as total anonymity -- and we're not even doing anything interesting yet.

So, frankly, if a parent isn't worried - I'm not sure they're doing they're job.

Yeah, obviously responsible people of good conscience will disagree about the appropriateness of a lot of internet material - but there is some stuff that I'm pretty sure we can almost all agree on, and I'd value reliable tools that help me prevent that from exposure. I'm not trying to keep the kid from seeing tits - but I am trying to keep them safe.

My planned approach? Start with pretty locked down access (I've got a router and the skills to more or less pull that off), open it up over time as they learn and mature, and I'm going to monitor what they do. You're freakin' right I am. That doesn't mean I'm going to pour over every mail, and I'm certainly not going to do it secretly. They're going to know I'm watching from the time they start using the internet; I'm going to tell them, and I'm going to tell them it's gonna happen at school and work, and throughout the rest of their accessing lives.

That approach is not to be taken lightly, obviously. I view it like watching the kids at the playground. Watching to keep them safe, occasionally telling them to 'stop that or you'll break your neck', is not the same as jumping in and managing the kids every time they tussle over a toy, or argue about who is 'it.' It can't be a mechanism for trying to make them behave the way I want them to. I'll have to be an adult about it; I can't read every mail, and I can't come down on them because they call me an ass as they IM to their friends. And yeah, there's screw all I can do if they're at someone else's home.

If the woman in question doesn't have the skills or time for that - she can use some software, ask the ISP to block stuff, let the mail provider filter the spam; and she has to accept that it's going to be an imperfect situation.

Re:parenting?

[strikethree (811449)]

"So, frankly, if a parent isn't worried - I'm not sure they're doing they're job."

You will probably not think that I am doing my job. I have two kids, 15 and 10 and I am not worried in the least about what they will find on the internet. Both of them have run across porn and both of them quickly ignored it. The younger one thought it was gross and the elder one did not wish to see it.

While I am checking their computer for spyware, malware and other baddies, I do look through their browser histories and such but they have no idea that I check such things. All of their online activities are 100% innocent even without the fear of me monitoring them.

I trust my kids 100% but I do know that children can make mistakes which is why I check sometimes. I have taught my children about all sorts of things and let them explain to me how it could affect them. I tell them they can do anything they want and they turn around and limit themselves even more than I would limit them if I were an authoritarian parent.

At their ages, I was always rebelling against my parents. I swore I would never be like my parents and it has paid off in spades. My kids get excellent grades, A- is the lowest for the 15 year old and a B is the lowest for my 10 year old. All of their teachers have always complimented me on how courteous and hard working both children are. Both children are well disciplined and never do anything (major/serious) that I would not want them to do. Most importantly though, both of them love and trust me. They know that they can talk to me about _anything_ even if it is embarrassing or against the rules.

A web filter is bad parenting in my book. The real world does not censor itself and showing your kids a censored world will only hurt them by limiting their view/knowledge. Murderers, child molesters, thieves, etc do not perform their crimes only on other bad people. They perform their crimes on innocent people too. Better yet, innocent people make great targets because an innocent person does not know what to look for or know how to defend themselves. When they run across bad stuff make sure that your kids can, and will want to, talk to you about it so you can provide the knowledge that they need to get along in this world.

Teach your children properly and you will have less to worry about. (kind of like the saying, "do not tell lies so you do not have to remember as much")

strike

Re:parenting?

[Otter Escaping North (945051)]

I'd mod you up if I had the points. That was very well-written.

Appreciated, though when I re-read it, I think I fell into the trap of overusing the word "safe." I stand by what I said about how I plan to handle the internet thing, and safety is certainly an issue - but I meant to talk more about managing the introduction of what's out there, and educating them on how to approach/avoid/process it.

It can be hard for a parent (well, me) to keep objective and separate what is an actual threat to their child from what, frankly, they're just not ready to handle yet...then of course there's what we parents are not ready for them to handle yet. ;>

Putting too much of that material under the category of "safety" is what leads to things like the "thinkofthechildren" meme. Images of hysterical parents condemning everything is certainly fair criticism, but for those of you without little ones, please believe me when I say that it's an incredibly hard job, with more nuance than can realistically be managed perfectly, and you often feel like you've got the whole multi-billion media industry against you.

I want to raise intelligent, critical, reasoned people with healthy egos, tempered consumer appetites, and the skills to thrive in the good times and cope in the bad times. Play about five minutes of television in opposition to that, and please forgive my momentary impulse to board up the windows.

Re:parenting?

[Brian Gordon (987471)]

I (speaking for a lot of the libertarian single geek males on slashdot I'm sure) will stick up for what I believe in.. namely that censorship is wrong. This includes censorship "for their own good" even when dealing with child development. ESPECIALLY when dealing with child development. Are you seriously going to raise your kids with the philosophy of total lack of privacy and "someone's always watching?" That's a totally dystopian idea, and it's horrifying to hear that you'll force your kids to accept it! Privacy is a right, and while a healthy amount of parental discretion is available in enforcing household rules by looking at logs and things, you shouldn't be telling them "from the day you're born to the day you die someone's watching, so get used to it." Rather teach your kids that privacy is the ideal, the right thing, and that evil men have taken it away, and take that perspective to telling your kids someone's watching. The reality is that you have no privacy, but that's not how it should be, and that's not how it needs to be. Nothing will change if parents like you bring up the next generation accepting no privacy, taking DRM for granted, and thinking it funny that their parents owned their own computers not controlled by trusted computing vendors. et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, I don't know what you're worrying about. The internet is just information, and I think you underestimate your childrens ability to accept it as such, and not instantly open the windows of their souls and suck in 4chan and suddenly become real life /b/tards. Evaluate whether you're being controlled by offspring protection instincts, and also re-read Ender's Game. They were only 9. And I'm sure no kid is going to turn into a twitchy pulp of catatonia at seeing rose de nose's desk screen.

No, there's a much simpler answer.

[by Anonymous Coward]

Make your kids watch you in a porno. They'll be put off porn for life...

Re:No, there's a much simpler answer.

[by Anonymous Coward]

Oh, c'mon, your mom's video wasn't that bad...

Re:covenant eyes

[BlowHole666 (1152399)]

No, sorry most porn is something like www.someurl.com/somefolder/some girl name/some set name/number.jpg All the porn I have ever seen never has xxx in it. I guess you could search for .jpg but it is still a lot of work. I think just talking to your child is the best thing to do. But who has time for that these days?

PLEASE MOD EINSTEIN DOWN

[UbuntuDupe (970646)]

I shudder at the lack of trust between this young man and his mother though. If it is justified, he will probably end up in jail once he turns 18 and can no longer be legally restrained.

So, let me get this straight: almost every young male who disobeys his mother's command not to look at dirty web sites, will "end up in jail once he turns 18"?

Re:PLEASE MOD EINSTEIN DOWN

[iamacat (583406)]

The ones that try to reenact porn in real life without any regard for the consequences generally do get in trouble.

Re:Assuming a slight level of trust

[Irish_Samurai (224931)]

A tool that my mom used for controlling video game time for my younger sister was controlling the power cord. Hand it out when it is game time, remove it when it is time to do homework.

I was a latchkey kid and my Mom tried that with me. Unfortunately the answering machine ran on the same voltage.

Re:Edwards' Law, Dogbert's Corollary

[Tackhead (54550)]

> "You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem".
>
>It's not exactly true. You can very well do so. To expect a determinable result is to court dissapointment, however.

Or as Scott Adams put it (01/23/1996):

(Dilbert is working on a "new technology to prevent kids from seeing smut on the Internet")
Dogbert:"So, you're pitting your intelligence against the collective sex drive of all the teenagers who own computers?"
Dilbert: "What is your point?"
Dogbert: "Did you know that if you put a little hat on a snowball it can last a long time in hell?"