Slashdot Log In
How Do You Advocate Linux in 5 Minutes?
Posted by
Cliff
on Fri Feb 02, 2007 06:11 PM
from the preaching-on-a-corner dept.
from the preaching-on-a-corner dept.
xtracto writes "I just returned from buying certain Linux magazine. While looking at the 'Computing' stand in the library, and right after I grabbed a copy of the Linux magazine, a guy asked me if I used Linux. After that, the man told me he had tried to use Linux, but he had found it difficult. I told him the first things that came to my mind: that it depended on the distribution (he tried Kubuntu). I recommended him to look for a Linux User Group near his hometown (he told me he didn't live near a city). What would you tell these kinds of people? Not so long ago, and to my surprise, a relative who is completely computer illiterate started talking about Linux, but the general thought is that 'it is harder than Windows'. How do you advocate Linux to people who are more comfortable using Windows?"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Quickest idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Just the other day, I had a friend ask me, "Why is my computer rebooting?" (Xp BSOD with only a 64K dump. Goes by pretty fast.) Once I explained it was "just normal Windows," they asked me, "How can I get Linux?"
I explained it like this: "You can just download and burn a CD. Pop in the CD, reboot, magical linux." I didn't take the time to explain the different distros. But LiveCD's are that good.
LiveCDs (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:LiveCDs (Score:5, Insightful)
The Linux logic is way too different from that of Windows and new users first have to forget their Microsoft ways. And they will only do so if they are *very* motivated or if you show them how to do stuff. Those users obviously aren't tech savvy or else they probably wouldn't have much trouble with Windows or would have switched to something else on their own.
So if you give a CD to someone, follow up on it, offer assistance, if the person finds it intriguing, point him/her to a LUG or invest some of your time.
Or you might as well be handing out coasters.
Parent
Re:Quickest idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows is not perfect however stating it is "normal" for a complete system crash is not true these days.
Now back to your post I agree with you, Live CDs are great. I have given around 50-60 to people in the past 2 years or so. Almost everyone thinks it is impressive you can run it without needing to install it (those you don't do not understand what an operating system is). Sadly I do not think any of them stuck with Linux. The reasons are common (hardware support, applications, complexity). I have never tried to force anyone to use Linux. Use what you like IMHO. I try and support Linux as much as I can but it is very difficult when everything in Windows 'Just Works(tm)'.
A lot of people see computers as a tool to do something, like a drill or a BBQ. A drill makes holes, a BBQ cooks food, a computer surfs the internet and does word processing. They don't have to build the drill from small parts to drill a hole, they don't have to rub two sticks together to get fire for the BBQ and so they don't want to have to work on their computer to get it to surf the internet.
Parent
Just a small warning (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I too learned this the hard way after I bought a Lexmark Optra S 1625 laser printer for my office some years back. I thought "cool -- it has linux driver". Little did I know. That bastard has sucked more time out of me than I'd care to remember with it's POS proprietary driver. In contrast, my HP Laserjet 4L worked instantly and flawlessly with the OS driver, as does my Brother HL-1440 which I use at home. I
Re:Quickest idea (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
You don't? (Score:3, Insightful)
Better reason (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux is like a religion for people who really ought to be putting their intelligence to better use than a religion. Stop wasting time thinking of ways to get your neighbours to accept Linux as their personal saviour from malware, and start teaching yourself C++ and get to work improving things.
Parent
Re:Better reason (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with that approach I think, is that by the time you become a competent C++ programmer, you no longer have the ability to see things the same way a "newbie" does. I want tonnes and tonnes of options in my applications. Newbies are afraid of those options, and don't know what half of them mean. I've come to a point where I really don't care if the masses convert or not. I prefer that they did, and I would recommend that they do, but I know from experience that preaching only leads to a LOT of phone calls from people with the stupidest questions (to me). I will never push Linux on anyone again.
Parent
Re:Better reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Being a competent programmer has almost no overlap with being a good user-interface designer. The problem is not "programmers can't think like newbies", it's "programmers think they can do UI because UI is just another part of the program." They can't.
Until the DE and app devs start realizing "oh shit, I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing with the interface, and I need to involve someone who does.", Linux won't ever crack the desktop market. XP and OSX are a decade ahead.
PS: Before you reply with "I'm a good programmer and a good UI designer", let me guess: you probably think you are a good driver too. These are just areas where people are notoriously inaccurate with self-assessment. Get a qualified second opinion.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a reasonable coder (enough to support the horrible abomination of a legacy app we use*). The UI is a CLI, no GUI at all. All in all there are about 100 commands with a half dozen permutations for most of them. When it came time for "improvements" I sat down with my primary users (all of 5 people locally, about 7 more spread around the world) and asked them what they most wanted. The answer? stability and repeatability. No feature enhancements, no GUI. It boils down to: We know the app the
Re:Better reason (Score:5, Funny)
Right, if you want to retain the newbie's perspective you need to learn PHP instead of C++. :)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You don't? (Score:5, Insightful)
And just like most Linux advocates, you just don't get it.
The iPod was not about its features, or its interface, or its design, or its marketing, it was ALL of those things understood and executed simultaneously by a company and a person who Just Got It.
It really makes me laugh when people say "This product has everything this one had and is $100 cheaper, why wasn't it more successful?" The fact is, it wasn't, that's the hard truth, and it's your job to figure out why. I'll give you a hint: it's not one thing, or two things, or even five things. You have to understand your product and your users on a much higher level than features and price.
So then think, gee, Linux is free and Windows and MacOS are hundreds of dollars, and they all offer exactly the same features... and take a hint. There's something wrong with Linux, and it's not just one thing. It's the whole philosophy that software is just its features and nothing more. Once you Get It, then you can talk about Marketing It.
Here's a start: Linux needs to tuck the command line under the carpet. Blasphemy! [Runs and hides]
But seriously, if you disagree with that, then Linux will never see widespread adoption, and your mentality is the reason.
Parent
Re:You don't? (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'd go further and say that the problem with Linux acutally is just one thing.
It's not the dominant operating system.
That one fact alone means a whole lot to the average person. They want something they can get help with from people they know, the want something they can replace easily, they want the dominant operating system. Just like most people want the dominant movie format, and will wait to get it.
90% market dominance isn't just a result of good marketing, it's the primary "feature" of windows. Nothing else will be able to offer that feature by definition.
What's going to have to happen is for Microsoft to either adopt Linux/open source (I tend to think this is actually likely in the long term future) or Linux is going to have to be so vastly superior to Windows for the average person so as to make the 90% market share "feature" irrelevant.
It's not going to happen through advocacy.
That said, my money's on virtualization. We'll probably all be running multiple OS's simultaneously before Windows loses 5% marketshare.
Parent
what the average person wants (Score:3, Informative)
That one fact alone means a whole lot to the average person. They want something they can get help with from people they know, the want something they can replace easily, they want the dominant operating system. Just like most people want the dominant movie format, and will wait to get it.
I don't think the average person wants the dominant OS, what they want to to get a computer with an OS already installed, most never install an OS. And because Windows is preinstalled in most PCs people buy a PC with W
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You scream the first word in one of them. :-)
Re:You don't? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:You don't? (Score:5, Funny)
You know, it's been ten years since I moved from my Amiga to Linux, but those two sentences still piss me off.
I'd like the Slashdot audience to know that the (traitor) parent poster is in no way representative for us ex-Amiga users. We still foam at the mouth.
Parent
Re:You don't? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's entirely situational. The key is no-pressure. It's their machine, and they shouldn't be forced into using something they're not comfortable with.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You don't? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is inertia. It doesn't matter much that Linux is ready for the desktop. What matters is that Windows has owned the desktop for over a decade. People are familiar with it, and no matter how irrational, when confronted with something
I don't know what about Kubuntu was too hard for the gentleman in the Asker's story, but I'd be willing to bet that the problem was that it was unfamiliar. He probably didn't immediately know how to do the tasks that he normally does. Maybe his e-mail client wasn't already set up and his ISP couldn't help him, or maybe he couldn't find Internet Explorer and didn't know that Firefox was the alternative. But the fact is that he wasn't willing to try, and it's likely that he wasn't willing to try because he had his comfortable Windows desktop waiting for him back in his comfort zone. I'm not trying to say that there's something wrong with this man, but this (admittedly speculative) case is representative of the problem.
No, Linux is ready for the desktop. It's about as ready as it's going to get. It is no harder to use than Windows. It's the inertia issue advocates need to overcome, now, and that will be a harder battle.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The expression "so easy a child could do it" is really misleading. Children are typically better capable of learning and figuring things out than most adults I know. Perhaps the expression should be, "So easy a retiree could do it." But that would probably be considered degrading.
Linux IS for everybody - with enough effort. (Score:4, Informative)
(I'm amazed by the number of hard-core Linux programmers I've met who have never even heard of Freshmeat. They've simply never heard of anyone offering a listing of what software was out there - and Freshmeat barely scratches the surface in a lot of areas. They use the tools they know of, imagining those to be the only ones to exist.)
Want a GUI but don't want X? Fine, no problem. Some aren't maintained all that well, but that's not the point. The point is not what could be better, the point is what exists in the first place. Code improvements will happen, if critical mass is reached on the userbase, but critical mass is impossible to achieve if nobody ever hears about these efforts. Don't blame Linux for "only" having one archaic GUI, when it actually has closer to twenty, if anyone made the effort to look. (Those are actual GUIs, not libraries or desktops for X. X isn't needed for, or used by, any of them.)
Want to run binaries for another Intel-based OS under Linux? I only know of five ways to do that at the moment. That's less developed. Not Linux' fault if the distros either don't provide them or don't make them simple to use. Not Linux' fault if users don't know about them, or only know about one or two. So neither the distros nor the users have any business blaming Linux for their own faults and failures.
Want hard real-time multimedia? Now we're down to about four broad solutions, with two options (microsecond precision or nanosecond precision), so that's eight ways to achieve this. Not bad. How many does the typical hardcore Linux gamer or musician install? None? Then my sympathies lie more with the LKML folk. They have achieved near-miracles and it must bother them some to be told that stuff that's been out there for two or three years "doesn't exist".
So am I doing anything different? Yes. I'm fighting the ignorance as best as I can, although my efforts are necessarily limited. It's hard work and I get a great deal of flammage for doing nothing more than letting people know that solutions do exist. My impact has probably been insignificant, compared to that of most Linux advocates, as I'm less concerned with paving over the gigantic holes of obliviousness than I am with filling in the ruts of obscurity. However, how is anyone to know that the ruts needn't be there, if nobody takes the time to show the alternative?
All that I ask is that when anybody - whoever that is, whenever that is - takes the time to show you why Linux doesn't have the limitations it is ascribed as having, please just take the time to have some faith that the system you use, and perhaps like, may actually be better than you once thought. Doesn't it feel better to know that what you perceive as a limitation of a given setup is neither your imagination nor unfixable, and that indeed a fix likely already exists. All you have to do is apply it. Then, the limitation ceases to exist.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Matter of perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
So With a new machine I might try and open up a pdf off the internet But then I get the message that Adobe isnt installed. But I know that Acorobat is a piece of Garbage, so I download Foxit to view PDF's.. But Microsoft has made it bloody impossible to view a pdf mwith an alternative viewer through IE, so I still download Acrobat anyway, and set foxit to be the readed for offline documents. Because acrobat takes 15 seconds to open a big pdf, and is responds like a slug.
Then I want to click on some quicktime peice of junk.. so it forces me to download the latest version of quicktime. Quicktime likes to have some quickloaded hanging out in memory that seems to chew clock cycles at random.. And while I would like to turn it off, VLC doesnt do a nice job of playing in-webpage-window movies.
Then there are those pages that dont show an address bar, the f-11 doesnt seem to work and so then you cant easily find some jacked popup without going through the bizarre path of ctrl-n, f-11 and then you can see and copy the address bar. Which is a total joke, because a popup should never have that level of control over a window.
The kicker is that I can get into a brand new car and have it work as well as I want it to work in 5 minutes. With a computer it takes it days to get it to a point where its comfortable.
Storm
Parent
Re:You don't? (Score:4, Interesting)
When windows doesn't work, you're still in Windows. When it really doesn't work, you just have to re-install Windows. That's actually less scary than a command line for 95% of computer users.
Parent
Oral sex (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oral sex (Score:5, Funny)
G.
Parent
Re:Oral sex (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Don't tell... listen (Score:5, Insightful)
When you know that, you know the selling points of Linux that you can spool out in 5 minutes. The biggest difficulty in evangelizing anything is when you talk at people instead of with them. If you ask questions, he'll provide you with all the talking points that will be most effective.
But it's worth mentioning... It all depends on the person's needs. Sometimes Windows will be the person's best option for a comfortable operating environment, because they have peripherals and software that Linux just doesn't have a good solution for supporting or replacing. If the guy's not ready for Linux or it's not ready for him, be honest. That way, when the situation changes, he's going to trust your advice and be ready to switch because of it.
- Greg
Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Then GIVE THEM an Ubuntu livedisc or install Debian/Fedora/Mandriva/whatever for them. No, don't tell them "go download it", that's not going to work.
Alternatively, you can send them to goodbye-microsoft.com by way of their "propaganda": http://goodbye-microsoft.com/propaganda.odt [goodbye-microsoft.com]
Re:Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Then tell them the rest of the story.... The 'free' software can cost you many hours of tracking down answers in obscure forums (and dealing with the scorn of the denizens thereof) in order to get basic functions (sound, video) to work. If there is a Windows program you absolutely must have - there may or may not be a Linux equivalent (back to Google and forum scorn to find it). You may or may not be able to import the data from Windows to Linux. You can spend hours (back to Google and forum scorn) trying to get a Windows program running under WINE - and still not have it work.
In the past nine odd years (I.E. since installing Windows 98), I've spent a grand total of about five hours sorting out configuration and driver problems. (Ten minutes when I installed Pirates!, five each for locating and installing the new drivers. Twenty minutes sorting out a USB problem with vendor tech support. The balance was trying to get help with an Open Source program which kept failing - and the best I got was 'when it breaks, reinstall it'.)
Properly installed and maintained (and the latter takes very little work if you practice safe hex) Windows installations Just Work. Free software? Well, it might work, it might not.
Parent
Face it (Score:5, Insightful)
So with that in mind Linux is an OS for professionals and hobbyists/hackers.
For professionals right now it is I think mandatory to know Linux in *some* way. Even just in way to see that Windows works better for you. But it is essential to know Linux in way that lets you make clear decision of what to use. But anyway nobody ever got fired for buying MS - or was he?
For hobbyists Linux is a Must Have - if you are into computing and you like it you must try Linux since it may make nice things for you in some way or another. It does not mean that you need to dump Windows and go Linux exclusively - but it means that Linux has great potential and it is worth to use.
Linux advocacy has nothing to do with ease of use compared to Windows or whatever. If Windows is easier to use for you than go on - use it.
interface interface interface (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:interface interface interface (Score:5, Interesting)
Only programmers are respected in the open source world. If you can point out a usability problem like "Gnome apps don't alphabetize files in the Open dialog right" but you can't write code to fix it, you're sunk.
Oh, and I didn't make that up. Gnome apps *don't* alphabetize files right. You'd think that in the year 2007 being able to alphabetize a list of files is a solved problem, but not in the Linux world.
Parent
Don't worry, grandma... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Don't worry, grandma... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure there are tons of Linux users now who don't even know what dependency hell was like (or DLL hell for that matter) because that problem doesn't exist anymore. Find something else to troll about.
Parent
Just tell them to try it! (Score:3, Informative)
Here's what I would tell such a person: get some help. Find a geeky friend or a co-worker who is willing to set it up for you in dual boot with your Windows system. The distribution choice, by the way, is largely irrelevant. If the system is fully set up (all the drivers are working and the Windows partition is visible) then Slackware is as easy to use as Kubuntu. I would still recommend a Debian-based system though, since its package management can handle a direct hit by a total noob.
Educating is mostly pointless, since these people are not asking to get educated. They just want to try it out, so let's just give them a fully working toy to play with. Educating comes naturally after some use. You will start getting questions like "why cannot my Windows see my Linux partition?" Well, gosh, because Windows is designed to be incompatible? Plenty, plenty of educational opportunities will be available later, for both technical and political topics. But for starters, just give the man a working OS!
Before you start thinking of any funny ideas... (Score:5, Funny)
It's REAL Simple... (Score:4, Funny)
Linux Genuine Advantage [linuxgenui...antage.org]
--
Windows: Why its file system still blows?.doc
Unix: README_JUST_AS_STUPID.DOC
Unix: readme_just_as_stupid.doc
Don't advocate (Score:3, Insightful)
It must feel right. It's not about specs or words.
Tell them the 'Three Finger Rule' (Score:3, Interesting)
Cheap, Laptop, Internet, Email, Wordprocessing, stadard productivity apps small 10-minute games? -> Linux (Ubuntu), have your local geek check for a printer that fits, join the mailinglist and get a n00b book on ubuntu. (Same applies here: Stay away from hardware building)
Desk, hassle free, Email, Internet, Wordprocessing, small games, neat games, design + nice OSS goodies? -> Mac OS X (Mac Mini / iMac)
Not that the above is the current state and can chance slightly every half year or so. (for instance if iBooks get cheaper than equivalent PC laptops again) or hushtech PCs become affordable.
The bottom line is unless the people have to really look out for costs right now a Mac is the best they can do. Only with super cheap laptops will they do better with Linux, as the iBook advantage has worn of lately.
Windows nowadays is only usefull for a newcomer if they're into gaming or special apps that require Windows. Example: a friend of mine is engineer and needs stuff that only runs on Windows. And in any of these cases you'll have to shed out some money to get a real advantage.
The legend that hardware is easyer to set up with Windows is exactly that: a legend. True to some extent two years ago, but not anymore. Of course the hardware in question should be able to run under Linux. But if so, it's not any more difficult to set it up with Ubuntu than it is with Windows. On the contrary.
Note that the above is the current state of things. The omnipresence of Windows distorts that quite some bit. People who have no business runnig a Windows computer buy one because 'their friend at work' uses one. And with PC hardware closing in on something like 15 concurrent different CPU sockets and the accompaning bunch of RAM types and the likes PCs aren't getting easyer to handle. Windows or not.
The barrier that prevents standard, non-gaming users from using Linux is nothing but a psychological one nowadays. At some time soon Linux/OSS will reach critical mass (probably when MS has pissed off enough customers) and then this will be a non-issue aswell. To me it's a tad ironic that now that I'm a full-time Mac OS X user (fedd up with hardware fiddling and kernelmod linking) that has real work that needs finishing, desktop Linux is finally close to going mainstream.
Loaner! (Score:4, Informative)
I reply that I have had too many problems with Windows and have moved on. I give examples.
I had a photocopyer set up using a scanner and printer. I needed to edit a photo, which launched the 30 day trial software for the photo editor bundled with the machine. Now anytime I want to photocopy something, it launches the photo editor on top of the photocopier software when the scanner is used. I ask if he could fix it for me? It's too difficult for me to fix and is still broken after 6 months.
Both operating systems have things that need to be understood in order to maintain the system. I personaly find Linux easer to fix than fixing what's wrong in the Windows Registry which killed the photocopier. Uninstalling the photo editor did not fix the problem. Now Windows offers to search for the missing exe file when I attempt to photocopy something. I now photocopy on the Linux machine instead. I did not have to install any software or drivers to make it work.
At least in Linux, the programs are operational instead of trialware.
When I have visitors and they want to check their online mail, or want to check something online, I log them into a Ubuntu machine and show them the icon for Firefox. When they are done, I ask how they liked using Linux.
If a Windows user is getting a machine fixed, I offer to lend them a replacement while their machine is being fixed. I provide a machine and give them a password for one of the generic accounts. Seldom do I spend over 5 minutes in user support.
Here, log in like this, here is the menu, here is Firefox, here is Evolution, here is Open Office, here is your home directory, here is the shutdown button for logoff or shutdown. No there is not a C:\.
A properly configured loaner is good. A live CD most times will be a problme because it takes longer than 5 minutes to explain why it doesn't play MP3's and flash sites don't work. After they have used a properly configured loaner, be prepared to help a new user learn the basics from filesystem, printer, email, and network setup. After they understand it isn't Windows, then they will be ready for a live/install CD.
Don't oversell it (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest mistake I think people make is overstating what Linux can do. That just sets people up to be disappointed.
Linux is not the best at everything, and it's not necessarily for everyone. Linux is not a gaming platform, though it does have plenty of fun games (frozen-bubble, anyone?). Linux may be hard to install, and you sometimes have to be choosy when selecting hardware for a Linux, but it gets easier with time, and for me, it was worth it.
Everyone already knows that Linux is great for Linux fanatics. The main points you want to get across are as follows:
Your primary goal is to inspire curiosity.
Re:The answer is right here (Score:4, Insightful)
It all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to sell them on Linux or are you willing to settle for getting them interested in it and start them thinking about switching? If the latter is enough, fifteen minutes should be more than enough.
Parent
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that not everyone is ready to use linux. Let's face it: linux is not for everyone. You need to be smart. When most of people I know ask me about linux, I sedolm recommended to try it out because I know they can't even handle Windows XP. It's sad but it's true.
Parent
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fine to say "They just need someone else to do it for them." because I agree with you, it's true. However it's not practical. I have a large number of students who don't have anyone to look after their computers for them. In fact the major reason for the older people gettings computers is to keep in touch with family who live a long way away or abroad. The worst thing is they often have "a mate from the pub who knows computers". This person is nearly always a complete idiot and has no knowledge of computers but does however know how to reinstall Windows. This is what they beliee qualifies them as an expert.
Now imagine putting Linux in front of these people with no direct support. apt-get? emerge? rpm? How is that easier that sticking in a disc, having it run and clicking next 3 times. These are people who can barely use a mouse, will they know how to search for the correct software? They would rather (and are better off) going to a store and asking for the software, and being sold something that will match their needs AND is eay to install.
I have had more than a handful of students say they have lost several years of digital photos of their grandchildren because a friend formatted their computer and reinstalled Windows. When quizzed about the actual problem it's nearly always a very simple one. In one case it was the keyboard not putting the correct characters on screen (I am in the UK and the keyboard was set to a US layout).
Parent