High Paying Jobs in Math and Science? 383
An anonymous reader asks: "Where are the high paying jobs for those who are good in math and science? I've heard about math and science shortages for almost two decades now, and I was wondering what high salary/high demand jobs have resulted from these shortages. Most science majors I know actually make less than teachers (in Texas teachers make $38-40K to start for nine months of work). In terms of money, what career would you pursue coming out of college right now with a math or science degree?"
For math... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:For math... (Score:4, Informative)
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$40k to start? For nine months of work? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say
Re:For math... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:For math... (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of money, tough maths, and as secure as high-flying financial sector jobs are because demand for those skills is likely to keep increasing in the long term.
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Actuary is a good path worth a lot of money, but the training is brutal and so is the cut rate. I got a degree in math and was making 90K as a software developer within 4 years. I took a bit of a hit at the end of the .com bubble and then back to normal. Unfortunately, I wouldn't wish the politics of most IT environments on anyone.
Take your pick, though. Any job that pays well is going to have it's commensurate load of shit to deal with. Actuaries have brutal training and testing to endure. Doctor
The one you like (Score:4, Informative)
The one you're most interested in. Seriously, if all you care about is money, go be an investment banker or a money whore somewhere else. Our field is littered with people like you who get a job hoping for big bucks but end up circling the drain for a few years while producing horrible work.
However, software engineers at the various consultancies pay fairly well. Perhaps the R&D arm of a pharmaceutical company as well.
Re:The one you like (Score:5, Informative)
It's nice to do what you love, but you have to put food on the table somehow. I know that many fields are tainted with green fever; people looking to make a buck rather than have any real passion for the task at hand. The computer science/fly-by-night cert mill debacle, for example.
It's not a bad thing to ask which jobs will help you pay your student loans and give you a decent quality of life versus ones that will doom you to debt and a monastic lifestyle for years to come.
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It's virtually guaranteed [strappedthebook.com] that the first type of jobs do not exist, and the second type are the only jobs open to people under the age of 37. Even if you earn $160,000/year, to earn that much you're going to have to live in a place that costs you $100,000/year for a studio apartment.
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But really, I think you are wrong. You can easily get a starting job in Austin for between $50 to 60K in the computer fields. Housing will run you about $12K a year renting a 1-bedroom (and that's a decent neighborhood, not the slums). That's plenty left over for food, car, gas, etc.
Layne
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And if that's all that you were spending, that would be fine. But there's also the usury on those student loans (most people don't know this- but the banks can change the interest rate *after* the contract has been signed, un
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I could not disagree more (Score:5, Insightful)
If *everyone* would learn to adjust their expectations about what constitutes a minimal acceptable standard of living so that they can live without debt within or - gasp - below their means - our culture would be wealthier, stronger, and better equipped to face challenges.
My next door neighbors are first generation immigrants from El Salvador. They have a three bedroom house which the two parents, three kids, his dad, her mom, share the house with two renters who live in the basement. 9 people in a 1700 square foot house! This is in one of the wealthiest counties in the States. The mom and dad have two jobs. The grandmother has a job, and the dad has occasional work on a third job. These are people who have little education and very poor English skills. They are thrilled to have the opportunity to live in this country, and they are making it happen. It's tough going, but a better deal than in Central America, and they consider it a privilege to have American citizenship. Perhaps we should, too.
Most of these college kids could live at home, have a part time job, enroll in community college for core credits, before transferring to a 4 year college, drastically cutting their tuition. They could refuse to allow themselves to spend more on their credit card than they can pay in a given month. They could live off-campus with several roommates to minimize housing costs. They could forego cable, cell phones and cars to reduce their expenses until their income increases.
Instead, our culture of consumption tells people that they should "buy it now." People actually think that they cannot expect to pay off a car or a house within their lifetime. Ridiculous!
We're generally narcissistic and convinced that stuff, power, or sex will satisfy us. This leads to frustration, deeper debt, and hopelessness.
It's not that life is hard and these kids are victims! It's that mostly they think that they have to obtain a standard of living that is higher than their income, and they become indentured servants at 20%/year interest.
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I'm not trying to define your standard of living (Score:2)
My response is that college students and grads make CHOICES that influence their financial well being. My goal was to challenge some preconceptions about what standard of living college grads are entitled to have - which has a direct relationship on their financial well being.
If you've got the income to support your own home, please do so. If you don't, then don't blame society if you've made a choice to live
Re:I could not disagree more (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly right. Instead, we had 20 generations of Americans where EACH GENERATION had a higher standard of living than the previous- up until the elimination of usury laws in the 1980s. Suddenly, the next generation had a lower standard of living than their parents.
Reinstate usury laws maximizing credit card and student debt at 10%, and I'd bet the easy credit would dry up- those currently paying 20% would get a break ont their debt, but they'd also never get a credit card again!
Re:I could not disagree more (Score:4, Interesting)
If we cannot figure out how to live within our means- maybe we need to have EXACTLY that happen.
Furthermore, very few people use cash anymore. All transactions are done on credit cards or similar. If you limit the credit limit to 10% of income, then suddenly credit cards become useless. Remember that in the early 80s almost no one used credit cards.
Usury is about interest rates, not about "percent of income". IF you have good credit, loans of up to 600% of income are common in the United States at high interest rates. Loans of 300% of income are easy to find for under 10% interest.
Removing these laws allowed more freedom for the consumer. It is sad that they have used this freedom to enslave themselves. Maybe it was a mistake to get away with these laws in the 80s. Maybe people in general are not as responsible as some thought
So you'd rather leave them in slavery than create laws that fit the responsibility level of the general population? Guess we know which side you're on.
Re:I could not disagree more (Score:4, Informative)
They all got wiped out by a 1986 Supreme Court ruling, which effectively said the usury laws had to be whatever was highest in whatever state the financial company was in. Suddenly, loads of financial companies opened offices in South Dakota- which has no usury law at all. They can now charge watever the market can bear- some companies now charge up to 520% interest on loans.
The problem with capping rates at anything has more to do with inflation than "creating slavery". I am on the side of freedom so I believe that anyone should be able to charge any interest they want provided it is legal. It does take *both* parties to agree on such rates. What I really loath are the contracts where there are additional fees not included in the normal interest rate and this is what is even more alarming than people having a perpetual CC debt at 20% or 30%.
What's more alarming to me is all of these contracts are one-sided; in the fine print the mortage and credit card companies usually add a clause allowing them to change the interest rate unilaterally. I've learned my lesson- and insisted on my last mortgage that I get a fixed rate that doesn't have that clause.
Anyway, what happens when inflation jumps to 10% or 15%? Interest rates on loans have to be *at least* that to just break even, but normally are at least 5% higher. Capping interest rates artificially would stop lending after inflation got high enough. That probably could stop inflation too, except we are now in the global economy era so inflation is usually imported as we are currently seeing (China/India used to export deflation so inflation was pulled very low, but now the wages in China are going up, yuan is going up and base metal and oil prices are 3X-5X higher than a few years ago, so inflation HAS TO happen worldwide. Interest rate increases will not stop it that easy, but I digress)
There's another answer to inflation if the interest rates are capped- a return to supply and demand pricing. With larger prices, demand falls in relation to supply, which triggers deflation.
Maybe the only possible solution is to flag people with debt problems so they can no longer get any loans. But that maybe seen as draconian as well.
Well, you see, that's what a usury law does- people with debt problems, who get charged those higher rates of interest, simply can't get loans anymore. If inflation goes beyond the usury, that is EVERYBODY who has a debt problem (inflation is a sign of irrational credit management) and nobody can get a loan.
In conclusion, I think people should be more responsible themselves as if they get into these debt problems it is usually their own doing.
And if everybody gets into these debt problems because a certain segment of society believes that they are owed a profit no matter what (inflation is driven by CxO salaries after all)?
PS. But if you are talking about the "payday loans" businesses, I really think they should be shut down. These prey on the uninformed or otherwise and I do not think there is ANY reason for their existence. If one cannot get a loan from a normal bank (ie. a line of credit) or does not have a CC because of current debt load, then they should not get more debt. Sadly these "payday loan" sharks are allowed to exist. Very sad.
Payday loans are just an extension of the primary problem- they would not be able to exist if their ability to charge interest was limited. Bring back the usury laws, and predatory lending such as Credit Cards and Payday Loans disappear- because their profit margin is such that they can't survive without those interest rates.
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To me, the bold part should read "opportunity to work in this country".
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There are definitely areas where it's easier than others, and the system is making the socio-economic gaps bigger but you can do it. I know several people who are completely debt free (excluding their mortgages) and living on modest (for the DC area) incomes quite
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Psychological studies also seem to back up the theories that stuff, power (actually, control), and sex make people happy.
Desiring these things does not lead to "frustration, deeper debt, and hopelessness." Bad finance management is what causes those problems. You have your causation confused.
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Perhaps you don't know just how far in debt they are- or perhaps your idea of "a better standard of living than one's parents", which was once part of the American Dream, is the same as immigrants from South America.
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And besides, what some people consider boring, can turn out to be something you love. I love designing/creating databases, it seems boring as heck to some people, but to me its actually fun. So let the guy find something he might get paid well for AND enjoy doing.
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$30K a year is not bad for a single guy in his twenties. The problem is that many scientists are still making $30-$40K a year (e.g. as post-docs) in their 30's and 40's. It's hard to support a family on $30K a year - particularly if you're also hoping to save up enough to buy a house, pay for your kid's college and have enough left over for your own retirement.
In fact, let's do the math. Suppose you want to retire at age 65 and die at age 85 w
Re:The one you like (Score:5, Insightful)
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-7.5% FICA (-2250)
-5% 401(k) (-1500)
-15% IRS (-4500)
-$300 a month for student loans (using your example) (-3600)
=$18k a year take home = $1,500 a month to live on.
Rent on a 700sf apartment, 1br/1ba, in just about anywhere that has tech jobs nearby (California, Boston area, etc) will run you $800 a month easy. $700 a month for a complete dive in a crack infested neighborhood.
Electricity / heat / water - $100 / month (being conservative).
Cable (internet / maybe also tv) - $60 / month.
Phone
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If you don't mind literally throwing most of your money away every paycheck (renting vs. owning) don't have a wife and/or kid, and don't have any other dependents/obligations, then sure.
Not everyone is in that circumstance.
If I didn't have those, I would have been rolling in the cash.
You're not exactly into financial planning for your future, are you? Planning on living on social security when you retire, or what? If you look at life like a h
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BTW, renting versus owning is no longer such an obvious choice either. In many places in this country you will throw away $1000+ a month simply on interest, taxes and insurance, not to mention maintenance. Often its wiser to spend that $1000 on a decent apartment then sock the extra you would be paying in principal into a good investment. Possibly real-estate even, but not necessarily your real-estate. It all de
Re:The one you like (Score:5, Insightful)
No man has true freedom unless his passive income exceeds his living expenses. Only once you reach this level of freedom (which corresponds to having about $800k well-invested in most of the USA), can you really do whatever the hell you are truly passionate about, with no compromises.
The quickest way to get there, for most people, is to get a college degree in a field with high market value, live cheap, and invest everything you can in revenue-generating business that you don't have to manage (so you can keep working on what you specialize in). ETFs (like DIA) make this REALLY easy to do. If you can stomach extra volatility, leveraged ETFs (like DDM) could greatly shorten the time it takes for you to be be a self-made trust-fund baby (er... middle aged person).
Advice of "do whatever you're most interested in [regardless of pay]" sounds nice, and may be more fun in the short term, but it is much less likely to bring you true freedom than being a "money whore."
When you can live off of your investments, you can change jobs, contracts, and careers at will. Otherwise, you will be filling out TPS reports, all-the-while chained to your current job for the ability to feed yourself and afford medical care.
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So true. I went into Computer Science because I didn't want my family to face the same financial hardships my parents faced while raising me and my siblings. I'm not trying to abuse the system, or slack off, or produce anything but the best possible designs with thorough testing and superb documentation. But there are dozens of fields of knowledge that interest me, and I picked thi
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Unless, of course, you find literature or Poli Sci cool. In that case, it's time to start thinking about grad school. Here's a hint, though: unless you're a bright enough prospect that you get a funded free ride with stipend through grad school, you will not earn any money with your PhD or MA.
It's certainly possible to earn high-
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Economics (Score:5, Informative)
There is also several consulting firms that *love* Physics Ph.D.'s. Not sure about Math people on that one though. This one would require *a lot* of travel though.
Hope that helps
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Even pondered getting a satellite feed for tick-by-tick data recording, so I could build a nice dataset for coding up some nice AI and analysis code. But the cost is prohibitive so I've been using yahoo quotes :)
Re:Economics (Score:4, Interesting)
There isn't a one size fits all solution, but I would tell you to get a PhD in Physics, Math, Computer Science, or Electrical Engineering. Not because those subjects are relevant, but companies such as Goldman Sachs (finance) and McKinsey (consulting) hire PhD graduates because they are smart and can solve problems. McKinsey for instance holds "boot camps" at my university where PhD students near graduating go through rigorous interviews where their problem solving skills are evaluated. Many PhD students do not pass, but those who do are given very lucrative salaries. The major downside is that they are in high stress jobs.
Some anecdotes: 1) A colleague of mine went to McKinsey boot camp where the interviewer basically gave him a bunch of charts, tables, and graphs and asked, "These are financial data about company X. Tell me about A, B, and C." And then, "Okay, can you tell me about foo?" What are A, B, C and foo in this story? It doesn't matter, the idea is that they want people who can quickly analyze information, form conclusions, and then synthesize solutions to problems.
2) Another friend went to a Credit Suisse interview where they basically had a written exam; math, computer programming, finance. And then an oral exam where the interviewer asked brain teasers. Again, the idea is that financial companies are hiring smart people, not skilled people.
3) I went to a colloquium where a gentleman from wall street talked about options pricing and modeling said options in order to make money. He mentioned that today people with Physics, Math, and EE PhDs are in demand on wall street because they can do the complex math involved to model stock/options/commodities markets. (Interestingly, business oriented degrees such as finance and accounting are not considered for these type of jobs.) Theoretical physics winds up being preferred because Mathematicians are rarely interested in "getting their hands dirty" with real world applications.
So to answer your question, if you really want to get into this line of work, prove to companies that you are smart and a problem solver. Get a PhD in a mathematical rigorous field. But be aware that these types of profession are very high pressure. These people work long hours with short deadlines. Burn-out rates can be pretty high. Some people say you're trading a couple of years (the best years) of your life for a six-figure salary.
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I will definitely enjoy it, but I'm only doing it because I decided that I don't really have the full complement of ski
Scientist (Score:5, Interesting)
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Biology: $12-14/hr
Chemistry(non-oil): $18-20/hr
Physics: $20-22/hr
Mathematics: $10-12/hr
Geology/Geosci (non-oil): $16/hr
Geosci(oil): $24-40/hr
Note that these are the salaries at the start and will go up quickly if you are worth it, are willing to relocate, and shop around. If you are good but have no "experience", just focus on getting a foot in the door.
Without a doubt (Score:4, Funny)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._E._Shaw_&_Co [wikipedia.org].
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Chemical Engineer, Petroleum Engineer? (Score:5, Informative)
One nice thing about the job is you get to work with huge cool dangerous equipment. If you work for the right company in the right capacity you might even contribute to solving some important problems, like petroleum dependency.
Re:Chemical Engineer, Petroleum Engineer? (Score:4, Interesting)
One of my friends just enrolled for a year work in a gas reprocessing field somewhere in the middle of the desert in Qatar. He's probably making well over 75,000 USD/year (his first job!!) Not hearing much from him again, but the description of the place and living conditions were just... scary.
I now live in Dubai (in a business that has nothing to do with oil and doesn't make remotely as much money) and I see these poor souls coming from Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi etc for R&R: nightclub, booze, and cheap Russian hookers (Dubai as an endless supply of all three). Some of them look really traumatized
Only a shortage for the brilliant (Score:4, Insightful)
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You still could if you don't mind drowning in student loan debt.
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If you're (you in the plural sense of anyone reading this) disappointed by your $50k salary in science, blame your fellow scientists who are all too happy to accept such a pathetic salary when they could get double that as an auto mechanic.
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Reading comments like this frustrates me. I attended a year of law school before realizing what apparently took you six years in getting a Ph.D. There actually *aren't* as many law jobs as you seem to think; consider this [careerjournal.com] article from the Wall Street Journal. From the article:
Talent goes where the money is (Score:4, Interesting)
The talent is always going to go where the money is. If the serious money was in math and science (instead of finance and business) then the brightest young Americans would be pursuing careers in math and science.
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As an answer to his question, I would say `anywhere.' You s
If they won't pay your salary... (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's the test: can you go out and form your own company and make more than you are being offered? If you cannot, then you've just discovered why somebody else doesn't want to hire you for that kind of money. Stop thinking about it as how much you are "worth" because of your educational expenditures, and start looking at the income you can reliably, continuously produce for your company. Once you have that number, divide it by three* and that's what your salary should be.
*okay, maybe two in a really large organization with low overhead, or if you fall at the very low or high ends of the payscale. But you're unlikely to be in either of the high/low paid cases.
Re:If they won't pay your salary... (Score:4, Informative)
Here's the thing - even if you were to go out on your own, you wouldn't get to keep that 100,000. Sure, you can work from a home office - if you already have a clientele and never have to have a face to face meeting or do any marketing where the client comes to see your facility. Otherwise you need a real office or have to rent a conference room in a shared space, then admit you don't have a "real" office. Not very professional (oh, I'm gonna get flamed for that one).
Next, you'll need to come up with your employers part of the taxes for your salary, and your benefits. Taxes for a small firm are probably down in the 10-12% range for everything (payroll, which is 7.2% off of the top, plus capital/merchant's tax, on things like your software and computers, desk, chairs, etc.) - no big deal. Benefits...well, your dead simple health plan will run you $3k a year on yourself - if you're healthy. The "good" healthcare you get from the fed gov't will cost you about $10,000/yr, and still won't cover everything. Add a few hundred to thousand if you get dental. Life and disability might go another couple hundred. Retirement will run about 3-5% more for a simple 403(b)/401(k) as long as you don't put any of your "own" money in and expect it to get matched. Then there's vacation, holiday, and sick leave. We'll call that 30 days (10 federal holidays, 2 weeks of vacation, 2 weeks of sick). That's going to reduce your 52 week output by 13% - but we'll just call it a cost; actually, it's 13% of your gross billables, so at 100k, that's closer to 32% of your take home pay. Although you might have your computer now, you'll need to buy proper software licenses, and keep them current. Mine run about $2000-$2500/yr for the basics, on average, if you include upgrades that aren't annual. No more educational Word for you. We'll say 5% of your salary. Now, let's talk business insurance. General liability? Good idea - probably 3% if you're careful and don't have much to insure. You're a scientist, so errors and omissions might be prudent as a consultant (mine is 12% of gross billables - that'd be about 30% of your net income at 40k). We'll give you $100/mo for supplies (paper, toner, pencils, etc.)
Now, you're going to have to do some continuing education, or seminars, plus you'll need to do the accounting and taxes, and no doubt a bit of marketing - having only one client is a dangerous place to be when you're on your own. We'll give you $3000 for your total travel budget and seminar fees (which isn't much), add 2 weeks of missed work for marketing and said education (again, low, but we'll assume you have good clients), then drop 2 hours a week on billing, taxes, and other adminitrative fees.
So, where do we stand...you don't have an office, and you don't pay yourself back for internet, rent, electricity, or heat/ac. You meet clients around your kitchen table. You keep up with your field and you do a bit of marketing (which includes those unbillable calls for potential clients that always crop up). You pay your taxes and file on time with the local, state, and fed athorities. You pay for software - no warez on your machine. I'm getting about $48,000 in fees and "lost work" over the course of your $100,000 year, leaving you almost $12,000 to the good! Of course, that presumes that you do manage to make all that time billable.
FWIW - I have an office, though it's in the low rent district, someone to do my accounting, and a part time cad student to help out. On January 1, I know I will owe $80,000 to various people over the next 12 months, so that number above isn't just blowing smoke.
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You need a house, a car, diapers for the kids. You're educated. You won't take less than 80k.
A company produces widgets which sell for $3.85 each. They have several competitors in a relatively mature market, and cannot raise prices significantly without losing net income.
They want to develop the next generation widget and have a target value of $4.35. They think the market is good, and the accounta
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Part of the premise of an open market is free movement of labour. And that's exactly consistent with outsourcing labour to where the labour is cheapest.
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Globally we only have free movement of capital, not labor. Hence, you can move your manufacturing from America to China, but you cannot move your Chinese workers to the States.
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I'm sure glad I went into engineering instead.
Teachers (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, there are some crappy teachers out there that give them a bad reputation, but you can say that about any profession.
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Re:Teachers (Score:5, Insightful)
Show me a teacher who only puts in the hours 8-4, and I'll show you a teacher that the administration feels "isn't putting in the effort", and "is only doing the minimum needed to get by".
And the thing is, they're right. 8-4 is just the time they are required to be AT SCHOOL, in the room. Any teacher worth their salt spends plenty of extra time making sure that their lessons are prepared for the next day (or week) and that they are generally ready for anything the class can throw at them. Teaching doesn't just "happen"; it requires a tremendous amount of prep and organizational work.
Also, the vacation is lengthy, but fairly inflexible. Hope you don't want to take any time off OTHER than what the district says, or you've got some problems. Want to take a month off in March instead? Too bad! It's definitely a trade off.
Don't get me wrong, the vacation time is nice, but it has its flip side, and if you think it's a 40 hour a week job, you're deluding yourself. (Or talking about the crappy teachers who DO deserve the low end.)
Which brings us to...
"but why should experienced teachers get more money than the new teachers. They are doing the same job"
Erm.
EXCUSE ME?
Let me turn it around, and see if I can point out just a little bit of hubris on your part. Why should an experienced software developer get more money than a new one? They're doing the same job? Why should an experienced ANYONE get more money?
Answer: Because they do it better. Because years of experience mean that they will generally be more efficient at whatever the job is, do it better, with fewer errors, and have more bandwith to deal with more things. They will also have the experience to deal with the stranger situations that pop up, and will generally require less supervision and be more valuable employees. If you somehow think that this doesn't apply to teachers just as much as it applies to anyone else, then you have a very distorted view of teaching.
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Seniority doesn't equal doing a better job. If they are in fact a better teacher, than they should get paid more. Just as the more experienced developer who's better should get paid more. However, I've seen a lot of mediocre teachers who get paid more just by the fact that they've been there longer, and not because they are any better than any of the other teachers. Just like my example with bus drivers, just because you've been doing it for 25 years, doesn't mean that
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One thing to consider is that progressive raises are not *just* about improveme
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Re:Teachers (Score:5, Informative)
For me and other people in my school, we are required to be at school from 8-4. However, we also run programs before and after school, often unpaid. During athletics, I might spend another 15 or 20 hours on the weekend supervising the student store. I coach Academic Decathlon for a stipend of $500 per YEAR. I run a peer suicide intervention program that also earns me a stipend, another whole $600 per year. Students often call my home or show up at my door at all hours. I tutor, I meet with parents, I run evening workshops to help students write college essays and do their FAFSA. That doesn't include grading or lesson planning or report cards or any of the million things that have to be done.
Last week was my last week of school and this week, I'm working at the district office for a week, revising curriculum so that it will work better for our students. I considered getting a summer job, but instead I have to go to school to take classes so I can keep my certification. I'll finish school the week before my fall inservice. In addition to specific college classes I have to take, I have to do yearly trainings on the weekend on topics like Fetal Alcohol Effect, Domestic Violence, and First Aid/CPR.
I don't mind doing a job where I make less money than I would somewhere else, because I made a conscious decision to leave my tech job and take a job in education. I do however mind being told how easy my job is, and how great the hours are, and how well I'm paid. I'm also tired of people who think I must not have been able to get a "real" job and that's why I got an education degree.
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Plainly you were only taught by rookie teachers.
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On top of this, UF is here in town, so as you can imagine, there are *l
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President of the World Bank (Score:3, Insightful)
The tags say it all (Score:4, Interesting)
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Nah, they're on their way out. No, I mean become a Hedge Fund Manager. Or a high class banker. Move to NYC, the only place the housing market bubble still exists.
(US) Corporate R&D - RIP (Score:2)
Operations Research / Applied Math (Score:4, Informative)
There's OR applications in areas such as health-care, environmental management, forestry management, transportation, and much more. Environmental management, in particular, is something that operations research is going to play a huge role as government and industry focus on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
And because there's such a practical role towards it, there's plenty of support from government and industry, not just in terms of jobs at the end but also scholarships, fellowships, etc. Ask around a math, CS, or engineering department! I'm sure it won't be hard to find someone who can point you in the right direction.
Math degree - DSP (Score:2)
Gov't (Score:4, Informative)
Some of the best non-academic jobs out there for math/science are government or government contractors. Obviously, the NSA is a huge one. There are many other national labs and research institutes. Sanida, LLNL, NSWC, etc. Pay is good (not actuary good, but good) and benefits are very good. The added plus is you work a 40 hr week. With a masters, I think you can start between 50-60K. That beats starting at 70-80K in finance and working twice as much... but that's just my feeling.
On the other side, there are government contractors. Metron, SAIC are two big ones. There are numerous smaller ones. These will have slightly higher pay, and some retirement plans at them are really fantastic. The downside is that some smaller ones rely heavily on one specific type of research.
The other thing I've noticed in my job search is that, not to insult engineers, but many companies feel that if you know the math/science, you can learn the engineering quickly. If you have some basic experience in, say, math application in petroleum engineering, then Exxon would love to talk with you.
That being said, I'm staying in academia and doing a post-doc next year. Pay is okay (55K
Good luck to any of you who decide to go into math/science. The US REALLY needs good scientists!
Why pay for science and math??? (Score:2, Insightful)
My fellow physics graduates that wanted to stay in physics wanted to do research. First, the physics that man understands is far beyond w
Better get that PhD (Score:3, Informative)
If you do get a PhD, then apply for a job at a hedge fund company. You can make very respectable money at a company like that, although they generally have their pick of the litter.
Science pays generally well. (Score:2)
Where are the high paying jobs for those who are good in math and science? I've heard about math and science shortages for almost two decades now, and I was wondering what high salary/high demand jobs have resulted from these shortages. Most science majors I know actually make less than teachers (in Texas teachers make $38-40K to start for nine months of work
Huh? I've yet to see a new science-degreed grad make less than a starting teacher in the same geographical region. Make sure you're comparing entr
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Teachers in the suburbs around the bigger cities (where most science jobs would be) pretty much get $40K. 45% of the teachers work in these districts. Here is a quote from TexasISD.com:
Starting Pay
The average starting salary for a new teacher is $32,266, a 10-percent increase from the 2005-06 average of $29,354. This year's average starting salary is 18 percent higher than the state minimum starting salary of $27,320. The average sta
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The average starting salary for a new teacher is $32,266,
That I'll buy. $40k sounded high for a state average for newbies.
The average starting salary in districts with more than 10,000 students is $39,457, an 8.5-percent increase from last year.
For those sorts of urban and technical areas (such as Houston, DFW, and Austin), I'd be surprised to see BS scientists starting less than $40k. Especially the oil industry should be buying up geography, chemistry, geology, and related disciplines. Physics, m
Quant Finance (Score:2, Interesting)
Dr. Science... (Score:4, Funny)
Investment banking is not about math. It's about Andover, Exeter, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, yachting, golfing, playing squash and knowing which years were good in Graves vs. Medoc. It's a salesman's game. Same with law. If you want to be one of the rich lawyers, you must be a salesman. The lawyers who are not salesmen do not make partner and see the 7-figure annual distribution checks.
If you enjoy math for the sake of doing math, you're going to want to look into physics, cosmology, astronomy etc...and you're going to be looking at PhD to get employment. There's only so many jobs in these fields and there are more PhD's than jobs, so why hire anyone without a PhD? Don't go there unless you really love math and you're more talented than 90% of the math majors.
If you want to work in science, you've got chemistry which is revived as nano-this and nano-that, biology which is really genetics or molecular biology for big pharma, and you've got computer science, robotics, and the various engineering disciplines. If you want to get somewhere with a BS, you'll probably do better in engineering and CS.
If you like talking to people, solving puzzles, or cutting meat, go to medical school.
If you want to really make money, start a business. No college required. Just a good idea, ability to sell, ability to execute, courage and persistence. The good idea is the easiest part.
My brother majored in mathematics at a top school. He minored in philosophy. He had a 3.75 GPA. After getting his BA, he could have gone the teacher route, the professor route or into defense contracting. Instead, he chose to work in housekeeping at the lodge on the north rim of the Grand Canyon. 15 years later, he manages a $15 million unit of a billion dollar business with a couple of hundred employees reporting to him. The most direct route isn't always the most rewarding.
Same advice as to anyone else... (Score:3, Insightful)
Keep your eye on the ball, which is 5 years from now, no matter when now is. That 40% you put into growing your money will compound no matter how poorly you manage it. In 5 years you will have a hell of a lot more money than you had before AND because you bought a house your housing investment will also appreciate and you can then sell and get something much nicer.
In 10 years you may even look like a respectable member of society AND you'll have enjoyed getting there.
So get a job, any job, that you like... and then live. Set your life up correctly, then relax and let time do the work for you.
Quant Analyst (Score:3, Informative)
There are many kinds of Quant, this is what some of them do, but it's not exhaustive -
1) Desk Quant - help traders understand trading issues on a day-to-day basis. Rapid application development (probably on Excel/VBA/C#), quick/pragmatic thinking are essential skills here.
2) Analytical Developer - less math (still got to understand it though), more programming (exceptional skills). Development of analytics libraries - probably implementing/optimising/enhancing ideas that a Desk Quant or Modeller has developed for the desk. Much more 'backroom', but not as well paid.
3) Quant Modeller - concentrate on developing new model ideas, and requires very very very good maths skills. What most people mean when they talk about 'a Quant'. Make a packet of cash if they develop something useful (before the rest of the market does).
What do I do? I'm mostly 1 and 2 in Equity Exotics at a US bank. I'm well paid and love my job. It's very hard work, but that's what you get paid for! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Make sure you study stochastic calculus in your degree (Math/Physics/CompSci). Do the degree to an advanced level at a good school (get at least a Masters or Phd). You should at least know what Black-Scholes is and how to derive it. Don't be scared to apply - those who don't ask, don't get.
There are many other things to consider - what asset class you would like to work in - Equities, Credit, Energy, FX, Commodities, Rates... or which area - Risk, Trading, Research, etc., Each has different emphasis on skills, different requirements of computing and math skills. My bank lets Quants move between asset classes and job emphasis, I don't think this is universal though.
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40k/(10.5 hours * 5 days * 4 weeks * 9 months) ~=~ $21/hours
40k/(8 hours * 5 day * 4 weeks * 12 months) ~=~ $21/hours
So in fairness teachers salarys are competitive with the market.
Some will say that is a lot of money for 9 months worth of work. Which we used you 10.5 hours average a day realize that they are getting the same per hours as someone making 40k for 12 months with 8 hour days.
But there are some devil in the details...
Most corperate people don't have the follo
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OK, I'm a teacher, and I am not complaining about my salary. It's not great, but I'm not unhappy with it. However - My school year this year is August 27 to June 25. That's 10 months. I'm tired of the "9 months" thing.
Also, where are all these people getting the idea that only the very most dedicated teachers work outside the regular day? You can't survive as a teacher that way. We even have to sign a responsibility contract that says we will
Re:Nine months... what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most teachers, esp. those whohave never done anything else, don't realize that most salaried workers work more than 40 hours for their paychecks, and often see about 15-20 days of total leave.
Most non-teachers don't understand that for most of the day, a teacher is "on" and teaching requires more "quality" work time during those 4.5-6 hours than your typical cube drone in the same span of time.
Me? I don't work for the Man, I am the Man. When I don't come in to work, I don't get paid. If I take vacation, I don't get paid. If I don't do my job completely, I don't get paid. I don't get health insurance, retirement benefits, disability, or any other perk unless I pay for it. I have to pay for my annual training twice - once for the training, and again in the time that I'm not able to bill clients. I work about 50 hours a week (plus
Teachers actually get paid similarly what someone in industry with similar "ability" would get paid, on an annual basis, but they do have a lot more free time. If they choose to spend that free time on their classes and their career, that's their choice for the most part. Every discipline has people who like what they do, and part of that time is rightfully considered "hobby", not paid service. The trick is finding that person to work for you, or be your teacher, or provide you with their service.
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Are you seriously concluding that if a teacher isn't in the schoolhouse then they're not doing any work?
You have absolutely no idea of the extra work public school teachers go through. My mother has taught public school for the past 20 years, and she has ALWAYS brought work home with her to do.
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Hate to break it to you, but doctors and lawyers (not sure about engineers) have their own form of unionization. The American Medical Ass
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All hail the free market!
oh please (Score:2)
However, at no point should they be buying supplies, and they wouldn't be if they stopped.
OTOH, I ahve bought a lot of supplies for both my childrens class room, and I don't get 3 months off, plus I usually work more hours.
WHenever looking at teachers salarys, alway make the 25% larger wheh comparing to other fields.
I gaurentee you every other inducstry has many people working more then 40.