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When Are Kids Old Enough to Play Videogames?
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Jan 24, 2008 01:21 PM
from the old-enough-to-make-the-jump-in-1-1 dept.
from the old-enough-to-make-the-jump-in-1-1 dept.
A piece at the MTV Multiplayer blog is exploring the issue of kids and gaming, wondering aloud how old is 'old enough'. A recent CES talk indicated that you should wait until at least seven to introduce your children to Mario, and we've talked in the past about the educational role games can have. MTV's Tracey John spoke to a pair of mothers who offered their own opinions on this topic: "When I asked Alisa why she thought that games weren't imaginative and explained that many games have challenging, puzzle-solving elements, she conceded a little but remained skeptical. 'Honestly, I haven't really explored video games thoroughly, and I'm sure there are video games that fit more the bill of something that I'd be interested in, but I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book or something like that. I understand the kids like it, so I allow them to do it; it's monitored but it's not my favorite thing for them to be doing.'" What's the right age for a kid to start playing games? Do you see games as more or less acceptable than traditional kid pastimes like TV or reading? Does it matter if the parents are gaming-savvy?
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Games: Violent Games As Great Teachers 69 comments
Gamepolitics and the site Physorg have an in-depth look at a study (pdf) done on the educational nature of violent games. While the implications of the study reinforce the old 'games lead to violent kids' saw, the authors of the research stress that they're more interested in talking up the benefits of games in education. "When considered in the light of what is known to be the "best practices" of education, violent video games appear to be exemplary teachers of aggression ... It should therefore be no surprise that video games are excellent teachers, both of educational content and of violent content... The fact that learning occurs regardless of whether the effects are intentional or unintentional is irrelevant, and should make us more thoughtful about designing games and choosing games for children and adolescents to play."
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They are old enough when... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take some responsibility for your kids, parents, it doesn't hurt as bad as you might think.
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:5, Interesting)
Which experts, the ones working for the games industry, or the ones sponsored by 'pro family' groups?
Expert advice is ok up to a point, that point being not very far on what should be a relatively simple issue.
Young kids need exercise to build themselves up, and they won't get it by sitting on their backsides playing games. If you can't figure that one out for yourself 'expert' advice won't do jack.
A mum in my street with exactly the same access to information as me has two horrendously overweight and unhealthy kids (seriously, adult weight at 13, thats serious, and they started off thin). My kid likes the games, but he gets plenty of exercise, and wasn't allowed to start playing computer games a lot until I was sure he had a decent amount of time running about/playing in his life occurring *without* a special effort being made.
Parent
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:5, Funny)
Naturally, being responsible parents, my wife and I have decided that junior has been playing a bit too much Halo 3. Tonight, he will only get to play Halo for four hours, instead of the usual five. See, parenting is all about employing that kind of responsible judgment.
Parent
moderation and good sense (Score:5, Insightful)
In the meantime
Games have their place, just like anything else (including computers; she can't type yet, but she can navigate her favorite educational websites just fine). They're no more or less dangerous to kids' development than Baby Einstein videos, or educational TV, or pop-up books, or [insert controversial newfangled technology here].
The key here, as with everything else in life, is moderation and good sense.
Parent
Re:moderation and good sense (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't mod you troll - but I also don't feel any particular need to consult "experts" (aside from my folks, who have already demonstrated their wisdom and experience to me, and others who have already gained my trust) for advice. However, I also don't disregard advice from someone just because they're a stranger - wisdom can come from many places.
(infrequently found in slashdot comments though
Parent
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:5, Interesting)
From the sumary:
'Honestly, I haven't really explored video games thoroughly, and I'm sure there are video games that fit more the bill of something that I'd be interested in, but I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book or something like that. I understand the kids like it, so I allow them to do it; it's monitored but it's not my favorite thing for them to be doing
Parents should know what they're letting their kids do before they let them do it. I was playing arcade games long befpre I had any kids, the quoted parent should do a little research, both on child development and the games themselves.
I sought out videogames for my kids. Sesame Street games when they were Sesame Street age, Carmen Santiago later, etc. When they were teens we had a couple of PCs networked and played Road Rash and Quake II together.
Oddly, my ex-wife came to hate video games after enjoying the arcades earlier and the daughters became "daddy's girls" (I played whiffleball with them, as well as playing their "girl things" with them since their mom wouldn't, too. Evil-X wasn't a very good mom). My youngest turns 21 in March, she's manager of a Gamestop store now.
But what would you expect from the daughter of the guy who started the Springfield Fragfest Quake site?
But more freom the ignorant parent quoted above: I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book
Hear that, game developers? How about some old fashioned early 80s text adventures?
or something like that
Where in the world is Carmen Santiago? My kids loved that game. IIRC they were in grade school, but honestly I enjoyed it, too.
-mcgrew
Parent
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:5, Funny)
My $0.02: We don't allow our kids to play video games in our house, but don't say that they can't do so at their friends' houses. That way, we never see our kids
Parent
They can play them when... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As soon as they're interested (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As soon as they're interested (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the key to both activities is adult interaction. With my 4-year-old, he plays some strategy games on the computer, and I explain a little about what is going on and why. When I am at work, he will play around and show me what he has come up with, and sometimes I am impressed what his little mind comes up with. I think if he were just left on his own mashing buttons, he'd get little out of it (now when the little booger can beat me at the games, it won't be so cute ). Same with TV shows. If you find educational programming and spend time discussing and applying it, then it can be useful. You don't even want to know how many life lessons you can get from Thomas the Tank Engine!
Parent
Edubuntu (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a one of the $20 multi game things. Mr PacMan, Pole Pos, Xevious, Mappy, Galaga.
My kids like to watch me and my wife play.
My two year old thinks he is the ghosts when he plays Ms. Pacman, and he also seems to like Xevious.
I should note my kids don't know how to work the VCR, DVD, or TV remote and are have a very limited TV schedule and game time is even less then that.
So I guess, when they are able to physically play let them play. It is now part of our culture.
I expect to get a wii sometime this year just need to save my pennies.
TV (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I know I was personally quite a way ahead of my peers in things like algebra growing up, from little more than having to
Why is TV OK but games aren't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just as I wouldn't expose a child to the "Saw" series I probably wouldn't give them GTA or some of the more gory games either. So why is there such an uproar about the latter, but not the former? It's just plain ignorance.
My kids did not "start" it has just always been... (Score:5, Interesting)
There was no "start" I played games with the kids in my lap from the first day they were born. It is part of their life, part of their culture, part of their education.
It is like asking how old they should be before they are allowed to listen to a conversation...
Re:My kids did not "start" it has just always been (Score:5, Insightful)
As these posts have shown, when the whole family is doing it's a social activity. You can all participate, share stories, reenact bits, talk strategy, etc etc. It's more social than passively sitting around a TV together, that's for sure. A really small child participating in that is just participating in the family social structure.
For a family without gaming parents, though, I can understand why there might need to be different limits. If a 5-year-old is the only person in the family playing video games, it's going to be a more isolated activity. Time they could be spending playing with their parents will be spent alone, for all intents and purposes. Sure, the parents should try to be involved in *everything* their kid does - but if the parent doesn't really understand videogames and their social potential themself, they will have a very hard time getting involved in the same way a gamer parent would. They might hover around and watch to make sure Johnny doesn't play anything violent, they might even ask questions or try to help him solve puzzles. But I'm sure it would never occur to them that even in a one-player game, two people can act as a team with the second person providing feedback and suggestions, or that they might actually have fun if they get an account on the same site and play the game alongside their kid. So without the same social element, it makes sense to have different limits.
Parent
Oblig Mitch (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether a child is "Ready" for such things isnt something that can really be generalized. It really depends on each individual child, their ability to see the difference between reality and escapism, and their desire to make use of this kind of media.
hmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
For me personally, I would want my kid to play things like an Atari 2600, old NES games, old arcade games like Galaga, etc. The purpose behind this is to improve their hand/eye coordination and reaction time, two things that would benefit them in every day life. While every child is different, if pressed to pick an average I would say sometime between the ages of 4-6, depending on the intelligence level and how quickly they developed.
3-4 for Wii sports games (Score:4, Interesting)
I know I was a Pac-man player around age 5-6, but with the Wii being so engaging I can see kids taking off using it sooner. Plus in areas with terrible weather it is a nice way to keep kids moving when outdoor play is not available.
Old enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think any time a child shows interest in any activity, as long as it's monitored and moderated, they should be allowed to do it. And as far as how it compares to the TV; games are more like books that a child can play. I personally think they rank right up there with books as far as importance in this day and age ( note that this means if my daughter plays games for an hour, we read for an hour too ).
Depends on what the game teaches (Score:5, Insightful)
Games like the traditional JRPG or most MMORPGs probably shouldn't be played by children, as they teach that the way to succeed is not to improve your own skills, but to put in a lot of time leveling up. This perspective will be useless in the real world unless they get one of the few seniority-based union jobs.
This sort of philosophical distinction is seldom appreciated in discussions of children and video games, being drowned out by a debate centered on violence, but I think that in a long-term sense it's a much more important consideration.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just like real life.
It all depends... (Score:3, Informative)
I contend that video games don't harm cognitive development, but they (for the most part) don't help it either. Books, on the other hand, do. It's not so much on what's the appropriate time, but rather how much time is appropriate. I started playing video games at the age of seven, but my hours were heavily regulated by my mom, who (like the librarian she was) made sure that I was reading my quota of books for the week and getting my schoolwork done. On the other hand, if you're letting a seven-year-old frag away for five hours a day, then I'd really start getting concerned.
For those who disagree with my statement that video games do not help cognitive development, they don't. Cognitive science research indicates that students develop with "experience," experience being anything that a child experiences, from eating a meal to smelling something yucky to hitting a baseball to getting hit by a snowball to climbing a kitchen cabinet to get to the cookie jar that mom set down on top. Then, as a child learns words, they match words to experiences. If a child limits what they do every day to watching TV and playing video games, they don't get much opportunity to learn by doing. And for a child, tactile learning and feedback plays a crucial role in cognitive development.
A Tale of Two Kiddies (Score:5, Interesting)
Television?! (Score:3, Insightful)
video games are like french fries (Score:3, Insightful)
They're an entertaining diversion that, while not inherently destructive, can be damaging when eaten to excess or in place of other foods. I'm giving games the benefit of the doubt and assuming we're talking about age-appropriate titles and not GTA. Some games have puzzles, but it's nothing compared to, say, playing a strategy board game, doing a crossword puzzle, playing chess, etc. And games do little to enhance verbal ability, unlike reading. If you want to develop fine motor skills, why not take up billiards, foosball, table tennis, golf, etc.
Just like eating one serving of fries isn't going to kill you, neither will playing a moderate amount of games rot a kid's brain. But if he eats fries five times a day and consequently skips the vegetables and fruit...there will be consequences. Also, just like fries (and other unhealthy foods) games can be quite addictive.
Real issue: when are kids a "target group" (Score:3, Insightful)
The lack of games actually targeted towards 2-7 year old kids is a much bigger problem IMHO.
I am a 34 year old gamer, and I have a 2½ year old daughter. I have tried on countless occasions to teach her how to play games (on our PC, Mac, Xbox PS2, DS) but most of the games are either too abstract or too advanced for her. Keep in mind that something as simple as "shooting" is a rather advanced concept for a 2-year old girl, and that "death" or "number of lives" can be a hard thing to teach a kid that age.
The real question is not "when are kids old enough to play videogames" but rather: "when are they old enough to become a target group" in the videogame industry,
Today's games are ill suited for very small kids - not because games in general are bad for kids - but simply because the lack of demand for such videogames has resulted in the absolute absence of suitable games for kids of that age!
- Jesper
(And BTW: suggestions on good games for a 2½ year old girl are welcome...)
I play video games sounds to the womb (Score:3, Funny)
When they can comprehend it is a game... (Score:3, Informative)
However, we do limit them. The most I have let one play is 60 minutes non-stop. Daddy does have to be mean and turn it off sometimes, even to the chorus of tears. Computer time is probably the first privilege they lose when they are disciplined.
They play on them in school. I have no issue with them understanding a mouse click or keyboard. Think of yourself learning how to use a computer. Now think of your parents learning the same thing. You probably had an advantage because you started when you were younger. I feel that if they are comfortable with technology now, they will be more able to assimilate it as they grow up.
I also let them play on the Wii. They are actually quite good at some games. The 5yo has a +170 average on bowling and can also post a decent golf score. I believe it helps their gross and fine motor skills, as well as get some exercise. Anyone who has boxed a few rounds knows what I am talking about.
Like everything in life, the key is moderation...
Here's a hint (Score:5, Funny)
Me, I'm of another camp.
My wife and I started my oldest daughter on the computer when she was 18 months. Loaded up reader rabbit--which is a pretty good starter, where she could start by just banging the keyboard and see stuff happen.
By three, she had mastered drag & drop, thanks to Dora the Explorer and some other games.
At four she saw a game in the store (Zoo Tycoon) and liked the animals, and asked if she could play that. I told her it was probably a tad hard for her, but she insisted she could learn. I bought it and installed it. I helped her get it started, but told her she had to figure it out if she wanted to play. At first she had problems getting the cages built right, and the lions would get out and start going after the patrons... she FREAKED out...of course, after I calmed her down, and gave her a couple hints, she started to get it. She then needed to learn what environment for each animal... She was just learning to read small words at the time, and so I showed her the online help, and told her to keep sounding out the words.
Well, a couple weeks later, she's telling my wife and I all about lions, and how they prefer the Savannah grass, and other things they like. My wife didn't know how she learned it, and when we asked my daughter, she told me she read it in the game. Turns out that she taught herself to read pretty well in a matter of a few weeks.
Now, she's almost six, plays alot of games (including Oblivion, Viva Pinata, Sim City and others), and can read *REALLY* well, along with fantastic math and science comprehension. She also paints and plays sports.
But, hey, if you are afraid that your kids will suffer from too much video games... go ahead, my kids will dominate in the future.
A
Two years old (Score:5, Insightful)
While visiting a zoo one day, they had a Fisher Price exhibit and he tried out the SmartCycle. The lady there was amazed that he picked up on all of the controls almost instantly. (He seems to have inherited his daddy's knack for computers.) In December, he got the SmartCycle as a present and loves pedaling, choosing which games to play, and playing all of the games that we've bought him. He doesn't need anyone to show him how something works. He just does it once or twice and figures it out.
Sure, the video games he's playing are educational in nature and not Super Mario Brothers-type games (much less Grand Theft Auto-type games), but I think introducing computers to toddlers is important. Just make sure to balance their activities out.
Re:ignorant (Score:5, Insightful)
I would find it hard to make the argument that games will ever "equal" books, for the same reason that movie versions of books often don't live up to the original books.
Books require a lot more imagination than games or movies because you have to infer what the people/places/things in the book look/act like based off of the descriptions.
That being said, I think it is hard to compare the three. A book like Hitchhikers Guide would make a poor game (IMO). A game like Metal Gear would make a poor movie (IMO). A game like Bioshock would make a poor book (IMO). But each of those excel at what medium they actually are expressed in.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Correct Dosage, like everything else. (Score:5, Interesting)
We try to approach this with a nerdly view, both Piaget and culture geek influenced. We balance things out with counter-activities and limits. If they want to watch the "idiot-box," they have to prove it won't make them idiots by doing some book research: just about anything, so long as they prove they're developing research skills. We don't have cable, but an excellent collection of video including documentaries. To play a couchpotato video game for an hour, they have to play hard outside for 20 minutes or bounce on the rebounder non-stop 300 times each.
Don't deprive, don't indulge, and be involved. In my home we want the kids to have the same fun and cultural reference as their peers, but develop in a non-alienated way. Two hours of screen time (tv or gaming) a day max, and we aim for less than 10 hours per week. We often read aloud or sitting next to each other. Plus, if they start to obsess, they wind up on a 'diet,' learning restraint and dosage (and better negotiation technique). We do see TV and gaming as consciousness-altering and physiologically risky.
Both parents teach media literacy workshops on the side, so we have to eat our own dog food! But the thing is that the kids rarely got introduced to a show or game without a parent ready to interject. Thus, they are pretty clear on the nature of advertising, product tie-in, and consumer choice, as well as ferreting out the values they're getting from a show or game. We introduced them to video games slowly, later for the girl (starting age 6) because she's a ferocious reader and didn't show much interest, earlier for the boy (starting @ 4) so that his peer pressure wasn't too awkward. Basically, we started with puzzle games, then moved to management games, then action games. It worked well to keep them focused on playing smart, so I recommend a staged method of introduction.
This approach works for us, because the primary entertainment around here is a book.
Parent
Re:Correct Dosage, like everything else. (Score:5, Insightful)
No games really match the mindlessness portrayed of them by the media.
And one last point. Books are better for social development than a video game? Last I checked people don't tend to get together to read books, but frequently get together to play games. Either in front of one TV or over the internet using voice chat to communicate, makes little difference.
Parent
Re:Correct Dosage, like everything else. (Score:4, Interesting)
And one last point. Books are better for social development than a video game? Last I checked people don't tend to get together to read books, but frequently get together to play games. Either in front of one TV or over the internet using voice chat to communicate, makes little difference.
Avast, ye philistine! Well, I guess it is /., so:
Look, I'm not saying there's no place for video games or that they don't work the brain. I'm saying that the socialization that comes from being well-read and the mental organization of having a good grasp of narrative is more important than what most people get out of video gaming. If a seriously shy nerd can get some collaborative skills and strategic reckoning from gaming, great (d00d)... but there are other ways to get those skills, too. What you get from being well-read is probably impossible to get any other way.
Parent
Re:ignorant (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that i got into computer because of video games. I played console games but when my parents got a PC i was determined to play games on it. The drive i had to actually use the computer enabled me to learn my way around the OS when i couldn't figure something out. If there was noting interesting on the computer for me i would have not used it when it wasn't working. Instead i learned how to fix any problem on a computer myself, something i am very happy i know how to do for myself today.
Parent
Re:When you think they are (Score:4, Interesting)
I started my niece and nephew on games at an early age - but I kept it strictly limited to older and simpler games, primarily Atari 2600 ports. When they're 3-4 years old, they can't understand anything overly complicated and should focus primarily on movement and avoidance, as well as pursuit of obvious goals. The games should be fairly easy as well, until they begin to reach their second decade (or until they start to show real skill and need a challenge).
A younger kid can easily enjoy a primitive video game just as well as we could (back when those games were new). It's not until they're exposed to more modern games that the old games begin to show their age. Tempest, Galaga, Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Robotron, and other simple games are ideal for children. Save the modern console games for later, when their minds are hungry for more. Educational games are great, but entertainment is a goal in itself - and entertainment is the first priority of any game, with educational value being a secondary bonus in some cases. Do the education yourself, and let them learn to have fun with their games before you start turning them into work.
That said, educational games are extremely useful, and can form a major component of their learning. They have little value until the child can read well, though. Reading software is entertaining, but usually (from what I've experienced with my relatives) are susceptible to being bypassed by an imaginative child - my niece got through most of her "reading" games without bothering to actually read much.
The key issue, and the one that people usually seem to miss or be incapable of enforcing, is moderation. Limited video game time will not harm your child. Parents can maintain total control of any source of video games when their children are young, and can maintain significant control even into their teens. The primary mistake average parents make is the same one our parents usually made with TV - specifically, using it as a pacifier. If you hand your kid a console, show them how to use it on their own, and then provide very little supervision, the kid WILL spend hours upon hours on his games. Too much time spent in a virtual environment just plain isn't good - but that doesn't mean that limited and controlled time, especially when active parental interaction is involved, is in any way damaging.
Moderation is key, in almost all things. Especially when it comes to children and video games.
Parent
Interesting source... (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, technology's not quite that advanced yet. You still have to press the buttons.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? You do know that video games are not real right? They arent actually stealing real cars... My girlfriends 5 year old loves just driving around in GTA, because he sees me driving around IRL and wants to imitate it. Its more about spending time with the kids then the content of the game. Racing games where you can both drive around together teaches sportsmanship and gives the kid a sense
Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:4, Interesting)
We recently got rid of the tv in our house, and we haven't let our kids (4 and 6 - those are ages, not names) get into video games.
We replaced the tv with more reading and audiobooks. They also have started to do a lot more imaginative play - dress up, pretending with their dolls, and tying knots in anything they can find. They seem much more aware of their surroundings now - much less zoned out. They don't seem to miss the tv.
Parent
Re: Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Interesting)
But... TV and video games are two widely accepted social norms. They're your kids, so how you raise them is your business. But consider that perhaps allowing restricted TV watching and video games would yield a similar positive result, but also allow your children a solid frame of reference for social interaction with their peers.
Parent
Re: Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly? Too much common sense and well-placed concern isn't fair to kids. Not letting them play games until a certain age will have a direct correlation to what friends they can possibly have at school, and that will affect other things as well. Everything parents do has a ripple effect, and the ripple effect of letting them play games so they can interact with their poorly-parented peers is better than the ripple effect of being sheltered, media-suspect hippies. Even better? Letting them play games that push the limit of good taste, and then criticising said game, and explaining your reasons. This teaches that the media is the message, and the critical thinking required to interpret the message is far better for them than telling them to avoid anything challenging or different. Ex: Is that how we treat innocent bystanders? By spraying them in the face with spray-paint? No, no it isn't. Would you like that if someone did it to you? No you wouldn't. Be like Daddy, and use your ak-47, get up close, and you'll get a one-hit headshot. Then use a vehicle you've placed close-by to escape any uniformed police officers. Head for a safehouse.
Parent
Re:Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Interesting)
Any improvement you see comes from striking the TV, not the games.
Video games ARE interactive. They DO encourage kids to try things, play with things, explore things.
Since our kid was old enough to manipulate a mouse (that's before age 2), he was allowed to play with things like poissonrouge.com (try it! Tell me how that would lead to a "zoned-out" kid) or things like starfall.com. He was a fluent reader before age 4. He got into second grade last summer (at age 5) and has the highest reading marks in his class. Because of the "interactive entertainment" (i.e. games) on Starfall -- And certainly not something you'd get from "listening to audiobooks" or "tying knots into things".
On the other hand, our TV was last tuned to an actual station back in 2001. It is used to watch a video or two per week. Which is perceived as a treat by all involved, not something that we'd do all the time.
I'd say what kids need is stimulation and activity; and video games can be as mentally active as any other game -- and then some. Quite frankly I consider some of the games at lego.com a lot more enriching to my son than the actual assembly of a lego model. The latter is passive entertainment as it merely follows some prescribed assembly instructions. Fortunately he's into modifying them immediately and creating cool spaceships out of cars and vice versa.
Computers are a new medium -- and a highly interactive medium at that. My child will be immersed in it his whole life. I certainly wouldn't want him to grow up without instinctual mastery of the concepts involved. Six-year-olds who don't know what a mouse is frighten me as much as six-year-olds who don't know what a pen is.
Parent