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Making Use of Terabytes of Unused Storage

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sat Feb 09, 2008 09:28 AM
from the something-to-think-about dept.
kernspaltung writes "I manage a network of roughly a hundred Windows boxes, all of them with hard drives of at least 40GB — many have 80GB drives and larger. Other than what's used by the OS, a few applications, and a smattering of small documents, this space is idle. What would be a productive use for these terabytes of wasted space? Does any software exist that would enable pooling this extra space into one or more large virtual networked drives? Something that could offer the fault-tolerance and ease-of-use of ZFS across a network of PCs would be great for small-to-medium organizations."
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  • Porn (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:29AM (#22359676)
    It's the obvious choice.
      • Re:Typical IT guy (Score:5, Informative)

        by kernspaltung (975145) on Saturday February 09 2008, @03:44PM (#22362692)
        Way to jump to conclusions about me and how I manage a network. I honestly didn't ask the question as a "control freak", I don't spy on the employees, and I don't play Internet cop. I try to get them the tools they need to do their jobs, help them when things don't work, and otherwise stay out of their way. I also didn't imply the pool would be for me to do with as I please; I can see several ways in which that storage would benefit our business were it not spread out in small chunks. The users have all that space, and they simply DO NOT use it. In our business, they don't have much call for large files like photos, movies, etc. It's mostly spreadsheets and OpenOffice Writer documents. But thanks for being an ass.
  • vista? (Score:5, Funny)

    by stillb4llin (1232934) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:30AM (#22359680) Homepage
    install vista on them, that would fill up that space and give you something to manage your time a little better than wondering about what you could manage..
  • easy! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:34AM (#22359698)
    Does any software exist that would enable pooling this extra space into one or more large virtual networked drives?

    Absolutely! Just hook them up directly to the internet before you update the machines, wait a few minutes, and voila! They'll be filled up with extra files in no time! Hey, you didn't say anything about wanting to be in control of what gets put on the machines...
  • by Mostly a lurker (634878) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:34AM (#22359700)
    If you have a very robust local network with plenty of spare capacity, and can accept a performance hit on the client computers, I am sure some kind of linked filesystem would be possible. In most practical situations, I think this idea would be a non-starter.
    • Please don't (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mnmn (145599) on Saturday February 09 2008, @07:00PM (#22364484) Homepage
      Please do not use the space for anything else. Do not try to actively use the space.

      The reason is the obscenely large amount of power required to use the space given a few gigabytes requires the whole machine to be running, and uses it's CPU which can't be less than 21Watts itself.

      It's actually cheaper to get a 1TB drive and use it elsewhere than use the power on so many desktops (or worse, servers). Even with the desktops in use by active users.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Hrmm... Funny, he didn't come across that way to me at all. You, however, come across as a pompous linguistic Nazi, much like Orwell. If you compose sentences for people who don't have command of the language, then you are really quite delusional.

        As is my understanding, resources are utilised, while tools are used. He was correct in its usage.
      • by fretlessjazz (975926) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:26AM (#22360018)
        Well, you sound like a troll. I seriously doubt anybody misunderstood what he meant because he used the word "utilization". Or, should I say he utilized it? UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE UTILIZE Does it hurt yet?
      • by Dogtanian (588974) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:28AM (#22360030) Homepage

        Read George Orwell's essay on this topic.
        Going by his dislike of overused, cliched phrases expressed in that essay, today's "businessspeak" (mindless repetition of words and phrases that have long since been driven into the ground by thoughtless, banal, stupid repetition) would have him spinning in his grave so much that we could use him as a form of renewable energy.

        The solution is obvious. We need to think outside the box and raise the bar when it comes to language... someone needs to step up to the plate and bring something new to the table. I'm thinking of someone I have synergy with, not just the type that goes for the low-hanging fruit.

        Ooh.... he's spinning nicely. Another couple of Orwells and we'll have enough electricity to power the world :)
          • by CustomDesigned (250089) on Saturday February 09 2008, @02:08PM (#22361900) Homepage Journal
            Since the Romans invaded Britain, English speakers have used latinate phrasing to appear scholarly. Anglo Saxon words were short and pithy, like "home", "pig", "horse", "cat". But scholars learn latin, so it's "domicile", "porcine", "equine", "feline". In modern English, the choice gives you a palette of moods - like colors on a web page.
  • by Marc Rochkind (775756) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:34AM (#22359702) Homepage
    If they're in a computer room, then such a scheme might work. But, if they're on user's desks, you don't really have control. They're subject to filling up, being shut off, being knocked about, crashing, etc. I don't think in this case you would really get the reliability that the diversity and independence would suggest.

    --Marc
  • by SiegeTank (582725) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:38AM (#22359716)
    ...just in case your connection fails.
  • Is this a company, college, or just a random collection of boxes in your mom's basement? What function does your organization want to do that it can't because of a lack of a few terabytes? What does the actual owner of these boxes have to say about your little enterprise?
  • by line-bundle (235965) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:42AM (#22359728) Homepage Journal
    You could try to use something like "Localhost Azureus" for distributed data storage. The only problem will be that it will cost you in terms of processor and network hogging.

    Is it cost effective to reclaim that (small) space? Probably not. My suggestion is to realize that no-one tries to save clock cycles any more and maybe this is the way disk storage is probably heading that way.
  • by eebra82 (907996) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:42AM (#22359730) Homepage
    It's a very interesting question, but from my point of view, hard drive space is so ridiculously cheap nowadays that it is utterly pointless to look for a useful application that will fill it up.

    Let's assume that the average computer has 80 GB of storage. Multiply that by 100 and you get 8 TB of space. That's what you can get into one or two computers nowadays without plunging out too much cash.

    What's more interesting is how much processing power you have as well as how fast the internet connection is.
    • by jaxom (90814) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:05AM (#22359888) Journal

      I disagree with this and face this question all the time in work. Disks are cheap, storage systems aren't. If this is for a business that requires reasonable uptime, then the only solution would be to implement a SAN using Fibre Channel or iSCSI and then take out the drives. With the right array, all of a sudden those drives become superfluous (you decide if boot from SAN is right for you), management is easier and you'll be able to get a lot of reuse out of the drives.

      Now a lot of people will start to question the cost of doing all of this and it isn't cheap, however you have to analyze the data correctly. We migrated 200 servers from DAS to a SAN and had our money back within 12 months. Add on top of that the implementation of VMs, all of a sudden those 200 went to 20. That's a big difference in cost of ownership.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            You're talking about different things: for example, I have just put together a NAS device using SATA disks that offers out volumes as iSCSI targets over GigE.

            SATA is a drive interface spec. NAS is a generic description of a type of storage device. iSCSI is a communication protocol, as is GigE.

            It's being used as storage for an Oracle database server used by around a hundred simultaneous users.

            By buying commodity parts from Fry's I managed to get 3T usable for under $2000.

            Oh, and I had fun building it.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The solution is obvious -- the company should have just one or two 80 gig hard drives that employees connect to via Unix terminals.
    • by LWATCDR (28044) on Saturday February 09 2008, @12:01PM (#22360896) Homepage Journal
      Yep a better question is Why do all these PCs have harddrives?
      If they are really only using it for the OS, a few applications, and a few docs why not use diskless workstations?
      Less power, heat, and fewer things to break.
      In other words don't use all those drives, get ride of all of them.
  • GlusterFS (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:43AM (#22359740)
    Check out GlusterFS. (http://www.gluster.org)

    You definitely can't run Windows in order to utilize this, but it should be a minimal effort to setup a quick netboot lab to test it with.

    Cheers.
  • by kipin (981566) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:44AM (#22359750) Homepage
    I had a drive fail on me last year and I wanted to take my frustration out on it so naturally I did what any good American would do. I shot the shit out of it. Surprisingly it seemed to make for a pretty good piece of bullet proof armor. It stopped multiple rounds of full metal jacket 9mm rounds and managed to get a couple rounds lodged inside the casing. (None appeared to penetrate fully)
    • by eagl (86459) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:38AM (#22360124) Journal
      The drive survived because the 9mm is weak. Get a better gun using a better round, like .40 cal or even a good old .45.

      I've had a chance to read after-action reports from Iraq and Afghanistan, and the 9mm is pretty much a joke. Most of the forces that really rely on hangun stopping power have obtained emergency authorization to bypass normal procurement processes in order to get better handguns using better ammunition. To my knowledge, a modern .45 is considered one of the best alternatives.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Nahhh...

        Remember, pistol rounds are pistol rounds, and rifle rounds are rifle rounds.

        Next time he should test it with pretty much any centerfire rifle.
          • Don't forget that at those sizes, a .45 is nearly 30% larger in diameter, and has far more mass. A 9mm will normally have a 124 grain bullet with a velocity of 1150 ft/s, 364 foot-pounds of energy. A .45 can be shooting 230 grain rounds at 900ft/s for 414 ft-lbs of energy.

            Despite all this, I think that when it comes down to the army, it's mostly because of ammunition selection. Troops are issued non-expanding FMJ ammunition, which leads to 9mm over penetrating and under performing. The 1911, chambered i
      • Well, I know that .45 ball ammo won't penetrate a maxtor 40 GB drive casing- just makes a nice big dent with a nicely mushroomed round. Fired the round myself. Try it out. we had a guy with a .44 magnum and his shot punched clean through the spindle. We had a tachometer at the range that day, and the .45 was doing about 900fps. No holes in the drive though.

        Now, that doesn't mean that a .45 doesn't have more stopping power than 9mm, just that it wouldn't penetrate the aluminum casing of a hard drive. Fortu

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              Detailed knowledge of any technological artifact will make you better at using it, maintaining it, knowing when to use it, whether it's an automobile or an AK-47. Yes, some people find guns interesting to a greater degree than others (I don't, personally, nor do I own one) but whatever floats one's boat. Let me ask: do you find someone that has an advanced knowledge of computers creepy? Probably not, if you're on Slashdot ... but there are many that do, until they need him.

              When the time comes that I need
  • Sanmelody (Score:4, Informative)

    by theoverlay (1208084) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:45AM (#22359758)
    Datacore offers software called Sanmelody to turner servers into a cheap storage network and there are other vendor solutions as well. http://infiniteadmin.com/ [infiniteadmin.com]
  • AFS (Score:5, Informative)

    by arabagast (462679) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:48AM (#22359780) Homepage
    OpenAFS [openafs.org] is a distributed file system. It seems to fit your bill. No personal experience, so don't know how well it actually works.
  • Solution for Linux (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There's project dedicated to this on Linux, http://nbd.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net].

    If there's nothing similar for windows, you might be able to run it through cygwin.

    Actually, this claims to run on Windows: http://www.vanheusden.com/Loose/nbdsrvr/ [vanheusden.com]
  • I've been thinking of the same thing of late. Our IT department uses this huge SAN at $$$ money. Why couldn't a distributed fault tolerant (with something like striped with parity) be implemented across a LAN with 100Mb/GigE? The standard drive size being shipped on new PC's is at a minimum about 200GB. For biz users that is WAY overkill.

    Our whole organization is about a 1000 Windoze desktops, but I'd like to try it in our local workgroup first (maybe 20 systems). I looked around but couldn't find anything
  • dCache (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rev Saxon (666154) on Saturday February 09 2008, @09:56AM (#22359830) Homepage
    http://www.dcache.org/ [dcache.org] You will need a system to act as a master, but otherwise your normal nodes should work great.
  • by pedantic bore (740196) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:03AM (#22359882)

    You might want to ask yourself why, after more than a decade of research and countless papers and prototypes that address this problem, your PCs storage are still underutilized...

    It's harder than it looks to get something reliable. Your PCs have extra capacity because it's cheap, but mining that capacity is not cheap. As other posters have pointed out, putting together (or just purchasing) a server with a few TB of storage is simpler and cheaper, less prone to getting wiped out by a virus, easier to manage and backup.

  • Birth of the Matrix? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TropicalCoder (898500) on Saturday February 09 2008, @10:41AM (#22360146) Homepage Journal

    What would be a productive use for these terabytes of wasted space?

    Well, I had this idea when I read about some Open Source software that allowed distributed storage (sorry, forgot what that was, but by now I am sure it has already been mentioned in this discussion). The idea was this - suppose we have such software for unlimited distributed storage, so that people can download it and volunteer some unused space on their HD for a storage pool. Then suppose we have some software for distributed computing like we have for the SETI program. Now we have ziggabytes of storage and googleplexflops of processing power, what can we do with that? How about, for one thing, storing the entire internet (using compression, of course) on that endless distributed storage, and then running a decentralized, independent internet via P2P software? The distributed database could be constantly updated from the original sources, and the distributed storage then becomes in effect a giant cache that contains the entire internet. Now we could employ the distributed computing software to datamine that cache and we could have searching independent of Google or Yahoo or M$FT. Beyond that we could develop some AI that uses all that computing power and all that data to do... what? - I'm not sure yet. Just thought I would throw this out there to perhaps maybe get stepped on, or who knows, inspire further thought.

  • by IanDanforth (753892) on Saturday February 09 2008, @04:04PM (#22362854)
    Having tried this in college, I can tell you a couple things.

    1. You will noticeably reduce the lifespan of the discs. (Which can anger cost conscious supervisors)

    2. Doing ongoing hardware maintenance, because of this reduced lifespan, on closed, used by others, boxes is a *serious* pain.

    Storage setups make hot swapping discs easy, trying to do this with full blown systems just gets tiresome. The solution I eventually came up with was the following.

    Implement a two tiered hardware replacement cycle where you reduce the time a user is allowed to keep any hard drive in their box before replacement. Then using the still reasonably good drives, create a centralized storage solution in which the drives can live out the rest of their useful spans. Data security, user happiness, and redundancy are all good selling points of this system. You still have to deal with monkeying around in user boxes but if it's on a schedule and it nets you more drives, it's not so bad.

    -Ian
  • Allmydata "Tahoe" (Score:3, Informative)

    by n6mod (17734) on Sunday February 10 2008, @05:50PM (#22373820) Homepage
    I do some work for Allmydata, which an online storage provider. Their next-gen storage technology is open source and nearly perfect for this application. It's a bit green at this point, but coming along nicely. http://www.allmydata.org/ [allmydata.org]
    • Acutally, this sounds nothing like that thing you link to.
      More like your post being a slashvertisement.