Have Mathematics Exams Become Easier?

Coryoth writes "The BBC is reporting on a recent study in the UK that found that the difficulty of high school level math exams has declined. The study looked at mathematics from 1951 through to the present and found that, after remaining roughly constant through the 1970s and 1980s, the difficulty of high school math exams dropped precipitously starting in the early 1990s. A comparison of exams is provided in the appendix of the study. Are other countries, such as the US, noticing a similar decline in mathematics standards?" Readers with kids in school right now may have the best perspective on changes in both teaching and testing methods -- what have you noticed?

Pay teachers more

[kramulous (977841)]

Clearly this is happening ... in the western world anyway. It's the only way that schools can keep up with the shear numbers of parent classified geniuses.

We've noticed this 'dumbing down' (thanks Idiocracy) for a while now at Uni. The newer mathematics students enrolling in first year are lacking some of the basic skills. Example: a couple of years ago, trigonometric functions and identities were completely removed from the high school syllabus. It goes back all the way to year one at school.

I don't think teachers are being paid enough and they are certainly not valued enough by the community. Once upon a time, the best and brightest minds went into the teaching profession; it had respect and was highly valued. Now, it's whoever wants to become one, winner by default. The best and brightest need to be attracted back. Why would somebody who has the ability to earn more than four times the national average wage go into a job that earns less than the average wage?

Re:Pay teachers more

[NewbieProgrammerMan (558327)]

Why would somebody who has the ability to earn more than four times the national average wage go into a job that earns less than the average wage?

Yep, that's damn sure one of the big reasons I'm not interested in being a teacher once I finish my graduate degree. If I wanted to deal with children telling me what to do and get paid peanuts for it I'd go back to software development. ;)

Re:Pay teachers more

[Itninja (937614)]

Teaching the masses in free public schools has never historically been a profession ones chooses if they want to do well financially. And it's not just teachers either. I work in the education sector as a IT engineer and get paid significantly less than I could get in the private sector doing the same job. I took this job, not for the money, but because I wanted to contribute something to the community and still be able to make a modest living. Also (just like teachers) I get PTO on par with Europe (about 45 days off per year).

Re:Pay teachers more

[Original Replica (908688)]

Teaching the masses in free public schools has never historically been a profession ones chooses if they want to do well financially.

The caveat is that you frequently have to go to grad school to be qualified to teach, and grad school prices are rising much faster than public school salaries. Of course housing prices and food prices are also rising faster than salaries. Every career that used to be "just enough to get by" is in danger of falling out of the bottom of the middle class. When you have something like modern public school teaching, where most of the potential creativity and chance to influence young intellects has been replaced with neck deep bureaucracy and a focus on preparing for the next evaluation test, there isn't even a "contribute to the community" sliver lining any more. Public schools in America are broken.

Re:Pay teachers more

[RockModeNick (617483)]

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't like the word broken. Broken implies they aren't doing what they're intended to, but I don't think thats the case. They're generating the needed numbers of Walmart clerks and other low wage workers, which is success if preparing students for their most likely future occupations is the goal.

Re:Pay teachers more

[billcopc (196330)]

I used to think that way, I briefly experimented with teaching, early in my career. What I realized is there's no amount of wisdom that's going to un-fuck the educational system. The pay sucks, the students mostly hate you (because _they_ suck), and the whole system is not designed to improve, but merely to survive financially.

I wasn't exactly in the public sector, but it was one of the cheaper and thus more popular private vocational colleges. My already modest expectations were far beyond what this enterprise was offering, which is probably why all the grads wound up either in brainless government jobs (lucky them), or call centers.

The day we rid schools of the financial burden, is the day they will start churning out smarter grads.

General request!

[xaxa (988988)]

Could everyone put their country in the comment, if applicable? It saves people arguing back-and-forth about the same point, when both are correct for their own country and experiences, but on opposite sides of the world ;-).

Re:General request!

[hostyle (773991)]

US of A : http://failblog.org/epic-math-fail/ [failblog.org] ~

Re:General request!

[Kohath (38547)]

Could everyone put their country in the comment, if applicable? It saves people arguing back-and-forth about the same point, when both are correct for their own country and experiences, but on opposite sides of the world

Good idea. And no, we won't be doing that.

Re:Pay teachers more

[shadowkiller137 (1169097)]

instead of a dumbing down I would say that there is more of a split happening between the people in advanced courses and those in the lower level courses. those in the lower courses are not being taught as well and like you said basic concepts are being removed but those in the higher level courses I think are being taught more advanced concepts than previously at that level and age. The standardized tests however must be able to access the whole range of people taking the test so they must be made easier because if the people with the lower training in math got all 0's on the test it would not show at all what they learned, in their own basic way.

Re:Pay teachers more

[sedmonds (94908)]

I don't think teachers are being paid enough and they are certainly not valued enough by the community. Once upon a time, the best and brightest minds went into the teaching profession; it had respect and was highly valued. Now, it's whoever wants to become one, winner by default. The best and brightest need to be attracted back. Why would somebody who has the ability to earn more than four times the national average wage go into a job that earns less than the average wage?

Not only do teachers not get paid enough to attract and retain the good ones, but teachers unions and the fear of lawsuits make firing the awful ones nearly impossible.

Re:Pay teachers more

[Changa_MC (827317)]

...teachers unions and the fear of lawsuits make firing the awful ones nearly impossible.

I call B.S. on that one. In my time teaching, I saw several bad teachers let go. Problem was, there wasn't anyone better to replace them.

Re:Pay teachers more

[steveo777 (183629)]

Hell, I'd love a job where i work 8AM-2PM and roughly 180 days a year. 10 weeks off for summer and extra pay if you chose to work.

Other than the 10 weeks or so off in the summer, teachers don't really work that little. Most teachers I've known (including mine) put in around 10-12 hours per day and a good chunk on the weekends. Okay, any good teacher. Plus you have to add in all sorts of meetings and weekly side deals all over the place. Once you start doing any extra-curricular activities for your students you're pushing 60-70 hrs a week. No thanks.

Re:Pay teachers more

[kklein (900361)]

Hell, I'd love a job where i work 8AM-2PM and roughly 180 days a year. 10 weeks off for summer and extra pay if you chose to work.

God this sentiment irritates me.

You are evaluating the work teachers do based on your experiences as a student.

When class is in session, I work far more hours a week than my software development friends. Basically, I can't play when school is in session. There literally is no end to what needs to be done.

When class is not in session, I can scale back to about 40 hours a week.

I'm so sure you think that just because students aren't at the school, teachers have nothing to do (eyeroll).

Part of the reason it's hard to get good people to teach is that it's an abusive amount of work for very little pay.

I only taught at the K-12 level for 2 years before I said "screw this." I'm at the uni level now, and while the hours don't go down much, the pay goes up a lot. Also, you don't have to deal with parents!

Re:Pay teachers more

[bjorniac (836863)]

Yep, and I'd love an olympic 100m sprinter's job where you work for 10 seconds every four years.

Re:Pay teachers more

[Solandri (704621)]

I don't think teachers are being paid enough and they are certainly not valued enough by the community. Once upon a time, the best and brightest minds went into the teaching profession; it had respect and was highly valued. Now, it's whoever wants to become one, winner by default. The best and brightest need to be attracted back. Why would somebody who has the ability to earn more than four times the national average wage go into a job that earns less than the average wage?

Not only do teachers not get paid enough to attract and retain the good ones, but teachers unions and the fear of lawsuits make firing the awful ones nearly impossible.

Another consequences of the "not paid enough" line of reasoning is that if we did raise teacher pay, we'd have to fire most of the current teachers and hire new ones. The teachers unions get in trouble with this double-edged sword since ultimately their goal is to increase pay for the current crop of teachers, the ones the pay increases are supposed to filter out by attracting more capable teachers.

Back on subject...

[LinuxGeek (6139)]

9 out of 7 math students agree, standards have not been dropped!

Re:Pay teachers more

[homer_s (799572)]

...can keep up with the shear numbers of parent classified geniuses.

Clearly, your English teacher wasn't paid enough.

But other than that, the problem I see in this country is that the consumers of education have no choice. And like in any other monopoly, the provider gets away with poor quality.

Re:Pay teachers more

[Coryoth (254751)]

I don't think teachers are being paid enough and they are certainly not valued enough by the community. Once upon a time, the best and brightest minds went into the teaching profession; it had respect and was highly valued. Now, it's whoever wants to become one, winner by default.

That seems to be true for mathematics tyeachers in the UK; conveniently the BBC is also covering the rather glaring fact that the majority of people teaching mathematics aren't experts [bbc.co.uk]. That is, the majority of people teaching mathematics have degrees (if any) in unrelated subjects. Mathematics isn't the only subject that has a shortage of people actually qualified to teach; most of the sciences do apparently. Mathematics is far and away the most glaring case however (only 47% of maths teachers had a relevant degree, compared to 85% for biology, 83% for chemistry, and 72% for physics). Throw in the fact that mathematics is one of those subjects where a student can be permanently set back by just one bad teacher and you have a decent part of the problem.

Re:Pay teachers more

[NeilTheStupidHead (963719)]

I can attest to that first hand: When I started my engineering program [only 1.5 semesters to go :)], I had never heard of imaginary numbers before. Granted, I was able to grasp the concept rather readily, but even am I shocked at the inability of some of my peers to perform basic algebra. I spent most of my first semester trying to explain, repeatedly, the distributive property to one fellow (who is still enrolled, and who still fails to grasp the concept).
Part of the problem, as seen from my view, is the complete and utter dependance on calculators, especially those fancy, programmable Texas Instruments ones, that can practically do the work for you. I have one (it was considered 'required course materials') that I have used maybe a handful of times, preferring my old two-line Casio scientific calculator, particularly now that I know what the little cursive 'i' does. :)

Re:Pay teachers more

[thtrgremlin (1158085)]

I don't necessarily get the compulsory education to 18 thing. Get everyone through 8th grade, and if they don't cut it let them go. Work with the kids that want to be there: Want to be there, not necessarily those that get the highest grades. However, off set this with these same kids getting a future opportunity to go back t school when they are older, you know, like after they have learned their lesson that maybe they should have paid better attention in school. Give these misfits an opportunity to do things their way and possibly fall on their ass and learn their lessons. When they want to get their act together, have good opportunities in doing so. The system isn't designed for everybody. Alternatively, kids that aren't so hot in academic courses, let them go to a trade school. Sanitation is a whole lot more recession proof than IT, not to mention there are really great opportunities in those industries for the extremely bright. Construction, demolitions, customer service, automotive repair, and many other fields don't require quite so much general education. IMHO, I think a forcing every student to learn things that are not going to directly influence their economic value in the work force is a major contribution to political and academic apathy. Enough students do not see the value in what they are learning. That doesn't mean the information would be any less valuable IF they learned it, but what is the risk in letting people learn what they want. For those that don't want to learn, save the money to give those same people an opportunity to use it when they get things straight in their head, versus spending it all now when they don't want it. I think all people would benefit, would take greater pride in their education, as well as their chosen career.

I would really like to know what others think. Btw, I am in the US (as one poster asked people to add)

we don't want to upset them

[spir0 (319821)]

we don't want to upset the poor children or make their lives too difficult. their parents might sue.

First post!

[Harmonious Botch (921977)]

They had to lower the standards because the kids today can't handle simple math.

Re:First post!

[NewbieProgrammerMan (558327)]

They had to lower the standards because the kids today can't handle simple math.

Does that include concepts like, "what 'first' means?"

Re:First post!

[Sponge Bath (413667)]

Don't bruise his self esteem you brute.
Here on /. in the 21st century, every post is first post.

Re:First post!

[by Anonymous Coward]

You're modded Funny, but that's worryingly accurate. Today's kids like being told they're number one, and if they get dragged down for poor marks, they'll just complain to their parents, who'll complain to the schools, who'll start making cutbacks for other similar children until everyone is told they're outstanding when they clearly are not. I can't talk, though - that sentence was huge. Sigh.

Re:First post!

[bit01 (644603)]

Studies have found that children are more likely to do better in school if they believe that they're...well, better.

Er, no, that was a popular idea in the 60's but recent science [google.com.au] has shown that as students grow up with false praise (to make them think they are better) eventually (early/pre-teens) they realize they're being lied to with counterproductive results including low self esteem and social problems. In the long term it's best to be perfectly honest; by all means praise specific accomplishments at but don't pretend they're doing well when they're not.

---

Stop using tab characters in your code!

Finally

[Zelos (1050172)]

I'm glad somebody finally pointed this out in black and white. I remember lining up A-level (UK age 18 exams) maths papers from the 80s and 90s, you could see the questions get easier almost year-by-year.

Yet every year the exam results get better and the government congratulates itself on improving standards while denying the exams are getting easier.

Re:Finally

[eln (21727)]

Tell me about it. It's pathetic how easy math exams are these days. I mean, I really struggled in math in the second grade, and I was lucky to get average grades. Imagine my surprise when I decided to take my son's 2nd grade math test, and I got an almost perfect score! It was so easy! Clearly these kids are being spoiled by lower expectations.

education policymakers need to look good

[amrik98 (1214484)]

There is strong pressure on the education system to "improve"; and these improvements are measured by tests. Students are generally not going to get smarter, so why not make the tests easier to make it seem like you are doing your job?

Re:education policymakers need to look good

[Swizec (978239)]

In Slovenia I'm noticing quite a different trend and it also seems to be making the policymakers look good ... or something. My sister is 8 years younger than me and is now in primary school - she's learning stuff I only learned in high school. She was being taught things like fractions in third grade, I didn't even know what the hell fractions were back then.

But maybe we're just being weird here.

tools

[bsDaemon (87307)]

back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s kids got a slide rule, protractor, compass, and graphing pad. Now it's ti-83+ for algebra class and the ti-89 has more computing power than the original Macintosh.

doing the math is going to be easier, even if they didn't ask harder questions. However, the amount of automation these days means that most people aren't ever going to have to do the harder math in their daily lives.

Slashdotters are an anomaly because our careers and interests require us to do maths all the time. If the future historians are allowed to slack off on their trig tests, so what? They weren't going to be engineers anyway.

They probably should track out classes more than just "regular" and "honors/AP" though. That way the future nobel prize winning poet who is an over acheiver and the future NASA scientist don't have to compete for the teacher's attention to detail in Calculus.

Just a suggestion.

Re:tools

[KefabiMe (730997)]

Calculators on tests have made tests easier, but this is a good thing. Can you imagine having to figure out sines and cosines by hand anymore? What calculators do is make it easier to get to more advanced topics. Knowing how to add 1234+2345 in my head is just no longer a necessary skill. I rather students practice the properties of math, and write things out on paper anyway. (#1 problem with algebra and calculus students, they try to do too much math in their head) Calculators are not going away any time soon, and anything that encourages the entire population to do more math is a good thing in my book.

Secondly, while historians may not need to know trig, it is imperative that as a nation we raise our mathematical abilities. Great math and science students generally did not learn everything at school. Having a parent that can help out with some algebra homework (or even better understands the value of math) will make it much MUCH more likely that the child will grow up with an appreciation of mathematics. If we as a human race want to push the maths and sciences as far as we can, then we much raise the math and science ability of the entire population.

Just so everyone knows where my loyalties lie, I am a mathematics major, I am a math tutor, and hopefully eventually you'll see me teaching mathematics at a University near you!

Re:tools

[digitrev (989335)]

Actually, if it's a set of angles, you can do some cosines and sines by hand.

Take an equilateral triangle of side length 2. Cut in half, so you have hypotenuse length 2, base length 1, and vertical length sqrt(3). Now you can find the cosines and sines of both 30 and 60 degrees (or pi/6 and pi/3 radians, respectively).

Now take a right angle triangle with base and vertical length 1, and hypotenuse length sqrt(2). Now you can find the sine and cosine of 45 degrees (pi/4).

So with a few simple skills: basic geometry, SOHCAHTOA, Pythagoras's theorem, you can find the sine and cosine of 3 different angles. Now learn your CAST rule (where the different trig functions are positive based on the quadrant) and you can do it for up to 12 different angles. Then learn your double angle formulas and you've got another 4 angles. Then learn the period of trig functions and you can now find it for any of those 16 angles plus the period of the function. Anything other than that, and yes, you'll need a calculator, but knowing those rules (which can be taught progressively throughout high school) and you'll find doing certain things much easier. Now, granted, trig isn't for everyone. However, it's not unreasonable to expect people to do certain calculations sans calculator. Like multiplication, addition, and division.

Re:tools

[Coryoth (254751)]

Slashdotters are an anomaly because our careers and interests require us to do maths all the time. If the future historians are allowed to slack off on their trig tests, so what? They weren't going to be engineers anyway.

It's interesting you say that, because the actual report was noting the economic impact of the lower numbers of students actually going on to complete higher level mathematics (in part, they claim, due to poor preparation based on lower standards). Apparently there is actually quite a demand for the skills that mathematics education can impart; high enough demand that employers in the UK are noting the lack of suitably qualified candidates (apparently financial insitutions in the UK are looking to France these days, since they produce more and better mathematicians).

Sure, not everyone is going to go on in mathematics; some will be poets, some will be historians, and so on. It is also true, however, that most people don't have their future that well written by the age of 16, and having a solid enough background in a variety of subjects, including mathematics, literature, and history, to be able to keep future options open to exploration is important.

doing the math is going to be easier, even if they didn't ask harder questions. However, the amount of automation these days means that most people aren't ever going to have to do the harder math in their daily lives.

No, doing the mathematics is not going to be easier; sure the computational grind is easier, but mathematics is not arithmetic. Constructing rigorous logical chains of argument, and symbolic manipulation within formally defined systems; understanding how abstraction can be used effectively, and how it can be taken too far; and being able to think coherently and correctly about abstract entities -- these don't magically become trivial given a calculator. Personally I think part of the problem is that we've lost sight of what mathematics is, and what mathematics is not [stuff.gen.nz]. Modern mathematics courses are simplifying away what matters in favour of shallow coverage of surface material.

Good Timing

[JamesRose (1062530)]

So I have my A level maths exam (core 3) in two days, taking it a year early, and I'm still finding it trivial, and thats because I'm working from '90s papers and they're so much harder. So basically yes, the exam I am taking has gotten easier over the past years. It's not that the questions are easier though, it's because year by year subjects get dropped so you can focus so much more time on one subject so you can quite easily perfect your understangin of it.

Blame? Look at the No Child Left Behind Act

[rjshirts (567179)]

I'm a licensed teacher - Social Studies, not Math - and I've seen many district personnel changing how tests are delivered or graded, simply to make sure that the school is meeting the NCLB standards. As a Social Studies department, we were asked to make certain questions easier to understand, or to eliminate hard to study areas all together in order to make sure that the results would be up to where they need to be. Math teachers in my district have complained a LOT that the district is forcing them to dumb down the tests simply to make sure that scores are where they need to be.
Kids aren't dumber, they just aren't given the opportunity to fail. If they aren't given the chance to make mistakes, they don't learn from them, and unfortunately, that is where the NCLB is leading us.

For the non-united-statesians...

[dghcasp (459766)]

For people not in the U.S., NCLB is the controversial No Child Left Behind [wikipedia.org] act.

As I understand it (I once dated a teacher,) the history of NCLB is basically:

• Congresscritter 1: We should improve education.
• Congresscritter 2: How about we tie test scores to school funding?
• Rational Person: Wouldn't that just inspire schools to change the tests in order to improve the scores and maximize funding? That's far easier than improving the quality of education, yet it has the same rewards under NCLB.
• Congresscritters: Shut up! We've got pork in this bill now!

Students are dumber

[dostert (761476)]

I'm a math professor and I must say, just in the past 10 years, I've noticed the "average" undergrad is A LOT worse at basic math than they used to be. I don't know which was cause and which was effect, but students are worse at math and we're teaching them less up through high school. This needs to change very soon or we're going to be a nation of mathematical idiots in another few decades. It has already started... just look at the percentage of American math PhDs coming out each year.

I agree with everyone else, we need to pay math teachers more. In states like TX a public school teacher makes barely enough to live poorly, and with a math degree, they can make double working in private industry. It is a very hard sell to convince mathematicians to go into education.

The other thing we need to do is not be afraid to actually fail someone. This society has made it so that everyone feels its their "right" to graduate high school and go to college. We need to change this and actually fail people when they can't do the work. If someone doesn't earn a degree, they shouldn't be "awarded" one.

Mensa and testing...

[jddj (1085169)]

Mensa won't take SATs from later than 1/31/94 as an indication of your IQ. That says something about changing test difficulty...

Re:Mensa and testing...

[Smurf (7981)]

Mensa won't take SATs from later than 1/31/94 as an indication of your IQ. That says something about changing test difficulty...

It sure does.

On the other hand, they should be smart enough to know that the SAT was never meant to measure your IQ. In fact, they should be smart enough to know that IQ tests themselves only measure certain abilities, and are not really a good measure of intelligence.

I normally score around 135 in IQ tests (of course it depends on things like time of the day, quality of sleep on the previous night, BAL, etc), and in my opinion IQ tests and Mensa-like organizations are only good to inflate egos, as they have little relevance to real life.

By the way, did you know that "mensa" means "fool", "stupid", or "jerk" in Spanish? [wordreference.com] How fitting...

Easier or more straight forward?

[IP_Troll (1097511)]

Looking at the example questions, the earlier questions look difficult, but unnecessarily so. What I mean by that is, they take what could be a straight forward question and then obfuscate it behind a bunch of random noise merely to confuse the test taker.

The newer example questions seemed more rationalized, they test whether you know the theory or formula needed to solve the question without throwing you a curve ball.

Would you rather encourage people to continue studying onto more advanced levels with easier tests, or throw them a GOTCHA question which will totally turn them off to the subject matter?

There is a difference between testing knowledge of the subject matter, and giving the test taker a hard time. A "difficult" question might be great to ponder when you have unlimited time, but in a time pressured test, it is not appropriate.

Maths has changed / evolved...

[Manip (656104)]

I'm sorry but what do we really expect to learn from this research?

Maths in the 1950s was designed for engineers and scientists in that generation. They learned what they needed.

Maths today is exactly the same. The fact is you can't use 1950s standards to evaluate today's exams any more than you can use today's standards to evaluate 1950s exams.

The only real question is - Are engineers and scientists finding their maths education weak?

The answer in my view is no in most cases. In a limited number of careers the maths they received isn't nearly advanced enough but that would have been the case in the 1950s too.

As I said they're using the wrong measuring stick to measure the difficulty of exams. Nobody needs to know half of the useless junk that kids learned in the 1950s when frankly it is less time consuming and more accurate to use a calculator.

That's just my opinion. I honestly think a lot of this kind of "research" is a result of much older people looking at today's maths and thinking "Why aren't they learning what I did?" While completely ignoring what they're learning that the 1950s students didn't.

Re:Maths has changed / evolved...

[grgyle (538200)]

"...The only real question is - Are engineers and scientists finding their maths education weak?..."

Absolutely. An engineer in the 40s/50s would need to have in-depth critical skills of geometrical proofs and relationships, nasty algebraic manipulations, and "bag of tricks" mathematics like series approximations, dummy variable substitutions, etc, because computing resources were rare and resource intensive. If you look at the older tests linked in the OP, you can really see a reflection of that need.

As an engineer today however, I have zero need for knowing trig simplification identities, calculus proofs, and the like beyond a high conceptual level, but I have far more need and usage of logical and discrete math fields, programming concepts, vector operations, statistical methods, and other "math" topics that are still completely absent from any high-school math curricula that I've seen.

My wife (a math degree and former teacher) suggested throwing out the "calculus path" of mathematics entirely and retool math education to a "discrete math path". It sounded heretical to me initially, but I've come to believe that she's correct.

Re:Maths has changed / evolved...

[pongo000 (97357)]

As an engineer today however, I have zero need for knowing trig simplification identities, calculus proofs, and the like beyond a high conceptual level, but I have far more need and usage of logical and discrete math fields, programming concepts, vector operations, statistical methods, and other "math" topics that are still completely absent from any high-school math curricula that I've seen.

And I'm afraid that you are, indeed, a victim. You see, the reason why you learn geometric proofs and calculus proofs is to assist with developing problem-solving skills that require an individual to reason a problem from start to finish, much like real life. It scares me that you claim, as an engineer, that all you need to know are the rote mechanics of math (and yes, that is what you describe: number crunching as opposed to critical problem analysis).

Unfortunately, at least in the US, proofs of any type are becoming rare to non-existent in many curricula. I see the direct result of this every day I'm in school and a student stares at me with a blank look on his/her face when I ask him/her to analyze and determine the best course of action for solving for some quantity X given Y and Z.

You didn't mention what type of engineer you are. Computer/software/hardware, perhaps? Then yes, I'd agree that programming logic, vector operations, and the like are probably a valuable intellectual commodity. But I know many engineers who work day in and day out designing things, and this takes more than a simplistic knowledge of how to perform statistical computations.

Its called "How to cheat mandates"

[Shivetya (243324)]

Look, you can read about it anywhere. We even had math classes in some cities where success was built around "best attempt" or other such non-sense.

What it all boils down to is that no matter what standard the Federal Government tries to set someone tries to cheat it. That is why there is always such an uproar versus standardized tests. Down here in Georgia they failed nearly 40% of all students in tested grades versus a standardized test. They knew it was coming. They even had practice tests. Is it all the schools fault?

No. Students seem have this sense of inevitability. They are still of the belief that they don't have to. After all anything else they complain about in school gets changed. I don't see their attitudes as defeatism, its entitlement that they suffer. They don't have to do this, that, or what not. We don't have the right culture in schools, especially city schools among minority students. Until we change the fabric of society the MTV generations will forever think themselves above "working hard". They are all going to be rap starts, professional sports players, or worse win the lottery!

We gave up control of our schools to "feel gooders". Now its all about grief counselors and no winners allowed because no one should be a loser. When we removed the reward of success what did we expect? I have seen articles where every student got to walk the diploma line regardless if they graduated just so they didn't feel ostracized. Well tough shit. Your boss ain't going to worry about making a failure to feel good. If you don't perform your in for a world of hurt. I guess you could go into government work, of all categories in the job market they have added more jobs than anyone and everyone knows the saying about how its near impossible to lose a government job.

Schools and students are simply trying to cheat the system. The problem is the schools encourage it because they don't allow for losers. They don't want to hurt little Bobby's feelings so they set him up to fail in life. If they want control of our kids then they should be responsible for them. They get hell bent if someone raises a finger about the Bible in school or complains about sex education yet they are completely aloof when it comes to holding the kids to a standard of education.

Private school was the only recourse I found. Standards had to be met or we might not be allowed to come back. Students were encouraged to be better. I don't see that outside of a few select public schools; you know I hear it all the time how so and so's public school isn't like those others but sorry it is.

Yes, yes, yes and partly no.

[hyfe (641811)]

First off, I teach maths/IT to 16 to 19 year olds in Norway.

Maths has definitivly become a lot easier here. It takes a lot less work to get good grades now, and there's an alarming lack of focus on basic math skills. There's plenty of A-students who can't do basic math. The norwegian school-system is really fucked up though. There's so much focus on getting the trouble-makers through school, so they're allowed to basically take over classes. I mean, we don't want to send them to special schools, because that would stigmatize them! Never mind the 25 other students in the class, they'll just have to sit there and feel neglected.. Not to mention, without consequences these students never learn. I've had students yell at me straight off at 08:15 in the morning because the last test had some questions which weren't exactly as the ones in the book. They're so mal-adjusted and unfit for real life it's scary.. (ohh.. and just for kicks.. 90% of the worst students are pakestani.. while they make up about 3-4% of Oslo in total..trying to teach them anything is basically a crash-course in becoming a racist)

That said, I work with a couple of really old math teachers, and there's a few subjects like probabilites that are completely new them.. so math has changed. Don't be fooled though, they've replaced all the hard'n'gritty stuff with fluffy feel-nice stuff.

In Norway, we've had two big reforms in the last ten years, and both made the hardest paths easier. Ironically, they also both made the maths for students taking vocational education harder. It's so tragic I want to cry :(.

Then/Now

[Quiet_Desperation (858215)]

Then: Sally is twice as old as Suzy. Three years from now, the sum of their ages will be 42. How old is Sally?

Now: Chloe has 7 apples. How many apples does Chloe have?

Tomorrow: Write the number 5.

USA Math 1950 - 2008

[by Anonymous Coward]

Examples of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950s.

1. Teaching Math In 1950:

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

2. Teaching Math In 1960:

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970:

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
is $80. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980:

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is
$80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990:

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a
profit of $20.

What do you think of this way of making a living?

Topic for class participation after answering the question:
How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes?
(There are no wrong answers.)

6. Teaching Math In 2008:
Un maderero vende un camión de madera de construcción para $100. Su
coste de producción es $80. Cuántos de su familia pueden usted alimentar
desde los $20 beneficios?

More From Ontario, Canada

[Cassini2 (956052)]

When I went through the Ontario system (1986), the requirement for engineering was 3 high schoool math courses in: Calculus, Algebra, and "Functions and Relations".

I did some Calculus T.A. work, and the new students are missing certain critical concepts. The new curriculum has eliminated Integration from High School Calculus. It is actually lucky that the students get any Calculus in High School at all. One of the original proposals for the new curriculum recommended eliminating Calculus entirely. The Engineering schools fought hard to keep Calculus in High School.

Some of the first year engineering students have not seen key trignometric functions like the sine function. Other students have not seen Sigma notation, which is used for for finite and infinite series. Almost all of the students struggle with the university Algebra course, which makes me suspect the high school introduction to vectors and matrix algebra was been watered down.

Reducing the high school requirement from three to two high school math courses hurts the undergraduate engineering students. Further, a subject like Calculus benefits from repeat exposures over a number of years. The students would benefit from an introductory Calculus course in Grade 11, a deeper course in Grade 12, and then the 4 more courses in first and second year university. That way, the students have had 4 years Calculus experience before they need to apply the hard stuff in 3rd and 4th year engineering. As it is, students might only see Calculus for 2 years at university, and I'm not sure if this is enough time to really absorb the subject.

As for the quality of the students themselves, the students from the new curriculum are different. They are very fast (faster than me) at solving problems with known forms. On structured problems, similar to ones they have seen before, they are very fast. Unfortunately, they are very poor at solving unstructured problems, and problems where they have not seen the solution technique in advance. It is like someone has beaten the creativity out of the students. They can write tests really well, but they can't do original math. I imagine the students will pick up the creativity as they gain experience. It is just that someone has removed the fun advanced questions that really get the students thinking from the curriculum. The high schools are somehow creating students that can do simple stuff, but lack deeper insights into what they are doing. The students haven't been allowed to try, fail, and sometimes succeed at solving the harder mathemetical questions.