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Are Academic Journals Obsolete?

Posted by timothy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 04:43 PM
from the all-the-cool-kids dept.
Writing "Surely there is a better way," eggy78 asks "With the ability to get information anywhere in the world in seconds, and the virtually immediate obsolescence of any printed work, why are journals such an important part of academic research? Many of these journals take two or more years to print an article after it has been submitted, and the information is very difficult (or expensive) to obtain. Does this hinder technological advancement? There are certainly other venues for peer review, so why journals? What do they offer our society? Are they just a way to evaluate the productivity of professors?"
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  • Easy question (Score:5, Informative)

    by mrbluze (1034940) on Sunday June 08 2008, @04:44PM (#23702713) Journal

    Why are journals such an important part of academic research?
    Quality control.
    • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mrbluze (1034940) on Sunday June 08 2008, @04:46PM (#23702733) Journal
      Quality control and that journals are recognizable and until now, financially viable.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:05PM (#23702839)
        There is a difference between data and information. Data is what the electronic era makes available in seconds. Information takes time: you have to read more than a paragraph to really understand a complex issue. That is not to say that jounals can't be on line [slashdot.org], but the process of analyzing data and turning it into information as academic journals do is long, difficult, and certainly not obsolete.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Aww, are you butt hurt that your brilliant crank works [blogspot.com] have been rejected time and time again? Surprise surprise.
        • by the_ed_dawg (596318) on Monday June 09 2008, @12:37AM (#23705619) Journal

          Peer review is an incestuous process that works for a while but eventually engenders ridiculously hideous monsters.
          I don't know about you, but most of my articles were double-blind. I didn't know who my reviewers were, and they didn't know who I was.
            • by terrapin44 (736939) on Monday June 09 2008, @09:54AM (#23709463)
              I can tell you as an author and a reviewer, that in many fields double-blind doesn't mean much in reality. If you are one of only a few people studying a certain topic, it can be pretty obvious who is the author. Personally, I think Peer Review of journals is a good idea, although there are numerous examples of idiocy, forged data, plagiarism that has been published, and great works that have been rejected. What I do find troubling with some traditional journals is the time from submission to print. I had a article take 2 years to get published that was technology-related. By the time it was published, it was obsolete and not worth reading. Still counted for the tenure track though (although not as much as it would have been since with it being outdated, it wasn't cited much). Traditional journals need to come up with quicker turn around times (especially in the sciences and social sciences) or they will be overtaken by journals that do provide a faster review process.
          • by Ichoran (106539) on Sunday June 08 2008, @10:32PM (#23704841)
            It is elitism, but not financial elitism. It is intellectual elitism, mixed with a dose of what's trendy.

            The journals do a good job, for the most part, at keeping out well-paying stupidity. If your article is genuinely bad, you'll have a hard time getting it published anywhere high-profile. Really--you can come in with as much money as you want, and you still won't be considered relevant. If you disagree, please provide at least two examples.

            If your article is relatively bad (but on an absolute level at least decent), then it can still get published if you're well-known, if you're working in a hot area, and if you submit to a high profile journal that cares about such things (e.g. Science or Nature). This is unfortunate, but this is an aspect of human nature that is really hard to keep under control.

            There are certainly parts of the peer review process that are less than ideal--reviewers don't take the time to understand what they're reviewing, or they have an emotional reaction to something that seems to undercut their fond hopes for how something will turn out and make stupid, picky attacks on a paper, or they realize that they're about to get scooped and so ask for every pedantic little thing so they gain more time for their own work. But even with these flaws, the process does a pretty good job at rejecting junk; it just rejects a little too much non-junk, too, or at least makes the process more painful than necessary.

            Still, for humanity to reliably accumulate knowledge, we need a mechanism that rejects almost all obvious junk, and the scientific journals are the ones who are still doing a pretty good job of that.

            Some of the secondary uses--e.g. evaluating whether an assistant professor should get tenure--are overblown, but you can't blame the journals for that. That's not why they exist (although it does encourage people to use them more); they exist to provide a peer review mechanism (for profit). If another *good* peer review mechanism appears, it could supplant journals, but none have yet.
                  • by hey! (33014) on Monday June 09 2008, @06:44AM (#23707467) Homepage Journal
                    That doesn't make him wrong. Viewed as a parlor game, of course he lost, because he made the tactical mistake of setting the goalposts too close. However, I don't think its reasonable to conclude that academic journals play a useful role if and only if there are fewer than two cases of monetary interests trumping academic ones. Why two? Why not one, or ten?

                    The problem is that if this is a game, the game is broken.

                    It should work like this: A proposes an instance where monetary interests did NOT trump academic instances. B then proposes an instance where monetary instances DID trump academic ones. This process repeats in rounds until one or the other runs out of instances. The player at the end of the game who has instances remaining wins. Naturally, this is a very crude game, but not so crude as the "name two" version.
                  • by Christian Anarchist (1065384) on Monday June 09 2008, @09:15AM (#23708703)

                    Printing may have been cheap for centuries but distribution is another matter. Information on the web is indexed by search engines and accessible to anyone with an uncensored net connection, ie, most of us. This is one rather large change.


                    The internet has made the transmission and distribution of information cheap. I would go so far as to say nearly free.

                    However, there remains one very large barrier to the use of that information: the recipient still bears the burden of evaluating and interpreting it. Access is cheap. Assessment is still expensive. Search engines, broadband, all the amazing technology of my MacBookPro and its software haven't solved the real problem: How the heck do I decide which information matters?

                    In fact, if anything, the glut of cheap information makes it harder for effective assessment, not easier. Ever try to concentrate when fifty people are shouting at you?

                    Where does this leave the academic journal? I'm not sure, but I'm skeptical. The academic journal and, more importantly, the institutions of the larger academic system which use it as an indicator of intellectual worth, are profoundly limited. Every discipline I know has examples of what would eventually become foundational articles that get rejected over and over again by the arbiters of mainstream intellectual and scientific fashion. More seriously, thousands of valuable assistant professors have likely had their careers and ideals misshaped by the pursuit of publish-or-perish. And perhaps most importantly of all, there is the real problem of timely responsiveness. When the world and its needs are changing, and accelerating, as fast as today's, institutions of interpretation -- must move and adapt fast.

                    And quick adaptation is not something that the academic world is at all good at.

                    Yet, the marketplace of ideas does still require filters. I have a great deal of faith in markets, especially as the cheap information of the Internet age makes those markets more and more responsive to people's desires and needs. Yet the effectiveness of markets remains constrained by the limits of those very desires and needs. Deference to peer review when all of your peers are sophomores ("sophisticated morons") is not going to help very much. Ignorance shared is still ignorance.

                    In its editors and referees, the current journal system has a group of people with very high level filtering expertise. Whatever new institutions that replace the academic journal must replace that filtering expertise. Search engines, etc., can't do that. Sophomores can't do that.

                    I don't mean to deify those editors and referees. They aren't the only ones with the expertise, or even necessarily the ones with the most expertise. But its sometimes hard for people outside the system to understand how much of their time and effort those editors and referees have to allocate, to do that filtering, to to develop the skills that make their filtering expert, and to assess and evaluate their fellow filterers.

                    True "deep" peer review requires all three things, and all three things take a lot of time and expense. Time and expense that aren't significantly reduced just because the cost of information transmission has started to approach zero.
          • by Eskarel (565631) on Sunday June 08 2008, @11:21PM (#23705167)
            I think the author's issue is not so much the a problem with peer review as a concept and more to do with the particular "peer review" required to get into scientific journals, and more precisely with the specific "peers" doing the deciding.

            Structured peer review has a somewhat simple problem caused by human nature. If your idea being correct means a lot of the "peers" reviewing your paper are wrong, then it's unlikely to be favorably reviewed, regardless of its actual merit.

            For an example see string theory, no one has any real idea whether it's actually correct, and they haven't really done anything useful with it yet, but all of it's alternatives are derided as quackery. String theorists are "peers" in the review process.

    • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mactard (1223412) on Sunday June 08 2008, @04:46PM (#23702735)
      Peer review can be done online. Journals seem like a more expensive and time-consuming way of peer review that the Internet will probably supplant soon.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Peer review can be done online.
        Journals can be online. And for all we know peer review is already happening online, maybe just not in public forums.
        • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Informative)

          by Thowllly (529311) on Sunday June 08 2008, @04:58PM (#23702795)
          They are done online. At least the example a friend of mine showed me of a poor paper (It had references to obscure papers that did not in fact contain what the paper claimed) he had reviewed was.
          • by barista (587936) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:10PM (#23702899) Homepage
            Was it submitted by Ignatius J. Reilly?
          • Re:Easy question (Score:5, Interesting)

            by smallfries (601545) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:13PM (#23702931) Homepage
            One consequence of this is that plagarism is easier to detect. Even when it is not outright theft but an author trying to game the system by double publishing work it shows up quickly in search queries. I'm aware of (reviewed) two papers recently that were rejected because another reviewer spotted the previous publication of the work.

            The submitter doesn't seem to know as much about academia as he believes. What kind of scientific publication is "obsolete"? More importantly when does that change occur?

            The purpose of restricting published work to that which has passed peer review is to ensure that results do not become obsolete. They must uphold the same quality standards that we expect from all scientific disciplines - not blog-style fads that have become popular and at some stage will cease to be popular. The body of the literature should contain timeless observations that have resulted from hard study. These do not become obsolete, even if they are superceded by better methods.
        • Re:Easy question (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Rutulian (171771) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:07PM (#23702873)
          Peer review does effectively happen online. After an article is submitted to a journal and vetted by the editors, it is sent, usually electronically, to selected reviewers. Reviewers then submit their critique electronically. There isn't a lot of mailing of manuscripts. That, like you say, is fairly pointless in an electronic age. Critique in a forum doesn't happen, but that would be fairly impractical for a scientific article. Besides, there isn't any direct communication between reviewers and submitters. It is blind, and there isn't a lot of traffic in general--just the manuscript to be sent and the review to be received.

          I do think there is an important role for journals...it allows scientific themes and significant advances to be followed more easily. Somebody else (the editors) has screened a lot of submissions--looking for things like relevance to the journal, significance of data, a well-told story, etc--before it ever makes it to print, so the reader doesn't have to wade through a ton of crap to get to the interesting article he is looking for. The economics of journals will probably certainly change, but journals themselves will remain for the near future. And nothing stops a PI from publishing their findings online if it doesn't make it into a journal. It's just that fewer people are likely to see it that way.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          As someone who submits to journals and occasionally helps peer review: It is certainly being done online.

          Submission of articles for most medical journals are for the most part online. There are attestations that have to be physically signed and mailed in, but everything else is online.

          As for the actual peer review, that is also predominately online.
      • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Insightful)

        by NoobixCube (1133473) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:07PM (#23702879) Journal
        Some people don't like wading through unreviewed papers. Even though I read Slashdot, OS News, Ars Technica and a few others, I still buy a copy of Linux Format every so often. Peer review is a nice idea, and I'm not saying that a published journal is inherently better or more effective, but often peer review can totally miss something. Peer review is subject to groupthink - Slashdot is a prime example, if you look in the Firehose, or how comments are rated. Recently, there was that article on Slashdot about cold fusion. Turned out to be very under tested and probably a load of crap, but peer review saw that it was big news.
        • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Insightful)

          by pbhj (607776) on Monday June 09 2008, @06:57AM (#23707555) Homepage Journal

          Recently, there was that article on Slashdot about cold fusion. Turned out to be very under tested and probably a load of crap, but peer review saw that it was big news.
          I'd hardly call a /. moderation on cold-fusion "peer review". Slashdot aims to find important _OR_ interesting news (not XOR incidentally), even if it's crackpot then it can still be interesting.

          Some guy claims to have made an anti-gravity machine with a cat and some buttered toast? That's still news for nerds!

        • Re:Easy question (Score:5, Informative)

          by finiteSet (834891) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:32PM (#23703055)

          Sure, and many (most?) journals do their peer review "online" ... with Word .docs as attachments. I'm sure it can be even more online with Google's word processor....
          I'm sure this varies from field to field, but academic papers are overwhelming written using LaTeX in my circle. The thought of writing a paper using Goggle's online processor makes me cringe.
          • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Informative)

            by ceifeira (1230772) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:40PM (#23703099)
            That's true mainly in computer science, mathematics, physics, etc. I see little LaTeX being used in the life and social sciences. Unfortunately, the de facto standard for those really is microsoft word documents.
            • Re:Easy question (Score:4, Informative)

              by proxima (165692) on Sunday June 08 2008, @06:03PM (#23703231)

              That's true mainly in computer science, mathematics, physics, etc. I see little LaTeX being used in the life and social sciences. Unfortunately, the de facto standard for those really is microsoft word documents.

              LaTeX is widely used in economics, probably more than word processors in general. It's easy to spot with working paper versions of papers; authors tend to leave the LaTeX default fonts and heading styles.

              I've also noticed a significant trend away from PowerPoint towards Beamer [sourceforge.net] for presentations. From what I understand, in the physics world, PowerPoint still reigns for presentations (and even poster making!).
    • The internet is a great way to share information and ideas. The flip-side is that it is also a vehicle for disinformation and trial by popular opinion. The opinions of alarmist popularist bloggers are more influential than the review by proper scientists.

      To get any serious scientific review there has to be a place for this to happen - off the internet highway.

      Perhaps what we have is good enough: true scientific journals for the scientists; Nature and Scientific American etc for the informed amateur; bloggos

      • Re:Easy question (Score:5, Informative)

        by Rutulian (171771) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:27PM (#23703027)
        Some of what you say is true, but I wouldn't be quite so cynical. A "useful or interesting work" can have a lot of different levels. Most journal articles represent a work in progress, not a complete understanding of a topic, so there are always more experiments to do. You just have to publish what you have at some point. Now some experiments are done sloppily and not caught by peer-reviewers, but not everybody is an expert in every field. I try to know what I'm talking about when I publish something, but if it's not directly in my expertise, a real expert can almost certainly find something wrong with it. But the article doesn't have to be perfect to get something out of it. Readers will be critical--that's their job after all if they're good scientists--and not necessarily agree with the conclusions of the authors, but they can usually conclude something from the data that is presented, and I consider that a helpful contribution to science.

        I also don't agree that the vast majority are reviews, at least not in experimental science. A simple search on PubMed will tell you which articles are considered reviews and which present original research. Unless you do a very general search, articles typically outnumber reviews 10 to 1.

        As in every politically driven community, there is corruption in academia. Big name scientific egos can have an undue influence over a field, but that doesn't happen very often. Most scientists are fairly collegial toward each other and respect each others work, even if they don't agree with it.

        But, you are right, publish or perish is a problem, and it leads to things like blocking of competitors publication, bad grant reviews, and fabrication of data. I have, unfortunately, seen some great scientists get driven away by some sort of bs, like an insufficient number of publications. But I've also seen a lot of great scientists succeed in the system. Unfortunately, given the current economics of research, it's not a system that is going to change easily. And academia is the only place with problems. Cutthroat environments in industry can create the same sort of problems.
  • Because... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kjella (173770) on Sunday June 08 2008, @04:49PM (#23702747) Homepage
    ...they tend to have saner content than your average crackpot with a web page. It's all about recognition, any professor can just spew out as much junk as he likes on his webpage to show how "productive" he is. Getting journals to publish something however takes work, and that usually means you've said something significant about something significant. I suppose you could have other things like "mod points" but the current system seems to work well enough for science.
    • Re:Because... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jc42 (318812) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:12PM (#23702917) Homepage Journal
      ...they tend to have saner content than your average crackpot with a web page. It's all about recognition, any professor can just spew out as much junk as he likes on his webpage to show how "productive" he is.

      Indeed. But this doesn't necessarily mean that paper journals are the long-term answer. What's more likely is that such "papers" will be submitted to appropriate professional scientific organizations, which will vet them via the usual peer-review process, and accept approved articles into the organization's web site. Such web sites will be the replacement for printed journals.

      OTOH, there might still be a role for print publications. We can see a sign of thiis in the recent revamping of the venerable Science News periodical. Their publication has traditionally arrived weekly, and contained summaries (mostly 1-4 per page) of breaking scientific news. Within the past month, they have announced a new format. They are now biweekly, and rather than reporting isolated breaking news stories, they are concentrating on "summary" articles. These articles still mention recent advances, but concentrate on tying them into their general subject matter. Their first few issues in this new format have been quite good, and Science News is still a good investment for anyone reasonably well-educated who wants to keep up with current scientific advances.

      However, their print edition might still be doomed. Such summary articles can well work online. So they might end up a purely electronic "publisher", specializing in high-quality scientific summary articles for the well educated. People might be willing to pay for membership to get rid of the (mostly irrelevant) ads. We'll see.
    • Re:Because... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hackstraw (262471) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:15PM (#23702959) Homepage
      I second the parent's opinion.

      Journals are peer reviewed, and getting a paper accepted to different journals is not the same. Meaning, that some have super mod points over others.

      Also, keep in mind that the creation of the web was to more easily transfer scientific data to scientists, but I don't think its intent was to replace journal publications.

      Another point, is that in academia, they have a saying "Publish or perish". I simply don't think that "throwing some crap on the web" is a drop in replacement. Like the parent said, any bozo can put something on the web, but its not the same as putting something in a scientific journal. Now, many of these journals are available over the web, and they often cost money, and that money is spent on the review process and overhead costs. These journals do not have advertising, they are about science. The web is about, I dunno, piracy, porn, and slashdot or something.

      • There's plenty of good science that isn't important science, but the place for it isn't Science or Nature: it's in Journal of Tiny Sub-field. Most of the time, when a good article is rejected by a broad or high-impact journal, it later appears in a more specialized one which is read only by people working on the same type of thing.

        This is not a bad thing! This is the kind of sorting that is supposed to happen, and the existence of lower-tier journals is vitally important when you're looking for specialized work. I know I read articles form these journals at least as often as I read the big names, because they include details vital to my work. By the same token, we expect articles in the broad-based journals to have enough general interest that they will spark ideas in people outside their own tiny fields.

  • Peer review! (Score:3, Informative)

    by p_trekkie (597206) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:00PM (#23702803) Homepage
    Many of these journals take two or more years to print an article after it has been submitted,

    Peer review, peer review, peer review. It takes months or years for an article to be properly refereed and revised and revised again until it is properly ready for publication.

    There already exists arxiv.org [arxiv.org] for many sciences, where people can publish results before they have been printed. However, many people that read their appropriate newsfeed will only read the articles on their that have already been published or accepted for publication. A lot of drivel gets posted on there since it is not required to be peer reviewed. Journals are a way of filtering for content that is notable and peer-reviewed.
  • by fantomas (94850) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:02PM (#23702821)
    Are academic journals obsolete? Not as long as academic status is measured by your publication record.

    Good points made in the ./ story - journals may take years to be published after articles are submitted, the peer review process can take a long time and may be faulty, paper journals might cost a lot more than online journals to produce, they may not add much to wider society.

    *But* being published in peer reviewed journals is still perceived as being a solid indicator of one's academic status and career progression. It's a key element of an academic CV. It's one way of getting a PhD. Poor publication record, poor career prospects. Published in prestigious journals? you're going places. Until this changes, peer reviewed journals (whether paper or online) will remain central to the academic world.

    I'm speaking as a junior academic. Interested to hear of senior academics perspectives...
    • by JustinOpinion (1246824) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:31PM (#23703045)
      Another junior academic here.

      I feel like the original submitter question slightly confuses the issues of "paper vs. online", "pay access vs. open access" and "journal vs. something else." The fact is that the "paper vs. online" question is already nearly completely settled: journals have shifted aggressively over the last decade towards being online. Many of them still release paper versions--but nearly all academics access journals online nowadays. The business model has shifted from selling print subscriptions to libraries, to selling online subscriptions to institutions. Any decent journal nowadays is online, and searcheable both from the journal site and due to integration with other search services (e.g. Web of Science).

      Journals are adapting, and online systems have helped them streamline their operations. "Two or more years" is no longer the norm. Good journals (with online submission) turn around papers in a few months. The paper is usually available online as soon as it has been accepted and typeset--so the publication is available to anyone interested long before the delayed dead-tree copy is shipped. Also, preprint servers (arXiv [arxiv.org] being the most famous) help academics get their results out quickly, while still publishing things in more official/traditional sources.

      With respect to the "pay access vs. open access" question--this is a more difficult thing to change. Journals are very accustomed to their ability to charge for the spread of information. Many academics (myself included) consider this unfair (as they seem to do very little, relying on volunteer reviewers, and requiring authors to do quite a lot of editing and formatting themselves), and even detrimental to the free spread of information that is crucial to science. Despite the inertia of the entrenched players, things are changing. For instance, the Public Library of Science [plos.org] journals are all open-access, and are doing quite well at attracting high-profile science. The list of open access journals [doaj.org] is growing all the time. The pressure has even induced many traditional journals to sponsor preprint servers (e.g. Nature Precedings [nature.com]), or to give authors the option of making their contribution open-access (usually through a page charge).

      With respect to the "journal vs. something else" question... it's unclear why we should switch away from journals if they suit our needs. The current journal process (rigorous publication requirements, peer review, editorial oversight) is very important to modern science. It helps maintain the rigor and transparency, while reducing fraud and sub-standard work.

      All of that to say that I'm a little confused by the initial submission. The situation is changing. Nearly everything is online. Open access is gaining traction. Modern journals bear little resemblance to the printed versions of a few decades ago... so the suggestion that they are "obsolete" somewhat misses the mark.
      • by myc (105406) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:42PM (#23703125)
        There is also a new NIH mandate that any research results that are published as a result of NIH funding must be open access after 6 months of the publication date. There is definitely a shift to the open access paradigm. How this will affect the business model of traditional publishing houses is not known, nor do I particularly care. Support open access journals [plos.org]!
    • by Rutulian (171771) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:39PM (#23703095)
      *But* being published in peer reviewed journals is still perceived as being a solid indicator of one's academic status and career progression.

      And not for a bad reason. Economics is driven by productivity. A carpenter or a plumber can perform a service for somebody. A physician can treat somebody. A computer programmer can write software needed to help you run your business.

      A scientist does research, but what's the difference between him and the above? The above are fairly tangible and their contribution to society easily measured. A scientists contributions are not. But people try, and the most popular method is via publications. Still, the benefit to society of basic research is a long-term affair and isn't usually realized right away. So how do you determine how much of your resources to allocate to it?

      I think publications, to an extent, are a measure of productivity. If a scientist can get a research project off the ground, get relevant data, analyze it, answer an important scientific question, and put it all together into a nice story, that is productivity. If he can't, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean he is unproductive, but it is a lot harder to measure his contribution. And just like the computer programmer who is fresh out of school with no real experience to demonstrate, an employer is more likely to go with somebody who has proven himself than with somebody who hasn't.
  • The question posed is, as other commenters have pointed out, ridiculous, as science must be peer reviewed.

    However, a question that should be asked is whether or not printed journals are obsolete. Whenever I need to research papers, I search almost exclusively through online journals and professors' publication pages. Google scholar makes this search pretty painless, and there are free, open journals that are getting quite decent. Is it time to move to online-only publications to save costs and speed up distribution?
  • Public Library of Science [plos.org]

    PLoS Core Principles
    1. Open access. All material published by the Public Library of Science, whether submitted to or created by PLoS, is published under an open access license [slashdot.org] that allows unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.
    2. Excellence. PLoS strives to set the highest standards for excellence in everything we do: in content, style, and aesthetics of presentation; in editorial performance at every level; in transparency and accessibility to the scientific community and public; and in educational value.
    3. Scientific integrity. PLoS is committed to a fair, rigorous editorial process. Scientific quality and importance are the sole considerations in publication decisions. The basis for decisions will be communicated to authors.
    4. Breadth. Although pragmatic considerations require us to focus initially on publishing high-impact research in the life sciences, we intend to expand our scope as rapidly as practically possible, to provide a vehicle for publication of other valuable scientific or scholarly articles.
    5. Cooperation. PLoS welcomes and actively seeks opportunities to work cooperatively with any group (scientific/scholarly societies, physicians, patient advocacy groups, educational organizations) and any publisher who shares our commitment to open access and to making scientific information available for the good of science and the public.
    6. Financial fairness. As a nonprofit organization, PLoS charges authors a fair price that reflects the actual cost of publication. However, the ability of authors to pay publication charges will never be a consideration in the decision whether to publish.
    7. Community engagement. PLoS was founded as a grassroots organization and we are committed to remaining one, with the active participation of practicing scientists [slashdot.org] at every level. Every publishing decision has at its heart the needs of the constituencies that we serve (scientists, physicians, educators, and the public).
    8. Internationalism. Science is international. PLoS aims to be a truly international organization by providing access to the scientific literature to anyone, anywhere; by publishing works from every nation; and by engaging a geographically diverse group of scientists in the editorial process.
    9. Science as a public resource. Our mission of building a public library of science includes not only providing unrestricted access to scientific research ideas and discoveries, but developing tools and materials to engage the interest and imagination of the public and helping non-scientists to understand and enjoy scientific discoveries and the scientific process.
  • slanted question (Score:5, Informative)

    by ghostlibrary (450718) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:09PM (#23702883) Homepage Journal
    This question isn't even asking the right questions, just (I'm guessing) pushing an anti-journal agenda. One inaccuracy:

    > Many of these journals take two or more years to print an article after it has been submitted,

    Any journal that takes that long in the hard sciences wouldn't stay in print. Their own requirements are that the work be timely. I've had papers pulled because our team took too long (3 months) to submit a rewrite.

    Now, an article _might_ take 2 years from 'first blog post announcing a discovery' to 'peer-accepted academic paper', but that's because the _research_, not the paper process, takes time to be both complete and thorough. I can blog "I discovered X", but any paper needs to explain why I know it's X and not Y, what the confidence levels are, and how it compares with competing explanations. In short, you have to analyze, write and edit.

    The actual submission process for, say, Astrophysics Journal can go by in 3 months from submission to publication if the writing team is keeping up with the requested edits.

    I will also point out ADS (at ads.harvard.edu) has provided free searchable access to astronomy journals since 1992. Further, most (if not all) astronomy journals require electronic submission (and review rounds are electronic too). So for that area of science, journals are ideal: timely, thorough, and vetted.
    • Re:slanted question (Score:4, Informative)

      by jmv (93421) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:32PM (#23703057) Homepage
      I've seen one of my papers take one year to get reviewed. I know someone who's paper took two years and came back from peer review with "good idea, but the work is a bit old". So yes, it happens. Not always, but frequently enough that it's a problem.
  • Peer Review (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mathimus1863 (1120437) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:15PM (#23702951)
    Peer review is the single most important aspect of scientific/mathematical development, and that doesn't exist online, unless it's reprinting the peer reviewed journals. The process for journal publication is what ensures that there is quality being printed and that multiple other scientists agree with the results (or rather, don't find problems with it).

    You'll notice http://www.claymath.org/millennium/ [claymath.org] has seven, $1million problems and the money won't be awarded until a solution has been published, and survives the peer review process for two years. Without this process, there is no mechanism for separating people who sound like they know what they're talking about, and people who *actually* know what they're talking about.
  • by Kryptikmo (1256514) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:15PM (#23702961)
    As a member of an active high energy physics collaboration, we just published our first paper at JHEP [sissa.it] which is an open access journal that does not charge for access to papers. It works like any other journal - you email your submission, and it is refereed by, IIRC, two independent anonymous referees.

    Not only is it free, it has a high impact rating in the UK, so we can even publish there without having our careers impacted. Backed by the Institute of Physics, it is an example of what journals could easily become in time. I doubt that much in there will be of interest to the /. community, but it's a harbinger of things to come across all fields, I hope. I would expect that within 10-20 years, there'll be very few, if any pay-to-publish-and-pay-to-read journals.

    In the same way that HEP has been using linux now for at least a decade, we are getting there with publishing too. Let's hope we can have some more examples here of other serious sciences with open-access journals.

  • No. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ajdecon (233641) <ajdecon@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:16PM (#23702973)

    Journals act as a combination of quality control and aggregation/filtering of "interesting" material. When you read an article which has been published by an academic journal, you have some assurance both that the content is of reasonably high quality and that it is likely to be important and interesting to someone interested in the field the journal covers. The journal also assures you that these evaluations have been made by competent experts in the field who do not have a conflict of interest in evaluating the work. The system also gives scientists access to reviewers they may not be personally familiar with, who frequently make recommendations to improve the work before publication. Obviously there are problems on occasion (conflicts of interest occur, or bad articles make it in/good articles are rejected) but journals still act as a pretty decent filtering mechanism.

    Is it possible that this could be handled purely online in some decentralized manner? I suppose so, but I expect that the signal to noise ratio would be much lower and the quality of reviewing would be likely to suffer.

    Note that I'm not defending the current expensive paper-publication restricted-access model: the jury is out on how well that will survive. But I think it's worth noticing that even online open-access journals like PLoS ONE still follow a recognizable editor-reviewer model, and still charge submission fees to operate.

  • by kklein (900361) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:17PM (#23702981)

    As an academic myself, I can only say it would be utter madness to do away with academic journals. Peer review, though sometimes flawed (editorial bias), serves as information quality control. Yes, tripe still gets published. Yes, good papers still get refused. But it works well enough.

    However, again, as an academic myself, I am very much opposed to the insane prices to get at research, both as a researcher and a writer. I have found that, if your research budget can't handle getting at a key piece of research, an email to the person who did it oftentimes results in a Word file or a PDF, because what they want is for you to read and use their work as well.

    All this really is is the same copyright/IP storm we see everywhere else. Producers and consumers want each others' lives to be easy and to be able to meet each others' needs. But there is a massive organization in the middle that maybe costs too much but which handles some of the important work necessary to avoid wasting people's time. It's fun to research, but no one really likes reading all the unfiltered crap, so those people--regular professors--on those editorial boards have to be paid.

    I'm seeing Creative Commons licenses creeping in, slowly, though. I think we'll see big changes coming down the pipe in academic, peer-reviewed journals, same as anywhere else.

  • Obsolete? Really? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by maccam (967469) on Sunday June 08 2008, @06:30PM (#23703463)
    As an academic, who has been involved on both sides of the process, author and editor, I think this article is off base.
    With the ability to get information anywhere in the world in seconds...Many of these journals take two or more years to print an article after it has been submitted
    Two years would be highly unusual; a journal with such a long publication lead time would soon find itself without submissions from authors. The parts of the process that take the most time are the peer review, the essential quality-control step, and the revisions by the authors.

    the information is very difficult (or expensive) to obtain
    The main users of these publications have access at university libraries and almost all major journals are already online. As for expensive, organizing, preserving and keeping a repository of published research will cost something.

    Does this hinder technological advancement?
    No, why would it?

    There are certainly other venues for peer review, so why journals?
    What other venues? Most journals are available as PDFs.

    What do they offer our society?
    They hold the main body of research published to date...or should we hit reset and start over?

    Are they just a way to evaluate the productivity of professors?
    No more or less so than the hypothetical and unspecified "other venues" would be.
  • Um, no. (Score:4, Funny)

    by pz (113803) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:23PM (#23704269) Journal
    With the ability to get information anywhere in the world in seconds, and the virtually immediate obsolescence of any printed work, why are journals such an important part of academic research?

    Ease of accessibility is orthogonal to the question of what the role of academic journals is in modern society. Journals perform one basic service: vetting. The more prestigious the journal, the more exacting the vetting (and, nominally, the converse is true). There are journals which accept well under 30% of submissions. It is entirely based on reputation, and the only way of developing reputation is to have a long, consistent history of certain behaviors. Journals, good ones at least, publish high-quality work.

    In what field does the appearance of a printed article mean certain obsolescence? Certainly none of the ones I'm familiar with, consider publishing in, and read on a regular basis.

    Many of these journals take two or more years to print an article after it has been submitted, ...

    While the reviewing process can be slow in some cases, the mean time to publishing for most high-quality academic journals is (warning, purely subjective experience:) under a year. What journals are routinely taking over two years from initial submission to appearing in print? I'm not personally aware of any that take this long.

    and the information is very difficult (or expensive) to obtain.

    Difficult? In what way? If you have a subscription, journals go out of their way to make it easy to get copies of the articles. In fact, journals make it easy to access the abstracts so as to entice you to purchase the content. If you are an academician, you likely have an affiliation with an institution that would already have a subscription. If you work in industry, the cost of purchasing an article shouldn't be prohibitive. Google Scholar in addition to a wide variety of indexing services make it nearly trivial to find out about articles. With the new NIH mandate that any NIH-funded research must be publicly available after one year, nearly all biologically-related research will be free and easy. I smell a troll.

    Does this hinder technological advancement?

    I cannot imagine anyone would think that technological advancement (the fact that the OP does not say "scientific" advancement is perhaps a sign that the whole posting is a troll) has been held back appreciably over the last 50 years.

    There are certainly other venues for peer review, so why journals?

    Such as? I'm not familiar with any. Peer review and journal publication are symbiotic. Or did you think that the Slashdot model is peer review? It's definitely related (I've had discussions about Slashdot with editors of PLoS and Nature which, I suspect, influenced their earlier implementation of community review).

    What do they offer our society?

    This is a troll.

    Are they just a way to evaluate the productivity of professors?"

    No, as other responders have written, journals are gatekeepers to the permanent record of what is considered to be high-quality knowledge. You don't hear criticisms about accuracy levied at Nature and Science the way you do at Wikipedia, and while there are occasional retractions, the top journals are well-regarded because they are, in large part, careful. That said, one way of evaluating academic productivity is to measure publication rate. But then, one way of evaluating business productivity is to measure quarterly profit. Both are good, and both are incomplete unless you consider other factors as well.

    On the whole, the questions posed in this posting are all somewhere between just naive and outright trolls.
  • by udippel (562132) on Sunday June 08 2008, @11:18PM (#23705139)
    [Being an old-timer,]I can in principle agree on the quality control. But the all-out American style of 'publish or perish' has resulted in some weird consequences:

    1. There are thousands of academicians about with - just to give an example - 150 publications in 10 years of activity. 15 publications per year, that is one per good three weeks. Considering teaching obligations, supervisions, time for reviewing others' papers, making corrections as required by the reviewers, could take 1 week out of these three. If I have the honour to shake the hand of a person who can come up with a relevant contribution to science once a fortnight; do I shake the hand of a genius or the hand of a schemer?

    2. Some will argue on the 'high impact journal'. While 'Nature' might be one of those, does this make my contribution in the [fictitious] 'Research Journal of the West Indies' any worse? Can one really exclude to encounter relevant contributions in the latter; maybe attributable to the shyness of the author?

    3. More philosophically: Quality Control. The term implies that the researcher/professor needs to be controlled; or, (s)he can't be trusted to rather silently pursue the topic of inclination, the intrinsic drive, the obsession to advance what is close to one's heart?
    Personally, it is a disease of our times to just not trust; to ask [Anglo-American style] for objective measures at evaluation. As a researcher for many years now, I still feel that team members can assess the contributions and qualities of another team member pretty well. Much better than a quantifiable number ('number of publications') could. Often enough, I have to observe that attainment of these so-called objective achievements takes precedence over inherent quality. Last not least because promotion or tenure are attached to quantifiable criteria.

    4. The author is correct on the relatively long duration between writing and publication. But not only is the lapse in time disadvantageous; also the effort(s) required by the average author [like myself]. Personally, I am rather drawn to online, direct, peer-to-peer interaction; like in the communities of the FOSS [and Slashdot]: The feedback is normally immediate, the product or solution can be trashed out in comparatively short terms through a consolidated effort.
    Being a member in quite a few of these communities, I perceive another advantage: plagiarism. Better: the relative lack thereof. Due to the direct and spontaneous interaction, there is not much of an incentive or time, to retrieve others' works just to show off.

    5. When I started, a quarter of a century ago, there were a handful of relevant journals in my field; and it was possible to scan them, and be up to date. Probably one of our team would draw our attention to relevant articles.
    In these days, maybe due to the pressure to publish, most articles - of course except those in some highly relevant journals - will not even be noticed; or can't be noticed. It can be asked, if people like Alexander Fleming or Einstein would necessarily have been noticed in the contemporary academic publication climate.

    Despite 1-5 above, we need per-review; and even more though in these days with all and sundry crackpot being able to publish the flat-earth-theory on his or her webpage or blogsite.
    I do doubt, though, that we need expensive printed journals. If one has achieved ground-breaking research - to pick up the argument from before - there is no reason to waste trees in order to distribute the results.

  • by Dr_Ish (639005) on Monday June 09 2008, @01:13AM (#23705787) Homepage
    The original post asks,

    "There are certainly other venues for peer review, so why journals? What do they offer our society? Are they just a way to evaluate the productivity of professors?"

    First off, most 'other venues for peer review' (at least the ones that are any good) are frequently associated with journals. Second, there are many ways to evaluate the 'productivity of professors' and peer reviewed publications are only one, but an important one.

    As many other people have noted, the crucial issue with journals has to do with quality control. It really does matter. Speaking as an academic with with a bit of seniority, journal publications are the first thing looked at by tenure and promotion committees and by job search committees. In the words of a very famous and senior person in my field(s), "The refereed publication is the one form of academic gold that can never be debased." As academic journals are the usual place to find refereed publications, this alone is one reason why they still matter.

    That being said, there are some caveats which are in order. The first is to realize that not all 'refereed' journals are equal. A journal which has a blind refereeing process, but publishes almost anything submitted, despite this, will have a low impact rating. A publication in one of these places will not count for much. By contrast, a journal that has a 99% rejection rate will almost certainly have a high impact rating and will thus be much more impressive.

    It is also the case that, having served as a journal editor, many submissions to journals are far from perfect. As a rough estimate, I would see 10-20% of submissions that came from people who were simply nuts. Without some kind of editing and refereeing process, a great deal of plain rubbish would have been in print.

    Currently, academic journals are undergoing a transitional process. The turn around times are getting better, but there are still problems. For instance, as a faculty member at a State university, I am employed by the people of my State. Yet, when I have a paper accepted for publication by a journal, I have to sign over the copyright of the paper. If the people of my State, or even my students, want to read my work, they then have to pay the publishers for the right to do so. This is simply wrong and a system that will hopefully be replaced soon. Naturally, I provide anyone who asks for a copy of a paper of mine, one for free. The system is still defective though.

    However, the bottom line is that peer review, and the academic journals that maintain this, are crucial for quality control. Just do a hunt on the blogs and you will see the reason why. There are quite a few 'professor' bloggers, but it is also clear that at least some of them are either frauds, or failures. Some time ago, I saw one who claimed that they could not get a paper published in any refereed journal, either good, or bad, because their paper was too 'insightful'. This is patent silliness. A better explanation was that the paper was simply unoriginal, or bad in some other way. A further reading of the same blog suggests either outright fraud, mental illness, or both. This is one of the reasons why, for all their faults, we still have academic journals. I say Thank Goodness!

  • by Selanit (192811) on Monday June 09 2008, @02:31AM (#23706165)
    The submitter wrote:

    ... virtually immediate obsolescence of any printed work ...
    I'd like to point out that obsolescence varies by field. Sure, in the hard sciences (physics, chemistry, etc) research gets superseded very fast. But there are plenty of other fields out there, and not all of them work that way.

    For example, I'm a medievalist. The people I study have all been dead for centuries, and genuinely new data are rare. Once every few years somebody will find a lost manuscript or something, but for the most part we're working with known, thoroughly studied information. Our research doesn't churn; it accretes. I routinely consult articles that are decades old, and in one instance I can think of, I actually cited an article that was over a hundred years old. New research is important too, but it tends to take the form of a new angle on existing data.

    Other fields have their own tempos, I'm sure. It's a mistake to assume that all academic fields work alike.
    • by SlashWombat (1227578) on Sunday June 08 2008, @05:12PM (#23702921)
      Don't forget, these publications are also a source of money to the publishing bodies. 99% of searches for modern scientific data ends up at one of several sites, and all you can see is an abstract. To see anything more, you need to pay cold hard cash. So, really, these publishing bodies are actually slowing down the advancement of mankind!

      Same is true for "standards". (ISO or otherwise). IMHO, if they want to call it a standard, it really should be free. (Especially considering that the standards bodies have the "standard" written by people/companies giving their time for free!)
      • by ceoyoyo (59147) on Monday June 09 2008, @01:01PM (#23712589)
        Any decent university will have an electronic subscription to all but the most obscure journals. If you don't work at or in conjunction with a university or at another research lab that subscribes to the important journals of the field then you can always GO to a university library, sit down at one of their computers and pull down pdfs to your heart's content. For free.

        Slowing down the advancement of mankind? I doubt it very much.