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A Full-Time 2-Way Video Link To Grandparents?
Posted by
timothy
on Sat Aug 23, 2008 03:33 PM
from the picturephones-with-voip dept.
from the picturephones-with-voip dept.
uid7306m writes "We have elderly parents who live a long way off. However, my technological radar tells me that it's possible to set up a 24/7 video link between our kitchen and theirs. It'd be good for our kids and good for the parents, and we can now get pretty cheap nearly unlimited broadband connections at this end (UK). What's the best way to do it? Has anyone tried it? On the far end, it ought to have, in Dilbert's(TM) immortal words 'One big button on it, and we push it for you in the factory.'"
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Apple iChat (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Informative)
Why not Skype, I use that on my mac to talk with my friend in Hawaii who uses Linux on here laptop. Video quality is very good. Now if only my MBP had better speakers.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Informative)
Skype also has the API that you could always write a simple bash script to use, I believe it uses DCOP for the calls. Don't know how extensive it is, but any API can be very useful in obtaining the ultimate '1 click' stop and shop deal... Not sure if it is still active but they used to have it where communication between Skype accounts were free, there is also a ZOOM modem like thing for Skype now, pretty cheap at Wally world, that you can hook a normal phone up to it.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Informative)
On Linux, Skype uses DBUS and X11 messaging. On Windows, it's a COM object. Either way, you are correct, it's pretty easy to get something up and running quickly - a simple gui written in PyQt with a single button: "Talk to Kids".
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not Skype
Just because you ask: I think some of us don't like a 12MB encrypted binary executable file running on our system that nobody [blackhat.com] except the creators know what it does.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Funny)
Just because you ask: I think some of us don't like a 12MB encrypted binary executable file running on our system that nobody except the creators know what it does.
Well, if disk space is an issue, just gzip it or something. But, gosh, for 12MB... You should delete a few things, man.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:4, Funny)
I know there are floss alternatives, but to tell you the truth, the waterpik just doesn't get the stuff out from in between my teeth.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Funny)
Just because you ask: I think some of us don't like a 12MB encrypted binary executable file running on our system that nobody [blackhat.com] except the creators know what it does.
It appears to make phone calls over the Internet and to POTS phones. Mystery solved.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know, but this sub thread was about iChat, which depends on about 3 gigs of encrypted code, the majority of which only the dark Apple overlords knows what goes on inside of.
Telephone networks, network switches at your ISP, cell phones, gmail, name servers, and non-local web servers all have code invisible to the end user.
So, we might as well get paranoid enough to shun all modern communications technology if we are going to get our panties in a wad over a single closed source program.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:4, Funny)
As it is also good at managing to bypass firewalls (as I understand) who knows what else it can do, does, or could be made to do?
"What makes Skype so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can be spread through the existing e-mail systems of the InterNet. Once a computer is infected, one of several things can happen. If the computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop - which can severely damage the processor if left running that way too long. Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what is happening until it is far too late. "
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Apple iChat (Score:5, Interesting)
Just for anyone who hasn't tried iChat, I've used a LOT of video conferencing software and iChat's video conferencing is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else out there for the mainstream.
I have no idea what they do to preserve so much video quality on the trip, but it's astoundingly good. Comparing it to Skype or regular AIM (or MSN or what-have-you) chat is pretty laughable and anyone who's really compared will vouch for that.
Parent
Re:Apple iChat (Score:4, Informative)
ichat worked well with my wife in Beijing and my daughter in Edinburgh this summer. iChat allowed simultaneous conversations, skype doesn't, AFAIK.
One fun thing: inviting my wife 12 time zones away over to dinner with friends. The Mac is like Elijah, doesn't eat much, and cause dinner conversation worked well. Poor video quality wasn't a bother.
ches
Parent
hmm (Score:5, Funny)
24/7? Guess no more going out to the kitchen in your undies for a late night snack.
Re:hmm (Score:5, Funny)
That's not an issue. In the UK, it's pretty chilly most of the year, so there's very little incentive to wander around in much less than a furry bathrobe.
Parent
Bad idea (Score:5, Funny)
Unless you want your kids to see grandpa giving it to grandma over the kitchen sink, I wouldn't recommend it.
Re:Bad idea (Score:5, Funny)
Wait. I think there's a channel dedicated to that kink.
Parent
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Informative)
Rule 34 says:
There is porn of it. No exceptions
Rule 35 says:
If no porn is found at the moment, it will be created.
Parent
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Informative)
Rule #34: If it exists, there's porn of it.
Rule #35: If there's no porn of it, porn of it will be made.
Parent
Skype... (Score:5, Insightful)
... but that might be too complicated.
I could see some advantages of streaming both ways to large flat panels. I think it would be a bit intrusive, though, because as much as I love my parents I'm very glad there is a 10 hour distance between us.
If all else fails you could just do a webcast. While interestingly linked, I just can't get into the concept too much for fear that one day I might see my mother in law staring back at us ;)
Re:Skype... (Score:5, Informative)
Skype might be good enough, because you can set it to auto-start, and you can set it to auto-accept calls (so you can initiate the calls from your end) and I think you can set it to auto-start in full-screen. That way, once you have it all set up, the most they'll have to do is turn on the physical power, and you'll be able to initiate the connection from your end.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually if they already have large flat panel monitors, use a small computer like a mac mini, or one of the mini itx boards. Mount the video camera either above ore below the display and conceal it slightly if needed.
that way they could simply push a couple of buttons on a remote and activate it. you get the big veiw, comfy chairs, of the living room while you chat.
As long as you can turn it off occasionally it isn't bad.
Re:Skype... (Score:5, Funny)
I told you never to call me on this wall!
Parent
Re:Skype... (Score:4, Funny)
And change the combination on my luggage!
Parent
Set top video conferencing appliance (Score:5, Informative)
I am sure that there are other similar products, and at under $150 a piece, something like the DLink DVC-1000 here: http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=1&pid=8 [dlink.com] would be hard to beat in terms of simplicity.
iChatAV on OS X (Score:5, Informative)
I have tried it on numerous occasions - it is solid for home-home comminications.
Also, everything is just a click away!
You can also use skype but the quality is not consistent. Also, too many clicks.
Bandwidth caps? (Score:5, Informative)
Are you with a decent ISP? (If there is such a thing)
If you are with Virgin Media then you will easily exceed their bandwidth limits which you can find at the bottom of this page [virginmedia.com].
I'm not sure what other ISPs set their limits at (or if they publish them at all like VM do) but I'm pretty sure you would exceed them also.
I'd think about the possibility of other options, such as simply using a video-call when required. Most of the time you would simply be streaming video of 2 empty kitchens to each other wouldn't you?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bandwidth caps? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/ [lavrsen.dk]
feature list:
http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/MotionFeatureList [lavrsen.dk]
You could have it trigger an external program to get that "one big button set at the factory" effect merely by walking into the kitchen.
Parent
Re:Bandwidth caps? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nah, make a point of getting an analog clock with no seconds hand; you have an instant way of double-checking that the link is actually active, and a handy timeout prevention device. One frame per minute isn't going to kill your bandwidth.
Parent
Ekiga (Score:3, Informative)
If you have a Linux distribution, there is 'ekiga' which allows you to run video conferencing.
But I've always wondered if there was something simpler that wouldn't need to go through a third party server, and would allow the webcam window to be resized.
Skype (Score:5, Informative)
Home made thing. (Score:5, Informative)
At your gramp's kitchen, two options:
If you're not very adventurous: Any computer. Any video conferencing software (such as Skype). VPN software (such as OpenVPN). VNC software (such as RealVNC). The best is if you get a computer where the screen and computer are in the same enclosure. You don't even hook up a keyboard or a rat. If something happens, you lgo on their desktop thru the VPN and VNC and click on Skype again or whatever.
If you are very adventurous. Buy a nice flat screen display. Take the damn thing apart and get rid of all the crap except the screen and whatever signal massaging hardware is hooked up to it. Get a single board x86 computer that has a watchdog chip on it and built-in flash and tons of RAM for your software installation. Attach it and the screen's signal massaging hardware to one side of a rectangular piece of sheet metal the size of the display, and attach the display on the other side of it. Make that sheet metal a bit taller than the display. Get a camera with built-in microphone; take it apart, and attach it above the display. This probably requires drilling a few holes, tapping is optional, and will probably require some nuts, standoffs, etc. Run the wires however you can, preferably the shortest distance possible. Make an enclosure for this out of wood or something. Install Linux, OpenVPN, X, VNC, and your video conferencing software (something like Ekiga, hacked to automatically initiate a connection to you upon startup) into the flash in such a manner that upon power-up or reset, the entire flash partition is copied into RAM that's treated as a partition and booted from there. At all other times, the flash is never touched. Upon the computer crashing, locking up, or being h4x0red/0wn3d/etc., (which might happen once in a while), the watchdog will reboot it, so a fresh, original filesystem image is loaded back into the RAM and rebooted. This can happen in a matter of a minute from reset thru the videoconferencing software coming up again. With OpenVPN, you can always log in and fix something unexpected if that happens. While we're at it, build yourself one of these. And for extra credit, document the whole process with photos and videos and post it online for everyone to respect you in awe for being such a 1337 h4x0rz yourself. Heck, you might even be able to make a business out of selling a bunch of these. Hint: If you want to do that, stock up on a bunch of the same model display, because those change all the time and you can never buy the same exact thing (with same hardware attached) twice. If you attempt to go through one of those flatscreen stocking companies, the same display will cost you double and not come with the added hardware.
Hard videophone is the option (Score:5, Interesting)
We have bought a pair of Grandstream videophone. The are cheap and much easier to use than PC for older people as they are basically ... telephones.
You can even setup Grandpa's one in auto-answer mode but I would not recommend it for obvious privacy issues as one of the comments above maliciously reminded.
AH and to overcome NAT and dynamic IP address issues, you have to setup a hosted SIP proxy and media relay such as Asterisk. I cheat here as this the very business of my company.
By the way if you want a pair of free SIP accounts and the Grandstream videophone, we could sell them to you.
Imagine the trauma your kids will suffer... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Imagine the trauma your kids will suffer... (Score:5, Funny)
There's something about the concept of "passing away live" that confuses me...
Parent
Re:Imagine the trauma your kids will suffer... (Score:5, Funny)
This is the UK. Grandma and Gramps are probably, what, 32? 33?
Parent
"Unlimited Broadband" (Score:5, Insightful)
Umm haven't you heard? You only get that if you dont use it.
Start doing 24/7 video and you will find your connection throttled, or gone.
Surveillance systems (Score:5, Informative)
There are a variety of IP surveillance systems on the market designed for people who want to monitor their vacation homes, etc. Most of these are pretty inexpensive and easy to configure. That might be easier than building your own system using PCs.
This company seems to offer a wide variety of solutions, some standalone, some PC based: www.fgeng.com
Simple (Score:5, Funny)
iChat is the best (Score:4, Informative)
Several have already said it, but I had to endorse iChat.
I have 7x24 video conferencing up and running with a remote test team in India. The idea is that it is muted unless one or the other side wants to say something.
We tried both Skype Video (another frequently mentioned option) and iChat. We are staying with iChat due to the simplicity, robustness, and quality.
With Skype we had the connection drop multiple times in a night. With iChat it runs and runs and runs.
With Skype, we had significant video and audio artifacts all of the time. With iChat they are infrequent occurrences.
For Skype I had to write up an instruction guide. With iChat folks just got it.
So, I say go with iChat.
24/7? Nofreakingway (Score:5, Funny)
On behalf of my fellow elderlies (I'm only honorary, at 53, but I'm in training), you do not want a 24/7 link. It needs to have a call siggnal and an on/off switch. You, and we, do not need to deal with your trauma of seeing grandpa bending grandma over the sink for a sneak-up quickie.
Don't think we don't. You don't want to think about it at all, so consider the reasons why you don't want to.
If you want a global on switch, fine. Let us have an override off switch. Put an hour delay cut-off on it if you like. We're old, it takes us more than the 10 minutes you kids take. (Just wait until you get to enjoy that aspect). And we're gladly admit that an hour is plenty, and we should be looked in on after that. Especially if we spend the whole hour.
On the other hand, I've heard said "We wouldn't even bother to do it anymore, but the kids like to watch." If your elders have that mindset, go ahead and give them the means to offer you instruction 24/7. You don't think they haven't learned a few novel tricks in 40 or so years?
Got a problem with this? Get over yourself. You're halfway to this age yourself, and I'm betting when you get there you'll have no plans on stopping.
Go ahead and mod this funny, since you don't have a "+1 elders' wisdom" mod.
I hate to sound cynical, but: (Score:5, Insightful)
VLVC (Score:4, Informative)
seems like a easy and free / multi platform and open source solution is the VLVC plugin for VLC
http://www.vlvc.net/en-home.html [vlvc.net]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"It's a sad commentary on the "state of the art" of supposed Nerds here, too true."
Don't you have 100 tacos to buy and a Doctor Who marathon to watch?
Re:I have a suggestion... (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't you have 100 tacos to buy and a Doctor Who marathon to watch?
Yes, but because I took the time to fucking think about it, the PVR in my PC is working just fine so I'll timeshift the Dr Who marathon a bit and take the time to reply to you. Anyway, the Tacos are on their way and it takes a while to stuff 100 of them into the delivery guy's car (so i hear).
I agree with the parent's sentiment - what has happened to the nerd way of doing something because it needed to be done? Very few people want to think about their problems anymore.
The powerful scientific pocket calculator was the start of all this hoo haa. Kids were dumbed down and started forgetting to do basic arithmetic (yes, there are many who can't work out how much change I get when the till is down and I've just ordered a hundred tacos).
The Intarwebs has been the other downfall. People are only too happy to put "i want to do X" into Google and click pages. If no useful results come up they bitch and moan that there is no way to do X (maybe X is just something so menially boring that nobody documented it, or it's just dumb, or nobody ever thought of it yet) but these people don't care.
What you're seeing people is the well-established decline in intelligence and determination which comes with the "google-it" culture.
Parent
Re:I have a suggestion... (Score:4, Funny)
I bet you have an automatic machine that chases whipper-snappers off your lawn.
Parent
Re:webcam video cast (Score:5, Informative)
Yup. VLC passing off to a Darwin Streaming Server and being viewed by VLC on the other end. Easy to do, no issues until power goes out
Parent
Re:In the us unlimited broadband may be going away (Score:5, Funny)
Considering the depths this thread has gone to, did you misspell streaming on purpose?
Parent