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Where to Find Axles, Gears For Kinetic Sculpture?
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Oct 22, 2008 04:13 PM
from the man-you-don't-meet-every-day dept.
from the man-you-don't-meet-every-day dept.
sneakyimp writes "My brother is an architect and sculptor and wants to create kinetic sculptures powered by wind, steam, and sun. He wants to avoid electrical systems and keep this mechanical. He's prepared to cast metals for custom parts if necessary, but is hoping to find a cheap source of gears, axles, and bearings for the internal mechanical workings of these contraptions. We'll need things like miter/bevel/spur/helical gears, standard and thrust bearings, and axles." Read on below for more on the details of what sneakyimp is looking for — dismembered Capsela units won't do it.
sneakyimpo continues: "These parts won't need to support much power or torque (probably less than 1 horsepower / 550 ft-lbs). Ideally, we could get a kit which contains a variety of bevel and spur gears, a few axles, and standardized connect interfaces — kind of like a box of Legos for tinkering and prototyping.
I found the Stock Drive Products site and it looks like an extensive catalog, but one really needs to know what one is looking for and I don't think we're there yet. I've also found custom gear manufacturers and cheap plastic hobby kits but these are either too outrageously expensive or ridiculously under qualified for the job at hand.
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
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Shop (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called a metal shop.
They make these things in bulk.
You can often buy some of the more "standard" pieces fairly cheaply if you're friendly. Anything else will need to be custom-made, which they can also do, but for a much steeper price.
Re:Shop (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Shop (Score:5, Insightful)
What kind of reason is that? That doesn't make any sense at all
Because if he didn't post anon he'd be immediately reported as a spammer and burned at the stake for daring to post a link for a vendor with which he has a connection.
I work in the computer security arena and I've been burned on /. for the same reason, so now I too only post anon when I'm referring vendors, lest I'm immediately branded a spammer.
Parent
The absolute best book (Score:3, Interesting)
It has mechanisms and mechanical ideas that you'd never have thought of to do all sorts of interesting movements - ideal for any dynamic sculptures etc.
And while you're looking for power sources, consider Stirling machines. Unlike steam, they don't use water so can't boil dry.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So you've not heard of such places as Bearing Suppliers, industrial hardware suppliers, etc.? Do they not have yellow pages where you are? Or the google?
Seriously, my local bearing shop can supply bearings, runners, castors, racks, pinions, gears, cogs, pulleys, belts, etc. from tiny precision bits to earthmover size.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Want a source of axles, chain drive, gears, etc?
Raid busted Xerox machines, the large ones you find in offices. I've rebuilt my bike totally from Xerox machine parts.
Re:Mod parent up (Score:5, Informative)
Being a machinist, I'm telling you that the approach you just offered is a hell of alot of investment, time, and learning.
I've been a machinist for 5 years, I've worked on aerospace, medical, and defense parts. Even to this day, without a damned expensive hogging machine, it still takes alot of time and all my expertise to properly machine one gear. Keep in mind here that I'm in charge of Journeymen with decades of experience, who still come to me with questions. My employer bills my time at $65/hr, and it can take me 2 days to make a custom gear. Don't forget material or tooling, we charge you for that too.
You're better off having a GEAR shop (Note that they're often quite different from a machine shop) make your quarry, far cheaper and less hassle. Gear making can be done by a machinist, but our equipment isn't geared for it (pun intended). The fact that any given gear has 31 related characteristics to it that all have to be held to a notable tolerance makes things a royal pain in the ass.
Best thing to do is to get a Machinery Handbook (decent coin, but the best investment a tinkerer will EVER make), learn the different pitches and what not, and order the gears from there. Once you realize what it is you want to do with it, there are only three things you need to know. Teeth, Pitch, and Diameter. Pitch need to be the same, teeth and diameter dictate power transfer and at what rate. Check out McMaster Carr, or MSC. As a matter of fact, McMaster Carr has some educational material on their site, just search for "gears". Even for worm and pinions, once you know what you're going to do with them, you just have to make up your mind about size.
Parent
Re:Mod parent up (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
The Mother of all Supply Stores (Score:5, Informative)
www.mcmaster.com
Re:The Mother of all Supply Stores (Score:5, Informative)
Note: At first glance, the front page of their website looks like some kind of lame link farm. Click once or twice, or enter some search terms, and see the wonder that is mcmaster-carr. This may be the most "i'm not sure what i need, exactly, but i'll know it when i see it"-friendly website or hardware store i've ever seen.
Parent
Re:The Mother of all Supply Stores (Score:5, Insightful)
thirded.
also, i think they just went out of business but i'm not sure:
http://www.trianglemachinery.com/ [trianglemachinery.com]
i'm not sure where you're located though, you kinda need to be there to know what to get.
surplus places are good when you're making custom art-like stuff.
-Taylor
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Your toybox? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm no expert and I didn't really read exactly what you were looking for, but what about going to places like Goodwill / Salvation Army Stores / Garage sales and disassembling some of the older toys that are likely missing parts. I'm sure an old music box has some good quality metal gears, etc. and you probably won't spend more than a few bucks.
Layne
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
American Science & Surplus (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.sciplus.com/ [sciplus.com]
Re: (Score:2)
but oh, no! [bluefeathertech.com] it looks like Wacky Willy's is gone. That is truly sad.
Re:American Science & Surplus (Score:4, Informative)
If you're in Chicago, there's a joint called American Scientific and Surplus out on Milwaukee near Bryn Mawr.
Not only will you find all sorts of gears, axles, motors, bearings etc (really cheap), but also fresnel lenses, lab coats, powerful lasers, prisms, switches, bombsights from WWII-era bombers, jacob's ladders, lenses for telescopes, microscopes, lab glassware and about a million other cool things. Often, the use of particular objects in their inventory is not clear, but they'll sell it to you anyway. It's really worth talking to the guys (all guys) who work there, because if you think you know some geeks, you haven't seen nothin' 'til you've seen these dudes. Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys would seem normal compared to these fellas. But nice? they're all really nice and helpful and probably have everything you need to make a dirty nuke in the back. Oh, they sell lots of protective gear, too, which is helpful.
They've got a website and will send you a catalog, but you've got to actually go into the place for the stuff you want (or call them and talk to one of the guys who work there). I'd put a link here, but I'm being called to dinner.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And if you're within 2 hours drive, their store [google.com] in West Chicago, IL is well worth the trip.
American Science and surplus in Chicago. (Score:2, Informative)
bikes? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen some great and complex stuff made from bike parts.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Check out the "directory" link at the bicycle collective website [bikecollectives.org] and see if there's one near you.
car scrapyards (Score:2, Informative)
is the glaringly obvious answer
although it depends on the size he wants
there'll be plenty of parts there - differential, drive shaft, prop shaft, gearbox, flywheel, starter motor, steering will all have parts he can use, and from the last time i was in a scrapper they'll be pretty cheap particularly if he goes for the older cars.
might need some dismantling though, which isn't easy on a rusting heap
Meccanno? (Score:2, Insightful)
Off the top of my head (Score:2, Interesting)
Spare bike parts. Should be cheap, strong enough for a couple hp, pretty standard. More chain drive than gear drive, but the idea is the same. Lots of variety in bearings.
An old self-propelled lawnmower should have a belt drive to satisfy your requirements as well.
Are blenders direct drive, or are they gear reduction? 500 watts is around 1 hp, so that could work too.
Mechanical. (Score:5, Funny)
He wants to keep this mechanical.
As opposed to...?
Magnetically stabilised plasma girders?
Holographical joints?
Fusion Axles?
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to have inexplicably skipped over four words in the sentence you quoted.
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to have inexplicably skipped over four words in the sentence you quoted.
That was intentional. I thought about add ing "...", but considered it unnecessary, as it doesn't affect my point.
What exactly makes electricly powered kinetic sculptures "unmechanical"?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What exactly makes electricly powered kinetic sculptures "unmechanical"?
Those were the four words that let you know that he meant purely mechanical, ie not electric/electronic. It's a perfectly common use of the term.
Pedantry is fun and all, but at a certain point you are just being disingenuous.
Contact a gear maker (Score:2)
Junkyard (Score:4, Informative)
Transmissions, differentials, and front wheel spindles on RWD cars ready for the crusher.
Torque... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Torque... (Score:5, Informative)
> 550 ft/lbs is one helluva lot of torque.
ft/lbs is not torque at all (torque comes in lb-ft). If it's anything it's something like linear feet per pound of string. However, the article says ft-lbs, not ft/lb. A ft-lb is a unit of work. Work per unit time is power. 550 ft-lb/sec is one horsepower.
Parent
smallparts.com (Score:3, Informative)
flea market (Score:3, Informative)
old clocks are chock full of brass gearing and bearings. steer clear of antique shops though, since you will definitely pay way to much for something you are planning on destroying anyway.
Also, kinex and lego mindstorms have nice stuff, but I think you are talking about much larger structures?
Bicycle repair shops come to mind for stuff larger than clockwork.
hobbyist organisations no doubt have resources to check. Check out Make magazine's forums for people who do what you are planning
http://makezine.com/community/ [makezine.com]
Dead copiers are a better bet. (Score:3, Informative)
Try a junk yard (Score:4, Informative)
If you are looking for parts try a junk yard. You may have to do some driving to find the right "kind" of junkyard. Some specialize in parts that can be re-used in vehicles as originally intended. These junkyards are expensive. Look for a yard in a small town or in the country. I've been to junkyards that will sell you stuff by how much you can carry or how much you can fit on a cart. These are the best because you can get a lot of stuff pretty cheap.
Bring a good set of gloves, make sure your tetanus shot is up to date, and have a ton of fun digging through the junk.
How about a bike shop? (Score:2, Interesting)
junkyard? (Score:3, Informative)
An automotive junkyard might be a good bet for some of that sort of stuff - not just transmission bits, there are plenty of other motors and gears (windows, starter, various pumps) you could strip parts from. You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Ur Doin It Rong (Score:3, Insightful)
You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Traditionally the form of a kinetic sculpture is determined by the parts available, not the other way around. The challenge is to make something great given a whole lot of stuff that's not. Then again, most artists are poor and good scroungers.
Idea: find an old factory being decommissioned and start stripping machines. Pay slightly more than scrap if you need to.
Steampunk supplies (Score:3, Informative)
McMaster-Carr (Score:2, Redundant)
Perhaps the greatest company in the world [mcmaster.com]. McMaster has a huge inventory, reasonable prices, quick delivery and an easy to use website. If you want gears, machinable material, welding supplies, or anything else a kinetic sculptor would need, you should find it there.
Golf kart parts (Score:2)
Reasonably heavy duty, cheap, and readily available.
Find your local heat treat shop. (Score:5, Interesting)
Your average heat treater is going to have gears and pieces that get screwed up during nitriding or other operations. Since you are doing sculptures, its quite possible you don't need the case hardening that a regular customer needs. See if you can find a shop that does a lot of pinion and sun gears for example, then offer to buy on the cheap things they can't fix in re-work. Since its a sculpture, you probably don't need to go custom on some of the sizes.
Surplus (Score:2)
Depends on size (Score:5, Insightful)
As others have written there are a several places to get good parts. Of course it depends on the size of the sculpture, and weight of the pieces.
I build pick and place robots for a living, excellent resources are always good to have.
Besides Granger, McMaster there is also:
Standard Din sizes, and also american
http://mdmetric.com/ [mdmetric.com]
another good one stock drive products
http://www.sdp-si.com/ [sdp-si.com]
And If you need to handle larger loads, as I expect your sculptures to need. Seek your local power distribution company (as in gear boxes).
This is one of many (Motion Industries)
https://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp [motionindustries.com]
for a large list click below
http://search.globalspec.com/productfinder/findproducts?query=gear%20box&se=ggka&setag=MOTN [globalspec.com]
check the KSR community (Score:5, Informative)
Look up Kinetic Sculpture Racing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_sculpture_race [wikipedia.org]
The guys who do this build wacky and weird human-powered contraptions. These are supposed to go on land, water, sand, and mud, and be only human-powered. (Some vehicles fail in one or more of these categories; but they can avoid being disqualified by providing sufficient bribes to the Kinetic Kops. In plain sight of all onlookers, of course.) Vehicles that can do all of the above, without any "pilots" leaving the vehicle to adjust things, get the "ACE Award" for good engineering.
One of my favorite kinetic sculpture vehicles is a behemoth that carries four people, each of whom provides power to one wheel, and one of whom has the steering wheel and brakes. I have also seen a vehicle that carried eight people, all powering a common drive train.
Anyway, these races have been happening for decades, and you can find the discussion lists where the KSR community discusses where to get parts, how to make things strong and reliable, etc.
For the glory!
steveha
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Google is your friend. There are so many different groups doing Kinetic Sculpture Races... do some searches, find their various web pages. If you live near one of the big races, you might be able to meet people in real life.
But what the heck, I did a few Google searches for you. Here's a few links:
How to Build a Kinetic Racing Sculpture [kinetickingdom.com]
Links from Kinetic Kingdom [kinetickingdom.com]
Resources from Kinetic Kensington (in Philadelphia) [kinetickensington.org]
Several of those web sites have mailing lists (maybe just for news of the specific race, mayb
Make your own (Score:5, Interesting)
Old motorbike gearboxes? (Score:3, Insightful)
And also bits of old garden machinery.
Big Blue Saw (Score:3, Interesting)