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Job and Internship Salary Comparisons?
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Nov 13, 2008 05:05 PM
from the who-makes-what? dept.
from the who-makes-what? dept.
spydabyte writes "I'm a current undergraduate at the Georgia Institute of Technology and have been getting offers for internships next summer. I was wondering if there is a source of information on intern markets or how a market's competitive salaries are. How do you know if you're getting a decent offer or you deserve more when you're entering a (personally) new market? Is there a definite source? Do you have your favorite? I know that many factors matter, as in location, previous experience, etc., but I think there's more to find out besides asking for my friends' current offers. If not internships, how about full time or careers? Any ideas?"
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glassdoor (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Translation:
We're tired of people coming to California and making fun of our horrendous driving skills, sushi addiction, goatees, and square-rimmed glasses.
Seriously though, I find it interesting that all the Californians want people from other states to get out and stop ruining their quirky state, while every other state wants the Californians to go home and stop mucking everything up wherever they live.
Why can't Californians and the rest of the country get along? Wasn't Rodney King from California? Why
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:glassdoor (Score:4, Insightful)
He feels unwelcome because he's not considered a citizen yet. He's here on a visa. What rights does he not have that I do? Honestly, not many.
He can't collect Social Security, though he's paying into it. Neither can I right now. Eventually, I'll be able to; so will he.
Medicare is not available to him, nor is it available to me. Eventually, I'll be old enough to make use of it; so will he.
I can rely on the police, firemen and ambulances when I need them. So can he.
I can speak my mind freely, so can he.
I can bear arms. I'm not sure where the law stands as far as him and, honestly, I'd hope we're not allowing people who are here on visa to carry weapons. Again, something he'll be able to do once he becomes a citizen.
Possibly no right to bear arms for a few years seems a small price to pay for a free MD PhD. Hell, I'd give up my right to own a firearm for 10 years if the US Government was going to put my through premed, med school and postmed courses for that period of time. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Other than that, he really has every right I do.
If you don't like the terms, you shouldn't have signed up. Quit taking more than you're paying in, bitching about it the whole while, pack up and go home.
You're more than welcome here if you're willing to abide by the terms you agreed to when you came here. If you have a problem with that, why are you here in the first place?
Do a 180 and appreciate that you actually have more of an advantage in this country right now than many, if not most, who were BORN here. Then, I'll welcome you to my country. Hell, do that and I'll do whatever I can to make your new life here the best it can be.
Parent
For full time jobs (Score:3, Informative)
If you're getting paid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the way it usually goes is that technical internships pay (I've not seen any that don't), and non-technical ones don't (some will give minimum wage). So I don't think "if they pay" is nearly and relevant as "if they hire you".
That being said, they're almost always ballpark $12/hr these days. Some will go as low as $10, and one company I knew used to pay $17+, but they since dropped to $12-ish as well. Either way, the pay's better than anything else, so don't worry about it; these things are mostly about resume building anyway.
One thing I will stress though (enough for it's own paragraph!) is to make sure the one you choose will have use for you. I've seen far too many interns twiddling their thumbs because they're poorly managed, and nobody wants to just sit there and kill time for a couple months. So make sure that the work is interesting and a priority (as much as one can expect for and intern) for the company. That's worth more than a couple extra bucks and hour.
Parent
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:4, Informative)
My internship was around $15/hr, and my wife's was $16-17. My job was the "they actually hired you to work" kind, my wife's was the "sit around and read wikipedia" kind. That seemed fairly standard for our area (Ohio) for a CS degree, from what I've gathered from my friends. That was... three years ago.
Probably varies HUGELY by geography.
Parent
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
At my company, interns who are freshmen and sophomores are paid at 50% of the salary of the position that they are filling. Juniors are paid at 60% and seniors are paid at 75%. We hire interns to fill "real" engineering positions. For example, in my area, if we have an open simulation engineer req and we hire an (usually a senior) intern to fill it for the summer, that intern will actually do the job of a simulation engineer. And, if the intern is from our local university, the job will usually continue
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:5, Informative)
I interned at IBM 10 years ago (did they make you take the stupid IQ test at the end of your internship too?)
I remember going through the job fair line with my friend who was a ChemE 3.9 GPA, his resume got put on the "we'll call you" pile. I had a 3.2 GPA, but because I had an IBM internship, I was immediately asked to come in and interview the next day while the recruiters were still in town. Interview was more like a recruitment pitch talking about the neat things they were doing in the fab, specifically we chatted about SOI since my background was Mat Sci with emphasis on semiconductor physics and processing.
That 6-month internship was worth more than 4 years of college in terms of getting a career. I also turned down an offer from IBM, but having solid experience at a recognized company opened a lot of doors.
Parent
well for an internship (Score:5, Insightful)
for an internship i'd say forget which pays you better. if you have multiple offers, get the one that you think will be better in the long run. IE they often hire interns full time, or they offer great networking capabilities, or which would be more challenging/fun/interesting.
Re:well for an internship (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed. Just like shouldn't didn't pick your college based on what's cheapest, you shouldn't pick an internship based on what pays best. You're doing both to boost your future earnings potential, not present earnings.
Networking and exposure to industry practices are far more important. Pick your internship based on these, and consider any pay a bonus.
Parent
don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed. Internships are there for looking impressive on your CV, not for making you rich. If you get paid, so much the better, but it's better to do something awesome and not get paid, than to get paid for doing something lame.
Parent
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree: this really depends on the field the person seeking the internship is entering, and whether or not that person is planning on graduate/postdoc studies leading to a career in academia. Certain areas of study (some of the engineering disciplines come to mind) pay very well for most of the positions available for doing very similar work, and it pays to look around. And as for those going to grad school long-term: getting a well-paying internship ahead of the stipend makes the bank account much less stressful to look at.
Then again, there's something to be said for actually enjoying the summer's (or semester's) work, and not everyone actually needs the money. So it really comes down to what's most important or necessary to the individual.
Parent
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't be so dismissive of someone with salary expectations. If they're expecting you to do some serious work, then they should be offering legitimate pay. Quitting a coop and finding a new one is a pain. If they're not going to give you serious work, they should at least be willing to pay you for wasting your time. Legitimate pay is a good way of gauging how serious they are about using your talents and Tech education.
I'd recommend the Coop program, spydabyte, over the Internship program. Better pay (from what I've seen), more opportunities for serious work (because you're coming back), you get to know more people in the company, and if you do it right, you can pretty much depend on having a job offer. The coop program is now only 3 semesters at Tech (of course you can keep going if you need the money, I'll be doing 5), so there's really no reason not to. Get to add more nice things to your resume, while you're at it.
Salary expectations-- My first coop company paid $16/hr a few years ago. Friend's coop last year was paying him $20/hr. Now I'm making $18/hr at my second coop. GE starts you at $17.
Don't forget-- YOU CAN NEGOTIATE. This is no different from any other job. Be bold about it. There aren't many students involved in the Coop program at Tech. You are in demand, ESPECIALLY if your GPA is at or above 3.0 (if you go to Tech).
Parent
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Internships are like modern apprenticeships. They are to gain experience working with a professional, preferably one as experience and respected in their field as possible. Its also extremely helpful if said professional has some talent at teaching.
If at all possible you should decide on an internship based on reports from people who have interned there previously that you respect, plus information on how well regarded in their field the person or company to be interning with is.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Take what you can get. (Score:5, Insightful)
For internships it is not about how much but what you will pick up. You can get paid say $15 with a big company but you just may be serving coffee. Or you can get $10 an hour as a smaller company and you are actually getting real work experience. Which may be the difference later on a starting real job out of college of $35,000 a year vs. $45,000 a year (depending on location and cost of living) Also check to see if the company is willing to hire you as a full paid employee after you graduate (with say preferential treatment) or you will have just the same opportunity as the rest.
Re:Take what you can get. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Take what you can get. (Score:4, Informative)
While you should stay away from slave labor called unpaid internships depending on your skill sets it may be a good proving ground when all else fails. Say you are a Liberal Arts Major trying for a Tech Job. a Free internship may prove that you know what you are doing and that Liberal Arts Degree shows your flexibility in many areas.
Parent
Re:Take what you can get. (Score:5, Informative)
I'd still go with serving coffee at the big company. You'll probably make better contacts at the bigger company, and you'll certainly have a more recognizable name on the resume. It's not what you know but who you know and being able to name-drop.
Most of the jobs I've ever gotten (or gotten very far through the interview process with) have been either through knowing the right person, not by having the right skills or the right experience. This is one of the things I wish I had known 15 years ago.
Parent
Re:Take what you can get. (Score:5, Interesting)
However a small company has more contacts then you think. Sometimes you can actually make much better contacts threw a small company then threw a large one. Say you worked at Microsoft you will be working in your small team of people who focus on that one job. In a small company as an intern you may be working with the clients some of them are actually quite high up on the scale. Where say Microsoft your contact will be with the other engineers on your team a small company you actually may get contacts with CEO's of more recognizable companies.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
This is a great point. An important question for any company you'll work for is, "How much exposure to the higher-ups will my work get me?"
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I'd still go with serving coffee at the big company. You'll probably make better contacts at the bigger company, and you'll certainly have a more recognizable name on the resume.
On top of that: Anybody who brings me coffee, I'll recommend. ;)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
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Yes the value for engineers has dropped. But the job has also gotten a bit easier. 1986 there was a lot more hand based math that needed to be done which can be done in a split second in excel. We have the internet to allow us to see what other ideas people though of out of the box. Also CAD and Modeling systems help us do hundreds/millions of tests allowing engineers to focus more on the engineering and not a lot of the humanly tough grunt work. That said Engineering is still loss a lot of its value unpr
More important (Score:4, Insightful)
Money is nice and I can appreciate that a broke college student would want to maximize that, but that's short-term thinking. I would focus on:
1) What sort of industry relationships can I foster. If there is one lesson I've learned, it's that the most critical factor in success is who you know. Both in finding future employment and mentoring relationships.
2) What skills can I learn *that will look on a resume*. New grads always complain about, "They want experience, but how can I get experience when they won't hire me???" Well, this is how. You want as much experience doing real work as possible.
Honestly, working for free is worth it if you can get really great situation that fulfills #1 and #2. Be patient. The paychecks will come. Take advantage of your opportunities first.
Re: (Score:2)
Be patient. The paychecks will come.
I'm in a Ph.D. program you insensitive clod!
Hard to say. (Score:5, Informative)
Cost of Living comparison sites [bestplaces.net] are good. That'll give you an idea of the comparison between two jobs in different places...One may be offering 50% more, but that 50% more may actually be a net loss depending on the cost of living.
Demographic information can give you average salaries, but you MUST weigh that in terms of the cost of living. Don't take a job for the national average salary in a city where the cost of living is twice the national average. You can get lots of salary information on Google [google.com].
I'd say there is no definite source. You're going to have to weigh and consider what you need, and what the job is worth to you. Don't be afraid to take less for a job that has great experience/training opportunities, and don't be afraid to ask for more if the job looks like hell on earth.
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My Rule (Score:3, Insightful)
"Don't trade your time for money. Trade your time for experience. Then trade the experience for more money!" -Me.
Don't look only at dollars. Don't even look to who is going to value you most as an employee/intern. Look to fill that experience gap that you and everyone else has coming out of school.
Maybe I'm alone on this (Score:2, Insightful)
But I would worry less about what you'll get paid as an intern and more about what kind of experience you'll be getting and networking/employment opportunities after the internship is over. Whatever you would make as an intern would be a pittance anyway, so don't pass over long-term prospects just to make a couple hundred dollars extra.
Great websites (Score:2, Informative)
For fulltime jobs, check salary.com [salary.com] and glassdoor.com [glassdoor.com] for good salary information. For salary.com, you can enter in a job title (e.g. software engineer II) and zip code; the salary range results are pretty accurate. When you move to take a fulltime job, be sure to check the cost-of-living adjustment calculator there too.
If you are looking for an internship, then I recommend you not be so concerned with money. The goal of an internship is get real-world experience and do a good enough job so the manager wi
Paid for an intern job? (Score:3, Insightful)
I went to college a few years back, in the nineties, and I didn't get paid for an intern job. Neither did any of my classmates. Is that something companies do now?
Anyway, you are at the beginning of your career, so I wouldn't worry about the money for an intern. Intern with the most interesting job at the most interesting company, even if you have to do it for free. Then you will be off to a good start and learn something interesting.
As far as salaries, you can look at Dice.com, ComputerJobs.com, Monster.com, realrates.com etc and look to see "around" what people are paying.
But these are just ballpark figures. Its all in the negotiation and the what the company your working for is willing to pay ( and how bad they need your skills ). I've seen poor saps making less than 50K coding C++ with years of experience. And I've seen complete idiots pulling in 100 dollars an hour or more.
When you do look for that first job, negotiate good, interview a lot, be professional, and get as many offers as you can. Then you can pick and choose and have more leverage.
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Same here, I got paid next to nothing for an internship. The total came out to less than minimum wage, for the amount of work per week that I put in. If I recall correctly, I put in 30-40 hours a week and got $5.15 an hour for 10 hours a week. However, I supplemented my income and paid for college, by washing dishes at Subway, and later on, wai
doesn't matter (Score:2)
As an intern, the experience you get matters WAY more than the pay you might receive. Ignore compensation, go for the interesting jobs or the well-respected companies regardless of pay.
My internship: (Score:3, Insightful)
After six months, I was promoted to full time status at $46,000 per year. My salary has since increased to $70,000 per year.
Note that this is in the Midwest, where the cost of living is quite low.
Bureau of Labor Statistics (Score:4, Informative)
Intern==slave (Score:3, Funny)
Talk to career services (Score:3, Informative)
Georgia Tech's "Career Services" was very useful when I was there. In contrast, the co-op office was horrible. I'd definitely make an appointment with career services and talk to them about this.
Don't worry about the internship pay (Score:3, Insightful)
What really matters with the internship is the professional experience you get. Get as much of it as you can while still getting your degree. My wife did four summers of internships and when she graduated, she was rated as having 2-3 years of professional work experience by her employer. The result was that they actually took her application pretty seriously and offered her good pay since she wasn't, strictly speaking, "entry level" anymore.
I got paid $7.50/hour starting out and ended up making $10/hour after a few months at my internship, which lasted 2 years through my university. That internship is what actually got me my first job; my employer just ignored my low GPA and focused on the fact that I had been interning as a software developer for 2 years for my university on a research project.
Bottom line is, be their bitch, as much as you can tolerate it. Let them task you with all sorts of technical work, even if it's making you work long, unpaid hours because when you graduate, it'll give you more leverage with a serious employer to demand more pay out of college.
My Experience (Score:2, Insightful)
That said, it has been my experience that some companies believe that compensation is great in it of itself and others believe that they should pay you and keep you happy now so you will stick with them later.
A good example of this is an interview I once had where the interviewer kept pushing that "this is a paid internship, so it's very competitive". I sat there thinking that e
Paid Vs Unpaid (Score:3)
I see a lot of posts above that basically state that internships are more about what you can learn than they are about how much you get paid. I agree with this to a certain extent, but I gotta say that getting paid is an absolute must for me. I realize that companies are under no obligation to take on interns (much less paid interns), especially with the way the economy is, but on the other hand interns can be a cheap source of labor, and if companies are willing to pay your interns a decent amount (that is, below what an actual developer makes but well above minimum wage) then everyone involved can benefit, especially if the internship turns into a full-time position.
That said I find the idea of a non-paying internship to be ridiculous. My time is just as valuable as anyone else's and if a company doesn't respect me enough to pay me for the time I spend working for them then I wouldn't have anything to do with them. It is simply condescending to argue that a company is providing hands-on experience so they don't need to provide monetary compensation as well. It is to the company's (and the industry's) benefit that they hire interns and actually pay them a wage as it provides an incentive and a means for new entrants to earn the experience that companies demand entry-level worker to have.
I'd also like to point out that it is much more common now for students to be "non-traditional," meaning that they don't live on campus, work their way through college at full or part-time jobs and are either starting families or already have them. I'm one of these students (my daughter is two months old as of Monday), and the idea of taking a non-paid position (even with hands-on experience) is simply unthinkable. Companies should understand how the student population is evolving and should take these facts into account when considering whether or not to pay their interns.
INterships are about (Score:4, Insightful)
contacts.
Which company is more likely to ahve contacts for your career goal?
Forget the intern salary numbers. Keep your eye on your end game.