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Computer For a Child?
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Nov 27, 2008 09:39 AM
from the start-them-young dept.
from the start-them-young dept.
jameswing writes "I am thinking of buying a UMPC, such as an Eee PC or a Wind for my son, and wanted to get input from Slashdot. He is almost 2 and really curious about our computers, and anything electronic. I want to foster this in him, without having him on my desktop or laptop. I also don't really like the idea of getting one of those cheap 'Learning Laptops' that have a tiny screen and are really limited.
Does anybody have one that they use with their children? How sturdy is it? Will it stand up to a 2-year-old? If not, what are good alternatives?
What are your thoughts? Suggestions?"
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Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Your son is not a prodigy. At "nearly 2" he's about ready for playing "What sound does this animal make?" games. With you though, not with some electronic babysitter.
This question is nonsensical. Come back in 3 years, and we can talk.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
A toy laptop with only a spelling game on it is not limited if the kid is unable to spell, is it?
Wait until he can hold a pencil and write his name with it. Then consider getting him a computer.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Informative)
There are a few games for OS X designed for
Baby Safe II [bestshareware.net]
# Teaches the numbers and the alphabet with spoken words as the toddler presses keys.
# Displays pictures of flowers and animals at random or when the space key is pressed.
# Displays geometric shapes at random and when the mouse is clicked.
Baby Banger [goodeast.com]
Baby Banger fills the screen with a large white window where randoms sounds and shapes are displayed for young children to look at and identify. It can even speak the name of the shapes being displayed. The source code is included in the download.
I'm sure there are Linux equivalents.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Baby Banger [goodeast.com]
They should really consider getting a new name for their app...
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed. I would suggest "Baby Beater" as a suitable alternative.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Please forgive me my heinous crime of threadjacking, but I can't possibly reply to everyone so I'm just gonna aim for the top of the comments page.
This question has provoked a flood of condescending "OMG, YOU WANT TO LOCK YOUR TODDLER IN A ROOM WITH A COMPUTER AND NEVER INTERACT WITH HIM EVER? LEARN TO PARENT, SHITFACE" type of comments, and they're dumb.
Relax, guys. The OP didn't say anything about the level of involvement he wants to maintain with his kid's computer activities, he didn't ask you which laptop would make the best babysitter, he just asked about sturdiness and kid-friendliness.
For all you know, his plan is to do all of the hands-on stuff that you're lecturing him on, play some blinky, noisy sheep-goes-baa games together, and he just doesn't want to clean burp goo out of his work laptop. Maybe his plan is to gradually expand the computer activities as the kid's skills and autonomy grow.
I have noticed that Slashdotters, while not being an especially baby-having demographic themselves, are just full of haughty, authoritative-sounding advice about what kids need. Am I detecting some psychological projection here, or what?
Parent
MOD PARENT UP (Score:5, Insightful)
The sort of response you are chastising is very typical of ask slashdot responses. And there is nothing wrong with using the computer (or the TV) as a babysitter now and then for a short time, in the same way that you give a child a toy to play with by themselves.
If you spent every waking moment with your child you would both go insane, and you'd never get anything else done - meals still have to be cooked, dishes have to be cleaned, clothes have to be washed, etc, and everyone needs a few minutes to chill out and relax for a few minutes.
Obviously if you expect your child to spend every waking minute in front of a TV or on a computer then something is wrong, but the OP never said that, and never even implied that.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Informative)
The Boohbah [boohbah.tv] website also has this kind of stuff. It's a flash app you should put in full screen mode. There are more [pbskids.org] sites like this if you look around, as every tv show has a web page nowadays.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
he's interested in anything that goes "ping"
Well, teach him how to use ping then...
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Well, teach him how to use ping then...
To be fair, event adults can be impressed with a a machine that go ping [youtube.com]
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
The parent and GP are totally correct. A 2 year old needs GUIDED learning, not "here's a small computer, go play".
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was a child we had an old machine my dad had salvaged from the skip at work, when I was about 3 I started playing a simple maths game, I don't know whether it was my sister or parents who first put me playing it but I remember the game well.
It had a list of different games with counting and memory stuff, the one I remember best was the addition game.
It printed up something like "5+3=" in big primary coulors on a blue background with 5 baloons below the 5 and 3 baloons bellow the 3 etc. Hell the answer would never be more than 9 so there was only a handful of different sums.
It had a fairly awful voice synth which would speak the question and and then if you got it correct you'd get one of 4 or 5 silly complements "That's fantastic!" "great!" etc etc
Perfect for kids in other words.
It kept score in the bottom right corner with how many answers you'd got correct.
I'd sit in front of it for hours enthralled. My mother relates how I used to proudly march into the kitchen at age 3 and 4 and announce "I've got half a hundred!" "I've got a hundred!" etc
I'd love to find a copy of this or some updated version with better sound as it really was fantastic. Hell I'd be half tempted to write my own version of it if I ever had kids of my own.
I learned math before I ever learned how to read or write with a pencil. It was dull in school when we were being taught basic math and I was bored because the class was trying to understand the concept of plus and minus. But it put me ahead in math and once you're ahead it's easy to stay ahead.
I owe a great deal to that game and my family for sitting me in front of it. If anyone knows what this is called or where to find it I'd love to know who the dev was so I can thank them.
At the same time I wish my dad had sat down with me at a young age and taught me how to code a little.
He tended to hand me manuals which while fine for students tends to be a bit of a hurdle when you don't understand most of the words on the first page and get discouraged.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
My ex-girlfriend has a daughter (several, actually). Back when we were together and the daughter was 4 or 5, she would sit there, hit keys at random and then I had to pronounce what she had just typed. She (and I, I suppose) had a lot of fun that way. That was *her* idea of a computer game. Then she started reconfiguring Windows 98 by hitting random key combinations. That got old fast.
I can't believe the o.p. is serious. No-one wants to tie an almost-2-year-old to a computer. Someone is having fun seeing how the Slashdot crowd react to something that crazy, seeing if anyone takes it seriously. Bingo.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think it was necessary to be that rude to the guy. Maybe his child *IS* a prodigy. You don't know.
That said, 2 is a bit young to be buying a proper laptop for. Although a netbook would be a fine choice if you really think he is ready. I know I started showing my kids how to use the computer at around two, and by 3 they could use the mouse. My kids are hardly prodigies (actually, they both have Autism Spectrum Disorder) but now they can both use the PC with no problem. I've found the Zac Browser [zacbrowser.com] to be a great help, as it limits the options kids have and basically turns the PC into a toy they can play with.
I would suggest trying that first. Download it, and sit with your child using it. (Hand-over-hand on the mouse at first.) You will find it to be great bonding time for you and your child, and the bonus is that they learn to do some basic things on the PC, and eventually it will be a nice, kid-safe method of entertainment.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:4, Informative)
My kids are hardly prodigies (actually, they both have Autism Spectrum Disorder) but now they can both use the PC with no problem. I've found the Zac Browser [zacbrowser.com] to be a great help, as it limits the options kids have and basically turns the PC into a toy they can play with.
My son is on the spectrum too, I made a Linux distro for him with some nice open source games. Check it out at: http://quinncoincorporated.org/ [quinncoincorporated.org]
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
He's not curious about your computers, he's just trying to do whatever it is you're doing. If you were reading a newspaper he'd be "interested in newspapers". If you were peeling potatoes he'd be "interested in starchy tubers".
From the sound of it you need to spend less time surfing the web and devote more time to the young person that YOU brought into the world.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
So short sighted!
Just think of the uber-mecha-geek that he could turn out by teaching the child so early on that:
1. Computers are more interesting than people (including you)
2. Being interested in the computer is the only way to make your father happy.
Social dysfunction and extreme geekhood here we come!
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:4, Interesting)
IBM Model M keyboard
Let him try and break it. I bet you could even vomit into those repeatedly without them needing much more than a wash to fix.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Funny)
I bet he's not an AOL either.
Parent
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
C'mon...this is crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:C'mon...this is crazy! (Score:5, Funny)
The BMW M5 has a very simple computer system, just a single turn and push knob. Easy to learn.
Parent
DEFINATELY the OLPC (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a first day Give One Get One (G1G1) buyer of the OLPC, and although it certainly doesn't match the specs or convenience of the newer UMPCs, it is amazingly good at what it is designed for - an easy to use and super durable computer for children. Two is pretty young, they need to know not to smash the screen, but aside from that the OLPC has an excellent interface. There really isnt any competition. They just restarted the OLPC G1G1 on Amazon, but you can probably find one at a decent price on eBay - dont be in a rush and you'll get a good deal. You'll find it fun to play with too!
Gen Two (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's get realistic here. The kid doesn't read or even understand what the different keys on the keyboard are at this age. A conventional computer won't teach him that. Maybe you should set the bar within his reach for the next couple years. A toy computer that presents him with challenges that are appropriate for his cognitive level will be far more educational.
Getting ahead of yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Two-year-olds are not old enough to understand how to treat things gently. I don't think it's possible to make a laptop that can stand up to a two-year-old unless you encased the whole thing (including the keyboard) in about a two-inch thick layer of plastic. Two-year-olds throw terrible tantrums. They're known for it. They'll often smash things up when they're angry. When my step daughter was two and upset, she ripped every page out of Blueberries For Sal. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. Whether or not he's curious about computers, age two is too soon. Wait, at least, until he gets to an age where he doesn't throw tantrums (which will probably be a little before age three if you don't make a practice of giving in when he throws tantrums and will probably be about age fifteen otherwise).
At three, he'd at least be less likely to break it quickly. Personally, I'd probably wait until age four or so since he's more likely to have the needed cognitive skills to do things like recognize symbols at that age. But regardless of whether you wait until age three or age four, "almost two" is significantly too early for a computer.
Two is tough (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Two is tough (Score:5, Interesting)
Before kids can read, any "conventional" gui (I don't care if it is KDE/Gnome/Windows/Mac) is both going to train the kids to ignore dialog boxes and/or drive parents to distraction with questions. That's why (in part) OLPC do the Sugar user interface: our target is kids who are in the process of learning to read.
It's also why the OLPC XO-1 is much, much more rugged than conventional laptops.
Parent
Wait until he can READ! Unbelievable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wait until he can READ! Unbelievable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because it sounds like he is parenting for his own gratification by trying to force a "Mini-Me" identity upon his son instead of letting the child develop in a normal progression. It's disturbing.
Parent
Along the same lines... (Score:5, Informative)
I have a nephew around the same age (slightly over two). He loves playing with my Nintendo DS and Mario 64 on the Wii (which, of course, he doesn't quite know how to control yet, but the freedom to just run around is fun even to him).
What would be a good portable I could get him that would be more his age? I don't think he's a prodigy or anything, I just want to get him something fun.
The universal gift. (Score:5, Insightful)
--
Lost you job? Keep one eye open on craigslist.com http://www.bigattichouse.com/oneeyeopen.html [bigattichouse.com]
Re:The universal gift. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Don't buy a new machine for the kid. (Score:5, Interesting)
My daughter who is almost 3 has been really interested in electronics as well. I picked up an old used laptop (I think it's a Pentium III 800 or something) that someone was giving away. I loaded it up with Debian and installed GCompris. She absolutely loves it - and GCompris is great. Problem is (like most kids her age) she picks it up to move it and drops it, tries to forcefully "integrate" her other toys with it, occasionally spills something on the keyboard... you know - normal 2 year old stuff.
Unless you've got the cash to not care about your kid wrecking and mucking the thing up in 6 months of use - I say load linux on an old used beater. The kid doesn't know the difference.
Don't do it. Not yet. (Score:5, Funny)
I learned to read with that age, which was considered a prodigy in my city (and a freak, BTW, in equal proportions).
I really dug into encyclopedias, and was very interested in science. Until I stole a book from a dad's friend.
It was COBOL. I was 4. Now I'm a sad CS teacher finishing my ph.D. in high-performance computing. And I have 12 euros in my bank account right now.
Let him live. And when time comes, guide him to a law school.
Re:Don't do it. Not yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Naw - get him interested in one of the trades - that's where the real money is. Start an apprenticeship right out of high school and by the time his buddies have graduated with their law degrees and a pile of debt he could own his own plumbing business and be bringing it serious coin.
Parent
I have a 3 year old (Score:5, Interesting)
he says he's going to 'check his email' and sits down at the computer. i dont know where he got that from. not me, cause i never say something like 'ima check my email'
then he proceeds to remove keys from the keyboard. he's gotten quite good at this, even employing other objects as a lever to pop the keys off. i then find them scattered about the house, in his mouth, outside, in the toilet, in the refrigerator...
if you have a child of this age, the only computers that are going to stand up to them are made by fisher price etc.
i don't think it would be worth it until about 5 at the earliest
Fish (Score:5, Funny)
Give the 2 year old a fish & you have fed him for today.
Teach him how to fish & you have fed him for life.
Why buy him a computer. Take him to Frys or something.
Let him pick out the parts & make his own computer.
Once he is done, point him to one of the Linux sources - he
can build his binaries & install it.
Not an UMPC! (Score:4, Insightful)
An Asus EeePC or an MSI Wind are not to be considered UMPC. The concepts are different. UMPC are overgrown palm devices (or shrunken tablets, depending how you see it), with a touchscreen, and an emphasis on watching/listening media. Hence the name. They are usually quite expensive, do not have a normal keyboard or lack one completely - you are supposed to use the touchscreen for that, and since you are not expected to type a lot, that should be ok.
The category you are talking about should be called netbooks. They are notebooks which are smaller, cheaper, and slower than a typical notebook. Most of all, they are very portable without the price premium associated with an ultraportable notebook. The points here are price, form-factor, and intended purpose. Your typical netbook has a (smallish) notebook keyboard, perhaps not so much storage, but it will let you do - and expects you to - all the things you do with a normal notebook, providing you can put up with the small screen and keyboard.
, Ok, I will stop being a dick now and answer your question. Since so many people told you not to get any kind of computer, I won't do the same, but... anyways, consider an OLPC machine. It is supposed to be more sturdy, and the Sugar interface is (IMHO) a great way to teach children what computers are all about without being tied to the dominant GUI/OS.
That said, no matter how gifted your child is, he is still a 2 year old and so he is bound to shred the computer to little pieces. And eat them. So either get the cheapest one, or get a very sturdy one.
Spend time with your child... (Score:4, Insightful)
Talk a lot, play and bond, and let it learn directly from you. Computer is not a substitute for parenting.
That said, once your child is ready and interested get HP 50G programmable graphing calculator and let it master it! (RPN and simple but powerful programming constructs are available).
The device is still small and capable, but there is nothing like the satisfaction of knowing how it truly works.
Computers of today are too abstract and too separated from the metal, and you can't really feel you intimately know it any more (you know that feeling we had back in our childhood when we knew our Commodore 64's ROM addresses and functions they do. You don't get that any more).
The more important questions is... (Score:4, Funny)
Just imagine that proud moment in only a few years when he's asking you about Natalie Portman and hot grits! Or when he wake's you in the middle of the night because he clicked on something expecting to see a goat. Good times! And why wait when you can get him started now?
he's too young (Score:4, Insightful)
give him a break... for a couple more years...
and btw. he will always end up on your laptop (even if you give him 10 alternative computers to play with) since forbidden fruit is always the sweetest...
Get him a damn book (Score:4, Insightful)
Because a computer is pretty limited for them until s/he is able to read. Reading to your child from a book is a great way to not only socialize and bond with them, as well as getting their imagination active.
He might still want on your computer, which is fine, but find something simple for him to do (you might consider having a look at http://virtualapple.org/ [virtualapple.org] for some old, but good games.) and put him in your lap while he does it so you can help guide him, and keep your equipment from getting destroyed. No 2 year old should be on a computer alone.
Re:Too early for a "real" PC (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Too early for a "real" PC (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Too early for a "real" PC (Score:4, Insightful)
HEY! She could swallow those small keys and choke to death.
Do you want to be charged with inadvertent manslaughter charges?
My 3 1/2 yr old son pried off EACH key of my iBook a year ago when left alone with it. I mean every single damn key on the keyboard was on the floor when i entered.
Thankfully he has NEVER eaten anything not fed by me or his mom (no off-floor eating, etc). So he was safe.
Imagine if he put those things in his mouth?
NEVER EVER do that again, Understand? Unless you are planning to get rid of your daughter (you can drop her off at a Nevada hospital, you dumbass) Sorry am angry, but i still remember my scene vividly.
Parent
Re:Too early for a "real" PC (Score:5, Funny)
Parent