How to Fight Name Scraping Scammers?

CurtMonash writes "I was ego-surfing the other day, and was surprised to discover that I was listed as a member of an on-line dating service. It turns out these scamsters generate web pages for lots of (FirstName, LastName) combos, each claiming that the named individual is a member of their service. I posted about this, and discovered other people were upset, at least one had lost interest in a guy because he appeared to be a member, and so on. I've since followed up with lessons learned, a big one being that everybody should have a visible web presence. But frankly, the ideas I've come up with for fighting this kind of reputation scam seem fairly weak. Do Slashdotters have any better ideas?"

Great!

[ArcherB (796902)]

"I was ego-surfing the other day, and was surprised to discover that I was listed as a member of the an on-line dating service.

So, did you get any hits?

Web presence?

[DogDude (805747)]

It would be nice if the author explained why he thinks that everybody should have a web presence. I don't buy it. I don't have a web presence at all (none of that Myspace/Facebook crap-ola), and I've been pretty successful in staying off the radar that way.

Re:Web presence?

[kalirion (728907)]

What he's saying is that now some sleazy site might generate your name and if it's uncommon enough you will have web presence that you probably won't like.

Re:Web presence?

[ShaunC (203807)]

It would be nice if the author explained why he thinks that everybody should have a web presence.

I suspect the idea is that if you maintain your own website, people who are Googling you at random will come across that first, and may not pay attention to the shady results at all. Your name is essentially your very own brand; might as well try to paint it in a decent light.

Re:Web presence?

[gnick (1211984)]

How does the author know it was about him and not some other schmuck with his name?

I just searched Google for "gnick" - A moniker that, I thought, would be rather obscure. Of the first 100 hits, 1 related to me - A long expired digg post. What was strange, though, was that I had to click through a few others because they sure sounded like me, but turned out to be somebody else.

I've also "ego-surfed" (a new term to me) using my given name. I found a lot related to me, some immigration stuff about my great-grandfather (with whom I share a first and last name) who brought my grandfather with him when he moved to the US, some of my publications, some publications that I had to peruse to be sure that I hadn't been cited without permission (somebody else with my fairly unusual name apparently works in a very similar, obscure field in California), and one publication where I had in fact been cited without my permission.

Long story short - Even with first hand knowledge I don't know whether my web presence relates to me or not without some in-depth investigation.

Re:Web presence?

[chimpo13 (471212)]

Being named Dave Smith has its benefits. About 15 years ago, I got pulled over, and the cop was laughing about how I had a drivers license in another state, an arrest warrant in another state that I hadn't been too, and half a dozen addresses in California. He still gave me the ticket. I wonder how many Dave Smiths I show up as now. Maybe I'll go outside and do donuts until a cop comes along.

Security through familiarity is why I won't move away from 123 Anystreet.

Re:Web presence?

[B'Trey (111263)]

I'm assuming that the point is to make sure that people who search for your name (from a perspective boss to a perspective boy/girlfriend) can find the truth. You can also add a note pointing out that a scummy site has falsely used your name.

Re:Web presence?

[sconeu (64226)]

I had the same question. I've been actively trying to *REDUCE* my web presence, at least with my real name and email.

I've been caught...

[courteaudotbiz (1191083)]

I've been caught by my girlfriend... she received a message on an online dating service (WTF!!!) from a guy searching for a Fu** friend. This guy was *ME*. Someone stole my picture off Facebook, and sent it to my girlfriend pretending *HE* was *ME*. Maybe I should just deactivate my Facebook account if I want to keep my girlfriend. Or maybe I should prevent her from having an account on an online dating service!

Re:I've been caught...

[Psmylie (169236)]

Little of column A, little of column B.

Re:I've been caught...

[sm62704 (957197)]

This was going to b ethe topic of my journal today, but now it won't be. There's a writer for the St Louis Post Dispatch that encourages looking up prospective dates on various sites. This is what was actually finished (it was going to be a long journal)

I was noodling around the various newspapers, and since I'm originally from the St. Louis arew I checked out the Post Dispatch. In it I ran across an item called The Data Diva says: Check your date out before you go out [stltoday.com].

This nerdy looking (but not bad looking) lady, Jaimi Dowdell, seems to think that you should google your dates. I think her tinfoil hat is on too tight.

Speaking of tinfoil hats, soon you might need one for real [newscientist.com], at least if you're going to demonstrate in front of the capitol.

But I digress. Ms. "Diva" may google, but she obviously doesn't wiki, as a diva is a singer. Anyway, she writes

That's right, friends. I background my dates
I may not have figured out how to find Mr. Right, but I can assure you that information about Mr. Wrong is everywhere. You just have to know where to look.

And I'm not just talking to the ladies. Guys, we've got closets, too. With a little work, you can get past her shoes and wardrobe to see if any skeletons are rattling around.

Right about now, some of you are probably thinking I'm just a little creepy.

Not just creepy, but seriously delusional.

Each time you buy a house, register to vote, list your phone number, etc. you leave a trail containing bits and pieces of your life. The Web site ZabaSearch crawls the online world picking up this trail from sites containing public records and other personal information.

So I looked up this zabasearch to see if I could find myself. I plugged in "steve mcgrew", my meatspace name.

No, I'm not the comedian from Colorado. There were hits; lots and lots of hits. So I narrowed it down to Illinois.

Lots of hits. Lots and lots of hits. Stephanie McGrew. Serena McGrew. Sharon McGrew. So I narrowed it down further and did an in-browser search for "Springfield". Finally it found me - from eight fucking years ago! It listed my age correctly, but had my address on reservoir. I moved out of that rented house in 2000 when I bought the house on 7th street. The house on 7th street I diaried about extensively on K5 after my marriage came apart.

There is some SERIOUSLY bad data on this site! I clicked "images" and there were a lot of images. Images of people I never met, not one of them me. This despite the fact that I've uplodaed several pics of myself to various places, including my old now-defunct domain mcgrew.info.

The comedian from Colorado was prominent in the photos. There's one of him with Dolly parton.

It says it has a home address and phone number, which it will gladly cough up for a price.

Nope. The only phone I have is a Net 10 prepaid phone. You're not going to find its number on the internet. The search site is a scam; I should sue them for slander, since it thinks I'm the comedian from Colorado, who had the web site "Steve McGrew's White Trash World".

It says it knows my income and home value. Not likely! Not if it thinks I still live on Reservoir Street.

Personally, I'd have to be a LOT harder up to go out with the sort of freak who would investigate someone before dating them, and someone dumb enough to think that you could actually learn anything about a person from the internet.

Re:I've been caught...

[sm62704 (957197)]

If your girlfriend has an account at a dating service, you don't have a girlfriend, you have a fuckbuddy. Nothing wrong with that, just be sure to use a condom.

Re:

[rickb928 (945187)]

*I* have an online dating account, actually more than one. They are all dormant.

I keep one because it's a charter account, from when they were free - lifetime free for me, and even though I don't use it, it's stupid pride. I'll get rid of it sometime soon probably. Some of the others are actually links to this profile, as they share with a lot of other sites (no, they *run* the other sites under other commercial names).

I don't have a Facebook or MySpace account. These are just too insecure, as much anecd

Libel

[John Hasler (414242)]

> Do Slashdotters have any better ideas?

File libel lawsuits.

Re:Libel

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the better route would be to use a completely unique handle to represent yourself online. For instance, I spent 12 years in the military as both a commanding officer and a chef. Did I mention I was stationed in Mexico? So, when I left the service, I decided to use the handle "CmdrTaco" while browsing my favorite dating and BSDM sites...

WHAT THE HELL!

Someone is posing as me [okcupid.com]

"October 20, 2007 - Slashdot 10th Anniversary, with CmdrTaco (1)"

Damn him. He has hip glasses and a sexy goatee! How the hell can I compare to that!

I need to track this CmdrTaco bastard down so I can have a better chance on the dating scene.

(captcha=disclaim)

Re:Libel

[I_am_the_cheese (1264298)]

You are being nibbled on by a thousand ants. Shooting them off one at a time is probably not your best option.

Problem will solve itself.

[Vellmont (569020)]

the ideas I've come up with for fighting this kind of reputation scam seem fairly weak.

How about people not believing everything they hear from a source they know nothing about? There's no general solution to the problem of people spreading unfounded rumors other than people being more skeptical of new untested information sources. This will take time as people come to realize that "the internet" isn't a single source of information.

Re:Problem will solve itself.

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

This will take time as people come to realize that "the internet" isn't a single source of information.

Yet, the World Wide Web is accessible as if it were a single source of information. That's what confuses people. All they seem to know is they open up "The Internet" on their PC by clicking the little blue "e".

Re:

[RobinH (124750)]

What I think is a bigger concern is the number of employers who will now Google your name before hiring you. They could easily be fooled into thinking that these are legitimate search results.

Names are not unique

[Bogtha (906264)]

What makes you think this is some type of scam, and not merely somebody with the same name as you?

No, just because you have an unusual name, it doesn't mean you are the only one with it. I have a very unusual name too. I've never even met anybody with the same surname that wasn't a member of my immediate family. I've googled my own name; I'm the only person with my name that has a web presence. But when a website was launched to check how unique your name is [yournotme.com], I discovered that there are at least two other people with my name in my country alone. If I registered on a dating site, those two people would probably feel the same about me.

Unless there's something actually linking you personally to this site, like a photo or bio, I don't see any basis for calling this a scam. Your name is not unique enough to be your property.

Re:Names are not unique

[querist (97166)]

I hate to say it, but I am not so sure about that site you listed.

I just checked my name and it says I don't exist.

Well, that's OK, except that the site you listed is in the UK.
My family came from the UK.
My surname has 6 pages in the Cardiff phone book.
My given name is a VERY common man's given name in Wales.

In other words, I find it VERY difficult to believe that there is no one else with my given name / surname combination in the UK.

The "You do not exist" message is rather amusing, though, and good for a laugh.

Re:Names are not unique

[damburger (981828)]

Well, its probably because the site in questions on deals with human beings, and isn't catered to the average Welshman's *cough* unique *cough* tastes.

Re:

[Bogtha (906264)]

That's interesting. The site has been around for a while, and it's based on electoral roll data from the year 2000. These genealogy people [ancestry.com] seem to think that it's legit, if a little inaccurate, giving numbers in the same vicinity as other sources. It's certainly given consistent results over the years. This is a similar service for USA data [howmanyofme.com], and it gives similar results (rare names give low numbers, common names give high numbers).

You didn't put an asterisk in the first name field did you? You don't

Re:Names are not unique

[L4t3r4lu5 (1216702)]

But when a website was launched to check how unique your name is [yournotme.com]

Is anybody else horrified by that domain name?

[/grammarnazi]

Re:

[Chris Mattern (191822)]

Well, according to Bill Keane, a "notme" is a little ghost-like
figure, that little kids find handy for blaming things on.

Oh, please...

[clang_jangle (975789)]

I've since followed up with lessons learned, a big one being that everybody should have a visible web presence

I strongly disagree with that conclusion. There are already too many people with cringe-worthy web presences. Besides, most reasonable people know better than to believe everything they read.

There are arguments for his conclusion.....

[King_TJ (85913)]

Sure, a lot of people aren't very good with writing or page layout, and wind up with gaudy, ugly web "presences". But I *also* put a lot of that blame on some of the "social networking" sites that most people turn to these days to create their pages.

I consider MySpace the biggest contributor to the problem. They may be VERY well known, but it seems like it's difficult NOT to create a cluttered mess out of your profile there! Even small businesses and rock bands trying to use them for some free publicity

Common Names are like that too...

[Penguinisto (415985)]

My name is fairly common (last name is Miller) - there's roughly 4 of us in the company I work for (out of 95k employees), and there's about forty of me w/ the same first/last name combo (with various differences in middle names and etc.) in the metro area phone book.

It's not just online, either - I remember awhile when some idiot collection agency kept bugging me over some other guy's debt, because we happened to share the same first/last name combo. I tried to tell them this repeatedly, then finally out of frustration told 'em: "see you in court, idiot!" It never came to fruition, and my credit record never reflected it *shrug*

I guess that's why I never really worried if I see my name online - chances are it's not me anyway.

/P

From the Linked Blog

[sabre86 (730704)]

In case you didn't actually read her linked blog, the girl who supposedly decided not to pursue someone because she was on JLove apparently did so because she thought he was Jewish. In fact, she makes the rather ironic statement:

Hmmm. Hot Jewish single guy on one hand or accepting the Jesus as my Lord and Savior? Sigh.

I have to say, I don't understand how this situation is a dilemma, never mind the whole idea that actually talking to people about who they are -- rather than attempting to search them out on the internet* -- is fundamental to building relationships

So, while JLove probably is being pretty underhanded in making up members, I don't think it can really be blamed for this potential couple's failure to actualize.

--sabre86

*The Internet, TM. Where everything is true!

Turn the tables!

[Nichotin (794369)]

I know this might be a long shot, but if people really believe all they see when they google your name on google, how about taking advantage of that? After I had googled my own name, I realised how lucky I am because what you find is basically tech reviews done by me and some old karate scoreboards with me even winning some medals. Putting some effort in it, I could probably make it look like I am also doing third wold humanitarian work, help the poor, fight cancer etc. That would probably fly well with all nosy employers and possible future employers that like to google people. And if someoene asks, you could either stick with the story or dismiss it as a coincidence because someone shares your name. For the record, I do have a name that is most likely unique.

I don't get it...

[Chysn (898420)]

* Bots are scraping names off the web
* Scammers use those names to do bad things
* Therefore, you should put your name on the web

That seems like a bad syllogism. I'm not saying the conclusion (that you need a strong web presence) is wrong. I'm just saying that if you're going to make a counter-intuitive conclusion, you need to connect the dots. You know, for us dumb guys.

Was it really you, or just "your" name?

[Peter Cooper (660482)]

I was ego-surfing the other day, and was surprised to discover that I was listed as a member of the an on-line dating service.

I don't see anything on the jLove Curt Monash page [jlove.com] that demonstrates that it's the guy who submitted this article. Surely there's more than one "Curt Monash" in the world?

If the site had scraped your Web site URL, e-mail address, or some other personal identifier that made the page look more "authentic", then there's a scam and a real privacy issue for us to be concerned about. If some computer is just putting together combinations of first and last names and building pages with no further personally identifiable information, that's spam for Google to worry about, not a scam or a privacy infringement for us to worry about.

at least one had lost interest in a guy because he appeared to be a member

The world is full of idiots. Just because someone's NAME (which is far from unique) is on a dating site, they lost interest? I'd say the guy had a lucky escape!

If there's any problem here, it's the Western naming convention that allows thousands of people to end up with the same name. Perhaps we should all become known by our e-mail addresses or IM screennames in the future to avoid this.

Re:Was it really you, or just "your" name?

[ormico (1226940)]

From now on I would like to be known as {FDCCD2BA-EDF4-4b71-A8FD-F7423A51D228} but my friends can call me FDCCD2BA for short.

Re:Was it really you, or just "your" name?

[stranger_to_himself (1132241)]

Yes they do go to meet real people but real people don't join unless they think there are already people have joined(you humans are such sheep in that regard)

So what species are you? Some other highly evolved ape that's mastered web-development?

Anyway to clarify: Humans are the ones you should be inventing on your site. Sheep are the small white wooly ones. You probably don't want them on your dating site. Or maybe you do, I don't want to judge.

I had something like this happen

[Jason Levine (196982)]

I got a notice that I had signed up for "WeeWorld" which appears to be a MySpace type site with avatars or something. Honestly, I wasn't really interested in the site beyond the fact that, somehow, "I" was now a member. Not only that, but "I" apparently had already communicated with some of "my" friends on there. I quickly assessed the situation and determined that nothing in my e-mail account indicated any hacking there. In fact, the site didn't have any sort of e-mail confirmation. It just took an e-mail address, assumed that the person was giving their real address, and then sent e-mails to that user notifying them whenever someone sent them a message.

So it looked like someone just decided to use my e-mail address in the "e-mail address" line when they signed up. Since the service nicely sent me "my" password when "I" signed up, I used it to log in. Then, I decided to lock "other me" out, so I changed the password. Then I changed the name on the account to "DON'T USE E-MAIL ADDYS THAT AREN'T YOURS" (so all of "other me's" friends would see what he did). Next, I contacted WeeWorld to report the abuse. They offered to close the account. I waited for a few days in the hopes that "other me" would realize that he was now locked out of his profile and had his name changed. Then I had them close the account.

Part of me was satisfied that, perhaps, he learned his lesson. Of course, another part of me realizes that he probably just signed up again with someone else's e-mail address. A very simple e-mail confirmation would stop abuses like this from happening. Sure, an abuser could use a hacked into e-mail account, but it is a simple action that raises the bar above most of the would-be abusers' heads.

Hmm. Just the kind of person I'm interested in.

[jimicus (737525)]

and discovered other people were upset, at least one had lost interest in a guy because he appeared to be a member,

Well, specifically, he found a blog entry [livejournal.com] from someone else, saying:

I went back, caught his name and cyberstalked him. I found out he was an investor. I found out that he was a runner. And soon enough, I found him on a singles page called "Jlove.com," a website for Jewish singles.

So she believes everything she reads online, she assumes that just because the name matches it's the right person and she makes no effort to speak to him face to face. Yeah. Just the kind of woman I'm interested in getting to know.

I think the guy she was cyberstalking had a lucky escape.

Few simple steps

[Veggiesama (1203068)]

Change your name to something more unique (try to throw in a few numbers).

Leave the country. Try for one of those places without computers. Solitary islands work best.

Have some reconstructive surgery. It is important that your face is altered, but if other parts of your body need work, well, that's your call.

Buy a big fluffy white cat. Not optional.

Design a plan... to take over the world...

It could be worse....

[autocracy (192714)]

Originally I was the only person who showed up in search results with my name. Unfortunately, that has changed. I'm very curious how many would-be dates have not happened because of this Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=jeffrey+ferland [google.com]

I run a dating site...this isn't "scamming"

[ehrichweiss (706417)]

I run a dating site and profile generation is a necessity. You see, in order to get people to join a dating site, you have to have people who already joined the dating site to attract them; it's a catch-22 that we cannot avoid. Usually the fake profiles have an expiration date of 1 year so after that the accounts just die off but regardless, your name isn't protected by any laws and can be used in works of fiction without your approval. Just get over it cause I've got some guy using my real name in a gospel band and as sickening as I find that, I don't care as I have better things to worry about.

Re:I run a dating site...this isn't "scamming"

[Viadd (173388)]

In other words, assholes like you commit fraud, so everybody else should just live with it.

Besides, if you are the real Ehrich Weiss [wikipedia.org], even if your victim got you thrown in jail you would just break out.

Re:I run a dating site...this isn't "scamming"

[NeutronCowboy (896098)]

But you're defrauding the people who think that your dating site actually has real members.

It's nice to see how warped a crook's mind is.

Re:I run a dating site...this isn't "scamming"

[penguin_dance (536599)]

You see, in order to get people to join a dating site, you have to fradulantly claim to have people who already joined the dating site to attract them; it's a catch-22 that we cannot avoid.

There, fixed that.

And I'll bet those profiles sound really good and new members wonder why they can't ever get hooked up with the fake profiles.

Smells like scam to me.

Re:

[ehrichweiss (706417)]

I don't claim anything AND since my site is completely free I can do with it as I see fit. There is no fraud despite your myopic view.

Most of those new members ignore the initial members since their profiles dropped off long ago, or did you miss that part when composing your great come-back in your mind?

Names are not Identities

[mikeplokta (223052)]

The US in general seems to have a big problem with mistaking names for identities, hence "no-fly lists" and other such idiocies. The solution here is to spread the meme that a name is not an identity, and you should make no assumptions if you see someone's name in an unfamiliar context.

Solution in Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End

[justrob (445616)]

In Vernor Vinge's near-future novel Rainbows End, an anarchist group gets fed up with trying to sort out what information about people is correct or not.

Their solution is to flood the net with false information about everyone, making the net a useless resource for gossip.

Available free and legal online:
http://vrinimi.org/rainbowsend.html

Re:You caught a wave!

[jc42 (318812)]

"I was ego-surfing the other day ..."

My wife's mother, who died back in 2002, looked up her own name soon after she discovered search sites. She found, to her delight, that her rather rare name was the stage name of a porn star, and there was a .com site based on that name. For the rest of her life, she was constantly telling people to check out her web site.

Re:You caught a wave!

[grub (11606)]

She found, to her delight, that her rather rare name was the stage name of a porn star

Your mother-in-law was Emily Tubgirl?!

Re:You caught a wave!

[Jason Levine (196982)]

I'm sure this is the question everyone wants to ask: What was your mother-in-law's name?

Re:You caught a wave!

[Surt (22457)]

Mine too!

Re:Easy, cross reference it with sex offenders

[ehrichweiss (706417)]

Nope, most of them aren't "name scraping" as suggested; they're generating the name pairs from a huge list of first names, a huge list of last names and typically a huge list of cities and states. Also what you suggest could very well count as slander/libel since saying that someone with name X is a member at your dating site is not the same as saying someone with name X is a sex offender.