Handling Caller ID Spoofing? 556
An anonymous reader writes "A nice little old lady I know has had her number spoofed by some car warranty scammers. They're calling hundreds of potential victims per day pretending to use her phone number, and the angry ones call her back; some of them have even left death threats. She's terrified. Some well-intending anti-telemarketing folks have posted her address on the 'net as well. How can we figure out where these scammer bastards are, and what's the state of the current legislation to prevent caller ID spoofing? I called the FBI in Boston (near where she lives) and they said they can't help. She's called her phone company, but they said they can't help either. She's had the same number for over 50 years and doesn't want to change it." If the Feds can't or won't handle it, what's the best approach here?
Ouch (Score:5, Insightful)
Well good grief, the two exact entities who are supposed to take care of this kind of thing refuse, then just what is going on in this country?
I'd just call them both a few more times to see if there's anywhere to get, it's very clear laws have been broken.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Business as usual".
Extended warranty telemarketers, scum of the Earth or not, help keep the economy flowing; little old ladies do not. Extended warranty telemarketers pay HUGE monthly phone bills; little old ladies do not.
The phone company cares about one thing only - Making as much money any way they can. Dealing with complaints from small potatoes takes m
Re:Ouch (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Interesting)
You could fix the "who cares" part by forwarding calls to her number to the FBI or your local phone company.
Careful with that... I got my hand slapped by the FBI once because they wouldn't do anything so I redirected all the traffic I was complaining about to them. Took them 2 weeks but they had me hauled before a Federal Judge to tell me to stop. The judge vacated the charges on my promise to stop redirecting traffic.
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Funny)
I skipped the middleman and now answer "PRIVATE NUMBER" and obviously-forged numbers a little differently. Example:
Me: Nebraska Attorney General John Bruning's office, how may I help you?
Scammer: Ummm, would you... like to cut your credit card interest rates?
Me: If you hang up, I will arrest you. What number are you calling from?
Scammed: [scared expletive deleted] [dial tone]
OK, so I lied. I don't think they're going to file a complaint about it.
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Informative)
I've worked accounts receivable before. If you call a company and don't like the answer you get, be polite, say thank you, then hang up. Call back immediately and 9 times out of 10, you get a different person. It's called "shopping", and people do it with doctors, salesmen, and even government offices. Call back until you get the answer you want or someone who's willing to help.
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Informative)
The correct agencies are the FCC and the FTC.
Here is an article about Caller ID fraud that gives the contact name and number for the FTC investigator in charge of this kind of thing.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/05/scorpio.shtm [ftc.gov]
It is from 2006, so the hierarchy may have changed, but it will send you to the right office. It the number doesn't work call - 1-877-FTC-HELP
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yet I strangely doubt that either the FBI or their telephone company has orders to ignore little old ladies in distress with something very much in their influence.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Funny)
the old lady should say someone called "Osama B" is spoofing her phone
she will get FBI attention in no time
Re:Ouch (Score:5, Insightful)
If she has received threats then a crime has definitely been committed. Perhaps the way to deal with it is not as a spoofed phone, but why are people she doesn't know making threats. Those people should be easy to track... let them explain to the telco and feds why they said that thing to a little old lady.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I think you are on to something there. The phone company in this country (US) has the unique problem of they have sold a phone to everyone who wants one. I read somewhere that some where between 98% and 99% of this country has a phone. How the phone company expands profits is by selling new services like call waiting and voice mail. Here is a new service that I would pay good money for; A phone company provided list of everyone who called my number in say the last month and I could take any number on that
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You are thinking about the CCS7 switching protocol in comparison to the Calling Name and Number system.
CCS7 is the protocol that's used to send originating/terminating phone number information across the telephone system in order to help route calls. The Calling Name and Number system is used to send phone number/customer name information to a telephone set. CCS7 cannot be lied to, as it's populated by the telephone company on a per call basic. The Calling Name and Number system can be lied to, as in certai
You're being sarcastic, but you are still correct (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, that's the worst problem we face in America today.
It is. Not bogus phone calls, mind you. But governmental apathy. The system doesn't care about the so called "little people" anymore.
If it was the mayor of a big town, or a chief of police, or a congressman that was being harassed in this way the FBI would be all over it - and you know it.
Re:You're being sarcastic, but you are still corre (Score:4, Insightful)
News Media (Score:5, Insightful)
Bring the news media in on it, somebody a little more mainstream than Slashdot.
Then start making threats, and if the phonecalls are inter-state commerce it is a federal issue. Back them up against a wall and force them to act.
Re:News Media (Score:5, Insightful)
Contacting the media is definitely the best strategy: not only is this newsworthy, it should shame several agencies into action.
Re:News Media (Score:5, Insightful)
Even better if you turn up in person at the agencies and stick to your guns enough to get the complaint referred to some sort of managerial level, then make sure you get the name of the person you spoke to.
If you quote this person by name in your report to the media, it sends a clear signal that someone is going to need to cover his ass. At that point, the excreta should make contact with the impeller.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:News Media (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Election Time (Score:5, Informative)
Call local elected reps (state & federal) saying that you're unable to get anyone to deal with the issue. Call the FBI in DC as well. If she's getting interstate death threats, that's illegal and the FBI can call the people back. I've had good luck with my local FBI office (Ann Arbor) when I received an interstate death threat.
Re:Election Time (Score:4, Funny)
I've had good luck with my local FBI office (Ann Arbor) when I received an interstate death threat.
...
Do you get a lot of those?
Re:Election Time (Score:4, Funny)
Anytime I get on I94.
Re:Election Time (Score:5, Funny)
I've had good luck with my local FBI office (Ann Arbor) when I received an interstate death threat.
Yet another reason I make all my death threats locally...
Bogus. (Score:5, Insightful)
The call can quite easily be traced back to where it came from -- even if it's voip in nature, at very least you can find the originating carrier and they can deal with their customer.
We run a very popular VoIP service (http://ironvoice.com) and tightly control caller id in a manner that still gives our customers flexibility but still imposes responsibility.
The FBI can certainly help, that's bogus. The phone company can certainly help, that's bogus as well. The phone company knows from which carrier the call came from and so on and so forth until they can pin down the offending carrier.
Legislation isn't the answer -- customer service is.
Call the FCC? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
The Federal Trade Commission may help, too, if it's a US company from another state.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Doesn't work if the call comes from outside of Canada. I got those at times and the CRTC told me to take it up with the telcos. The telcos said it came out of country and they couldn't do a thing. I ended up going to the FTC and FCC and leaving a note there, but, nothing has happened so far.
whocalled.us (Score:4, Insightful)
You can use http://whocalled.us/ to coordinate investigation. Even though the number is spoofed, as long as they are using it consistently it is still an identifier. As everyone shares facts they discover it's possible to find the true identity.
Caller ID spoofing has become a real problem, but political representatives are too busy flashing around fake solutions to hyperinflated problems, like throwing more money at stopping the 9000 pedo penises from raping children over the internets.
If anyone has a technological solution, please post it, as we have more of a chance of fixing this stuff as engineers than the politicians do as legislators.
Technological solutions (Score:3, Insightful)
Phone companies should read the caller ID information from outbound calls from their customers and block the call if the caller ID doesn't match.
The lady could setup a voice menu explaining that she isn't responsible for those calls, and press 1 if they want to ring through. That should eliminate some of the calls.
Wire Fraud (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't this count as wire fraud?
Mind you this practice will get attention when the numbers used are not those of citizens but those used by government lobbying corporations.
Easy to fix... (Score:3, Insightful)
I calle the FBI in Boston (near where she lives) and they said they can't help
Just tell them people are getting bomb threats... That should easily get this put on their #1 list and resolved in about 5 minutes tops. Isn't that why they phone tap everyone?
Quick workarounds (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Have her set up an answering machine with a short explanation.
2) Get the mainstream media involved.
Posting her address? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well intentioned or not, those guys are fucking assholes.
Same boat (Score:4, Funny)
About all I can do is have a nice conversation with the caller, explain the situation, and ask them to talk with the scammer next time and find out who they are. I volunteer that I have some employees in Afghanistan who, in exchange for a ticket home, will be happy to pay the bastards a visit.
State's Attorney (Score:3, Insightful)
How do we know she isn't a terrorist? (Score:5, Funny)
Come on its 2008, we can't just take such trifling things as an individuals vouching for someone and their previous good record. She SAYS that she didn't make the call, but what would she say if she was waterboarded? Would she stick to her story or switch it to admit that she did make all the calls?
Sure she claims that she doesn't want to change her number just because she has had it for 50 years, but couldn't that be because she co-ordinates a major terrorist cell of grandmas across america (known in intelligence circles as Al-Quilter)? These evil women are spreading hate through out of date sugary treats and a fondness for knowing everything that is going on in the world while comparing it unfavourably with their own personal ideology of "it was better when I was young". We must stop these pedallers of hate against modern American who condemn the US of A as going to hell in a hand cart and not the sort of country that they want to live in. Death to Al-Quilter
I say condemn her based on the irrefutable caller ID evidence.
Seriously though its good that this old dear has someone looking out for her because in modern America you could easily see her being prosecuted because of an unfortunate conjunction of evidence.
What is the callback number? (Score:3, Informative)
If thats the case, see if you can figure out who sold the 1-800 number. I have been dealing with annoying bogus credit counselors that won't stop calling and leaving their 1-800 numbers as callbacks. There are some good resources for this stuff online that may be able to help you find the company who sold the number - they are sold similarly to web domains, though without any obligation to anyone to release the data on who has it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I got one of these calls. It was to my cell phone, from a caller ID of 414-302-xxxx. It was a robocall asking about renewing my "vehicle warranty", and that I should press 1 to talk to a rep. So I pressed 1 and asked the rep what vehicle warranty this was about (as I don't have any vehicle under warranty). She said that she couldn't tell me for security reasons (!!) and that it was usually a '95-'97 model year. I told her I had no such vehicle, and she said she would "remove me from their list." End o
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So where's the motivation?
We aren't talking about prank calls here, we're talking about scams and the like. These require a method of extracting money from the mark. Therefore, for all of these calls, there has to be some way to transfer money from the callee to the caller. Since this method has to work for dim-witted callees (since it won't for alert and suspicious ones), it can't be too obscure.
People don't run illegal operations just to do something illegal, but to make money. They can't have pe
Voicemail? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Voicemail? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because: I've noticed that most people don't listen to the outgoing voicemail message. During the ringing and soon after the pickup, most people are mentally rehearsing their script in their head. "Hi, I'm calling to tell you..." I've created messages to the effect of "I'm not in the office, won't be back for a week, and won't be checking messages. Here's an alternate number for you to try..." and they STILL leave a message oblivious to what I've just told them, asking for immediate or short-term response.
Call the FBI and telco again (Score:5, Informative)
Oftentimes, people just don't know how to ask for help correctly when contacting an agency such as the FBI or telephone company. If she can't clearly articulate the problem to the person on the other end of the phone they simply might not be aware of the issue or its ramifications.
If you're able to clearly articulate the issue and still get denied, start writing letters. To the SAC of the local FBI office, or as high up as you can go to the telco. And as others suggested, contact the media: the local newspaper omsbudman, the local TV station's investigative reporter. And also as others have suggested contact your local elected representatives.
I'm not defending the FBI or phone company, but I've seen instances where a problem simply isn't stated clearly enough for the other party to understand what's going on. So the first thing to do is ensure that when the FBI and telco are involved, that the problem is stated in correct terms (and that you're talking to the proper person in the organization).
Logic has it (Score:5, Funny)
I know who they are (Score:5, Interesting)
You're looking for:
Digitcom Services, Inc.
12923 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90066
Phone (310) 358-7000
TollFree(800) 464-5446
Fax (310) 437-4105
Please note: I am not posting this so you can pester, annoy, harass, or threaten them. If you call, call once, speak to their manager, and politely let them know what you think about their business practices. What you do with this is up to you, I hold no responsibilty for the actions of others.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Can I ask how you tracked them down? I'm not too familiar with CallerID spoofing, and I'd like to know about ways to detect and defeat it.
Thanks
-molo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I know who they are (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you have proof that they are indeed the company responsible?
Re:I know who they are (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, I just called them and got some sad sounding old lady.
Not well intending! (Score:3, Insightful)
"She's terrified. Some well-intending anti-telemarketing folks have posted her address on the 'net as well. "
Welcome to vigilante justice. I wonder how many folks on slashdot think that posting peoples address like this on the Internet is a good idea?
Well I am sure that if it was a real scammer then it would be okay...
Until you make a mistake.
Call the police, then the news, then your elected reps...
They need to hunt these idiots down.
Both the scammers and the ones that are calling this lady.
write your congresscritter (Score:3, Interesting)
They love to make themselves look good with stuff like this. They'll get the FBI hopping. Caller ID spoofing is fraud, and it's prosecutable.
How to obtain actual caller ID using asterisk (Score:3, Informative)
i have the reverse problem (Score:5, Funny)
little old ladies are always calling me
no seriously. the best i can make out from the odd chats i've had with various little old ladies over the years is that my number was previously owned by a high end and antique pen dealership. that explains the demographics of the calls i get. an occasional little old man, sure, but mostly little old ladies make up the customer base for fine crafted pens
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I had to change phone numbers when switching from ISDN back to POTS way back when. The first number we got had been owned by a drug dealer, and we'd get collect calls from prison and people wanting a fix. That lasted for about a day. The next number we got had been the local Alcholics Anonymous chapter, and after a couple of bleary 2AM "if I don't quit drinking I think I might die" calls, we switched again. So far, so good.
get rid of angry callers with screening machine (Score:3, Interesting)
Phone logs and the FTC (Score:5, Informative)
Dosn't matter a bit FBI? CIA? RGB? TFB?
If she was getting call backs, she should tell EVERY ONE WHO CALLS, AWS are scammers, and they should register with the FTC: and START Signed and dated PHONE LOGS. Every one I hear gets these phone calls, I show them the origional post card that started it all, and my phone log. I have clued in about 20 people, and we have filed over 15 reports for illegal telemarketing contact, i.e. Dont call EVER, and ... they ... call @ $500 per complaint.
http://www.ftc.gov/ [ftc.gov]
Scammer name:
Automotive Warranty Solutions
6501 congress ave, ste 140, boca raton, fl 33487
877-700-5880,
Call their 800 number, and ask to be put on their do not call list. ( just everone call plz )
This is a Attorney General who is taking this problem seriously. ( Note: California and Florida are probibly NOT ):
http://www.ct.gov/AG/cwp/view.asp?A=2795&Q=411422 [ct.gov]
a blogger who did a lot of flatfoot work:
http://www.markturner.net/2007/11/08/car-warranty-scam-continued/ [markturner.net]
Remember: REMEMBER! Documented phone logs make diffrence. If you can document DNC and the call back time and date. Give them a call and get on their DNC list ANYWAY. So when they do call...
best approach (Score:3, Insightful)
Continue advocating the phase out of the legacy telephone system with its unreliable caller id info. The ideal way this stuff should work, is that if the incoming connection request isn't OpenPGP-signed by someone you have some sort of WoT path to, then you don't know who it is.
We've had the tech to solve The Big Authentication Problem for a couple decades now (thanks, Phil!). We just need to start using it, for voice, email, etc.
You are giving them too much credit. Caller ID is widely known, even to many laymen now, to be unreliable. (And someone who makes a point of going after scammers has little excuse for being behind the curve on this.) They don't really have strong reason to believe she is the scammer. To do such a thing without checking their facts is irresponsible and possibly libelous. I wouldn't sugarcoat their actions.
Caller ID spoofing - ILLEGAL (Score:5, Informative)
The US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation passed S. 704, a bill that would make it a crime to spoof caller ID.
Dubbed the "Truth in Caller ID Act of 2007," the bill would outlaw causing "any caller identification service to transmit misleading or inaccurate caller identification information" via "any telecommunications service or IP-enabled voice service." Law enforcement is exempted from the rule.
Specifically these sections:
SEC. 2. PROHIBITION REGARDING MANIPULATION OF CALLER IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION.
Section 227 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 227) is amended -
(1) by redesignating subsections (e), (f), and (g) as subsections (f), (g), and (h), respectively; and
(2) by inserting after subsection (d) the following new subsection:
`(e) Prohibition on Provision of Inaccurate Caller Identification Information. -
`(1) IN GENERAL - It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States, in connection with any telecommunications service or IP-enabled voice service, to cause any caller identification service to knowingly transmit misleading or inaccurate caller identification information with the intent to defraud, cause harm, or wrongfully obtain anything of value, unless such transmission is exempted pursuant to paragraph (3)(B).
`(3) REGULATIONS -
`(A) IN GENERAL - Not later than 6 months after the enactment of this subsection, the Commission shall prescribe regulations to implement this subsection.
`(B) CONTENT OF REGULATIONS -
`(i) IN GENERAL - The regulations required under subparagraph (A) shall include such exemptions from the prohibition under paragraph (1) as the Commission determines is appropriate.
`(ii) SPECIFIC EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES OR COURT ORDERS - The regulations required under subparagraph (A) shall exempt from the prohibition under paragraph (1) transmissions in connection with -
`(I) any authorized activity of a law enforcement agency; or
`(II) a court order that specifically authorizes the use of caller identification manipulation.
Law enforcement is negligent if they fail to take action. IMO - If the Law doesn't work, the local newspaper and/or television station might get the ball rolling.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Unless I'm getting this mixed up with another one, according to govtrack, this never got voted on in the Senate [govtrack.us], nor did its companion, HR 251 [govtrack.us], which was passed in the House, so it's not actually illegal.
SOLUTION (Score:3, Interesting)
Some ideas (Score:3, Informative)
First off, I like the idea of intercepting this with an auto attendant, I think that's the simplest and most important thing you can do in the short term. I think you could ask your local telco if they can put an intercept message on the line - that should be completely possible. If not, look for some kind of device that will pick up, play back a recorded message, then pass the call on to the phone. A service like this would work well but costs money:
http://www.americanvoicemail.com/autoattendant.html
Or, you can probably do some call forwarding tricks, but that will require switching the number to a different carrier because a regular 1FR line won't do the necessary tricks.
Oh, and some idiot on this forum is going to suggest doing some tricks with Asterisk - ignore them because it's 20 times more work than you need to do and in the end it's just going to confuse her.
To really nab these guys, you're going to need to some how trace it back to the origin, and that's going to be damn hard. If you can't get a callback number to trace it with, then it would be nice if you could some how get ANI (automatic number identification) information. And that could be possible. Do it this way: find an agreeable caller who'll work to help nab this guy. Then get them to go to their telco and request their phone records get pulled and the ANI from the phone call retrieved. Then go to the telco's with that ANI and find out who owns it. Anyone can spoof caller ID, but it takes some real magic to spoof ANI. (Unfortunately some carriers toss away ANI records and translate caller ID to ANI, so be careful. It may take a few interations to get that info.)
Now, that's still probably not going to work. I have no doubt these guys are offshore and using a VOIP box (probably Asterisk, lol). The VOIP calls terminate to a VOIP carrier in the US with an account that was set up under some fraudulent information. Then that VOIP carrier is peered with the real telco's via some regular old PRI's and that's the ANI information you'll get. However, I have no doubt that somewhere, some how a bill is generated and paid for, so if you can get to the VOIP carrier, you might be able to track this down.
Re:Revenge (Score:5, Funny)
.. or she could hire - the A-TEAM!
Re:Revenge (Score:4, Funny)
if she can find them.
Re:Revenge (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Revenge I called the FBI and suggested that (Score:3, Interesting)
and told others what i did and surmised later that i don't know HOW close i was to being potentially arrested.
See, i'd been ripped off, losing a sizable chunk of money by a scammer in 2001/2002. I was laid off, had a mortgage, was desperate, and when you've been unhirable for almost a year, and burning down your vested stocks because some CEO got a bonus to lay you off when that bonus (several $10s of millions from what i heard) could have kept me and others employed for a few more months), your world start
Re:I know it would suck, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should she change her phone number for goodness sake? She has done nothing wrong. She's had that number for over 50 years. Seriously, you should be outraged against those who have actually done wrong here, not suggesting she take the rap herself.
Re:I know it would suck, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should she change her phone number for goodness sake?
Even if the perpetrators are caught, she may still have to change her phone number, so she should probably consider just doing it now. Now that her number has been associated with the scammers, the effects may linger for a long time.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The effects will linger more or less forever because the spammer(s) will never be caught or stopped. The clearance rate for homicides in the US is about 65% and I imagine we try harder in that category than in catching caller ID spoofers.
To turn this situation around a bit: A few years ago someone broke into my house. Their efforts to steal firearms were thwarted by the fact that I store mine in a formidable safe so they left with just my checkbook. There are places where, had I not had that safe, I would b
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
> Now that her number has been associated with the scammers
Somewhat off-topic, but if someones identity is stolen do they have to change it as weel? New fingerprint, SSN, name change...?
Anyway, in her place I would:
1. Report the death threats to the FBI. I know that the shmuck making the threat had no clue that there is such a thing as caller ID spoofing (neither did I), BUT making a death threat was wrong and further even other threats (say legal action against a scam caller) should be preceded by mak
Re:I know it would suck, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes bad people get away with things, and there's nothing you can do to get them back. You just have to do the best you can to protect yourself, and changing your phone number is a relatively minor thing to do to end this.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The thing is, the lady is well aware that she could change her number - so much is obvious from the original question. But it seems that she has already chosen not to go down that route.
To suggest an answer that has already been rejected is at best unhelpful, and at worst quite insulting if it implies that her views are not taken seriously.
I respect her decision to take a stand on this. I also respect her wish to find a solution that doesn't compromise that stand.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
>> Not to mention the fact that the number
>> will no longer be valid, and the spoofers
>> will have to get a new number to fake.
Nope. They can make the caller id 555-555-5555 or any thing they want. It doesn't need to be valid number
I use the 555-0100 to 555-0199 block to call out to company cellphones. By saving something like "Sales" "Marketing!" "Cust Support!" "Server Room is 90F" as the name of each number we can know what the call is about.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
<officespace>
Why should I change my name?! He's the one that sucks!
</officespace>
Re: Don't sue, ask for sex. (Score:5, Funny)
Asking to be removed doesn't work.
Citing the do not call list doesn't work. They laugh.
Telling the male calling, in my deepest voice, that he sounds cute and I want his home number, THAT seems to work. Especially on the ones with southern accents.
I wonder what would happen if everyone started propositioning these callers for 'favors'.
Re: Don't sue, ask for sex. (Score:4, Funny)
Then you mention something about fava beans.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
we need an angry mob to find these car warranty robo-caller bitches and give them hell.
Yaknow ... I used to get a few these calls per week. One of the OP states that they laugh at you if you mention the DNC, or ask to be removed from their call list which is my experience as well.
I have not been called since I asked for extended warranty on my '72 Dodge Dart. Seems they realized I was going to be a dick, and stopped calling.
YMMV.
Re:Vigilante Justice ala Slashdot Anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
Just post their website here - the sheer curiosity of a million slashdotters will flatten their servers faster than a horde of Mongol warriors on horseback.
Re:Vigilante Justice ala Slashdot Anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
Address and Phone of digitcom (Score:3, Informative)
WEST LOS ANGELES
12923 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90066
(On Venice Blvd. between Lincoln and Beethoven,
across the street from Venice High School)
Phone (310) 358-7000
(800) 464-5446
Fax (310) 437-4105
Re:Vigilante Justice ala Slashdot Anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
How do we know this is the company and not just someone who pissed off "Lookin4Trouble"? That's the problem with vigilante Justice. Vigilante's don't always check the facts, neither do slashdot editors for that matter.
Re:Vigilante Justice ala Slashdot Anyone? (Score:4, Interesting)
E
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Vigilante Justice ala Slashdot Anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:same here (Score:5, Informative)
The phone companies shall have so called call data records, often declared as CDR:s. These provide information about the calls made to/from a certain number. Using these records it is possible to back-track the phone call to the originating operator. The phone companies have a lot of information available to allow for tracking, but since it requires a lot of work to dig through the data they are very reluctant to do so.
Another way is to catch on to the caller and check who purchased their service and then follow the money trail.
Unfortunately it is possible that the caller that spoofs the number is offshore somewhere.
And if the FBI won't help, I suggest that you also check other channels of law enforcement and keep everything in writing so that you have a history to refer to. Taking help from a lawyer may be one way to continue this. It's always interesting if you can get in touch with the right lawyer who knows which buttons to push to get some results.
Re:same here (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:same here (Score:4, Informative)
Defamation of character. These people think SHE is calling them. They are pretending to be her by calling "from" her number.
It's to the point where SHE is getting harassed and getting death threats. I think a judge would allow the discovery.
Re:same here (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I've got AT&T on the home phone and I'm required to enter a password when I try to check my voicemail from the home phone.
Maybe it's a regional thing (I was originally a BellSouth customer).
Re:same here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:same here (Score:5, Informative)
A CDR may or may not have accurate information as to the source of the call. If the call is entirely local (the LEC handles call termination on both ends as well as transit), then it should have all the information. However, if the call transits a different carrier, then the LEC that handles termination for the target of the scammer only knows the caller ID that was passed to it from the transit carrier. If it's unknown, then that's what is passed into the CDR. You may be able to glean other source information about the handoff to the transit carrier, then get THEM involved to find the call that was routed to that handoff at that time, and so on.
Oh, and since those aren't her calls (the scammer wasn't calling HER), then you must have a subpoena. If one of the scam targets cooperates, then THEY might be able to request their own records, but to get intervening carriers to cooperate, you'll need a lawyer or law enforcement. I'd try the latter, first. Keywords like "terroristic threats" and such may get you some attention. Once you know it crosses state lines, and perhaps some idea of how wide sweeping the scope is, then you might have something the FBI can/will look at. Try your local state bureau of investigation first, as they may have more immediate resources.
Ob. disclaimer: Though employed in telecom, I am not a lawyer.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
However, if the call transits a different carrier, then the LEC that handles termination for the target of the scammer only knows the caller ID that was passed to it from the transit carrier.
That's not entirely accurate. ANI [wikipedia.org] exists separately from caller id and is generally much harder to spoof. The LEC probably has access to this information -- whether or not they will share it with you sans subpoena is another matter altogether.....
Re:same here (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I am sure that ANI is what is being spoofed here. (I have received calls from the same group myself.) ANI can be spoofed if the originating carrier allows, which is common practice for high-volume outbound automated calling campaigns. It is usually used legitimately to provide a number via which the called party can call back later if they miss the call or are disconnected.
(I work for a company which legitimately performs this sort of high-volume outbound calling.)
One other thing to note - this is actually the jursidiction of the FCC, not the FBI (at least not yet). As soon as you can prove that there is some sort of actual fraud going on beyond just violating FCC rules, then they might get involved.
Re:same here (Score:4, Informative)
There are two "caller-id" fields that are sent in SS7 (the out-of-band signaling that occurs between telcos) -- the BTN (Bill To Number), and the CPN (Calling Party Number). The BTN refers to the actual carrier, and account number that is placing the call, and the CPN is what is displayed by consumer Caller-ID units.
Large customers who have direct access to SS7 information over ISDN would be able to pick up the BTN, which would identify, at the very worst, the caller's local exchange carrier.
The phone companies are not allowed to reveal the BTN to a consumer or police agency without a signed subpoena by a judge with jurisdiction of the crime. The only exception to the rule seems to be the whitehouse, but that is a different matter all together. There are direct FCC violations to reveal that information without the proper paperwork.
As far as the lady keeping her phone number, that is akin to somebody keeping their credit card number after fraud. Yes, it is the number that she has had for years, and its the number that everybody knows, but in all honesty, the number is black listed now. She hasn't had the number for 50 years, as in the 70's going into the 80's NuStar renumber all the phone numbers from 4,5, and 6 digits to 10 digit numbers.
Your daughter come to my house and kick my dog! (Score:3, Interesting)
It sucks to be violated by some punks that dont even know you.
I had some people call about my student loan and said they had a federal rebate for me, all i had to do is give them a routing number to my bank account. and then they started trying to get me to say yes on a recorded call to saying they could take $400 dollars for a bunch of coupons
Re:Your daughter come to my house and kick my dog! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hello?"
"You ^&*% fraudster! How dare you call me and #$%^@^$ demand my money!"
"Call the FBI for me. Please."
"What?"
"No, I'm serious. The Boston FBI specifically. I'll give you the number if you want..."
After you've woken them up with that shock, you can give your sob story. Might work. Might not. I think most of them will come to their senses. At least it will alleviate and redirect some of the anger of the callers. On the plus side, it might tick off the FBI, but they can't blame you for all the calls they'll be getting. (I know religion on Slashdot is taboo, but you might refer to the parable of the unjust judge: Luke 18:2-5) I would also recommend contacting a lawyer.
Re:Lawyer. (Score:5, Interesting)
I leave it to others to decide what this says about the US.
Re:Shout (Score:4, Insightful)
You've never worked in customer service, have you? In call centres especially, that little hold button is so useful when a caller starts getting abusive, as is the release button. I have released calls before when customers start shouting at me for no reason. One even took it upon himself to sue the company, and was ordered to pay our legal fees when our lawyers played the recording before the courts.
And if you do it in person, you need to understand that the newspaper is private property and they can have you escorted off the premises if you get abusive, and they can have you arrested if you don't cooperate with that. And the FBI and police are both law enforcement agencies, and they can throw you in jail for being abusive to them.
You get much farther when dealing with customer service if you are reasonable. A wise man once said... speak softly and carry a big stick. Be reasonable. Don't be abusive. And if you can't get anywhere over the phone, send a letter. Around here, at least, corporations are required, by law, to provide their mailing address when asked.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The people suggesting "call the media" are not wanting the media on the scammers. They're wanting the media on the law enforcement officials so they will go after the scammers.