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Good Robot Projects For K-5?
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Mar 04, 2009 05:02 PM
from the must-deliver-candy-to-adults dept.
from the must-deliver-candy-to-adults dept.
bugs2squash writes "Some of the parents of kids at my son's elementary school would like to set up a robotics club for the children. I see that Lego has a new line of robotics bricks called wedo (PDF) and that seems to be the path of least resistance to doing something. But I wanted to ask: What experience do all y'all have of running a robotics club for this age group (5 thru 10 years old) and what factors made it a success (or failure)? Did you use a commercial kit of parts or brew something from scratch? What kind of projects work well with kids this age? I was thinking maybe making robot flowers (yes, I know they'd all rather build robotic sharks with lasers)." (Here's another page about Wedo.)
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Too young (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too young (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young boys. R3.0 has been trying to build Transformers and other devices out of sticks and soda cans, and he's been doing that since he was 4 or 5.
In some kids, the desire to control is far less insistent than the drive to create. (And dismantle/destroy, but that's a topic for another post.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Combine them. Have the kids build turtle kits and program them to draw. They're easy to build (two drive motors and one pen motor), easy to program (left speed, right speed, pen up or down), and produce immediate results that the kids can see.
In all seriousness, this was one of my first exposures to robotics and programming. It's still a fantastic start.
correction needed (Score:5, Informative)
"I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young boys. "
Correction:
"I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young children. "
As a parent of a son and daughter, I see how that simple usage can make a young girl think girls don't do that sort of thing.
Young girls want an try to identify with being a girl, and as such avoid things labels for boys.(visa versa as well)
I encourage my daughter(and my son) in mathematics, science, engineering, chemistry(which she loves) etc and ahve seen her interest drop off as soon as some jack ass* adult says it's for 'boys'.
Clearly this doesn't involved grammar~
Fortunatly I talk with her often about it, and think she is starting to get it.
I don't want to seem a pedantic ass, but It si very personal. And yes, I will correct an adult I'm talking to if any kids are nearby.
*not that you are a jack ass, just that some of the people saying this are in a position of 'authority'.
Parent
Re:Too young (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that age group is too young to build robots on any informative level. I'm sorry, but they just won't "get it".
Just because the No Child Left Behind Act has you underestimating education, doesn't mean anyone is too young to indulge in technology.
Hell, 5-10? I'm sure they already have a decent applications/software background (surfing the web, running programs/games on the computer). Seeing how the linked PDF looked interesting, yet elegantly simple enough for a child (ok, so advertising may not speak truth), I would say it's worth a chance to teach. What's the worst that can happen if it goes over their heads? 1 student learns while 25 don't?
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It depends... Children go through distinct mental phases where their capacity to analyze things is very different from other stages. Most of these children will still be in the pre-operational stage where they can only follow short chains of cause-effect. The older ones (changes at ~7) will be in the concrete operation stage where they can follow cause-effect chains but can't understand abstract things like `a pointer to a function that returns an array of...' so you should avoid certain things with them.
P
Re:Too young (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the engineers I work with don't understand that either.
Parent
I'll bet (Score:2, Interesting)
... when you were a kid you had a lot of friends.
My favourite toys when I was age 5-10 were capsela, construx, and Jr. Radio kits. I only wish shows like Battlebots were around to further pique my interest.
Anything you can do to get your kid into higher-level thinking and problem solving (like elementary computer programming and robotics) will give them a huge leg-up in the education system. Any way you can make it fun for them will help them understand more.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My favourite toys when I was age 5-10 were capsela, construx, and Jr. Radio kits
definitely capsela for them. Motor, switch, gears, easy to put together. I made a "robot" for a ~5th grade "build a robot" project our class had, and the class went wild over it. Mine was definitely the only one with moving parts. The rest were cutout painted cereal boxes etc.
Labview plug (Score:3, Interesting)
Its modular, graphical interface [case.edu] is a perfect compliment for Lego-style robot building(and is also invaluable for test and measurement automation).
Re: (Score:2)
oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE lego, but this is a question for robotics. Even back then I had a cothesbasket full of legos and I went with capsela for the moving parts and gears that you don't have with lego.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't find the story now. But there's a story about the old Canadian wilderness. A guy took his 12 year old son over the mountains to setup a new homestead. They built a temporary house and before the winter the father left the son and returned back to the rest of the family.
The son was there in the spring when the dad brought the rest of the family. Granted 5th grade is only 10-11, but a 12 year old than managed to hunt, clean, and survive in the Canadian wilderness a hundred years ago.
Stop treating kids
Re:Too young (Score:4, Informative)
Sign of the Beaver.
My 8 year old is reading it right now. He loves it.
Parent
Re:Too young (Score:4, Informative)
Lego Mindstorms could work. At least then the kids get to build something, including placing of motors and sensors, then program them using a simple flow chart style language. There's even an almost but not quite C language that they also support for the over achievers (or yourself to do demo's with).
If nothing else just let the Kindergartners and 1st graders build with the Lego's, add in the motors (locked full speed in one direction) for the 2st and 3nd graders, the flowchart programming for the 4th graders, and the sensors for the 5th graders. It's possible to get into some relatively advanced behavior such as line following, maze solving, and light searching with the default sensors and flowchart languange that is provided with the educational kits.
Parent
Re:Too young (Score:4, Insightful)
Your wrong.
I coach FLL (http://www.usfirst.org/) and see 5 year olds get it.
Once taught basic programming techniques and how to use the IDE(an hour to do both) they're off and going with only a little guidance. Usually when they get stuck no a part I''ll help the break the problem down.
"Hmm you need it to wait? maybe there is a wait od sleep instruction?"
Then they look and find it. after a couple of those they start looking to see if they can find an answer before getting stuck.
Kids are fucking smart...really really smart. They are way under utilized in our society.
You will never be smarter then when you are a kids..more knowledgeable, but never smarter.
"Instead, why don't you buy some working robotic toys and let the kids program them to repeat an action, maybe, or just play with them?"
Becasue:
A) they get bored with that in about 90 seconds.
B) Just becasue kids build robots doesn't mean they don't also play with toys.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Kids are fucking smart...really really smart. They are way under utilized in our society.
I know man, ever since those child labor laws were passed in 1938, business has just been terrible!
Re:Too young (Score:4, Informative)
I think that age group is too young to build robots on any informative level. I'm sorry, but they just won't "get it".
You'd be surprised. When my son was in Cub Scouts (grades 2-5) we had them do this kind of stuff all the time.
Here's a great project that's well within the age range of these kids: Bristlebots! [evilmadscientist.com] Provide them with all the technical parts: motors, double sided tape, batteries, wires, solder, tools, and safety equipment, everything except for the toothbrush. Give them at least a week's notice to bring in a toothbrush, (provide printed flyers explaining the project) and they'll go home and beg mom or dad to help them find them an old toothbrush they can destroy. Of course you'll need some extras on hand so nobody is left out. But make sure they have plenty of notice. The anticipation is a huge part of the experience.
The flyers serve several purposes: they build excitement, they inform the parents about days and activities, they ask parents to help scrounge up a toothbrush, they can serve as the "permission slip" to use the tools under supervision, and depending on financial circumstances, you can ask parents to pay the cost of the parts. You need to be clear that parts will be provided for all the kids regardless of donations, so as not to leave anyone out. But really, the first hit on the Goog just found pager motors for $1.29, so parts costs should be dirt cheap. Even in a tough situation with a lot of underprivileged kids, you can probably find a couple people willing to donate $20 or so.
On build day, use the older kids to perform the tougher tasks. The 3rd and 4th graders are more than capable of sawing off the toothbrush handles with a hacksaw (provide a vise.) If you have a 5th grader in the group, they might even be capable of soldering, but if not you could still use one as a "third hand" to apply the solder. (Or you can pre-solder the wires yourself before Robot Day.) Direct supervision and proper safety equipment is required, of course, but kids LOVE to use "dangerous" tools. It's a great opportunity to educate them on safety, and there's very little chance of serious injury.
If you print up assembly directions, be sure you test them yourself before build day. Have a pre-made bristlebot to show the kids what they're making.
For the youngest kids, if you can find a way to decorate them (provide them with stickers or whatever) then they get to participate too. There's a tremendous value in getting the kids to do the assembly. It might be slightly beyond the 5-6 year olds (it's definitely kid dependent,) but even the 7-year olds are likely to be able to accomplish it. And the younger kids may just have fun playing with them, but it's still participation.
Be sure to follow up the build event with some kind of organized contest where the kids can enter their robots. It's best to run it the same day so that kids don't have a chance to lose or break their robots or wear out their batteries.
If you operate the bristlebots on a horizontal dry-erase board as the article pictures, you could try having them erase marker lines, or race from one end to the other, or out of a circle, or follow a simple drawn track. Pre-print some award certificates for things like "Robot with the Cleanest Teeth" and a handful of other cheesy awards, and hand them out for things like "the kid who picked the highest number."
Trust me -- if you can organize this little bit, the kids will love it and the parents will beg you to do it again next year.
Parent
Range of students. (Score:5, Insightful)
Motarized Constructs. (Score:2)
I remember being that age and working with motorized constructs.
They were great. Different belts on different size flywheels creating different speeds. Connecting a bar to a hinge and part of the fly wheel allows you to make simple robots with arms that go up and down.
Lego is probably the way to go. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
FIRST JLL (Score:5, Informative)
FIRST junior Lego league is designed for this age group, and though I haven't been involved at that age level, I know the middle school and high school programs are good, and the elementary school version looks age appropriate.
The FIRST organization is definitely an outstanding model of teaching kids what is is that programmers and engineers do in a way that is exciting and relevant to each age group. I highly recommend checking them out.
http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/jfll/welcome.html [usfirst.org]
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Robots? (Score:2)
Re:Robots? (Score:4, Insightful)
You have it backwards - kids learn about "electric motors, circuits that light up LEDs, gears, pulleys and levers" by building things that use them. Then, While they are building something cool, you teach them the principles behind it.
Parent
Robotix (Score:3, Informative)
Perp-a-tron (Score:3, Funny)
Whenever I think about kids and robots I can't help but think about Perp-a-tron [www.sumo.tv]. Not sure if a child molesting robot is a suitable project for the kids, but it'll put them ahead of the game.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Don't forget your robot insurance, especially if the little ones are going to be around their grandparents much...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/2340/saturday-night-live-old-glory [hulu.com]
First Lego League (Score:3, Informative)
There is a First Lego League with particapation starting at 6 years old I think this might fit your bill. I've been hearing great things about it.
The URL is: http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/homepage.html [usfirst.org]
Good Luck
Homebrew (Score:2)
When I was in that age range, schools were building eggmobiles (machines that can carry raw eggs over an obstacle course at high speed) and competing in the Granada Power Game (the contest I entered involved dropping a coin exactly half-way along a track, again at high speed).
Children not much older were competing quite successfully at contests such as the Micromouse tournament.
This is not to say that kids these days would be satisfied with such problems today, but this would seem a logical starting point a
Re: (Score:2)
"The problem with this is that then the real logic part, the part they need to really solve, is the part that is solved for them."
What do you mean?
the MindStorm competition stuff still requires logic programming to do anything. And the competition usually involves many tasks that require different programs to complete.
Check out PicoCricket (Score:2)
For quality parts get Fischer Technik. (Score:3, Informative)
WeDo probably only appropriate at young end (Score:4, Informative)
We (my 9 YO daughter and I) have NXT. I've see WeDo, it is probably more appropriate at the lower age ranges, since it is more limited. I know people that teach robotics using lego, although I haven't done it myself.
First, philosophically, you have to decide if you want to go the "competition" (ie FIRST, Botball, etc) route, or more of an "educational constructionist" route. Personally, I think competitions set up a host of perverse incentives that work against true learning. Far better to set up "challenges", and let each kid (or team) see how far they can get. The learning is in the trying, not the winning.
How much money do you have? Lego works well with teams of two. Can you afford one kit per two kids? Also you need to handle the logistics of how to store/secure half-built robots between sessions. And you will also need to get good at inventorying Lego. Exotic Lego parts have a way of disappearing... you might find yourself on BrickLink more than you want to be.
NXT-G is not easy for kids to use, despite anything Lego tells you. Expect to spend some time on that.
So, having said all those negative sounding things, I don't really know of a better alternative than NXT for your sitation.... and my daughter and I *do* have a heaping pile of non-Lego robots of various kinds.
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree.
I ahve coachd LEGO teams with 10 members on the team.
Any person with 2 braincells can organize the team into different tasks.
You should look into it. There are many tasks in the competition, so programming can be broken up be task, and brainstorming a robot design works well in a large teams.
Presentation involves all the kids, as well as the other parts that are judged.
The kids learned a lot.
It's cool to watch them get a couple of programing concepts into their head and watch them create a progra
I'm a LEGO robotics coach. (Score:2)
The LEGO smart path is really the way to go.
Global competitions, sponsors can be easy to get, And build robots out of LEGO pieces can be easy and versatile. Latter on in high school they move up into bigger bots. I have only coached 4-5th graders. Next year my daughter will do it for the 4th grade class and my son will be on the 6th grade class.
Assuming the both show the same enthusiasm.
whoops not smart - FLL (Score:2)
First Lego league. Smart is a completly different project I am working on.
My apologies.
http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/homepage.html [usfirst.org]
http://www.usfirst.org/ [usfirst.org]
For a gentle intro try "blinkybugs" (Score:2, Interesting)
This is a really simple project, which can be found on Instructables, but one can also buy kits...
www.blinkybug.com
While it's a stretch to call them robots, they do interact in a way, and can help kids understand the basics of electricity and sensors. they antennae form a really simple spring switch, which triggers the blinking of their eyes (LEDs), and the body is a coin cell battery. I made some of these at a workshop at the Maker Faire a while ago.
Check out Lynxmotion (Score:2)
I'm not affiliated with these guys or anything, I've just used some of their stuff before. I build a real walking hexapod when i was in 9th grade, which is pretty far beyond 5th grade, but they may have something simpler, i dunno.
Actually, you may wanna look at the BOE bot, avaliable probably from parallax, but I'm not sure.
Anyway, i just love Lynxmotion. Might be for an older crowd, but they are good.
-Taylor
Drawbots (Score:3, Interesting)
LEGO Dacta (Score:2)
My brother and I went to a "class" thingy that used LEGO Dacta. Dacta was basically the precursor to Mindstorms, just less n00bified. You wrote the programs in actual code, not using LEGO's horrible GUI with blocks. Shortly after we completed the class two years in a row, LEGO released Mindstorms. I got it for Christmas that year and was very excited. That is, until I tried to program one of my bots. The stupidly-simple GUI for writing programs killed my interest in the whole thing.
My brother and I made so
Re: (Score:2)
I love the gui. That style or programming interface could be used to write 90% of the application that get written.
on the plus side, you can also use a myriad of other languages and IDEs to program them.
I think you killed your interest, not the IDE because if you were interested, you would have found out how to load other programs.
It's a great tool for learning fourth.
roblocks (Score:3, Interesting)
I feel obliged to mention my colleague's PhD thesis project from CMU, which he's now (I think) in the process of commercializing. It's called roblocks [roblocks.org] at the moment, and it's a modular robotic construction kit. Each block is an autonomous robot with onboard computation. Some blocks have sensors, others are actuators, and others can perform math. You can build different behaviors by connecting them together.
Roblocks are incredibly cool. Some may go so far as to say they are rad.
For very little kids (3-5) (Score:4, Insightful)
For the low end of that range, it is fun to PLAY robot. Explain the concept that robots only do exactly what you say, and then make some "commands" like "move forward", "turn left", "pick up object" and then work together to try to solve problems, like "how can we get the rubber snake into your sister's bed?". The kid plays the role of the programmer, the CPU, the robot motor (we use toy dump trucks typically for this), and the all-important role of the debugger.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most languages have a second person plural pronoun. For example, "tu" and "vosotros" in spanish. English lacks this, for no good reason, and this limits it's expressive power. Since we don't have a second person plural pronoun, we invented one. If you don't like it, tough.
Re: (Score:2)
"You" is ambiguous. WHen you address a group of people as "you", each person has to decide whether the speaker meant "me" or "us". It's usually clear from context, but it's still awkward. "You all" is good, but "y'all" is easier to say. Do you also have a problem with "can't" and "they're"?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Meh. Those kids weren't even remotely planned when the original Transformer cartoons came out. Oh, does that make me sound old?