Smart Pool Table

murk1e writes "The BBC reports that in this article that a smart Pool table has been invented. The full information is here. For more about the Physics of Pool, try this site, or for a game, try here."

Clippy

The technology behind James, who looks like a professional pool player, is the same Microsoft uses for its paperclip office assistant.

Uh oh, Clippy has invaded pool tables

Re:Clippy

that suits me fine. it's your shot, clippy comes along to tell you something utterly inane like "it looks like you're playing a popular western pastime, do you want me to write you a fucking letter?" and you've already got a pool cue in your hands...I can't think of a better user experience...

Re:Clippy

The technology behind James, who looks like a professional pool player

So he has a mullet, old faded AC/DC t-shirt (hanging out), worn out old blue jeans, home made tattoos that have H A T E on his fingers on one hand and L O V E on the other, a beer in hand and squinting from his cigarette smoke that he lit with his Harley Davidson Zippo lighter (he's never actually owned a Harley though) while he waits for his shot. When he takes his shot, he smashes the sweet baby Jesus out of it where ever possible.

Of course, the physics of pool has and never will enter his head, because pool comes naturally to him, what growing up in pool halls and all.

He's professional because he usually wins the local comp, which just covers his practice expenses.

I've seen this before

...sadly, I think it was in an episode of Quantum Leap [imdb.com], where Dean Stockwell used his handheld computer to calculate the angles.

Re:I've seen this before

Well, actually a professor at Columbia University (Dr. Tony Jebara) was just interviewed about his "new device [that] may turn billiards beginners into high-tech pool sharks". The article was at http://www.ny1.com/Living/technology.html [ny1.com]. It looks very cool. Also he just bought a pool table for the department to test his stuff on, and given that my office is just a few doors down from his, I will enjoy playing for hours (so much for my PhD).

Clippy...

'The technology behind James, who looks like a professional pool player, is the same Microsoft uses for its paperclip office assistant. '

"It looks like you're trying to pot the black, would you like help?"

Great.

The first rule of bar games...

"Never play pool with a man named after a state."

I'm a big fan of pool

One of the neatest and most practical shots in pool is the stop shot.

When the cue ball is very close to the object ball, this can be accomplished with the center ball. The cue ball slides to the object ball and stops dead as the object ball shoots ahead because of the collision. But most stop shots are done with draw. You use just enough draw that the cue ball stops sliding just as it strikes the object ball.

Of course, all of this may sound difficult to judge, but it is fairly easy with practice. You soon learn to adjust your speed and amount of draw, depending on the shot (distance and other requirements of the pool situation).

(Twelve drinks and 1/2K*M*V^2 later and you may find yourself with some extra $$$ and a few pool sluts to walk you home to your bedroom that night!)

It all boils down to:

It looks like you're trying to pot the '8' ball. Would you like me to:

( ) Show you the angle
( ) Pot it for you
( o ) Shut the hell up

fscking son of a...

"People do not speak to pool tables so we came up with this personalised system and people are happy to talk to him," explained Mr Larsen.

Uh, I never needed an AI assistant to speak to a pool table, but the number of curses you can apply to an inanimate object are limited. Kudos to them for offering a target for my rage and frustration.

smart pool table

My definition about a smart pool table:

1) Knows not to make smart alec comments like "Whoops" just when you're making that crucial shot to win the game.
2) Doesn't "eat" your money and give you no balls
3) Doesn't take your money and give you all the balls except one.
4) Actually has chalk you don't have to pay for - say on a piece of string.
5) Doesn't charge you ridiculous amounts for a game.
6) Is too smart to be in a pub.
7) Has recently submitted a phD thesis on game theory.
8) Reminds you when you've left out linebreaks posting to slashdot.

All this "laser" business reminds me of an old episode of Quantum Leap.

Re:smart pool table

All this "laser" business reminds me of an old episode of Quantum Leap.

Lasers are actually not practical for showing pool ball angles after the first bounce (even if the shooter takes imparted cushion spin into account with off centre shooting) due to the fact that the angle reduces after each successive bounce due to spin the cushions impart on the ball.

If you hit a ball hard at a moderate angle, intending to get the ball to bounce back and forth many times between two cushions, you will find that the angle will keep getting closer to 90 degrees to the cushions, until it actually appears that the ball is just bouncing back and forth parallel to the cushions 90 degrees to those being bounced off. Going from a moderate start angle to close to 90 degrees quite quickly.

I don't think photons suffer the imparted effects of cushion spin.

Also, not related to angle, but velocity, is that when a ball is first hit (on centre) it moves across the table surface initially without forward "rolling" spinning. The friction between the ball and table surface actually slows the ball down mostly up to the point where the rolling becomes "in step" with the velocity. When this ball hits a cushion, this rolling speed is slowed dramatically by the sudden braking effect of the ball pushing hard into the cushion and any rolling that remains after the bounce is quickly reversed as the ball now starts rolling in the opposite directing, again due to the friction of the ball against table surface. This in addition to energy being absorbed by the cushion (well, I don't like the term "absorbed" being used to describe energy "loss". The energy is converted to sound and heat) has the overall effect of making a ball travel much less than if it were to be hit with the same force without obstacles.

Carnival Pool

I hope the people who have the slanted pool tables at the carnival don't find out about this! Think of the implications!!

Oh great...

Well, it looks like I watched Donald in Mathmagic Land for nothing.

Bort.

Technology similar to clippy?

What exactly does that mean - and surely they could have come up with a better example...

I'm assuming that they mean that they use bayesian networks to help in their decision making about what type of shot the player is trying to make?
heck, thinking about it, I just cant see how that would work

Perhaps they just mean they have a picture of james (as it shows in the slide show [cpk.auc.dk] and thats what is similar to clippy...

I'd rather something that took the shot I told it!

I can see the angles, dammit! The hard part is getting the damned stick thing to poke the damned round white thing into the other round things at the angle I can see, without going down a damned hole thing, getting airborne, or knocking the damned round black thing down a damned hole thing!!!

Re:I'd rather something that took the shot I told

Eeeasssssyyy buddy.... Put doowwwnnn the pool cue...

M$

The agent "James" is based on the Microsoft Agents technology in their thesis

wonder how much the license will be to play pool on this thing?

light on the details....

I wonder if it will just calculate angle shots, or if it considers more complex shots like ones involving English or combo-shot situations in 9 ball.

Sounds like a good tutoring system nonetheless, but I also wonder how dependent a person will be on the laser lines. Kind of like a sniper without a scope, probably.

How do you impress the babes ...

with your solid knowlege of geometry if the pool table knows more about angles and proper shot alignment than you do.

The next product using this technology?

A putter for Rodney Dangerfield.

The only smart pool table

is one that will go get me a beer right before I want one.

My favourite quote about pool.

"There's no such thing as a fluke shot in pool. It's just an oversight in the calculations."

Does it play better after a couple beers?

Despite the hypocrisy, made glaringly obvious by his proficiency at the game, my dad loved to quote Mark Twain whenever the subject of pool came up:

"Proficiency at billiards is sign of a mis-spent youth."

So, does this project mean that I can possibly cite all of my college evenings as research?

Can we call it Al?

It can call us Betty!

(mangled Quantam Leap/Paul Simon reference)

What i want to know is...

How many people didn't read any of the links and went straight for the java pool game???

sweet. me too.

Eh?

"He congratulates you if you get a high score," said Mr Larsen.

Since when is there a "high score" in 9-ball?

Depends?

If going on the pool table in your local bar is a humiliating experience then help is at hand.

Yes, I hate it when I urinate on the pool table... ::blush::.

This reminds me of a Howie Mandell joke. (You know, that guy with the blown-up glove on his head.)

He likes to party, so one night he's at a club, dancing the night away. He literally does not stop dancing all night long, except to drink copious amounts of alcohol. Eventually, many hours later, his friends are amazed at his stamina, drinking skills, and RETENTION skills. They ask him, "Dude, you are amazing! Do you EVER go to the bathroom?"

"Depends."

No kidding...

... I actually came up with the idea that this could be done but did not have the drive/money/time to do it. Kudos to these folks! I would love to see their table in action!

As an aside, just as with any other skill, becoming a better pool player takes a little learning from someone who knows and lots of practice. If you want to learn to play pool better join a pool league. In the USA there is a great organization called the American Poolplayers Association (APA) [poolplayers.com] that runs leagues with handicapping systems so that no matter how good or bad you are you have a good chance of winning your match.

Once you have played pool once a week for a year you should notice a huge difference in your game.

hmmm...

I can see where this technology can be adapted to other sports and activities

Golf James : "I've noticed that you've landed in the rough again, would you like some help?"

Baseball James : "I've noticed that you've kicked dirt all over the umpire, would you like some help?"

Football James : "I've noticed that you're the Cincinatti Bengals, would you like some help?"

NASCAR James : "I've noticed that Todd Bodine has once again wrecked half the field, including yourself, and you're about to throw your helmet at his car on national TV, would you like some help?"

Extreme Skier James : "I've noticed that you're tumbling down a snow-covered icy slope with your legs and arms flailing at angles not normally associated with normal movement of the human anatomy, would you like some help?"

Create your own, share and trade with friends!

childhood pool trick

When I was a kid a friend of my father's had a pool table in his livingroom. I used to screw around on it. One day the guy showed me something really neat.

He put two balls right next to each other against the far bumper and balanced the 8-ball on top of them. He waleked around to the other end of the table and said "I'll bet you twenty bucks I can sink the eight-ball without touching the other two at all."

(Remember, I was 5 :) It looked impossible, so I took the bet. He smiled at me, made his hand into a fist and brought it down on the far end of the pool table as hard as he could. The two support balls slid sideways from the jolt and the eight-ball came gliding down towards the center of the table. He put down his cigarette, picked up his cue and sunk the eight in the corner pocket.

Cheap trick, but very clever. (I still owe him the 20) :)

Triv

Success At Pool?

1) Buy pool table.
2) Line up cue to laser guided tutorial system.
3) ???
4) Pocket!

This is so sad...

I love pool, comes right up there with computers, sex and food. I love it because it gives me a non-technical escape from my every day. It doesn't involve anything except technology from centurys ago, and a lot of math and physics. They should just let the game stay as a classic, and not try to always improve on things with lasers and computers and such.

No thanks

When I was a teenager, my best friend had a really nice table in his basement. By the time I left high school I was actually quite good at the game. But even when I was bad, I wouldn't have wanted a "smart" table. Part of the fun is really bolluxing up what should have been an easy shot, laughing at yourself, and learning how to do it right. The only "smart" table I want is one that knows more games than I do and will always be tabulating the score.

Off topic story now. When I was 16 there was a Danish exchange student in my circle of friends. I wanted her like mad, but hadn't found a way to get past that "good friends" stage. She was hot as all get out, and had an adorable way of mistaking what we were saying and/or not knowing the words, especially the slang. So we're all at my friend's place playing pool, and I just about won a game with an incredible shot on the 8-ball. But instead, the 8 hit the cue a second time, knocking in the cue. I lost, and exclaimed something about how I "double kissed"** it. Danish exchange student says "what's a 'devil kiss'?" Full deadpan, I said "step in that closet over there and I'll show you." She grins and accepts! All our friends' jaws drop, we head in the closet and come out 20 minutes later, breathless. Turns out all the guys knew I wanted her, and all the girls knew she wanted me, so they never said a word. Started a short-lived but highly passionate relationship that was broken up by her exchange parents. And that's my best pool story ever.

**"double-kiss" is when the cue hits the intended ball (in this case the 8) more than one time in a shot.

magic pool shot?

I'm not some pool expert, but did anybody see the picture [cpk.auc.dk] on that article [cpk.auc.dk] giving an explanation on how all that works?

The laser is supposedly showing the path of white ball which seems to me as if it is being hit straight on, then the white ball colides with the yellow ball (ball 1) which takes off at a completely different angle. Should we call this the "magic pool shot?"

Newton's First Law: An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

Physics of Pool

The real physics [pitt.edu][PDF] behind pool. This is much more stimulating than the "physics link" posted in the story.

Wow

The technology behind James, who looks like a professional pool player, is the same Microsoft uses for its paperclip office assistant.

He is also more encouraging than your mates down the pub.

"He congratulates you if you get a high score," said Mr Larsen.

Wow, that is some *sweet* technology. It will congratulates you if you get a high score.

if (score > HIGH_SCORE)
say("You got a good score buddy!");
else
say("You suck loser! Go do something productive!");

I wonder how long it took the geniuses at Microsoft to write that code.

free book on the physics of pool

There's a free book [playpool.com] on the physics of pool. Reviews here [theassayer.org] would be appreciated.

why this wont make you a pool shark

it may help a beginner who doesnt know the angles yet, but any decent player can tell you that you also have to know exactly where to hit the cue ball.

in the technical description it says this is designed for two-ball practice scenarios where you sink a ball and leave the cue ball in a particular spot. however in a real game, putting the cue ball where you want it will often require follow (topspin), draw (bottomspin), or left/right spin as well. the one picture of the laser path of the cue ball going off in a straight line doesnt quite match the reality where the cue ball's path is parabolic until it stops sliding on the table and begins rolling.

anyway, what separates the good players from the average is cue ball control and strategy, and strategy isn't covered by this machine so it'll still take practice, practice, practice to get better.

This Won't Work

This smart table calculates the angles, but the game of pool is about a LOT more than the angles. Or maybe I should say that there is a lot more to the angles than just straight geometry. For example, most people don't realize that if you spin the cue ball (whether on accident or on purpose) then the ball the cue ball strikes will pop off the cue ball at a different angle than if there was no spin on the cue ball. It is extremely difficult to put NO spin on the ball, and most players purposely spin the cue. It's just that the good players know how to re-calculate the angles needed based on what spin they are using.
anyway, this table seems like a big waste, but i guess in the end it's just a pool table.

Getting hustled by the table...

Great, just what we need. The pool table automated assistant James suggests you try the shot and draws little laser pictures about how easy it will be for you to make it. It's worked the last 10 times, but this time you've gotten overconfident on your betting abilities, and the table has just hustled your wallet.

In poker, they say the first thing you should do is look around the table and find the sucker, and if you can't find them, then it's you. Now you've got the *table* playing against you....

A better usage of lasers

Anyone who's played pool even a little knows what the best shots are, the tricky part is being able to cause that to happen. So I think a better usage would be to have the pool table use rangefinding to determine how you're holding the cue stick, and display where that will make the balls end up. Then you'd be able to adjust your stance & position and see the new results in real time. This would be much more beneficial for learning. After all, any idiot can say "You should hit that ball there." I doubt there's a bar or pool hall anywhere that doesn't already have several of these helpful "experts".

Fats Domino?

I'll go ahead and read the story tagline as having to do with Minnesota Fats (the billiards guy) instead of our Blueberry Hill-singing friend.

Get your Fats straight! Heh.

Targeting...

haiku

taking aim after
my fifth guiness, why is my
laser three feet wide?

/haiku

improving your game - personal experience

I was an OK player but did not waster as much of my youth as my brothers. So to improve: 1) take money 2) play for money - $5/game or drinks Funny how fat you improve real fast when real cash is at stake

Fact #1

...the Smart Pool Table is 11% better than the utterly stupid, useless, feltless Pool Table.

Eh?

Aim proxy

Aw, I was expecting a pool table with an aim proxy.

That would be neat. A bit of metal in each ball, and small electromagnets under the table. Subtle control, so that no trajectory changes by more than 2% or so. Using the overhead TV camera, the control system could make accurate course corrections.

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Re:the grapevine

Yeah, but it helps out those saddos who only ever read /.

BTW, the New Scientist article is here [newscientist.com]