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Satellite Radio - XM vs. Sirius?
from the decisions-decisions dept.
"So far I have gathered that XM seems to have better audio quality, and a larger selection of music channels. Sirius has less music channels, but more "commercial free" music channels and more talk channels. Also, it scares me that Clear Channel has a stake in XM -- does this mean XM will eventually turn to utter crap like every Clear Channel station seems to have? Does Clear Channel have enough ownership to have a say in programming?
I'm looking for more strengths and weaknesses from people who have used one (or better yet, both!) of the services. I'm leaning towards XM right now, with the Clear Channel issue being my main fright. Sirius streams their stations online, giving me a good sample. So far I have been fairly impressed. But, I like the fact that XM carries Art Bell, more than one 80's station, and VH1 content. It's a toss up, so I'm looking forward to some info from the Slashdot community."
Re:In Car MP3 Player Still seems like the best bet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In Car MP3 Player Still seems like the best bet (Score:5, Informative)
check out these:
Alpine 7897 (XM ready) [crutchfield.com]
Kenwood Excelon KDC-X659 (sirius ready) [crutchfield.com]
There's actually a bunch. Check Crutchfield [crutchfield.com]....
Re:In Car MP3 Player Still seems like the best bet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In Car MP3 Player Still seems like the best bet (Score:4, Insightful)
Then I got bored.
With your own music (or MP3s), you tend to listen to everything ever released by the bands you know and then little else. You see, the point of radio, for a lot of people, is that it exposes you to new music. Granted, with the Clear Channel monopoly, that's happening less and less, but the concept is still there.
My work hard drive died about two months ago, wiping out everything I'd gone to the trouble of ripping. Since then I've installed Spinner [spinner.com] and ripped maybe two or three albums. I now choose a genre I like so I don't have to listen to a load of junk that I'll never enjoy, yet I also get exposed to a lot of new music.
Sirius vs. XM (Score:5, Insightful)
Sirius to me seems to be the more professional of the two, where XM seem to be the "Clear Channels version" of the two. That is how I have always thought of them, which is interesting since this is my first finding out Clear Channels is a part owner.
I wouldn't give my money to XM if I have a viable choice. Remember, XM has had a head start as well, give Sirius a little time to get underway, then we can do a more fair comparison.
-Pete
Re:Sirius vs. XM (Score:4, Informative)
The two approaches have different plusses and minuses. With the geo-stationary birds, if you get a good signal in your driveway right now, you will most likely always get the same good signal there, while with the lower orbit birds the signal strength may cycle with position of the satellite. On the other hand, the lower orbit sats are much closer, and so might be able to get a stronger signal to you.
Neither approach has redundancy, as they need all their satellites for complete coverage. If one went down XM would have permanent dead zones, Sirius would have wandering dead zones. Take your pick.
XM's satellite info page [xmradio.com]
Sirius' fairly lame "how it works" (PDF) [onlinepresskits.com]
About the satelites (Score:5, Informative)
Sirius' three satelites are in elliptical orbits, and two of the three are over the continental US at all times. The orbits make the angles better (less likely to be blocked by building because the satelite is more likely to be overhead, even in Seattle), but makes doing ground based repeaters hella hard. Sirius rents bandwidth on K-band IIRC to beam signal to the ground based repeaters, which is more expensive and more complicated, but works nonetheless.
That third satelite doesn't do much for reliability. If you lose it, you're going to have areas of the country not getting signal for a good portion of the day, which isn't much better than having portions of the country not getting signal most of the day in the case of XM.
And as far as being money hungry, IIRC these are both publicly traded companies with corporate partners. They both want to make money, and neither of them has your best interests at heart no matter how good their marketspeak is. There is no good guy here. You can morally oppose Clear Channel, and XM by extension. Go ahead. Just remember that its your opinion, and you'll be fine.
Happy with XM (Score:5, Interesting)
I use XM (Score:5, Interesting)
The stake of Clear Channel in XM has very little to do with it. XM is mostly managed by GM and subsidiaries (like Hughes, aka DirecTV). The reason Clear Channel is involved is provide some of their local stations (like LA Kiss FM) onto the XM radio waves, however there are only 4-5 of these out of 100 channels.
There are also about 30 different "talk", but not your normal talk. You can get CNN, MSNBC, Weather channel, ESPN, CNN-SI, and various other "news" stations and the such. Basically, CNN Is just a stream of CNN Headline News, but it's nice to keep up on the news if need be.
Heck, XM even has Bluegrass if yer into it
And to be honest, XM does cut out like if you get stopped under a bridge, it takes a second to find it's way around or if you pass in between a couple big trucks. Basically, if your antenna gets blocked by any metal objects, it'll go out for a couple seconds until it switches to the other satelite.
Only room for one (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider the following: Which does more advertising? Who has more unit production? Basically, which has greater (cringe) mindshare? Of course, if you're willing to deal with a failing company and face buying a new head unit in a couple of years, be my guest.
Also, don't forget the rest of your sound system. Decide what you need and buy accordingly -- you almost certainly need a decent pair of componant speakers for the front and probably new, high-quality speakers in the back, not to mentioned the amps to drive them. You should also seriously consider a sub if you listen to hard rock, heavy metal or rap (among others). I have a pair of 10" subs in my trunk (largest that will easily fit in a tiny Mustang trunk) that are set up to be easily removed -- unplug the power and signal and pull 'em out if you need space for luggage or cargo.
Anyhow, don't just upgrade the head unit and go with your crappy stock sound system.
why why why why why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that before you take the plunge and get one of these things, your first priority should be figuring out, not the feature set, but if either company is likely to survive. Both XM [yahoo.com] and Sirius [yahoo.com] are gushing money (both lost over five bucks per share last quarter.)
What a drag it would be to spend 500+ dollars to install a system into your car's dashboard, and then have to rip it out in a couple years if the company goes belly up. At their current burn rate, I'd be willing to bet that at least one of the two companies will fail.
Plus, keep in mind that once you install one of these systems, you are going to be held hostage to any rate increases down the road (pun not intended.)
I personally think these companies took off during the go-go optimism of two years ago. For the money you'd spend on one of these things, you could get one of those hundred-CD units that goes into your trunk, and never worry about the company going belly-up.
Business health (Score:5, Insightful)
The Motly Fool recently shorted sirius [fool.com] believing their company to be overvalued. (That is not to say that their company will fail, stock price doesn't necessarily equate business health) The fool has quite a bit of discussion on each company.
It's a an important perspective.
-pos
I'd go with XM (Score:3, Interesting)
YALLMF (Yet Another Low Low Monthly Fee) (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, you get more channels, but how many do you really listen to? How many of the channels are really worthwhile--and how many are the audio equivalent of the "Knitting" channel on cable?
Yet another "Low Low Monthly Fee" to keep you chained to your position in the U.S. Economy. God forbid you have freedom.
Yet another free resource you now pay for. What's next, charge-per-page to read at the local public library?
Save your dollars, put them into retirement investments or CD's (the bank kind, not Limp Bizkit). Try making your self rich instead of the media giants for a change.
Strength of Network (Score:3, Informative)
XM has a strong ad campaign, has been out longer, is cheaper (10 a month vs 12.99? I think..), more people have heard of XM, and if I am going to as a production company go with one of the Satilite Radio networks, I am going to go with XM, because more people are going to use it.
In addition, I believe that XM has deals with some major car companies, to install XM radios on many of their cars, and some are prepaying to subscription fee (which in the scope of a car purchase isn't that much really). XM has better numbers (their stock that is). They only needed 60,000 users to break even i think, but they will have over a half million i think by the end of the year.
I might be wrong on a few of those facts, but I think I am right on most of them. Overall XM seems to be better (and my XM stock has performed alot better, I wouldn't touch Sirus at all, except to short it!)
Overall, check their stock news, etc.... its got some great info. You don't want a receiver that in one a year will be nothing more than a Busted Tech company reminder (think of BS Zelda on Nintendo, 300 dollars, and it didn't last more than 3 weeks...)
Insensitive Ask'er (Score:5, Funny)
This is a News for Nerds site, and Nerds everywhere are hurting, ravaged by the downturn in tech stocks and reduced spending by speculative investors everywhere. Instead we need articles on the proper techniques for dumpster diving and living on the "Second Harvest." That's the Stuff that Matters right now.
(jj)
I've had XM for a couple of months... (Score:3, Interesting)
A couple of things to think about:
1. Commercial free - not as important as I would have thought. Yes, lots of channels have commericials. I thought that breaking up the music like that would have annoyed me, but it didn't. I either listen to the commercial, or change the channel, just like TV. Don't be afraid of XM because it has more commercials.
2. If you're afraid of Clear Channel, don't listen to "20 on 20" or KISS-FM from LA. I doubt that Clear Channel is going to mandate a Britney Spears quota on XMU, Liquid Metal, or Unsigned, for example. And some of the corporate content is worth listening to. CNN en Espanol, ESPN Radio, Fox Sports Radio, Sporting News Network, and NASCAR Radio are all on my rotation. How can you not want 24 hour coverage of NASCAR? (Wait, don't answer that. I know I'm a redneck. Get over it.)
3. Don't worry too much about audio quality. Just as high bit rate MP3s still sound like MP3s, satelite radio is going to sound like satelite radio. I would say that the sound quality is generally more consistent than the FM stations around here, and richer than the AM stations, but its not like a CD or MD. I don't notice many digital artifacts on the music stations, and even less on the talk stations (although the bumper music for ESPN Radio's Sportcenter sounds pretty nasty, but that's not a deal breaker for me), but I do notice them. And music that was recorded with too much bass then mixed with too much bass will never sound bass-y enough, no matter how much I play with my equalizer. But the variety of options available makes up for any percieved shortcomings in the audio quality.
4. XM Comedy is worth 10 bucks a month all by itself.
Just my two cents.
Read this (Score:3, Interesting)
Q: Is the Net going to change radio at all do you think?
A: No, not yet. Not for a long time [because of the legal issues]. Greed is choking the Internet right now. It's definitely territorial. . . . The artists are greedy, they want their cut off the Internet, the record labels are greedy . . . . Everybody is so greedy that nobody can work on the Internet so there is going to be no radio on the Net, not even Internet radio stations. They all are going to start playing more independent. It's going to favor the independent artist; the unsigned artist really is who people are turning to because the unsigned artist isn't going to sue anybody.
They want the exposure, so is the Internet going to change anything for a while? No. There are so many court battles that need to be fought that haven't even been thought of yet. The only Internet radio I like listening to is Christian pirate radio. It's aggressive, it's all new bands that nobody ever heard of. Its great rock, great pop.
Another prediction is the success of satellite radio. The satellite radio companies that I invested in like two years ago are going to come sneaking up and they're just going to level local radio. Local radio will go under. . . . I'll pay $10 for commercial-free guaranteed. You start doing that and what is your local sponsors going to be saying? Why should I advertise on your radio when they're not even listening to you? They're listening to satellites, commercial-free; they're paying $10. When those numbers go up, so [does] XM Satellite Radio stock value, which Clear Channel has its fingers in. They own a big chunk of XM because they know better.
Q: Is that something that you're invested in as well?
A: Oh yes. Yes, I invested in it as soon as I heard about it. . . . When satellite radio kicks . . . there's going to be no more syndication. You put a talent like Howard Stern in the XM building and boom, he's syndicated instantly. All satellite shows are considered instant syndication. It's going to be like having cable TV in your car.
You're going to have so many selections. A&E has its own channel; Home Shopping Network probably has its own channel. There are 50 channels of music and 50 channels of news and entertainment. They're going to be able to fine-tune exactly what you want. If I want to listen to Hollywood gossip there's going to be one channel just for Hollywood news. If I want to just hear about the planet, there might be a Nova channel. Local radio is nowhere near that level. I don't know if you spend much time in Los Angeles, but we have some of the worst radio in the United States. . . . XM and Sirius are going to be really good if they play their cards right and Clear Channel is very smart for being apart of that.
Q: Do you see XM as the winner, as opposed to Sirius?
A: Yes and two reasons. Sirius had a lead when they first started with Cosby backing them and they were at the top of Rockefeller Center and they had three satellites instead of XM's two. The tables turned when Sirius wasn't ready to launch on schedule. The car dealers weren't ready for them and Sirius announced they had to up their rates past $10 before they even launched. XM launched before them and XM now is running commercials full time and XM has the lead. If you look at their stock, Sirius is at $5 a share and XM is at twice that. There's an interesting battle going on; XM would love to beat out Sirius before they can even get off the ground. You always see the David Bowie falling through the roof or B.B. King falling through the roof, those commercials. They're going hard. I see it being a huge thing; I see it being in every car and every radio in the next three years.
Top 5 Signs That Sirius Is The Way To Go (Score:5, Informative)
Top 5 Reasons:
1) No commercials.
2) 3 Satellites
3) Just released the PAC v4 Audio Codec; derived from a series of unique technologies that include the latest generation of psychoacoustic modeling, based on a deeper understanding of hearing physiology. This new coded beats XM's previous audio comparison hands-down. (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020610/nym024_1.html
4) NPR.
5) Sirius has the business advantage of being the second on the market. They can learn from XM's mistakes without making a fool out of themselves.
5a) The cool little dog logo.
I own an XM Radio (Score:3, Informative)
It's that good. Where to start....
1. Content: Excellent. The 6 or 7 rock channels are superb and all are commercial free. I start my day out with Fred, Channel 44, and listen to a little alternative music. Move over to Unsigned, channel 51 and listen to the new bands that are up and coming. Some really good stuff there. Decide I want to make the commute a little better, so I flip over to CHannel 160, Comedy XL and enjoy some of the stand up bits they play constantly from people like Margaret Cho, Chris Rock, Denis Leary, and a whole bunch of other talented, dirty comedians. Next switch is to BBC World Service, then onto Discovery Radio News where I listen to a bit about the Endeavour Mission to the Space shuttle.
Memorial Day Weekend: XM Special channel 30 plays surf music all weekend long to kick off the start of the summer. Excellent!
I can literally listen to more music than I could possibly have in my car in the form of $15 CDs with 12 songs on them. Bluegrass, country, the best of the 70s, Classic rock,Opera, Broadway shows, they even had a John Williams special on the Show-Tunes channel and I was driving down the road listening to the Vader Theme from Star Wars. They also had Blues Traveller perform live, interviewed Mic Jagger once, and many others.
Talk- Great selection. Phil Hendrie, the funniest man in radio is on in the afternoon on 166, The Buzz.
2. Audio Quality and clarity- Excellent for the most part. I'd say the sound quality is just below that of a CD, but I have the Sony plug and play unit that interfaces into my cassette player in my car. I didn't want to get a new head unit. It sounds excellent at home plugged into my receiver. The sony unit also has a USB connection on the back for future connectivity with a PC, I assume.
I live in Los Angeles, and in some parts of the City, the signal will go uninterrupted even under bridges. I was under the impression they didn't have the audio repeaters up yet (due to fights with the Cell phone companies and the NAB), but in some areas of LA you can be in a deep dark tunnel and still hear your radio. In the suburbs, however, a bridge will temporarily knock out your reception.
Sirius isn't even nation-wide yet. They don't anticipate a full launch until August. As far as Clear Channel investing in XM, it's not a worry. XM is selling a service. XM is the new HBO of Radio and they are not going to screw it up. It's their business model to say they are different from FM, Clear Channel is just providing content, especially the talk shows. And BTW, Sirius is also being invested in by Infinity/CBS, another major radio player.
As far as advertising, on the talk channels you may have up to 20 minutes per hour, but on XM content music channels, you won't find more than 6 minutes per hour, and there are 30 commercial free channels.
GO with XM. You will not regret it, I promise you. The variety of the content is just remarkable, you will want to drive around more or bring the unit into your house just to explore. This is the future fellas, I was skeptical at first, but now I don't want to be without it.
watch what you buy. (Score:4, Informative)
There is nothing on the market that has XM capability (or any aftermarket for that matter) that can integrate with today's advanced vehicular computer systems. getting XM and losing all that is not a worthwile trade off. and the XM tuner is a pure joke.. the reason for XM radio is for CD quality, not to listen to really crappily modulated FM (as the modulators are of the crappiest quality.)
Pay really close attention, if you buy a cheapie car that has no systems integration then you are set, but most any modern car with luxury options cannot have the radio replaced without losing a ton of features.
Re:watch what you buy. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:watch what you buy. (Score:4, Funny)
The commercial for the Aztek should read:
Aztek. The bounding box for the Ford Focus.
XM Radio (Score:3, Informative)
The XM radio has three separate components. You have the antenna, which attaches to the top of the vehicle, then you have the decoder which decodes the satellite signal. Finally, you need some sort of receiver, like an XM compatible head unit. XM radio can also be installed by putting an FM modulator in, requiring no replacement of the head unit. You also have the option of purchasing an XM compatible head unit, however. This is nice because everything is all in one unit, but if this isn't possible, you get a small square control device for it.
It's also important to remember that if you have a Pioneer head unit that's XM compatible, you *have* to have a Pioneer decoder. A friend of mine has a Sony XM compatible head unit, and he's still waiting for Sony's decoder to come out. As far as I know, Pioneer is the only one that has a complete decoder/modulator combination in place.
As far as Sirius goes, I've never heard of it, and I've never seen any head units supporting it. Sounds like a bad idea, to me. Overall, I spent about 300 for the install/setup, and it's 10 bucks a month.
Go XM Radio. I like mine. CDs are stale. (Score:3, Informative)
Choose your receiver carefully. Don't let them sell you an "FM Modulator" -- hardwire your receiver to get all that sound quality you pay for. After all, an FM Modulator can only sound as good as FM.
The Sony receiver is nice, and I like that it is removable. However, it has some drawbacks. The blue-backlit screen is terribly blurry and hard to read, especially at a quick you-should-be-driving glance. It only has five presets, which is fewer than I would like on a lineup of 100 channels.
The XM programming so far has been terrific. No complaints there. Ethel rocks.
For all those hosers and thread-crappers saying "Get an MP3 player", "Get a CD Changer", you miss the point! I'm tired of listening to the same CDs I've heard before. Where do you go to hear something new? Your own CD collection? Your own MP3s? I go to the radio, and XM Radio beats FM.
XM has satellite problems (Score:5, Informative)
http://dc.internet.com/news/article.php/2101_89
I've read that in as little as 2-3 years they will have to start shutting down channels. And I can't see them being able to replace the satellites so soon.
Cash wise, Sirius has more money available, while XM has been close to going broke for the past year.
XM's ties to Clear Channel also bother me. CC has ruined local radio in many a market, mine included.
For $2 more a month, Sirius has NO commercials at all on ANY of the music channels. THAT, to me, is worth it, and the ONLY reason why I'd go with one of these.
Isn't the whole point of getting one of these things to get greater diversity of programming, and get away from having penis enhancment and hair restoration snake oil, plus annoying car dealer ads blasted at you for 6-10 minutes at a time between song sets?
I don't like the idea of paying for music radio, that I can get for "free", when it's also going to have ads. And given XM's financial condition (and ties to Clear Channel) there is no guarantee that the length of the stopsets won't increase to resemble typical commercial FM radio.
National Public Radio (Score:3, Insightful)
Sirius is excellent (Score:3, Informative)
Are you sure that's your only question? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not an audiophile.
The little lady and I were recently in the market for trying something new out with our tax refund. So, the option of satellite radio came up. We spend enough time commuting that it was going to be a respectable thing to do for entertainment. What do you do? Well, you go to a store, listen to the samples, and make the best decision you can.
So, we went to websites, read all the selections possible, restricions on buildings, costs, etc. Then, to Best Buy, Circuit City, all the brick and mortar places that would have a sample. Each and every one sounded like VBR MP3s at 96kbps. Sure, some of it was better than FM, but most of it was just different bad quality. I figured, despite any technical hurdles, the stores would have these things put together in the best possible configuration they could to show the gadgets off and drive some sales. Now, if none of their "demos" could get it right, my money is not going anywhere.
I realize, they were in a building, but this was their opportunity to shine! Stick the frickin antenna outside! Or did they? Salespeople didn't know the difference.
Know what you're buying. Make sure that you listen. Don't assume "CD quality" when it says "digital quality". You'd just be telling the digital cable and satellite people their marketting was right. Us Nerds/Geeks have to prove that someone understands.
And remember, you can't spell "geek" without double-e.
Tape recorder (Score:3, Interesting)