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Pedal Powered Wireless Networked Computer? 93

Posted by Cliff from the now-that's-just-too-cool dept.
Friends of Jhai asks: "An NGO called Jhai Foundation, which is building Internet learning Centers in Laos has enlisted Computer Hall-of-Famer Lee Felsenstein to build a cheap, locally assembled, wirlelessly networked PC and communications system. The current details of the machine are here and the application is here. They are looking for similar systems under way that they might work with or which might be ready for deployment. Anyone have any URL's we can check out?" Great! Now you can get your computing and exercising done at the same time! What other types of technology have people managed to adapt to man-power as opposed to boring ol' AC outlets?
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Pedal Powered Wireless Networked Computer? More

Pedal Powered Wireless Networked Computer?

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  • .. just to pedal fast enough to get up to 55 FPS in quake3
    • Man, that's nothing. I co-locate about 20 Sun servers with the WWF!
      • "I co-locate about 20 Sun servers with the WWF!"

        Yeah, I guess all those pandas and giraffes generate a lot of power...
        If you were talking about the World Wrestling Federation, it's now the 'WWE' or something like that... the World Wildlife Fund made them change their acronym a few months (?) back.

        - Jester
    • What about crank power?
    • OH my gosh. That would be just insane. But I do admit it would be a great way for a true geek to get his excercise. Just think of it. Your batteries are running low, the storms are raging outside, no power, wireless lan, and everyone's playing Unreal and is so deeply involved that they immediately switch over to their petal power to keep on fragging and next thing you know you're heaving and sweating with the game. Wow, now I have an excuse to excercise and frag at the same time! Now if they could just invent the holodeck, then I could frag in real time. :D
    • I have to start taking steroids.... just to pedal fast enough to get up to 55 FPS in quake3

      Or stop spending every single day sitting in front of the computer eating cheetos and pudding snacks inbetween McD's and Taco Bell.

  • one place to start (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    http://www.pedalpower.org, see Projects->Maya Pedal

  • Hopefully a typo (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Alceste ( 138400 )
    The link provided shows these energy drains:

    Computer: 5.5 Watts

    Display 13 Watts

    Printer (idle) 12 Watts (with inverter)

    Printer (printing) 48Watts (with inverter)

    Now, is this just a typo, or does a printer standing idly by truly drain twice the power consumed by the operating computer.

    I'm guessing the former. I looked quickly for a link webmaster of the site but in my minute of searching found nothing.
    • That's a dot-matrix printer, probably driven by stepping motors. Stepping motors consume power even when stationary.
      • That's crazy stuff... I guess they're using dot matrix because there are a ton of those lying around in wait....

        However, given that you can by a useable ink jet at target for around 30 bucks, maybe the project will given up the noble intentions of employing dot matrix printers and go with (what I assume would be) more efficient ink jets.

        Does anyone have #'s for the ink jets?
    • P=VI (power = voltage x current)

      While thats a gross simplication of the power consumption of a computer -- its not hard to imagine that a printer with moving parts requires much more voltage and current then a computer which is pretty much stationary save for the hard disk (requires alot of current to spin up then just a fraction afterwords).

    • Crap, my Athlon processor (Palomino @ 1.53GHz) alone uses up more than 50 watts at idle... I don't think this power source is very practical for modern x86 systems.
  • If people are gonna be doing manual labor at their computers, they'll need more energy.
  • I can see some major problems coming down the road. For one thing, how do you fairly timeshare Lance Armstrong across all of the Laotian gamers?

    Le Tour de France [letour.fr]

  • The good old soviet stuff... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by petrim ( 533715 ) on Saturday July 27, 2002 @03:30PM (#3965018)
    The real masters of man-powered accessories were definitely the red flag guys. I've seen and touched at least gems like
    -hand-powered flashlight: you squeeze the handle to generate light. Works, but takes a superhuman to keep the light bright enough to be useful. Good if you only need a flashlight 2 seconds at a time once a day.
    -wind-up shaver: turn a handle for a good five minutes to get 30 seconds of buzzing. Wouldn't try if it really works.

    Both very recommended items for generating lively discussions at parties. Available in second hand stores throughout the baltic countries.
    • Actually, there's some good wind-up stuff available now. A couple years back, I bought a wind-up AM/FM radio, which also has DC and solar capability. The solar doesn't work too well... if you're even the slightest bit in the shade, it kicks out, and even in the sun, it has problems. However, I wind it for about 45 seconds, and at a decent level of volume, it stays on for 15 minutes... If I turn the volume down so just I listen to it, it's more like 35 minutes.

      Same company advertises a wind-up flashlight... haven't got around to buying it yet, I might someday, but how do I find it in the dark?
    • The real masters of man-powered accessories were definitely the red flag guys.

      As an A.C. posted, the Russians have the Universal Translator [ectaco.com]

  • If they'd used Windows, then there could've been problems.

    "Let's see...Start...Shut Down...OK...there we go. Hmmm, seems to be taking a while to shut down. Better keep pedalling in case we accidentally shut it off early."

  • The ultimate Geek workout (Score:4, Funny)

    by ericdano ( 113424 ) on Saturday July 27, 2002 @03:34PM (#3965027) Homepage
    Imagine that all those over weight geeks (*cough* cowboy neal) who would be slim if they had to pedal to play on the computer. All those stats that america is getting fatter, etc. Make those gaming kids have to pedal to play PS/2, or Gamecube, or PC games...... It could be a great thing.
    • "I believe the [existence] of women is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
      From this I deduce that you have a relatively small experience of women. Not that men are a source of constant joy to womankind either, mind. If the existence of sex proves anything about God, it is that he(?) has a rather cruel sense of humor.

      Benjamin Franklin said this originally, only he was talking about beer, which, I think, is a statement much closer to the truth.

      Please feel free to moderate this as offtopic, since it certainly is, but some sigs must be answered. I posted without the bonus...
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Tomorrows news (Score:5, Funny)

    by riflemann ( 190895 ) <`riflemann' `at' `bb.cactii.net'> on Saturday July 27, 2002 @04:00PM (#3965086)
    Local laos man suffers sudden heart attack

    A man in Laos suffered a sudden heart attack when the computer he was powering by pedal received a massive DOS attack and quadrupled its power needs.
    Local authorities beleive the DOS attack was caused after a neighbour, whom he has had many problems with, posted the address of the pedal powered computer to a popular web site.

  • Heh (Score:1)

    by Skreech ( 131543 )
    Anyone have any URL's we can check out?

    Yeah, anyone got any web servers we can crash and networks we can flood?
    • The poor guy who was pedaling the webserver had a heart attack and died, due to so many requests to his server. He had no chance to rest...

      Error 404: Cyclist redundancy check failed.

  • Great... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    now people will have leg/foot problems in addition to hand RSI.

  • Alternative systems (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sakusha ( 441986 ) on Saturday July 27, 2002 @05:51PM (#3965428)
    I have some alternative suggestions for low-power, easily self-manufactured products that will be appropriate for this project. For the most common needs, users will be satisfied by the Portable Engineering, Numeric Computation, & Illustration Recorder, and the storage medium referred to as the Portable Accumulative Permanent Encoding Recorder. The P.E.N.C.I.L and P.A.P.E.R. system requires no power to operate and can be manufactured in any low-tech country with local materials.
    This story reminds me of what happened when someone first tried to bring the internet to Nepal. They tried to find a local English-speaker for a contact person, they could only find one or two, and they were not interested in the project. They said they were far too busy working with foreign countries that were helping install sewers and electricity.
    All this project is going to do is make poor countries even poorer. They can make all the pedal-power systems they want, but still have to buy computer hardware from abroad, using hard currency. I urge people to stop and think about whether this computer stuff is what third-world countries really NEED. Maybe someone should ASK them what they need, instead of suggesting projects based on what WE think they should need. I betcha they'd ask for things like Vitamin A tablets and refrigerators and AM radios.
    • But Vitamin A tablets and refrigerators are cost items. Whereas it is proven third world countries possessing computers can create whole new economies by selling resultant products and services to developed nations, as India and Eastern Europe, for example, do.

      • Re:Alternative systems (Score:3, Informative)

        by sakusha ( 441986 )
        My sister used to go to Guatemala and El Salvador in the summers, and work with the local women setting up weaving cooperatives. From watching her over the years, I can personally assure you that it is completely unnecesary to use computers to sell products to the advanced nations. It DOES take trucks, ships, roads, etc. Computers are the wrong end of the infrastructure to develop.

    • Re:Alternative systems (Score:2, Informative)

      by keynet ( 581695 )
      OK, time to set a few things straight.

      1. The local villages asked for a system that would let them do this. Jhai don't do anything unless they are asked and local ownership is what makes their projects work.
      2. Power consumption. No hard drive, it uses a big flash card and has no moving parts.
      3. They are using dot matirix because the refills are cheap and can be done locally. While inkjets are not expensive they have trouble standing up to the environment and the refills cost a bomb, of which there are already too many in Laos.
      4. No squids or coconut palms, Laos doesn't have a shoreline it is a landlocked country
      5. Power source. There are plenty of fit people in rural villages in Laos. Everyone works as hard a Lance Armstrong just to stay alive.
      6. Webmaster contact on TEN Site. Look for the link on every page that says "Contact"
      7. I assume that the answer about other similar projects is "No"

    • Maybe someone should ASK them what they need, instead of suggesting projects based on what WE think they should need. I betcha they'd ask for things like Vitamin A tablets and refrigerators and AM radios.

      notice any internal contradiction here?

  • 5 watt computer? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    - don't care about the pedal power, we run on solar here. I am more interested in this 5 watt computer. Anyone know this beast they are talking about? 5 watts is a piece of cake with one panel, heck, 50 watts is emininetly doable with a small panel. Pedaling is a big waste of time when you are a third world person and usually have to be outside working most of the time, whereas a solar panel is chugging along during the day charging your batteries.

    • Re:5 watt computer? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by keynet ( 581695 )
      The system will be able to have solar power but in the first instance there is the cost factor, a car battery will be needed anyway and a bike is very cheap.

      Secondly, this is Laos, it may be tropical but in the monsoon there ain't much sun. Also, maybe a few turns of the crank is how someone who can't read or write, even in Lao, pays for the message to be written and sent, then read back.

      Third. A lot of the communication will be between local communities and their members who have left for work in other places and send home some money or want to buy approriate gifts for local cultural events. eCommerce is not necessarily about selling ethic items to rich people. Have a look at the figures for Grameen Phone and Ethiogift.

    • You can get more on the TEN Site at Jhai PC - A Computer for Most of the World
      http://www.techempower.net/0/editorial.asp?aff_id= 0&this_cat=Projects&obj_id=794&action=page
      and Jhai System Development Status
      http://www.techempower.net/0/editorial.asp?aff_id= 0&this_cat=Projects&obj_id=796&action=page If you are interested in the application off grid, contact direct. Earl Mardle Information Manager TEN

  • a few urls (human powered electronics) (Score:4, Informative)

    by xof ( 518138 ) on Saturday July 27, 2002 @07:36PM (#3965748)
    I did not find URLs for hand-powered military transmitters (but would be interested to get one). ? See also 'human powered flight' (Gossamer Condor), there are also submarines I think ;-)
    Don't exercice too much, keep some blood for the brains.

    ...weaving the web (connecting things, so other people can find too)
  • What happens when the pedalling kid gets tired and takes a brief rest? Will you have to scandisk or fsck every time?
  • ... last (southern) summer when I spent a couple of weeks on vacation at an unpowered camp ground beyond reach of even cellular coverage.

    It soon got to the point where it would have detracted from my holiday less if I had been able to write more freely that my iBook batteries allowed.

    But even for the rest of the year, there is some appeal in the idea of being able to do something for cardiovascular fitness while we work.

    So there really might be a market amongst relatively affluent nerds for early implementations of pedal powered computing, though maybe sans printer.

    Then if the third world continues to see wisdom in leaping straight into the information age as a tactic for improving the rest of their lives the technology might be got to the point needed to make economic sense.

    A lifetime ago, the lives of settlers in the Australian outback were improved by the Royal Flying Doctor Service and the School of the Air [nt.edu.au], both of which were made effective by Alfred Traegar's [wilmap.com.au] development of the pedal wireless and a morse code keyboard.
  • The first time I heard about it, Gilligan was pedaling a dynamo in an episode of Gilligan's Island. Then he stopped pedaling.
  • I read about this inventor who created a wind up radio that is apparently pretty effecient. Worldlink has this story [worldlink.co.uk] about him. And I believe that I read in Wired that he was now trying to create a pair of shoes that would generate enough electricity to power a cell phone.
    _______________

  • I haven't notices any mention of the SOLO [explan.co.uk], a project to develop a RISC workstation for use with renewable energy resources in third world countries.

    The Solo is an ultra-low power, transportable computer designed to operate from a number of different power sources including solar panels and lead-acid vehicle batteries. Its ultra-low-power design enables it to be used indefinitely away from sources of mains electricity.

    Solo is a transportable rather than a portable computer. The entire device can be solid state, having no disc drives or moving parts. The base operating system is in ROM, applications in Flash RAM and the usual RAM for workspace. For certain software requiring ongoing disc-access, a 1-inch microdrive replaces the internal Compact Flash. It uses a TFT Liquid Crystal Display, which may optionally be touch sensitive, removing the need for a separate keyboard and mouse. It may be supplied in a variety of configurations and screen sizes depending on the location of the manufacturer and their intended market.

    The Solo is designed to be assembled and supported by manufacturing companies based within Third World countries thereby offering employment within a high-technology industry without moving to an advanced westernised city.

    Also, the idea of using pedal generators is not new, but not yet well developed. The Light Project [lightuptheworld.org] uses pedal-generators and storage bateries to power white LED lamp to provide indoor lighting in third-world countries for living working and education.

  • Using already working hardware you could hack together any palm with IR, an IR phone(for neting), and add on a palm keyboard. Now you atach that to your Car batery/ Bike generator and you have a working human powered computer. Mind you its not runing linux but who cares it works. You could eaven use one of thows large screened palms with the built in key board.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.04/approtec. html

    Check out this, the MoneyMaker pump. Man-powered irrigation. This is the way to bring computers to impoverished nations... let them irrigate and farm, and then eventually they can buy their own computers.


  • Beware of car generators [awea.org] to produce electricity : they need high rpm's and are efficient (to be checked, I am not sure) when producing hundred's of watts (tens of amps at 12 volts).

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