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Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost?
Posted by
Cliff
on Tue Aug 13, 2002 06:07 PM
from the ethics-in-the-diamond-age dept.
from the ethics-in-the-diamond-age dept.
hardDiamond asks: "I'm going to get engaged. I know my 4 C's. I know I'm going to get screwed by the jeweller, but that's okay: after all, a diamond engagement ring is a time-honoured tradition... NOT. Having checked out the goods, looked for the flaws, I found the biggest one of all. Diamond engagement rings are the creation of a well orchestrated advertising campaign for most of the last century - according to this article.
Would you buy one for the love of your life? I know my girlfriend would love a diamond, but ethically I have my doubts. Diseased-miners, child slave labour, cartel inflated prices... and as if that wasn't enough, diamonds have no resale value. Naddah. Zilch. They'll sell you the shit, but damn it, they're not taking it back at any price. So what have my fellow slashdotters done with regards to engagement rings? What's a good substitute for diamonds? My girlfriend understands my thoughts regarding diamonds, but deep down, I'm sure she would like a diamond. Even a small one." I've never even thought about questioning such a time honored tradition, but now I'm curious. Have any of you looked at the issues surrounding diamonds and found them wanting? What alternatives have you found and were they acceptable?
After researching this a bit, one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence. Such diamonds, for want of a better term, have been named "conflict diamonds". For those of you interested in following up on this subject, here are a few more links:
For those of you who have a subscription to Science News, the cover story, this month, deals with this issue as well.Fatal Transactions
Conflict Diamonds: Sanctions and War
The Campaign to Eliminate Conflict Diamonds
The Kimberly Process, which will attempt to track diamonds to their origin. This is to begin in November.
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Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost?
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Re:The Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this misplaced desire, partly formed by marketing hype and peer pressure? Yes. But so is my lust for say, a new BMW 5-series, or even the latest 2.6 GHz Pentium.
I spent a bunch on my wife's rock, which felt to me like 'wasted' money, but I have to say it's made her happy. Before you say she's all about the money though... she really isn't very materialistic at all, but getting that nice diamond really meant something to her. When the time came to spend money of other things, such as our wedding plans, or even when I ask her what she wants for a birthday gift, she is quite economical.
Beyond that, though, I also guess that over the course of our marriage, I'll probably spend ten times more on computer upgrades and other "toys" for myself (that she could care less about) as I will on jewelry for her (that I could care less about), so I guess I can't really complain! Probably it'd be the same for many other people here...I think that's something most of the techno-geeks here should keep in mind.
Indeed (Score:4, Funny)
Didn't want to fuel that whole "more time with the computer" thing you know
There are other countries... (Score:5, Informative)
Where?
Canada.
What? Canada?
There are only Igloos and Eskimos (Inuit) up there, right?
Not so, there are also Polar Bears.
http://www.siriusdiamonds.com/home.htm
If you're Canadian, buy Canadian.
If you're American, buy North American.
Just a suggestion.
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Funny)
To all the replies that say that diamonds should be bought she replied "Whipped!" "That one's whipped too!"
Re:They missed the best selling point! (Score:5, Funny)
You wish you could make your girlfriend QUIET.
=)
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
They're only worth the cost if they make her happy.
But then, the focus should be on what can you do to please the woman you love, not whether you can or should afford to buy things she may not even care about.
Me, I think the whole diamond=love thing is bullshit. Want your woman/man to know you love her/him? Don't fuck around; don't lie; pay attention and listen; be free with the compliments and sparse with criticism.
Oh, and because this is
Re:The Answer WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
Further more, do you think there is some correlation between the relative size of the diamond to marital success - I think not. I would even guess there might be a negative correlation.
When I got married I felt pressured (form others not my wife) to my a diamond. Recently after reading stories of chopped limbs, rape, child conscription, guerrilla warfare, etc. orginating in the major diamond producing areas of the world we decided to sell the diamond and donate the money to a charity working in Sierra Leone.
Just do a google search on "Conflict Diamonds"
Re:The Answer (Score:4, Funny)
Think about it... Made in Canada by skilled craftsmen and it will last an eternity. Get aircraft grade for extra strength. Sure you can wimp out and get one with a diamond, or gold and support the slave labor in hotter than hell diamond pits n Africa, but why?
http://www.titaniumrings.com
SR-71, Spacecraft, Mountain Bikes frames, Medical Tranplants. Modern man always uses Titanium where it counts. Put it on your girlfriends finger today!
High tensile bolt cutters (Score:4, Funny)
Besides, it's motivation to stay trim taut 'n' terrific, isn't it? (-:
He could always be proactive and fatten her up before the wedding, before sizing the ring...
Material Science Ignorance (Score:4, Informative)
Dude, I don't want to make you sound stupid or anything, but the lack of information about materials out there is astonishing. It really bothers me. I feel obligated to straighten out your misconseptions. After all we don't want the misinformation you spread to spread too far.
So let me start with the hardness issue:
The hardest materials known to material science today are ceramics, and your right, diamond is at the very top of the list. Now anyone whos taken a material science course at college should know that hardness is closly related to tensile strength. Now here are the tensile strength values for both diamond and top of the line titanium alloys (note these are approximations):
Strength(diamond) ~ 8000-10,000 MPA
Strength(titanium) ~ 1000 MPA.
As you can see, diamond is ten time stronger than titanium and therefore ~ ten times harder.
Its 3 times stronger than steel and half the weight.
Really? I don't think so buddy, good steel is actually stronger than titanium. These are the figures for the hardest possible steel and hardest possible titanium alloy (approximate):
Strength(titanium) ~ 1000 MPA
Strength(steel) ~ 1900 MPA
You are almost correct about the weight:
Density(titantium) ~ 5 MG/m^3
Density(steel) ~ 7.5 MG/m^3
If you want to be anal about it, the weight titantion is 3/4 the weight of steel and not 1/2
Anyway, it's alright... not everyone's a mechanical engineer out there.
"Ah yes, another problem that can be solved by bending"
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Funny)
And some additional tips.
-You better remember each and every anniversary. When you met, the first date, when you proposed and yeah, when you got committed (I got hitched on 50th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, so the news gives me a tip off, lest I forget)
-Birthdays. Its ok to forget age. Or at least preface it with "well you don't look a day over".
-Valentines day. A biggie. Plan ahead. They can spot last minute shopping efforts a mile away. A six pack and a candy bar don't cut it.
-And practice your responses to the following: Do I look fat? Do you still love me? What are you thinking? Do you think she's good looking? A moments hesitation will land you in the dog house.
Good luck on your incarceration.
Let's give this some thought (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a threat, and a scare tactic, pure and simple. In the society of the United States, in dating, the man has innumerable responsibilities which mostly involve spending money, whereas the woman has nearly none. Diamond dealers, and you, Chester K, want me to believe that if I don't buy a diamond, I'll be in big trouble with my lady friend, and maybe I don't even love her. But just to be fair, let me see if I follow your "logic."
*Are you a Star Wars fan? If so, then every single piece of star wars crap [imdb.com] ever marketed is worth the cost.
*Are you a Catholic? If so, then you agree that the Jews needed to be tortured to death during the Spanish Inquisition.
If it were true that buying a diamond (hereafter referred to as "clear carbon crystal") is a necessary part of loving a woman, then I would by all means buy her a diamond.
And even though I'm not necessarily brainwashed, if it were true that in order to convince a woman that I loved her, I had to buy her a diamond, I might still do it. But if she's that stupid/stubborn, I might have trouble falling in love with her.
And let's be fair - it is by no means human nature to spend a maybe a month of your life working purely for a tiny chunk of otherwise-worthless, not-so-rare rock because if you don't your supposed life partner will think you don't like her. Even in western cultures, that particular superstition is fairly recent. In Africa, or Japan, or South America, the two notions are not connected at all. In some countries, it is customary for the parents of the woman to pay a dowry to the family of the man, and vice versa in others.
I am willing to do things that I don't think make sense, for the sake of my girlfriend, even if she doesn't reciprocate (and it sure seems like women aren't expected to do so). I'd buy her flowers, or greeting cards. But if she needs a sizeable chunk of my net worth to be wasted just to believe I love her, then maybe she has trust issues - and if not, if people really do need that kind of proof, why hasn't she spent several grand on me? Why hasn't the sexism whistle been blown on this one, now that every instance of the word "mankind" has to be changed to "humankind," and "woman" is often spelled "womyn" to avoid the word "man?"
Sigh. I have a lot of frustration with the way dating works around here.
Re:Let's give this some thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you ever been in love?
I'm stupid in love with this girl. Have been for years. And she loves me back. I know this because of all those times that she didn't kill me, even though I deserved it.
I can make her happy. I'm not quite sure why, but for some reason I have this ability. And nothing in the world feels better than making her happy. Period.
I also have opinions about politics and human rights and whatnot. But-- sorry to be so frank-- all of that stuff takes a back seat to making my best girl happy. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, maybe it makes me a bad person. But that's simply the way it is. I would do anything to put a smile on her face.
So I bought her a ring. I proposed to her with an empty box from the upscale jeweler in my town-- which caught her off-guard, until she read the card that said we had an appointment to pick out a ring the next morning. We went there and spent about three hours looking at rings. Myself, I couldn't have cared less. They all looked the same to me. But she loved it. Just looking was the biggest thrill for her.
When she picked one that she liked, I bought it. Didn't even ask how much it cost. (Of course, I'd gone over all that stuff with the jeweler the previous day, so he knew to only show us stuff that I could afford.)
You know something? I don't care how much it cost. I mean, I care, in the abstract sense. You don't drop five figures on something without noticing it, or at least people in my income bracket don't. But beyond the simple "do I have the money for this?" calculation, I don't care. I gave her something that made her face light up. That smile of hers is beyond price.
It was worth every penny.
I'm not saying that I'm absolutely right about this or that anybody else is absolutely wrong. I'm just saying that, in my case, money is a trivial and fleeting thing compared with my girl's happiness. I guess I just have a different set of priorities than yours.
That's all I have to say.
Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love. (Score:5, Insightful)
You've never had a girlfriend, have you?
Look, women think differently than men on some issues, but you disregard that point of view only at your great peril. So fucking what if sending flowers is stupid? If it makes your girl feel loved, well, mission accomplished.
Don't be a goon.
Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love. (Score:4, Insightful)
Try this: buy some roses for her on any other day of the year. Not only will they be easier and cheaper to get, but I guarantee you she will be ten times happier with a spontaneous sign of affection. All you're really saying on Feb. 14 is "I got you these flowers because my television told me to." Any other day of the year, the message is "I was driving home from work when it hit me how much I love you, so I stopped off at the store and bought you some flowers."
exactly (Score:4, Funny)
So... Ms. casualgeorge... what are you doing this weekend?
alternatives? (Score:3, Insightful)
My gf's brother just got engaged. His fiance announced this to my gf by saying, "here's mine, where's yours?"
Whether or not this is obnoxious is not the point. Her friends are going to do much the same.
Time honored is true, but expected is more the reality.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
I may have plenty of ethical issues against the fine leather used in the new shoes my wife wants for her birthday, but it doesn't mean I'll try buying her a pair of canvas sneakers and hope she doesn't notice.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
So if you want to donate money do DeBeers (hint: they don't need any more) go ahead and surprise your wife with a diamond ring. But if you have a relationship of trust and communication (i.e. you're not already screwed), talk about it with your wife -- she's an adult, and can tell you herself what she wants. And keep in mind that any diamond you're likely to buy had no significant value until 1938, and there's no particular reason to think that they will in 2038, so the only real value is sentimental (which in this case is up to your wife-to-be). So talk it over. If she thinks that a diamond ring is important, then it is, and you should buy her one. But treat her like an intelligent human being, and give her the chance to talk it over.
Personally, we bought a moderately sized diamond (this was before I knew just how artificial a diamond's value actually was), but more importantly, it's set in a custom ring that we designed and bought together. Instead of surprising her with a ring, we flew to Paris, and I proposed under the Arc de Triumph looking at the Eiffel Tower (after hitting the Louvre and eating an insanely fantastic dinner). She was still surprised (and had a goofy grin for weeks), and this all cost far less than the "two months salary" line DeBeers pitches, and was a lot more memorable because it represented real effort to arrange rather than simply writing a check. We designed and bought the ring a month or two later, together.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
As for mine, tiny skulls side-by-side that wraps around my finger molded out of white gold. It was originally based on a cheaply made silver ring I got from OzFest'97. When I first met my wife to be, the ring broke that nite. She offer to repair it and no sooner than after i put it on, it broke. Years later when we decide to marry, she surprised me by recasting the old broken ring into something new and improved. The Jeweler made considerable number of structural improvements and left plenty of room for future customizations (ruby eyes, plenty of surface area to attach additional skulls, etc). Needless to say, I was floored by her surprise.
My point? Why buy stock jewelry at all?? treat it like open source, extend, embrace and wear =)
The uniqueness alone makes it valuable in it's own right, maybe not on the marketplace, or maybe so, but who really cares, it's the sentimental value that matters the most, regardless of cost.
What's that??? some of you are saying i'm blowing shit out my mouth cuz we were able to afford these rings, our tune would probably change if were poorer...HEH...Well remember, her folks gave us the worthless diamond, and all the customizations were under $1000 combined and that's STILL less than 2 months salary, way less,
but worth a million times more than any old piece of junk from a jewelry store.
mindrape
damaged cybernetics
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
JESUS! It never fails to amaze me how little geek guys know about women!
Every single woman I've ever been out with went week at the knees at the sight of me refusing to eat at a restaurant because of poor practice, avoiding a brand for poor ethics, or cycling to work to live 'carbon neutral'.
If you care about this stuff - and your women doesn't I dont care how nice her tits are or how often she gets them out for you - DUMP HER. She'd sure as hell get rid of you if the tables were turned, and theres another one out there with BETTER tits who shares your ethics, and cooks a better omlette - you just have to find her.
If you can shelve your ethics for sex - they weren't your ethics in the first place.
Re:alternatives? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, apparently, they're the materialistic small-minded bitches who would marry someone for the financial security they could provide. OF COURSE they're going to want something ridiculously expensive and p