Week-Long Free-Software Class for Kids? 381
mmol_6453 asks: "I have the opportunity to submit a plan for a week-long class about 'Alternative Operating Systems' to our local community college's Computer Camp. The students will be aged 8-16. We've had classes attended by students who used Linux, but we've never set up a class with alternatives as options. We've found that students in this age range, when interested in the material, can absorb a great deal of information in a short time. This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD, and open-source. We often get extremely bright students here, the kind who are likely to go out and earn $80,000/yr in a post-90s economy. Some of them are even on Slashdot. I want to give the rest a boost in the right direction."
"Considering that the great deal of material to choose from, I need to ask the Slashdot Community its advice:
- Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
- What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
- Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
- Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
- Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
Uh Oh (Score:5, Funny)
Aren't the kids in the first group the dangerous ones?
Re:Uh Oh (Score:5, Funny)
Kind of like the other week, when I was just idly poking around my linux box. I started looking for little tricks with devices, and tried various things like cat
That was the closest thing to terror I have experienced while using a computer. It won't happen again...to me.
Invite a guest speaker. (Score:2, Interesting)
Issues (Score:5, Insightful)
You shouldn't assume that they know how to install operating systems. The main thing is that it takes a long time to install software, let alone an entire operating system.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
The one that they are most familiar with, in terms of GUI.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
As mentioned above, the one with the GUI will produce better results.
Re:Issues (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Issues (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Issues (Score:3, Insightful)
you won't grab their attention if it's not "cute".
Maybe introducing them to something like gnome and
kde and then, afterwards, introducing them to bash
would be a more interesting path for them.
I myself started on a TRS-80, which had no GUI. But the
first few application I typed in there were still the one
doing something "flashy" with some cool beep beep.
Re:Issues (Score:5, Funny)
And yes, I started on the Commodore PET some 22 years ago and fully understand that which you speak of.
Re:Issues (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Issues (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Issues / and misleading lecture title (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are giving a talk on alternative operating systems, I think you'd do well to mention other things than just Unix clones (especially those trying to emulate windows). Try to show more variety - MacOS, RISCOS etc. Remember the gui/WIMP operating system as you know it is not here to stay.
I'm not convinced buy all this WIMP (Desktop) environment stuff. I started using a command line of sorts (BBC model B), before switching to RISCOS which was (debatably still is) a very good alternative operating system - there are many advantages with being stored on a ROM.
RISCOS is also in some ways the purest graphical desktop I've ever used. It is almost entirely mouse driven and is the only OS I've found with true drag'n'drop saving. (you drag what you want to save into the folder you want to put it in and let go instead of typing(messing around) in save dialog menus.)
Nowadays I tend to use X-windows with a completely blank desktop without KDE/Gnome or any of that stuff and just use keyboard shortcuts, and the occasional terminal. I've completely forsaken graphical file managers.
Windows XP initially keeps the screen as uncluttered as possible and tries to obscure the filemanager by hiding the 'mycomputer' icon. So we are already moving away from our mid 90s obsession with graphical file managers. The next version of windows (the evil copy protection infested one) is rumored to be moving further away from a desktop to create a more 'integrated' feel and is said to use some database backend instead of a normal file system.
Anyway my point is, operating systems (or at least their user interfaces) are changing, and in 10 years time, will look nothing like what they currently do. So try to equip these Kids to be flexible, and please try to inspire them to think about what they want operating systems/user interfaces to be like.
We must surely be heading towards computers like Holly from Red Dwarf or the computer on the Heart of Gold. We have the technology we just need the will to develop it so please don't kill anyone's imagination by showing them, 'alternative operating systems' that are merely less flashy immitations of Windows.
Computer operating systems and user-interfaces are in cars, wearable computers, cash points, phones, robots, not just dull PC clones. We are already moving away from being tied to using keyboards and mice the whole time.
Re:Issues (Score:2)
Re:Issues (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Issues (Score:3, Insightful)
assumptions? (Score:5, Informative)
>You shouldn't assume that they know how to install operating systems
No, but I'm willing to bet that given a week, they can learn to install Linux. Especially those with GUI-based installers.
>the one with the GUI will produce better results
They might be more familiar with the GUI, but they can probably learn to use the shell without much difficulty.
Week-Long Free-Software Class for Kids? (Score:5, Funny)
Who takes a whole week to teach kids Gnutella?
Oh...Free OS. Sorry. My bad.
Start 'em off simple (Score:4, Interesting)
Stay with a simple-to-install distribution to start, like Mandrake. Once they're comfy with the KDE screens, you can introduce them to the wonder that is the command line.
Re:Start 'em off simple (Score:2, Insightful)
$80,000? (Score:5, Funny)
Do you take 27 year old students?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Ummm (Score:2, Insightful)
2.Doesnt matter
3.CLI please
4. Definitely ask the rents.
5.Dunno
I would really start with installs...and do it with an easy to customize system..show them you can have a full system running with very little diskspace(floppy, even)...then show them how you can add things, and end up with a full fledged desktop OS. Show them the many faces of Linux(r). And CLI is very important, specially in Linux...you aren't really a power user without it. Just my 2 cents.
installation (Score:5, Insightful)
Which do people learn first: How do drive, or how to rebuild a car's engine?
Show the kids the cool things they can do with the software first, and once they're interested, then they will understand why they need to learn how to install it and do that on their own.
Re:installation (Score:2, Informative)
Re:installation (Score:2)
Replaced a head gasket before I knew how to use a clutch... that explains things a bit...
One word (Score:5, Insightful)
"Knoppix."
Re:installation (Score:3, Insightful)
He just finished building his car, which is a Ford Cobra kit that he bought (well, his father bought it on the assumption that he can sell it for more money after it's built). The 'kit' basically comes with only a welded body, and he had to go through scrapyards to find old mustang parts and refurbish them himself, as well as build many other things from scratch.
So, to answer your question, this kid is a total 'geek', doing things with engines what most people here are to computers. So in his case, he was rebuilding car engines before he even had his driver's license.
Of course he's more the exception than the rule, but his outlook and experience is probably similar to what the students at one of these camps may be like. I know he did go to science camp, where he did typical kid-geek things like model rockets, HAM radio/electronics, dirtbike repair, etc.
In other words, students at a program like this may already be of the advanced type that want to learn all the details. They might care very little about actually playing nethack on a computer, but want to see how one can compile nethack to work on said computer, for example.
Pre-install (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pre-install (Score:2)
Re:Pre-install (Score:2)
Re:Pre-install (Score:2)
teach them from the start (Score:2, Interesting)
I would talk with mom and pop before giving away CDs and adress any questions they have about "free" software and piracy.
Give them Knoppix (Score:5, Informative)
Knoppix is a Debian based LiveCD distribution. It runs directly from the cd. No worries about dads computer getting it's partition table wiped. You could hand these out to the kids day one with no worries.
It contains KDE, OpenOffice, KDevelop, xmms, Mozilla... The list goes on and on. IIRC there is 1.6 gigs on the CD.
zisofs (Score:4, Informative)
Some ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
- Start off by explaining "FREE". Explain both free as in speach and free as in beer... though maybe not in those terms considering the age group.
- I would stay away from an install of Linux, you could be there all week answering questions on it alone (What does this package do?). Also, stick with a distro you know, but point out all the others. Nothing worse than not knowing right away where that config file is.
- Next up, make sure they're familiar with whatever editor you plan to use. Leave it open to use more complicated editors (vi) if they know it, but otherwise stick to simpler ones.
- Give lots of handouts/links to sites with further information
- Pick a few languages that you are very familiar with, be it PERL, PHP, C, etc.
- Get some interesting projects for them to work on, be it a webpage, game, utility, etc
That's about all I could come up with quickly.Re:Some ideas (Score:3, Insightful)
"... Free as in soda", a concept that most kids are familiar with.
Re:Some ideas (Score:2)
Teach them a little bit about hardware, if they are interested.
Definately show them how to dual boot, and fix a broken LILO bootloader.
Re:Some ideas (Score:2)
Alternative Operating Systems? (Score:3, Funny)
Don't compile the kernel until Thursday (Score:5, Informative)
You'll lose the kid's interest unless you're giving them something to do at all points.
Since that's a given, I wouldn't get them to do an install. You might want to walk through a slideshow install or something, but the interminable waiting will get the kids bored and throwing things in a hurry.
Teach them the shell - teach them perl, turn them loose with a bunch of tools at their disposal, and see what they do.
We had one kid test the limits of wordpad, using copy/paste/select-all/repeat. He had a great old time, and actually gathered a crowd, as he was "breaking" things.
Show them how to build a dialectizer in perl - you'll be amazed at the fun they'll have with that.
Keep it fun. End of story.
Re:Don't compile the kernel until Thursday (Score:2, Funny)
Right. So, TuxRacer Mon-Thursday, Friday Esc-X-doctor?
Keep 'em busy, show 'em apps (Score:2, Insightful)
One thing that I've seen be a big "seller" for alternate OSes is the open source apps that one can grab and use. And then customize!
Not all software needs to come in a box.
Re:Don't compile the kernel until Thursday (Score:2)
Which computer camp?
Re:Don't compile the kernel until Thursday (Score:2, Funny)
No, you're wrong. It's just that most people don't respond to trolls and assholes. I'm making an exception in this case.
8-16? (Score:5, Informative)
Focus (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, I think you need to ask yourself exactly what it is you want to teach them. If this is about "alternative operating systems", then are you going to teach them ABOUT operating systems? Most people don't even understand where the application stops and the operating system beings. So is it going to be:
A class on how to use Linux and run various user applications?
A class on setting up and administering various Linux server apps?
A class ABOUT operating systems, how they work, and the differences in technical philosophy among them?
A class about programming?
A class about Unix and its history?
It sounds like you haven't really pinned down what this class is about, other than you want Linux/BSD involved. I think it would serve you well to set back from the details of the course, and ask yourself exactly what concepts you want the kids to walk away with.
That said, given its a computer camp, etc, I would take the opportunity to teach about operating systems and what they do. Don't bother having both Linux and BSD, they are effectively the same thing (Unix). Have a Windows box, a Macintosh and Linux, and talk about the technical philosophies of each. Note that the Macintosh, while technically a Unix, does overlay a lot of technology, which creates a lot of interesting opportunity for discussion about where the operating system stops and the applications begin.
Distros (Score:2, Informative)
Command-line, then GUI, then what Windoze won't do (Score:2)
Re:Command-line, then GUI, then what Windoze won't (Score:3, Insightful)
* How about symlinks? And no, shortcuts don't count (though that's how cygwin fakes it). NT can barely do hard links (you need a third party tool to create them).
* Mounting partitions in any directory (I know win2k can do this, but you still have the c:, d:, etc. drives). And mounting many different filesystems.
*
* cat
* A well set up security model (yes, NT _can_ be set up correctly, but it seems like often the whole drive is wrold writable)
* Easy remote administration (through ssh of course)
* Native X forwarding.
* This client terminal servers [ltsp.org]. And kind of along with that, though different is clustering technology.
* Cron. Though NT kind of has this, it's not as easy to use (and the jobs don't run if you're not logged in!)
* Compiling programs.
* Shell scripts. Hell, having a decent shell. Perl, python, sed, awk, grep, less, and all the other productivity tools Linux users take for granted (sure, you can get them for win32, but most people don't).
* More than one workspace for your GUI. More than one viewport within each workspace.
* Text based logins in case you screw something up and the GUI won't work.
* Almost all the software is written with the user's interests in mind and not some corporation's bottom line (though sometimes those two interests are both accomplished). So you get things like popup blocking, for example.
I could go on and on. Most of the things I mentioned Windows can do, but it's not as polished, or isn't as easy to use. Things like Cygwin do clean up Windows a lot, and are great if you have to use Windows (can gcc cross compile to win32?), but having so many nice things native to the OS makes everything smoother.
Don't get me wrong, there are nice things about windows (the GUI is much snappier than X, even on much slower machines; it's gererally easier to get started on; it's familiar for most people; high end games run on it), but there are lots of deficiencies. And I for one prefer working on Linux/Unix to working on Windows, for a lot of the reasons above.
How about BeOS? (Score:3, Interesting)
The speed of their computer is not too important, Beos runs great on a P200.
There is a pile of software on BeBits (see my present sig), and it is easy to install.
It has a UNIX-esqe command line with many similar commands.
The Personal edition can be installed as a file on Windows and requires just 500 some megs.
Lots of hints and info on the BeOS Tip Server.
The GUI is easy and fast, and there is lots of new driver support.
It will have an OS version rather soon, with options of binary compatabilliy (openBeos) or intergrated with a linux kernal (Blue Eyed OS).
Just some stream of consciousness ideas here.
Whatever you come up with . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
(So I can snarf them!)
-Peter
start with knoppix, perhaps? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, it comes with a mess of good apps to start with (various desktop environments, too), so you can demonstrate a wide range of possible uses.
There are (is at least one, anyhow) similarly bootable BSD system, and that brings me to one more reason to suggest Knoppix here -- you don't have to wipe out any *existing* OS installations to use it.
timothy
Tell it like it is... (Score:2)
Re:Tell it like it is... (Score:2)
That's how it was when I was in elemtary school, except that it was those small Apple's. I still ended up running Linux by Junior High, and then eventually Windows (once Win95 came out).
Prepare a printout (Score:2)
But they are too important to just ignore all together.
Take a cue... (Score:2, Informative)
It was my introduction to Linux, an has served me well ever since as a reference.
First things First. (Score:3, Interesting)
The age group you are speaking of tends to be low on the wisdom scale, so I think that it may be a VERY good idea that you get the parent's permission to give them the CD, or even better, introduce them to Linux via something like Gentoo linux [gentoo.org], where you simply need to boot off the CD and the Hard Drive isn't touched at all.
Using something like Gentoo eliminates the "Do they need to know how to install" question. I would include a few page document of "Linux options" with information on where to get different flavors, as well as cautions and howtos on installing them.
I think that understanding of the GUI would be more valuable initially.
And most importantly, teach them where to find information. Don't just say "do this, then do this". Say something like "There is a HOWTO here, read it and I'll help you if you get stuck".
Teach them what they need to know in order to teach others to be comfortable using(not administering) an alternative OS
Re:First things First. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:First things First. (Score:2)
CLI (Score:4, Interesting)
Viewing the CLI, and computers in general, as an open book with nothing limiting what you can do with them is a key to making people use computers properly.
Re:CLI (Score:2, Funny)
What I learned from starting on a CLI was that if you type everything correctly, nothing happens. You only get feedback if you do something wrong. This was not only excellent preparation for a career in computers but also for dealing with women...
Keep it Simple (as possible) (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't bog yourself down in installation. A coworker took a Linux class where they did nothing but install for the first two days! If at all possible, have the computers pre-installed before day 1. If some of the kids have prior knowledge, they could assist before the week starts.
As far as which features to learn, ask yourself, "what excites me about *nix". Steer the course towards the answer. You will have to start with the basics no matter what. If you tailor the basics toward a goal, particularly one you enjoy, you're much more likely to inspire somebody.
Loads of potential here. (Score:2)
Ok, glad your covering Linux, a couple of standard distributions should do it like redhat (covers RPMs), gentoo (Source, also for the portage system, nice one to draw over to the BSD side), Debian (apt, and a different config layout etc). Next up is your BSDs, id say go mainly for FreeBSD, as this is your all rounder, then OpenBSD to show off the security benifits etc. NetBSD isnt really worth looking at as the other two cover it on x86 hardware. With the BSDs, show off the ports system, stuff like that.
Another thing to do is to show the kids the various editors, stressing that each to their own. I know a lot of people that would have killed to have someone sit by then the first time they used vi or emacs.
Id concentrate mainly on the command line, as anyone, especially kids, can pick up a gui easily, but when things break its the command line you turn too. Alsoo it wqould be a nice point to make out that some distros are more command line driven and some are gui driven, making some better for servers and others for desktops. Show em around a basic system, where the config files are, how the file system works etc.
As for giving away cds, do up a selection. CDs are cheap these days, so spread em around. See if you can get permission off Theo to distribute copied Openbsd cds, as these are copyrighted (as this is educational he may let you, hes nice like that). Hand out a covering letter with each cd pack, which tells the kids to get parents permission before using them etc etc. Also send letters home to the parents detailing that you are giving away free software, that its not pirated or stolen in any way. This will clear up a lot of problems, and also may get the parents interested.
Lastly, video tape a few sessions, put it on line, show other kids
A whole week? (Score:2)
As for giving things free, how about Knoppix? www.knopper.net and find a good mirror. Many LUGs have them mirrored, too.
I'm sure there are lots of hints and tips I could give, but they all seem like common sense. I guess, just don't lose your mind while drafting the plans, and try to keep it interesting while also making them learn something.
Depends on your ambitions, as always (Score:2)
The BSDs are all really wonderful, but in a week you aren't going to be able to teach these kids enough about Unix to keep them from hating it. And since your goal is to bring them out of this with a positive impression toward free software and operating systems...
You shouldn't have to teach them anything significant about the GUI at all, if they've ever used a Windows machine before. Both KDE and GNOME are Windows clones, occasionally with a few extra features thrown in. In fact, if you want to teach them Unix, don't use those desktops at all: install FluxBox or AfterStep or something similar to give them a real taste of what Unix GUIs are like.But the command line should occupy the majority of your time, I think. It's both the most important skill and the most difficult to teach. But you should probably stay away from the more complex tools like sed and awk and keep it to cp/rm/mv/find/xargs and friends. (find/xargs is really illustrative of the powerful things you can do in Unix, and it might inspire them to learn about sed and all the rest on their own.)
Give away the CDs. You're only responsible for the kids while they're in the classroom. If they get home and fsck up dad's computer, that's dad's fault.The primary thing here is that you want to give these kids a push in the right direction. Give them an appreciation for Unix, and the tools to take their appreciation to the next level. If they have Debian CDs and a basic familiarity, maybe they want to install it on their home computers to learn more. That's exactly the sort of response you want, right? And if the kids' parents are smart, they'll encourage this sort of learning-on-your-own too. I know my parents did, even though it meant my mother went two weeks where she couldn't use her computer because I'd put Solaris on it.
Suggestions (Score:4, Informative)
Ask one question. (Score:3)
I think if you can answer that one question, you'll know whether or not you need to turn these kids in to "power users" that are CLI wizards or just introduce them to KDE.
I don't want to sound cynical, but it seems to me that most kids would mostly be concerned about the quality of their gaming experience more than uptime and intellectual property discussions, and in this case, Linux and *BSD may not provide a satisfactory experience. I want to be wrong about this, so feel free to correct my possible misconceptions.
What do kids value in an OS? Cynics want to know.
Haha. (Score:5, Informative)
1. Personally, I already had a great interest in computers. Granted, if the kids are going to a computer camp, they already will, but I was *really* interested. I skipped BASIC and went to C++. (Mind you, this was when I was 10.) See topic 4.
2. The teachers love what they are teaching. If you tell a Microsoft cert to teach about Linux, nothing will happen. Get some hardcore Linux gurus who love kids (hah), and stuff will truly happen.
3. Give them as much as they want, and what they want.
4. This kinda coinsides with 3, but... If they want to go ahead and be very advanced, let them. If you are covering ``ls'' and they want to learn sed/awk, teach them that and let them learn. Again, they'll learn much quicker.
Well, a lot of what I said has to do with teaching in general. But still, being a good teacher is key.
To answer some of your questions, hand out CDs to the parents, so they know what will go on. Bootable CDs (like DemoLinux) preferibly. Don't teach them how to install until they love the OS. And teach them the command line or Gnome, which ever one they want. Teach them an easy Linux, like Mandrake or Redhat (not Debian, even though it's my distro of choice), although mention *BSD and pros and cons.
Hope this helps!
Orange
Re:Haha. (Score:2)
That shouldn't be a problem...
[cue "Linux users are chlid molesters" joke here]
8-16? (Score:4, Insightful)
And as far as the one who are on slashdot, the best directions you could give them is "Quit trolling"
Start them off simple, but not slow. (Score:2, Insightful)
There's a plethora of 'cheat sheets' that have all the common shell commands in them, so it would probably be a good thing to hand out photocopies of those while they're fiddling around, just make sure you let them know the devastating power of -R.
Debian would probably just as good a starting distro as anything else, but let's not start that war here. Make sure if you give those CD's out to put a nice big disclaimer on the label or case warning them not to wipe out Mom and Dad's taxes. Then again there's whatever distribution it is that installs on a windows partition, less of a chance of destroying the home PC.
Of course make sure they get a good dose of how to do everything they already do with a *NIX box. Make sure you have OpenOffice or StarOffice on there, and whatever other browser on there, if you're really brave, put your favorite IM clone on there, but don't expect them to pay any attention to you afterwards.
Remember to keep it interesting for them, show them where the games are if need be, after all when we were their age, who didn't check to make sure Xbill functioned properly after a new install? Speaking of installs, I'm sure plenty of these youngsters have already nuked the family computer at least once, and Linux installs have come a long long way in the past few years, they'll figure it out.
A few ideas... (Score:2, Interesting)
- Don't politicize your teaching. The last thing the world needs are more brain-blocked hysterical zealots.
- Teach them what is good and what is bad about both sides of the fence (Linux/Microsoft/Everyone Else). Don't polarize things and say "MyOS is better than YourOS... because"
- Don't give them crutches but don't overwhelm them. Show them how to work the damn thing off of a blinking cursor. If you don't have time to go into X and GUI stuff in general, don't worry. If everyone started with a command line the world would be a better place (and support reps would have more hair). At the same time, don't try to go into how bootstrapping works - just stimulate their appetite. If they're good for it, they'll take the next step by themselves.
- Teach them what is good about open source and why it exists and what it's all about. Don't let them grow up to be confused thinking that "free" means "I should get everything for free" instead of "freedom"
- Don't mention RMS.
- ???
- Profit!!!
(ok, the last two were a joke. Just the last two)Day one or two: Shells (Score:2)
- Don't have to navigate through hundreds of menu's.
- Can pipe simple commands together and get something powerful.
- Very low bandwidth.
That's just a few. And throw in the 'find' command if you need to both impress and confuse themAnswers to the questions (Score:2)
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
I would think they should already know how to install the OS. I think an intro to linux class and a power user class would have to be two separate things.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I think you answered your own question there. If you only are familiar with Debian, and you are teaching the class, you'd better stick with Debian.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
SHELL!!!
Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Hopefully, after your first class they will know not to do that. Hand out the disks would be my vote.
Just "Free" Systems? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not suggesting you ignore Free Software at all, but give a little time at least to the non-free alternatives. OS/2, or whatever it's called now, would be a good example of something technically well-designed, but which failed in the marketpalce. Pre-OS X MacOS has a very long and interesting history. There are buckets of sites out there that'll give you enough material for a few hours on each one.
It might also be worth spending a little time on the differences between the various Windows incarnations, at least from 3.1 to 95 to NT.
You've got a great concept here - don't go turning it into a sermon. The merits of the Free stuff will be obvious, so there's no need to avoid mentioning the competition.
Hands on (Score:3, Informative)
It can be tough, though, as some will bring computers that they can't touch. When I went to computer camp, there were a bunch of rental machines. Had they decided to teach us to install Linux (They didnt, I was the only Linux user... It was extrememly amusing to watch the VB trojans created by our loving counselers fail completely on my box, however... ), I think it would have been smart to image a rental box, store the image someplace, and let the campers go hog wild installing *ix.
You can study, and you can watch someone do it on thier screen, but its nothing like doing it yourself.
When I first started with Linux, I had by cobbled together box that I built for $40, which included 3 hard drives and an S3 Vision864 graphics card. Because I had a free CD of Turbolinux that I got when installing a router at my church, I installed Turbolinux 6.0. XFree86 3.3.6, kernel 2.2.14, all kinds of fun stuff. I tried to *resize* my Windows partition, which produced negative consequences for about 30 mp3s, otherwise failing to have any effect. And that graphics card. If you though S3 cards were bad in windows, you should try to get one working in XFree3.3.6. It took me hours of xf86config tweaking before I had two readable resolutions: 640x480 and 1024x768. Didn't touch XF86Config ever again.
All of that to say, it was a major pain in the butt. No kudzu holding my hand, I had to learn everything from scratch. It was a big deal, but now I configure XFree86 with ease, and can partition a harddrive with the best of them (well, for what its worth. It's not really all that hard
With Linux, its a learn by doing proposition. I urge you to offer your students this opportunity.
-geogeek
~Geogeek now runs an Athlon 1.4GHz box with a nice, big, 80GB hard drive, and a Radeon 8500. Funded in part by Linux skills~
Modern distributions: Make a good first impression (Score:3, Insightful)
GCC 3.2 offers a huge speed increase for C++ code. KDE, built entirely in C++, suffers from GCC 2.x's late symbol resolution slowness. To impress the power of Free software on the kids, make sure you use a distribution that has compiled KDE with a modern compiler. You want to make a good first impression, and that means killer speed and killer looks. For the same reasons, if you're going to be doing anything multimedia (even just playing music from XMMS), use recent ALSA drivers that support multiplexing (i.e., SB Live!), and be sure to patch the kernel with one of the real-time scheduling patches. Again, skipping music is not a turn-on.
From there on out, teach them the power of multi-desktops, keyboard shortcuts, and shell scripting. Start them on the platform with a positive view.
Give a KNOPPIX CD to every student (Score:2, Insightful)
Where to begin (Score:2)
I learned how to use Linux on a coworker's computer at an internship I had. I didn't learn how to install Linux until I was comfortable using it at work, and I found the installation to be pretty simple.
You'll run into a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem here if you think about it too hard. In order to learn how to install the OS they will have to deal with a bunch of things all at once: partitioning, filesystems, mountpoints, and thousands of names of programs that sound cool. Installation is pretty easy if you have a handle on these concepts, but if you don't you'll find it very exasperating--little documentation and a lot at stake. But if you make then a power user first, then they get hands-on experience with the OS, they have a reason to want to install it, and they'll be more capable at installing the OS itself on their own when it comes time to do that.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
If you focus on Unix, and what the Unix philosophy is, then it won't matter much. Being able to cast around sed & awk, make command lines with for loops, and configure networking manually is a lot better than knowing how to use a graphical system configuration/installation utility like linuxconf or dselect. Plus, focusing on the tools is more likely to carry over to other operating systems. Teach them regular expressions. Teach them loops and conditionals. Don't teach them how to run RPM just because they might have to someday; it's rote, they won't remember it when they have to use it, and they'll be falling asleep as you explain it.
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
No question: the shell. Even if you use the GUI all day (I run KDE!), lots of low-level things are written in bash/ksh/csh. If you're going to be able to sit down at any Unix computer and use it, you're going to have to be competant with at least sh/bash. The first thing I do when I sit down is fire up a console. They should be doing that automatically by the end of your class: the console is where the work is done.
There's a lot of variety with GUIs, and it can be great fun to mess around with window managers and so forth. Give them the ability to change these things (teach them how to edit their
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.
Make the CDs available, but do talk to the parents. Make sure the parents realize that if the kid is going to do anything with "partitioning" they should go out and buy a copy of Partition Magic so they don't permanently screw everything up. That software was the best $50 I spent in high school, when I was a big OS installing weirdo. My parents never lost any data.
Clearly, some of the kids are going to want to install it at home, and it's not necessary that their parents understand the whole idea behind partitioning (though it would be nice). It's also not necessary to scare the parents into preventing the kid from doing what they want to do out of fear. I geniunely believe PM is the right answer to this problem: it's got undo until the last possible moment, and it's very user-friendly, which helps a lot when you're just getting started. Once that's taken care of there is very little that can be screwed up (most installers either ignore other drives or assume that if it's type "vfat" it shouldn't be formatted).
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Yes, definitely try and think of a curriculum. Kids who are interested can absorb tons of material, but you've got to keep it interesting. The best way to do that is to not focus on the rote doing of things, but to talk about the possibilities of things. Don't just say, here's regular expressions, instead say with regular expressions you can strip out everything in a file you don't want, get a list of all the email addresses on this webpage, etc. Keep them interested in the possibilities that you're opening up for them by teaching them the software.
Be aware of your philosophy and how it affects your decisions. If you believe in focus-follows-mouse, set up all the machines that way. Let them change it but make them try it out first: expose them to as many possibilities as possible. Have vi and emacs on the machines, and let them pick. You've probably got a whole set of quasi-religious beliefs about Linux. This is your chance to instill those beliefs in other people, but make sure that you point out your biases. Most of the kids who take your class are going to take Debian home to install, which is fine as long as you don't focus on the "Debianness of it all."
Show them the Linux that newbies don't usually get to see, because of the religious wars that go on. Regular expressions are another great example, because vi and emacs both support them. You may not be able to extend vi in lisp (and you might with vim), so don't focus on that. Keep it open.
Here's my advice on the actual software to talk about:
I suggest bash because of it's ubiquity. Everybody uses it and knows it, and it's very expressive in its weird little way. Debian or Redhat because they are also everywhere, but don't focus on rpm or apt. I suggest Blackbox or WindowMaker because they don't have a bazillion settings that you can spend all day on. If they fire up GNOME or KDE they'll be so absorbed in the coolness of it all that they'll spend the whole day configuring it and not listening to you. Galeon is simpler than Mozilla but uses the same rendering engine, and makes webpages look pretty decent. If you have them firing up Netscape 4.7 or Mozilla, they'll either be disappointed or distracted (my guess). Past these options I don't think the software matters much if they have choice.
Good luck with your project! It sounds like a step in the right direction to me.
--
Daniel
Er? (Score:2)
Suggestions from a teenage Linux newbie. (Score:3, Insightful)
Explain what the installation will do, step by step (disk partitioning and the like). I'd recommend showing them around the installation process, but coming up with something for them to do for the 10/20/30 minutes it takes to install.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I know next to nothing about *BSD as well, but I'd recommend showing them at least two different Linux distros (RH and SuSE, perhaps?).
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I know a lot of people will disagree here, but I would actually show them the shell first. Bash can do a lot of things here, and show them how to use the basic commands (rm, cd, cat, ls, w, id, top, grep, etc.) and then show them some of the cool stuff like Perl, tr, and awk. Then tell them a bit about X and desktop environments; then let them play with the pretty widgets like xmms.
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Knoppix. And talk to the parents as well, yeah.
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Tell them what not to do, and (most importantly) say WHY not to do it. If you just say "never never do 'rm -rf /'" then you can probably guess what's going to happen. On the other hand, if you say "if you do 'rm -rf /', you'll delete all of your important files (if not the entire thing) and then you'll be up the creek." Though they should be able to figure this out by themselves once you tell them about how the filesystem works and rm's different command flags.
Is it a technical or a political education? (Score:3, Interesting)
I read this statement and saw a similar version right next to it: "There's a lot of potential to teach them about economics, history and socialism."
Two of those things are disciplines, one's a specific political theory. Two of your topics are operating systems, one's an often controversial intellectual property concept. What are you trying to teach them -- about Linux or a BSD, or to proselytize about Open Source?
Sure, how Linux or BSDs are developed ("Who makes Linux Mr. Smith?") is likely to be addressed, but a simple explanation that it has many developers collaborating and is distributed freely would be an adequate explanation. Especially considering you're dealing with kids -- even adults with a good grasp of what intellectual property is don't always grasp the concept of open source well.
I wish you well, but don't lose focus as to what you're doing. If you want to preach open source, fine, but don't call it an operating system class, call it an appeal for open source.
yeah, bad idea (Score:2)
Alternative Operating Systems? (Score:2)
Recomendation (Score:2, Insightful)
>1. Do they need to know how to install the OS >first, or should I let them look that up on >their own while I make them power-users?
Teach them how to install the OS. That was what I had problems with learning Linux, though distros have gotten a little easier to install since then.
>2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should >they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar >with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I would say Red Hat and FreeBSD, and possibly Darwin if they use a Mac. Red Hat is easiest to get used to from Windows (especially v.8). I use the version of Red Hat for PPC, Yellow Dog Linux. FreeBSD is supposed to be easiest to use of the BSDs, though the only BSD I've used is Darwin in OS X.
>3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at >the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use >the shell?
Teach them the basics of the GUI and major apps (eg. OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution) the first two days, then mainly concentrate on command line.
>4. Should I give away Debian CDs >no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the >almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install >Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
I think there may be a distro of Linux that runs in Windows off a disc image, though I do not remember the name... If it works well enough give them a CD of it.
>5. Are there any other key issue I need to think >about?"
Show them gaim or another AIM client, and mention that they should switch from AOL. Almost every one at school I know uses AOL, except for a few people that have broadband
Cmdline vs GUI (Score:2)
I would think that at that age (and any age) you might get faster results by teaching them GUI. Since you have the opportunity to shape their usage, please!! make sure they know the power of the command line and its advantages over GUI.
Maybe show them some scripts and how powerful they can be over the pretty GUI. Even if they start using the GUI, as long as they know the command line is there and it's extremely productive, I think their curiousity will take over and accept cmdline sooner or later.
Re:Cmdline vs GUI (Score:2)
In a programming language, keyboarding skills as far as spelling and punctuation are critical.
I stressed accuracy over speed, and the kids got the point right away.
My point?
You'd be surprised how well kids would take to a CLI.
They get gooey enough at home with Window$...
t_t_b
what i would want to see (Score:3, Interesting)
then i would want to see a "free" box next to it doing all of the same things. xmms, openoffice, mozilla, gimp, evolution.
then go on to show them how it is different thatn windows in terms of cost, freedom, opensource, configurability. then show them all of teh aditional software. show tehm sourceforge and fresh meat.
the command line is scary for non-geeks, i bet very few OSX users even know they have it, let alone use it, (and im not refering to the /. crowd OSX users) show them it only to enhance, not confuse, their experience.
in short, show them linux as an alternative, and how it can seamlessly replace their current tools, and extend their computiong functionality.
8 - 16 year olds (Score:4, Insightful)
That should get their attention.
Here's one recipe you can try... (Score:3, Informative)
A suggestion from a teenager (Score:4, Informative)
Speaking from experience, it is extremely difficult, time-consuming, and frustrating to learn about *nix alone, and a mentor-like system would help kids greatly.
Here are some of the things I wished I knew before I bought books at Barnes and Noble:
What technologies Unix has, what they do, what they are used for, and why they should be used. Talk about languages like Perl, PHP, and whatever else to give the kids a roadmap. I had no roadmap, and I ended up buying an ASP book because I wanted to learn web programming. -_- I was young, naive, and unable to return the book in time to get a refund. It did burn brightly, though.
Go through the compile process and explain dependencies and things like that. Before I got my first Unix machine, I had used classic mac os and I knew nothing of the 10000000000000000 extra libraries and such I had to install to get the gimp working. On that thought, talk about package managment systems- the where, why, and how.
Talk about geek culture. Where did open source start? Larry Wall's Camel Book has a rather good chapter about perl culture, and much of it can be applied to more than one place. Mention slashdot, and tell them to read often
Talk terminals. Please! Get students familiar with the command line, insert a few *modifications* into a configure script to aquaint people with the compiler, linker *gasp*, and the shell environments. Teach kids what LDFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, etc. they can tweak to get code running on their machine. Also, cvs is really useful, so please teach kids how to use and navigate that! The first initial hump in cvs learning can be hard to get over, and I would definately have liked it if I could have had some direction.
Literature. Teach kids how to buy computer books, how to read computer books, and how to amass a library of computer books. Personally, I cannot stand reading text from a computer screen as it hurts my eyes, so don't limit offerings to online documentation.
After all this fundimental knowledge is gained, talk about how to compile a linux (or other) kernel, installing an operating system (i.e. not redhat; installations that use a simple text-based interface, as if some geek threw a linux distro together together that afternoon
I attended java programming classes at my local community college, which were a big waste of time. The lesson is to teach kids how to have some self-direction, so that when they grow up they can be autonomous learners. I had to learn my lessons the hard ways, so I'm glad someone is making an effort to reach out and help students.
Intro. to GIMP (Score:3, Informative)
C tutorial (Score:3, Informative)
Other points:-
OSS Camp (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Operating systems. Spend the first day letting them boot and play with linux. As others have suggested, use a CD-based distro like Knoppix or Gentoo. Show them the GUI AND the shell. Don't worry about shell programming; just go over the basic commands like ls, cat, grep, etc. Nothing too fancy. You've only got a week, so don't swamp them. If they've got the mind for it, all you'll have to do is provide the introduction at this point. Don't forget to provide a nice handout for the various commands. Include pipes and redirection.
2) Go over using an editor. For god's sake, don't start the poor kids on vi. You want them to get something useful done, not spend all day trying to figure out why they can't exit.
3) Explain the various categories of software like web servers, databases, programming languages, etc., and let them know there are completely free versions out there that are just as useful as versions for which people pay hundreds of thousands (sometimes millions!) of dollars.
4) Let them tinker with making their own website. If you gather a large collection of free images and backgrounds (and GIMP so they can make their own), then give them a handout on basic HTML, they should pick it up pretty quickly. Kids who finish earlier can take a handout on PHP and learn to make pages dynamic w/ database access. This will allow them to see several different functional areas (the OS, programming, web server, database, and browser) all come together in a cohesive way.
5) Possibly cover some basic programming. Perl or ruby would be a good start. Maybe Python, but I'm not a big fan of its forced indentation. I think it might be ok to talk about the difference between interpreted languages and compiled languages, but teaching C or C++ is probably a little much.
You could probably spend a week on that stuff and instill in them an idea of the types of open source software available, how open source benefits people (especially point out that the class they are in wouldn't be possible without open source because of the cost!), and how they can use open source themselves at home. With any luck, you can start another generation of computer-philes who will understand why the Copyleft is a good thing, not a virus.
Stick to the concepts (Score:3, Informative)
Teach the concepts instead. For example, teach them about harddrive partitions, and not about a specific partitioning program. I don't care how much you know the Mandrake or Redhat partitioning GUIs in the installer, it won't do you any good when you're faced with fdisk. But if you know the concepts, you at least know the shape and pattern of what you need to do.
And teach them how to use the available documentation. Man pages. Info pages. How to use lynx or another textmode browser for html files. They will never know everything there is no know about UNIX, but they *can* know how to find out anything they might not know.
Finally, give each one in the class a different system. Use as many as you can scrounge up. FreeBSD, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware, OpenBSD, etc. Then when you teach about partitioning the harddrive (for example), they'll realize that there are a dozen different right ways to do it.
As the old saw says, "If you learn Redhat you learn Redhat. If you learn Slackware you learn Linux." There is a kernel of truth in there. Someone who is exposed to just Redhat Linux isn't going to transition to a job working with Solaris as easily as someone who's been exposed to a couple of different distributions plus a BSD. You do NOT know what the tech world is going to be like in ten years, so don't make your students live in the past when they get there.
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
Re:You're kidding right? (Score:3, Insightful)
better off without them.
Re:+5, Informative (Score:5, Insightful)
That's where I wish I'd started.
Re:+5, Informative (Score:2)
Re:words from a 13 yr old (Score:2)
This sounds suspiciously to me... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or is it just indoctrination that goes against our particular POVs??