Changing Jobs for Job Satisfaction?

I-love-my-work, who is considering rejoining the IT world after a stint in business, asks: "A molecular biologist with a PhD at University of Birmingham, in the UK, quits his lab position to become a plumber, since a plumber apparently earns twice what he currently makes (~US$42K). How many of you would change careers if given a chance? What factors would influence the decision (money, hours, upper management, a chance to enjoy more of your life)?" What factors would make you seriously consider leaving your current career for another?

Paid?

Paid? I'm supposed to get Paid?!

Duuuude....

Yes.

Sorry. As much as I like science, I like having all bills paid even more.

Getting paid 1/4 for job satisfaction? Nah..

What bills are necessary?

I realized a few years ago that I like having all bills paid too, but that I care a lot more about travelling to new and beautiful places during the summer than I do about having cable TV during the winter. You choose your luxuries in life. My luxuries are less material and more quality-of-life things. I can pay off all my bills even living under the poverty line, and I'm much happier now than I was when I had more bills-- and a LOT more money.

I was a programmer for a while, most notably during the bubble. I was paid really well, enjoyed the work itself most of the time, and got great perks. I also worked in an office with no windows 40 to 50 hours a week, and it could be pretty frustrating at times (in a damn, this idiot will NEVER understand the point I'm trying to make! kind of way) So I decided to go back to school.

I'm working on a PhD in archaeology. The stipend I'm living off of is a quarter of what I was making at my old job (not considering things like inflation and the raises I would've gotten between then and now.) I can't afford cable or to go out for dinner all that much; I'm living below the poverty line. But I love my life! I travel every summer to exotic places, I love what I spend my time doing, I am intellectually challenged every minute of the day, set my own schedule again, and am excited about the fact that I have so much freedom to determine where I will be in the future. Which university or universties I'll end up teaching at, where I'll do my research, all of the places I'll be able to visit. All of the reading I'll do and all of the time I'll spend outdoors instead of in an office with no windows. It'd be great if at some point I make a lot of money again, and I'm sure I'll manage to do just fine (under the poverty line is for grad students; I don't plan to stay here forever.) But for me, it was no choice: job and LIFE satisfaction over any amount of money, any day.

Re:What bills are necessary?

Isn't a "professional student" what the best teachers are? People who dedicate their lives to learning and to passing on their knowledge. I love teaching, I love the flexibility of an academic environment, I love learning, and I'm not looking back towards CorporateLand or Government-Style BureaucraticSinkhole ever again. :)

Re:What bills are necessary?

Err...I'd rather date a student that's happy than a professional pulling down a half-million that isn't...

And I bet many guys would agree. (Okay, the half-million might be a stretch.)

--RJ

Re:What bills are necessary?

Err...I'd rather date a student that's happy than a professional pulling down a half-million that isn't...

Why not have it both ways? The profesional pulling down half a million will be far too busy to notice the student on the side. :)

Dead money

Ah, the famous 'dead money argument'

Can you explain why paying a landlord for the use of his asset (a house) is evil and stupid, whereas paying a bank for the use of their asset (a lump of capital) is clever and mature?

It /ALL/ depends on circumstances. I know some very succesful people who are serious sharemarket investors and many of them rent, on the basis that they don't understand the housing market, so why risk their capital there?

Re:What bills are necessary?

This is rather unrealistic. In most urban areas, the cost of housing goes UP near the University, way up. Since most students are getting large student loans and/or parent funding, and many times working as well (even McDonald's full-time will beat the 13k poverty line), they don't have that much trouble affording their apartments. The real poor people live in slums, which are not usually near universities, and are seriously dangerous places to be.

Having a car of any kind is generally expensive; the problem isn't just the price of the car, but insurance, registration/taxes, and repairs. If you buy some crappy used car, thinking you're going to save money, you'll more than make up for it in regular repairs (depends on the car of course). And even if you never have problems, if you're under 25 the insurance is ridiculous. It's better over 25, but still a significant cost. Of course, if your alternative is the bus, you better live fairly close to everyplace you need to go because they're so slow.

Where this whole "living cheap" thing totally falls flat on its face is when you get into marriage and kids, something, statistically, most adults do at some point in their lives. Yeah, I know this is Slashdot, but I think even most people here will experience one or both of these eventually; I really doubted it too when I was in college but now that I'm pushing 30, things have changed a lot. There is simply no way you can raise kids properly on a poverty-line income. Sure, lots of people have kids and are dirt poor, but their kids are sick, in jail, etc. I've never heard anything good about raising kids while living in the ghetto.

This has nothing to do with an "ostentatious" lifestyle; families making $40k have a hard time making ends meet in this country when they have 2-3 kids ($80k in california), and the reason is the high cost of living, caused by many, many factors which could fuel several articles here.

Of course, armchair idealists will say "it's all about choices you make", but here in the real world, people are limited by the society they live in and the costs it imposes on them (you know how much it costs to visit the doctor when you don't have health insurance?).

Re:What bills are necessary?

You're not very creative are you?

- Get a roommate
- Live in a co-op
- Work for the apartment complex in exchange for free/discounted lodging
- Acquire skills so that you can make more money
- Don't have kids until you can afford them
- Work in a place that provides lodging and food, like in the hospitality industry
- Work out payment plans with doctors
- Carpool
- Don't eat out
- Grow your veggies in a garden. If you're in an apartment, join a community garden
- Barter
- Shop at Goodwill.
- Work two jobs, or, when finished with one job, take continuing education courses
- Take advantage of church/community/family/industry networks and programs.
- Buy in bulk with others in your community to share in savings.
- Learn how to budget: read books, go to workshops, listen to radio shows like Clark Howard
- Sell your television.
- Save for emergencies.
- Don't use credit cards.
- take advantage of overdraft protection, either with a line of credit or with a secured amount outside of your checking account.
- Research before making large purchases.


Basically, it breaks down to this: Work. Save. Learn. Plan. Pool.
If you do these things, you can live on an extremely small amount of day-to-day income. The people who are harping on about the Living Wage BS are whiners. They wouldn't have to worry about it if they simply worked, saved, learned, planned and pooled.

I make about $30-$35K. I invest 25% of this. Between the amount invested and the amount taken from me in taxes, I make about $12-$15K. I live off of this just fine. Certainly, It's not a luxurious life, but I'm fortunate to be able to invest for a comfortable life later on. The limited take-home income I use now is worth it for me. For others with pre-investment salaries of about $12-$15K, they can invest in their future through acquiring new skills so that eventually they will be able to bring greater value to their employer. Then they will be able to invest in their future monetarily as I am able to do. It may not be as glamorous as being an archaeology grad student digging up bones all over the world, but one can be proud in living independently and in investing in a better future, through watever methods they are able to employ.

Let's quit with the class envy and beat-down attitude and look at how to make it happen. As soon as you do, you'll find a wealth of options and opportunities. Some of the most successful people come from meager beginnings. I'm sure none of them allowed for any time wimpering about how they didn't win life's lottery or demanding a "living wage."

Re:What bills are necessary?

I am a graduate student; my student funding covers tuition and provides a stipend, and I can buy into the university health care. My stipend, from which health care fees are deducted. I live in Pittsburgh, which is a very affordable city, and I pay $400 a month for my apartment-- about half of my take-home, monthly. But in Pittsburgh, this affords me the top floor and finished attic of a house; I live alone, and it's a very spacious, with big rooms, lots of windows, a balcony, and I use the attic as an office instead of the second bedroom it was marketed as. Of course, I spent a couple of months looking for a deal-- not all apartments are so nice for the price, but I did find one. I have my car that I bought and paid off before I quit the cushy job. I don't buy new clothes often, and I can use busses free with my student ID. I love to cook so don't eat out much. I am lucky, but the luck partly is of my making-- I spent a long time researching my options before quitting my job, and spent a lot of time making sure I had an apartment that I could afford and would like to stay in; I can't afford to move right now, or in the near future, without a team of friends with trucks and some scrimping to deal with overlapping security deposits. I don't have cable, but I have a cell phone I use carefully to conserve daytime minutes, and have people over to my house instead of going out all the time. I can afford wine and cheese, roadtrips and concerts, and that amazing dress I saw in the window at Express, but I can't afford to do them every week. That's fine with me. I spend four months a year on beaches and in the jungle, and I'm happy with my 15 year old television and no landline. I have scraped together savings in case of things like car trouble, family emergencies, and those "necessary" spur-of-the-moment trips I take when I see that there's an airline having a sale with round-trip tickets for $75 to San Diego. I have some money in long-term savings that I add to slowly, and as I said, I don't plan to be living below the poverty line forever. I have no problem working "odd" teaching jobs and programming or analyzing data for extra money, I just don't like having a boss giving me deadlines to do them on a weekly basis. Many of my neighbors are also living on what I make, and while they aren't students and so don't have the university health care, they do have government health care to help them out; most of them, however, have things like cable and take fewer trips. It's all about the choices you make; it costs very little to live from day to day in most of the U.S.; the things that cost more are the luxuries-- living in big cities, amenities, the different shoes that match every outfit you own, detailing your car, getting the newest graphics card. (My vaio laptop, that I'm using with Pittsburgh's fantastic free wireless access [telerama.com] is six years old. My desktop is built from used parts.) Yeah, it takes more work. It takes better planning. But I'm loving it.

What I don't get is...

Why anyone would want to be a Microbiologist?? I mean I have desire to be a plummer personally, but at least I would get tons of meaningless casual sex... That is unless porn has lied to me... :)

Re:I would change if I got paid the same

I have considered this time and time again but the only thing keeping me from changing out of IT to something more gratifying is money.

Are you perchance posting this from India? 'cuz I'm having trouble making sense of this if you're American ...

Re:I would change if I got paid the same

I have a hard time making sense of all the complaints about pay. Back in 1992 I was making about $42k/year as a run of the mill programmer for a company. I became a contractor and immediately started making $45/hour. Six months later my original company hired me back as an independent consultant at $50/hr to do the same job as before, sitting at the exact same desk. Unfortunately all the reasons I had left the job were still there, so after 6 months I left for other contracts. I have never made less than $40/hr since. Based on the many other programmers I've talked to, $40/hr or better seems pretty normal.

But you don't get any benefits! The value of a health plan, paid time off and other benefits (for me at least) works out to about $16k/year, or $8/hour. When you're self employed, half the cost of your health insurance is deductible.

But you pay higher taxes. Yeah, when you make more money you pay more tax, but you still have more money.

But you don't have job security. And I did before? Hah!

I know not every contractor's experience is the same as mine, but the point is, if you're stuck working for a company at a dead-end job, there's at least one major avenue you should explore before feeling hopeless.

Health, time, family.... and then money.

I had a job as senior project manager, my skills "helped" me to get into the business area as well as the technical, so at the end of the day I was doing the jobs of a sales engineer, manager of the IT crew and project manager. That was ok until my boss started to push to improve my sales!!!! c'mon...

Anyway... he went to southamerica to close a few deals and I was running the business here. We were about 10 people. The problem was when he starting to call the customers to force payments (they were late) and ruined all the negotiations I did. Projects started to collapse and 3 of the best employees left. I tried to, but my hands were tied with the responsibiliti. Finally the stress led me to the hospital and when the company refused to pay the bill and the extra expenses I decided to quit. Money was good, but considering the chores I was doing, I deserved the money of 3 or 4 management positions.

You and your health is the most important, also take time to live your life, don't live for work. Become necessary to your company, but don't solve others work. If you feel abused, talk, if nobody listens, then it's time to give the fsk salutation to your boss. Chances are they won't support you in easy times, lesser are while you're in troubles.

My 2cents.

Find a job you love....

....and you'll never have to work a day in your life :-)

Re:Find a job you love....

Or perhaps one could find a job that does not require work, and therefore come to love it ;-)

Re:Find a job you love....

How about a job that lets you spend 90% of your time reloading slashdot? (like mine :)

Re:Find a job you love....

Come on Taco, we know it's you, no need to post as AC ...

Re:Find a job you love....

Cmdr Taco reads Slashdot?

Re:Find a job you love....

Not always true, unfortunately. All too often the 'job' part ruins the 'fun' part.

For example, I used to love programming. Then I got a job doing it for a living ... and I no longer can easily start working on programming related things once I get home from work. After 5+ years of doing it as a job now, it's very difficult for me to spend time writing code at home now ... it just feels too much like work. =(

Re:Find a job you love....

which means you enjoyed it without the deadlines, forced work, etc.

basically you liked it as a hobby, not as a job.

a good thing to keep in mind.

Re:Find a job you love....

Does anybody do plumbing as a hobby?
I can hear it now: "I used to like installing PVC drainage pipes but now, well when I get home and find a leak under the sink it's just too much like work to get under there and fix it."

Frist rule of plumbing: shit don't run up hill.

Re:Find a job you love....

"All too often the 'job' part ruins the 'fun' part."

So you're telling me that Ron Jeremy responds to a woman coming onto him with, "Naa, you look pretty hot an' all, but it'd feel too much like work..."?

Re:Find a job you love....

What blows me away is that any woman would "come on" to Ron Jeremy at all!

Re:Find a job you love....

which is why i NEVER want to be a gynecologist :)

Re:Find a job you love....

I spent a few years in college working for a television station, most of my job boiled down to watching our station on 5 different monitors as a quality control (high-def, black and white, regular color, a radial spectrograph, and a high-def black and white) - but after you trained yourself what to look for it bwas basically watching TV 8 hours a day in an otherwise featureless room with nobody else there, no outside stimuli. For two years, getting paid for it.

I still don't watch regular television anymore - can't bear to watch what amounts to crap for free. I do watch some Discovery Channel and the History Channel, that's time well spent - but regular TV ... ouch.

Re:Find a job you love....

Programming's a skill, not unlike speaking or writing. While you're new enough to it, there's enjoyment in the mere exercise of your mastery. But that wears out, out course, and does so even faster if you're doing it eight hours a day.

But when programming (or speaking or writing) matures into becoming a tool, its spectrum of possibilities for rewarding engagement widens dramatically.

Choose your next job by its projects. (And soon.)

Re:Find a job you love....

I was in very much the same boat as you in my first job. Four pretty miserable years working on financial software at a nasty company. I was bored, drained of energy, frustrated, and I had completely lost all love of programming. I actually dreaded coding-when I did get a chance to code, instead of dealing with all kinds of political crap. I changed jobs a short while ago, and its made a world of difference. Here I'm working almost 100% of my time on code, the work is challenging as hell, the coworkers are sharp, and I don't have to deal with all kinds of political crap. On top of that, I'm actually coding in my spare time again-something I stopped doing over two years ago.

What I'm saying is, there are jobs out there which are much better in this industry. Some suck, some are much better. The good jobs are always rare, in any industry, but they *are* out there. Don't lose hope.

Re:Find a job you love....

I've always preferred:

find a job you like enough to do for the rest of your life, that pays well and doesn't have too long hours. Then do the stuff you love with your money and free time.

Because let's face it, there's way more stuff that's fun to do in your free time than as a job.

And if you love your job, there's a good chance you're not making enough money to do a whole lot of other stuff. (love + money + time is perfect, like + money + time is a great, easier to attain second place)

Re:Find a job you love....

Find a job you love...

and you'll never work a day in your life...

after they outsource that job to India!

Re:I changed to IT

If that were the choice, I'd rather hate my job for 5 years making $100k/year, put $80k each year in the bank and then quit my job and pay myself $20k each year for the next 25 years out of the saved money to do what I want ;).

Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]

Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India...

What happens when plumbing jobs go offshore? We'll eventually be a country of rich corporations and unemployed citizens.

And it'll smell, from all the shit piling up due to the lack of local plumbers!

Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India...

The problem with the boom is that the textile workers got into IT where they dont belong. I know I should feel sorry for the dot bomb people that lost there jobs but looking back to many of them shouldent have been around a datacenter forget having root / administrator credentials yes they tried hard etc etc etc but a book does not make a good IT person just an ok one. People should have a spark and drive for there job if your not driven to do your job well well I dont feel sorry for you when you get laid off over the 19 year old kid that loves to code / engineer and does it well. Sure there are some things that are book learning but you can tell the difference between the 9-5 people and the ones that do cool things on weekends. Find a job you have passion for and never let it be extinguished otherwise work at dennies or become a corprate drone.

yeah.... I'm just not gonna go anymore

What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Besides 2 chicks at the same time?
Well yeah
I'd do absolutly nothing...
=)

Re:yeah.... I'm just not gonna go anymore

You don't need a million dollars to do nothin. my brother-in-law don't do shit and he's broke.

Time with my family

I work in the software industry, and the recent death of a co-worker has me thinking about what I do with my time. Could I support my family with an at-home job? Could I work somewhere that lets me spend more time with my kids?

Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?

These questions and more are definately floating around our office.

Re:Time with my family

"what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?"

Ask you wife.

On the other hand...

Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?

I've heard this from a lot of people. And certainly there are scores of people who spend too much time at work and not enough with their families. But I always remember what happened to some guy who used to work here: he came down with Alzheimer's in his 40s. I work at a scientific/engineering kind of place and, needless to say, your mind is the most important tool you have. This poor guy got struck down with a terrible disease way before his time. He had to retire. He just couldn't do the work anymore. Here's a case where doing the right thing for your family would have been to save up a big chunk of dough to support them if you died or could no longer work. Of course, he didn't know he was going to get Alzheimer's -- and certainly not at such an early age -- so he can't be blamed if he didn't save up a shitload of money "just in case."

The point I'm trying to make is that these issues are tough. No one has the "right" answer. Maybe your family is better off if you take a pay cut and have more time for them. And maybe your family is better off if you work your ass off when you're young and save up a lot of money to support them in case something happens to you. No way to know for sure. It's questions and issues like this that make life so exciting and terrifying at the same time.

GMD

Re:On the other hand...

One word "insurance".

Yes you can get life insurance, disability insurance and health insurance to make sure your familiy is taken care of.

I know everybody hates insurance but if you get yourself covered properly it is a huge help.

Money and Hours!

It is simple really, it is a pay me world and I want to get paid. I think I'll be happy doing whatever so long as it pays well and I can live comfortably. Of course the hour worked is also a quality look for in a job. I don't exactly want to spend my weekends working.

Re:Money and Hours!

so if you have weekends off and you get paid "well", you have no problem being a porn spammer ?

How about a garbage collector ?
What about a factory worker ?

Yup

If I ever get an offer for the position of "Beatle", I'm outta here.

I kill bugs

All day long, every day, I find bugs in software and kill those bugs.
I just found out that I would make more money if I spend all day long, every day, finding bugs under furniture and kill those bugs.

Where do I sign?

I spent 5 years getting a BC in CS to do a job that a flea-infested, poo-flinging resus monkey could do in its sleep. And I've been doing the same thing for 18 months this week. Quite frankly I'm ready to start considering a change, since I pretty much have a snowball's chance in hell of finding something else in the IT field. I've already informed some of my superiors that if they don't place me in something that more effectively uses my abilities, I'm probably leaving. They've been dangling a carrot in front of me for months about an actual programming position...yeah right.

Re:Where do I sign?

There's a fine line between persistance and pestering. Giving your superiors an ultimatum isn't going to be as affective and convincing them why its in their best interest to give you a development position.

Re:Where do I sign?

Once you are in these positions and they appear on your resume, you are pigeonholed.

It's not only that, but the TYPE of programming you do -- once you do a certain kind, you're pigeonholed in that, too.

For 7 years I was a C/Unix programmer. I was asked (in the "do it or you're fired way"), for the good of the company, to join a new project that was Unix backend and Visual Basic front end, and everyone got training on both. Fine, I thought it would broaden my skill set... ha! Since I picked up on the VB fast, they made me the main VB person on the project. Then I didn't work with Unix at all. At the end of the project, I was "the VB guy", and only got offered VB slots in the company. Looked outside, and no Unix or C shop would even consider someone who had been coding VB for a year. Those seven years before coding C/Unix... gee, must not have happened.

I've been through four companies since then, and I'm STILL coding VB. I come to /. to laugh bitterly at all you innocent college students who still cling to hope. The IT world is a boot, folks, and it impacts on your nether regions again and again and again...

Go be a plumber. That's a useful job in society. Programmers should just be shot -- and when we're lining the streets three deep looking for jobs, that's precisely what they'll do to us, just to keep from blocking traffic.

A plumber?

To go from an air conditioned lab to unclogging shitters is not my idea of job satisfaction.

Re:A plumber?

Some people enjoy the look on people's faces when their clogged toilet flushes again. And some people enjoy the look on people's faces when they get the bill for this poopsmithery.

Well timed article...

I'm thinking of moving out of the IT industry...
What I'm looking for:
Reasonable job satisfaction- No more adjusting the settings on something that's going to get screwed up constantly or need non-stop maintenance. Something physical. And preferably something that people don't consider vital to their life. I can't even guess how many day-traders have threatened to hold me responsible for their ISP being down...

Human interaction-And by human, I don't mean people that can't use their computers.
Being in a job where the only people you see for months on end are 7 other guys kind of gets old. Especially if you don't get out a lot.
Money will/would be nice, but my expenses are low, so I'm fortunate that it won't be a primary concern.

I was given the chance

I was a highly-paid dot-com bubble programmer, and then I was asked to become a vacationer overnight.

Seriously though, it was a very pleasant experience : 2 years of absolute slacking, doing only what I wanted on the money I had made during the bubble, recovering from 5 years of uninterrupted software development death marches that had left me kind of sick, and reflecting on all the mistakes I will never make in the future, either as an employee or as an entrepreneur.

(almost) a true story

One professor of mathematics noticed that his kitchen sink at his home broke down. He called a plumber. The plumber came on the next day, sealed a few screws and everything was working as before. The professor was delighted. However, when the plumber gave him the bill a minute later, he was shocked. "This is one third of my monthly salary!" he yelled. Well, he paid and then the plumber said to him: "I understand your position as a professor. Why don't you come to our company and apply for a plumber position? You will earn three times as much as a professor. But remember, when you apply tell them that you completed only the seventh grade. They don't like educated people."

So it happened. The professor got a plumber job and his life significantly improved. He just had to seal a screw or two occasionally, and his salary went up significantly. One day, the board of the plumbing company decided that every plumber has to go to evening classes to complete the eighth grade. So, our professor had to go there too. It just happened that the first class was math. The evening teacher, to check student's knowledge, asked for a formula for the area of the circle. The person who was ask was the professor. He jumped to the board, and then he realized that he forgot the formula.
He started to reason it and soon filled the board with integrals, differentials and other advanced formulas to conclude the result that he had forgotten. As a result he got "negative pi times r squared." He didn't like the negative, so he started all over again. He got the negative sign again. No matter how many times he tried, he always got a negative. He was frustrated. He looked a bit scared at the class and saw all the plumbers whisper: "Switch the limits of the integral!!"

Cops...

NOT to belittle LEO's, but I've heard that some departments won't hire people whom they feel are too intelligent. They are afraid they will get bored too easily.
There was a case where a guy scored extremely high on one of those little tests, and was therefore not hired. Of course, once his lawyer was done, he probably didn't need to....

Re:(almost) a true story

If you mean the part about the integral, here it is really quickly.

An integral is a way of finding the area under a curve between two points. These two points are called limits. If you evaluate the integral with the limits accidentally reversed, your answer will be negative.

An integral is used in calculus and is basically the same thing as multiplication in algebra. Here's an example of the punch line using algebra. If you have a long piece of wood that is 10-cm tall and you need to cut a piece out of the middle, say from the 3-cm point to the 13-cm point, the area of that piece would be:
area = width * length = 10 * (13 - 3) = 100.

The cut points, 3 cm and 13 cm, are exactly the same as the limits in calculus. If you reverse them you get the negative answer:
10 * (3 - 13) = -100.

Michael. [michael-forman.com]

Would I? Sure, I already did!

I worked in IT for a good number of years, as everything from tech support to running a small computer shop. Eventually, I decided to try something else...I was getting sick of IT, sick of people. I went full tilt the other direction -- I became a trucker. The pay is the same or better (depending upon what I'm doing), and the satisfaction of getting things done, truly, is much better than the endless chain of people in tech support. Fixing pc's was never the same, nor was managing databases. I've also found that it's great seeing the country as a whole -- there's a lot of stuff out there you just don't get to enjoy when you're inside a building 8-12 hours a day.

Me too!

I did the same thing. I run a small brick & mortar business. Much more interesting than writing yet another 3-tier web app in a drab, lifeless cubicle. The upside is that not only is it more interesting, but my long term financial picture is excellent. Instead of taking home an admittedly fat paycheck, my net worth is skyrocketing because my business is. It would take a salary of about $1M to get me back in IT. Good riddens!!

I'm not in it for the money....

On some really bad days, I sometimes consider leaving the IT industry and becoming a botanist.
What's the worst that could happen? Your bulbs don't germinate on time? Maybe some of your plants get some bugs... It's not like 500 employees breathing down your neck because the server is down.

But I would really miss working with the people. Go figure. The source of most of my IT pain is really the only reason for working in the industry.

Illusionary

Don't forget that the grass is always greener.

So chemists want to be he-man plumbers, swinging a pick and gaining satisfaction from building something tangible? Plumbers wish they could sit on their asses out of the weather and keep their fingers soft and clean on a keyboard all day. Programmers wish they could be making explosions in a chemistry lab, wearing a cool white coat and getting all the chicks!!

More enjoyment out of life

It's getting too stressful worrying about layoff-this, RSI-that. I work in an industry (3D animation) that in ten years will probably be smaller than it is now. When I change careers it will probably be because I'm too tired of being one of the rats clinging to Titanic's rigging. This used to be a job that I loved (and you're right, I never worked a day), but that has changed and it's a job now.

I'll switch careers when I find something that will make me as happy as doing 3d work did five years ago.

Stress.

What factors would make you seriously consider leaving your current career for another?

If I didn't like it, of course.

Right now, I work for a private college in the IT department. It's pleasant work, for the most part. Taking a job like this definitely caps your potential income, but frankly, there's a lot more important factors than money.

If I'm spending a third of my weekday hours somewhere, or more, why the hell would I do it somewhere I hate? That's like just _asking_ to be miserable the rest of the time.

--saint

Already doing it

I changed out of IT after the crash in 2000. I started teaching college as a stopgap measure and found it immensely rewarding despite the drastic drop in pay. I got certified to teach math in Florida, and I'm now here looking to teach kids in the public school system. Job satisfaction was the only motivating factor.

I get paid to

sit at home, hack perl code, and watch tv/listen to music. I work in my underwear most days...in fact I'm posting in my underwear. I have sex while i'm at work when my gf comes over. I can drink if i want, smoke whenever i want, get a tan on my deck since i have a laptop, whatever i want. sometimes i walk downtown and go to a coffee shop for a change of scenery.

plus i get paid well :) what more can I ask for? maybe i could buy a house close to where i am now, which is 3 blocks from the beach.

Lets see...

A molecular biologist with a PhD at University of Birmingham, in the UK, quits his lab position to become a plumber, since a plumber apparently earns twice what he currently makes (~US$42K).

Hopefully if you are in science, you are doing what you do for reasons other than financial gain. Ideally, one should be doing what they are doing in science to make a difference . Really, because there are a ton of things people can do that are much easier that writing papers, doing good science and applying for grants that make much more money than do your typical scientist. Take for instance the auto mechanic who works on my neighbors BMW. That dude (mechanic) clears six figures easy. Another set of examples: Before I went to graduate school, one of my jobs was a mechanic for old Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. That was not too bad in terms of income and certainly covered the cost of tuition. The carpenter we paid to make our couch makes some pretty good money. The dudes that replaced our sewer line and driveway cleaned up to the tune of $4000 or so. So, if you are just in it for the money, go get an MBA or a plumbing license or something.

Hand Made Guitars

I am currently building mountain dulcimers for sale and I'm learning to build acoustic guitars and mandolins. After playing music all my life and guitar for about 30 years I just feel like this is the right move. And now that we've been told that our company is going to be outsourcing our jobs it turns out to be good that I have a backup plan.

The way I feel about it is this: I can sit in a cubicle doing what is essentially rearranging random ones and zeros into non-random order to create something of value (although most of my time is actually spent doing documentation, reports, supervision, meetings etc).
OR I can take a bunch of raw pieces of wood and create something that is not only beautiful, but allows a musician to create even more beauty and music.

Which one sounds more satisfying to you?

The more I write code the more I want to build guitars for a living.

[BTW, I'd love to add a shameless plug for my website right about here but I'd probably just slashdot myself and end up taking my whole site down]

Been there, done that (kind of)

PhD in Astronomy, 1998. My thesis dragged out endlessly so that once I'd finished it, I couldn't stand the thought of doing the work to create some papers out of it. Also, I wanted to come back home (New Zealand) and astronomy jobs are hard to get here.
1998-2003: Commercial programmer. OK at first, but eventually I was just doing the same old stuff again and again. I was getting very bored and I think because of that, unproductive.
So now I'm an applied mathematician in bioinformatics (having studied no biology since early high school). I was earning 40% more at the previous job, but it is worth it to be doing something interesting again.
Money is nice (a friend once called it "the sincerest form of appreciation") but having new, challenging and interesting things to do is more important.

Post-doc? Of course plumbers make more...

This isn't meant to be a troll or anything, but Post-doctoral fellows (aka post-docs) are training-type positions like medical residents. They earn slave wages under the guise of training. Of course, after their 3,4,5,6 year training stint, their earnings go up exponential to make up for lost time.

A junior technician (bachelor's degree) can make around $50K USD here in the US. A PhD can command more as a "mere lab tech." That's IF s/he wants to continue to do science. They can get jobs reasonably easily as *shudder!* consultants. In fact, I went to seminar on how to tweak your resume (a science PhD resume, anyway) to get a job in consulting.

I seriously doubt he'll be making over $100K USD after 5 years as a plumber. With his PhD he can, if he plays his cards right.

In the words of Clark W. Grsiwold...

"It's so beautiful, I feel so ... I feel my juices are just you know ... it makes me so ... I want to write, I want to paint, I want to sculpt something massive. I've got a creative urge. I wonder if there's a men's room around here."

I'd give up my day job in a heartbeat if there was any money in the massive sculpture market.

Median Plumbers Salary in the US -- $32,406

Here. [salary.com]

Passion ... ?

This article is a little scattered. One person is quitting his job as a *molecular biologist with a Ph.D." to work as a plumber, while another person is switching to training greyhounds and yet another is just moving to Canada. The reasons for all of these changes may be way unrelated to each other.

But so what? Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean that you should. I've made in excess of $100,000/year as a software consultant for four years. Now I'm finishing my English degree and studying poetry. People do this sort of thing all the time and it usually comes when they're a little older and have a better idea of what matters to them in life and what gives them the energy to get up in the morning and face the day. The molecular biologist has some big bills, perhaps. Or maybe he's just a smart guy that put in a ton of work -- Ph.D.'s, after all, aren't earned in a few weekends of spare time study, at least not from a reputable school -- and then found that the reality of research is different from the intellectual stimulation of textbooks.

Do I like software? Yes, I do. I compete on TopCoder, read books about functional programming, and throw mud at SCO. But writing and literature is, simply speaking, closer to my heart. For another person it's training an ancient breed of dogs. And for yet another person it's going to Canada to commune with, well, Canadians I guess.

The fact is that, given basic education, intelligence and wherewithal, we live in a world where you don't *have* to settle for doin' what yer daddy done, or towing the line, or staying "safe" if you don't want to.

This molecular plumber guy is just searching for a reward, I guess. After a few years of the realities of a plumber, it's possible yet he may look fondly back at his days as a molecular biologist ...

$42k a year

First off a plumber makes more than someone with a phd?

Anyway, something similar to this happened to me, minus the 42k and phd. I recently swapped careers after over 8 years as an automotive tech. I decided I was tired of going home greasy, busting my knuckles, and working out in the cold. Now I'm in school part time, and working with the same company only in the IT department. The dirtiest I get at work now is from a rabid dust bunny inside of a case or two. Needless to say I am happy of the change. Once school is completed I'll make at least twice what I did working on cars. I would have been reluctant to change had I not been able to stay with the same company. I know of many people who have their degrees in Computer Science, and cannot get a job either from the market bieng saturated or a lack of hands on experience. I am lucky enough to have the best of both worlds, job security, working at my degree, and getting hands on experience.

As for the plumber with a phd, my father always said "It doesn't matter if you make minimum wage washing dishes, as long as your happy with what you do."

Re:$42k a year

job security

Why do you think that you have job security? People who think that they have job security are usually the first ones laid off. Write this down, and repeat it every morning when you brush your teeth: NOBODY HAS JOB SECURITY. As soon as you think that, you get slack, and forget it, your job is in India. No offense, dude, but you can't offshore auto mechanic jobs, and people will ALWAYS needs their cars fixed. IT jobs are being outsourced at an insane rate, and jobs are disappearing completely faster than you can say "IT". You're gonna be a training treadmill that's only going faster and faster. You think new cars every year is bad? Hell, at least the way an engine works stays pretty much the same year after year. In IT, get ready to learn a whole new skill set, I'd say, every 6 months. You really should think about this realistically. IT is about the least secure field for *anyone* these days, including Indians (their new jobs are moving to China and Vietnam, now)

Relative Hue of thisHill.Grass vs. thatHill.Grass

I met a gentleman as I was going through orientation at my current job who had gone off to work at odd jobs for a few years after having a sort of "Office Space" epiphany. He was tired of the bureaucracy, the mind games, the control issues, and just wanted to go do good, honest work.

He has since come back to working in the business world, which is why he now works for my company. Why? Well, he discovered that as an "odd job" laborer:

You have to work HARD.

You make no money.

You have no benefits.

You still have to deal with pompous, overbearing individuals who think they know, when in fact, they do not.

You do not get vacations.

Now given, YMMV, but I have found that the key to job happiness is having a good balance of expectations versus fulfillment. 3 years ago, when my expecations of employment were "I want a pool table, I want to go drinking every night with my coworkers, I want to work 80-hour weeks and be an IPO millionaire," I would have been miserable at my current job. The place is kinda corporate, after all. We have cubes, and use buzzwords, and there are "are you giving good customer service?" banners hanging up.

But now, what I want in a job includes things like vacation time, a chance to play with some fun technologies, good money, and a job that I can come in, do, and get outta here as quickly as possible. So now my job is a lot more fulfilling, partially because I found a different job, and partially because I modified my expectations.

If you are really miserable at your job, by all means, go elsewhere. I certainly did. But be prepared to take a good look at yourself and consider that part of the problem may lie with you.

Just get paid

Most of my life I've gotten the advice to figure out what you love and find some fool to pay you for doing it. Now I'm not so sure. Go find a secure profession that will pay you well enough to live your life (hint: a life isn't what you do at work). Make sure there are enough opportunities that you can switch employers whenever you get sick of one. Then go do what you love. You're selling some of your life to your employer to finance the rest of your life.

The US is in trouble

I read most of the posts here and to summarize, we geeks are fed up to the top of our heads with the current state of affairs. Namely, corporations that don't give a damn about us. Unfortunately, most of us are indentured servants to our corporate masters at this time.

On the bright side, when the job market comes back these same corporate masters are going to wonder what hit them. Widespread walkouts, or extortion (large retention bonuses, immediate promotions/raises). If the idiot CxO's don't get a clue now, they are going to watch their companies implode as the brain drain hits them.

These sentiments mirror those of my colleagues. Our company had better get a clue too, or it won't be pretty.

Eh....

Mod down this rant if you want, but it is an objective opinion of the consensus of this thread.

Everyone here talks about how they can't leave IT, and "boo-hoo" that this corporation that cares little for you offshores your job.

The PhD in question realized that plumbing pays more (and to reply to another thread, a plumber can make much more than 100k USD if they want to).

Personally, I hate my IT job. I do network administration for a logistics company. We also have a help desk (which for some strange reason is my boss) and three programmers who program in something easier than VB (magic software out of israel if you are interested...shudder).

I loathe my IT job, loathe the fact that nobody understand what I do, loathe the fact that I am forgotten about, loathe the fact that I put in 80 hour weeks and get chastised for the raise I threaten to quit over if I didn't get it. I am going to quit. As someone else stated, money is the best form of flattery. Who will pay me better than me? Nobody. So I am starting my own buisness.

Yes it is a horrible plan (ebay selling combined with windshield repair) but I do have aspiritions (would like to start developing games for cell phones and pdas)

So I am leaving my position in about 3 months to start it. Will I make as much? No. I only make 40k now, but with benefits that is probably nearer to 50k a year ( no bonus, no matching 401k ). Do I have to potential to make more? Hell yes I do. I am greatly suprized that people haven't taken the ititiative to start up there own niche based software companies. I am about to, and plan on hiring part time java programmers from wherever they pop up, as so long as they can do the work.

Not everyone has the prudence to start there own buisness, not everyone can code 4000 (good) lines in a week, not everyone can program a pix without looking at it.

If you love coding, but hate your job, find a niche that nobody else has filled. Write damn good software, and actively work on getting it marketed to the people who will use it. Maybe a niche to you is an answering machine for your linux box that emails you the ogg version of the message. Maybe it is a good time management system. Or software for logistics, or dental offices, or time management. Is each one of these things something that will make you a millionare? Of course not. If you change certain aspects of it, and spin the marketing a certain way, and sell it correctly, you could easily be sucessful enough and make enough bread for your family.

I still come back here even though 95% of the posters on slashdot haven't a clue, and usually don't mod up the intellegent posts because they don't agree with them.

Favorite Quote:

"Oh, you hate your job?! There's a support group for that. It's called everyone,
they meet at the bar."
-- Drew Carry, the Drew Carry Show.

I quit a job to be happy

I did this (sort of) seven years ago. I was unemployed from a sysadmin job, and was faced with the choice of A) accepting a job doing similar work for an accounting firm, with a nice compensation package but long hours, or B) going back to school to study graphic design and illustration, while piecing together an income from freelancing/consulting.

I won't kid you: It hasn't been a blissfest. And the work opportunities for someone with a BS in Comp Sci, a BFA in Digital Media, and an odd assortment of work experience are a lot more limited than I anticipated. But when I think about how I would've spent the last seven years of my life if I'd chosen the other path (i.e. wearing a tie in a cubicle ranch and still just wondering idly if could ever learn to paint), I feel a lot better about my choice.

plumbing insurance

IANAP, but I have a freind who is a handyman. He does all sorts of jobs - carpentry, electrical, landscaping, but he won't touch plumbing because the insurance costs are astronomical. Apparently, anything with a blowtorch in tight flammable spaces where a fire may start unnoticed and eventually burn down the house... tends to have a high premium.

consulting + moonlighting = more than you make

What you probably make: $40K-50K
What people will pay for consultants: $100-$200/hr

If the consultant is steady work, the obvious comes out. Less work, better pay. Calculate it for yourself, make sure you match health insurance and 401k offerings. You'll find that 15 hours a week at $100/hr is a good way to go, IF you can get steady work.

Plumbers have it made. Plumbing is slow, tedious, DEPENDABLE work. A simple job is a minimum of 2 hours, $100/hr, well, one decent job a week will pay the bills. Going out on your own makes far more, and if you can secure work, the rewards are endless. Not having steady work is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot. It's a risk, weigh the options for you take it.

I'll finish with a true story:

I make around $40K at my job. I have all the certifications (MCSE, CNA, CCNA) that I need. I perform the tasks of those certifications on a regular basis. My boss has decided that my $20/hr opinion isn't worth as much as a $150/hr consultant, with no credentials, who has never visited our site. I built it from scratch, I know it inside out. Obviously I'm more qualified, I needed to teach him a lesson.

So, I tricked him. I have a side business, and I dropped off a business card for a "local consulting firm". We conversed over e-mail, and set up a time. He agreed to pay $100 for the initial consultation. I went home for lunch, changed into khakis with a shirt and tie, and showed up as the consultant. His face was beet red when he found out it was me, but I'm $100 richer and my boss is more eager to listen to me.

My take...

Find out what it is that you really love to do. While I was unemployed, I took up cooking and watching the Food Network [foodtv.com]. Then I got a job back into programming and wondered if I would rather be a chef. So then I took some cooking classes at nights and even interned a night at a fine dining restaurant that's highly rated by AAA (US Locale-centric, I believe... sorry).

Getting that behind-the-scenes look at the job I thought I wanted was SO valuable! Chefs work hard (12 hour days or more, 6 days a week) and don't get paid all that much (I guess there are exceptions) - it really gave me the chance to see how good I had it as a programmer and that's what I really loved to do - to solve puzzles and write the code to solve 'em. My urges to cook are satisfied by cooking at home on a hobbyist basis.

So that's what I would say ... do some research into what you're thinking of switching to on an extra-curricular basis. Don't leave your job until you're sure ... well, that is, if you have a job. There is some truth to the adage "the grass is greener on the other side of the pasture." You don't want to find out after switching sides that the side you were on was already pretty green.

I'd also recommend a good book: What Should I Do with My Life?: The True Story of People Who Answered the Ultimate Question [barnesandnoble.com], by Po Bronson ... we've talked about it before [slashdot.org]. I've read most (if not all -- I forget) of it. It doesn't answer your questions, but it does offer some insights into people who have done similar things.

I Changed My Job: I Came Into IT

I'm 51, probably a lot older than most /. readers. I've worked as a calligrapher, mailman, gravedigger, copy editor, technical writer, stock boy, lifeguard, mechanic. I've worked with the federal government, the Illinois State government, and the government of Cook County. I've cleaned toilets in women's rest rooms and been a clerk/typist at Cook County Juvenile Court (one circle of Hell I hope never to revisit). I've been a research assistant in an ophthalmologic research center, and written audiovisual scripts for drug companies, and operated a mag-card machine in a typing pool. And no, I am not making any of this up.

I got into IT 20 years ago, back when a guy with some smarts and some good work habits could pick up K&R, learn it, and get a job. Having sampled something of the broader working work, I must say that I love IT. I'm with a small company where I get to code nearly all day long, there's minimal political bullshit, and the pay and bennies are excellent. Writing good code is so much more challenging and fun than cleaning toilets or digging graves, you have no idea!

In my best of all possible worlds, I would make my living as a musician. But that is not to be: lack of opportunity, and (to be truthful) lack of talent stand in the way. But for me, IT is a damn good second best. Take it from me, that greener grass you see out there probably is astroturf.

A few thoughts on why one might look to a new path

I can think of a few reasons for entertaining a career change. The top of the list, IMHO, would be being involuntarily lesuired. Something I recently experienced.

I spent a lot of money getting a graduate degree in my field from a top school. No, to be honest, it was the top school for my niche industry. I finished my degree a few years ago and landed myself a sweet job doing what I schooled for and making a very decent living. I thought I was set. Perhaps I was too optimistic. Several months ago I found I was summoned into the conference room one Friday afternoon and informed that the company couldn't afford my position anymore and I was being let go.

Aside from the usual progression of emotions for such a situation, the last six months of my newfound "freedom" have been spent figuring out how to make every dollar stretch and how top find new employment. That new employment, I hoped, would be in my field and at a similar salary to that which I had. I've discovered that that is prolly not going to happen. So what now? COntemplation of a new completely different job, that's what.

While I still hope out hope for landing the position I'd prefer at this point (affording the opportunity to pay off my debt and send my wife to grad school so she can move into a new career path as orignially planned before my forced extended vacation without pay) I am considering a drastic change. Heck, maybe it'll even mean more in terms of salary.

So now that I've rambled and ranted about my situation--I thank you for the couch time--my point is that a good reason to consider a job change as suggested in the article is being forced to change your job because you've been downsized.

'nuff said

If you're young, do what makes you happy

When I just got out of college, I got a sweet job at a large software company. At least, it seemed sweet at first. They gave me a great salary, generous benefits, and reasonable hours. However, it was boring as hell. My life was basically the reality version of the movie "Office Space". I had too many managers, went through too much red tape, and basically only had to do 15 minutes of actual work a week. I figured I was too young to hate my job so much so I changed. I now have a job that pays less, has no benefits, and has me working long hours. But at least I spend my time working a job I like and not spending my free time wishing I had a better one.

So what's the lesson learned? When you're young, work the job you like. You have your entire life to work jobs you hate and once you get that house, new car, wife, and children it will be tougher to leave a bad job if it pays well. When you're young and basically all you have in your life it work, make that work as enjoyable as possible. Plan for the future, but don't let that possible future ruin your present.

income REALLY matters!

Sounds like you sort of realize this, but job satisfaction as a pure motive is insanely overrated.

First, talk to musicians and ask them if they'd do anything differently. I have, and I've heard members of big-city symphonies talk of how the amount of practice and effort needed erodes their ability to 'enjoy' their favorite music. They make good money, at least. Talking to bar bands and others, the lifestyle gets old and the tough choices never get easier (family vs. career, commercialism vs. artistic purity, etc). On the other hand, people who love music but have a day job doing something else seem to retain that deep love for it.

Second, there's the financial side. Money matters. If not to you, then to the people who'll be collecting your rent and selling you stuff.

Rather than dwelling on satisfaction only, find balance. You mentioned plumbing: If you're ok with the technical challenges and don't mind the dirt, plumbing is good work with steady demand and strong customer incentives to speak respectfully to you. You can work long hours and REALLY make bank (I supervised one union crew where the pipefitters were getting 5x their $40/hour pay by Sunday night), or just build a strong clientele and work 9-5 with a vicious additional fee to minimize off-hours calls. Likewise, there are profitable careers that are fairly painless, no matter what your talents or inclination. I'm lucky because most of the stuff I enjoy pays well. Had I not honed in on computer work, I could have stuck with engineering, or architecture. I'd even considered being a lawyer (but hated the idea of undergoing surgery to have my conscience removed, so no go there...). Still, the sheer joy I've felt during college philosophy lectures, or literature classes could have been a compelling thing if I ignored the whole MONEY thing. Instead, I just tell myself I might swerve more toward something loveable and low-paying once I get enough invested to guarantee a cushy retirement.

There are a zillion other ways that balancing money and satisfaction seems wisest: You can work your day job and subsidize artistic urges. My wife paid for her own bronze castings for her sculpture. Without our income level, that might be beyond her ability to spend. Strangely, being an executive AND an artist seems to give her double-plus charisma: she gets bonus points at work by people that want to pal up to an artist, and her artwork sells better because these successful executives buy & display pieces. Wierd, huh? As for me, my job's projects have peaks and lulls, and the lulls let me take several hours off midday to help at my kids' school, go fishing, or whatever. Good pay, an ok job, and flexibility are a great balance, in my book. Further, our jobs' higher pay lets us travel, invest more, and indulge on things we consider important.

Last of all, I watched my dad work for years in the public sector. Slaved away for so-so pay. Projects he spearheaded are named after people that donated volunteer effort or money to support these projects. None are named after him. All the work, none of the glory. It's a little thing, but it still matters. Had he picked a more lucrative career that he liked, then been a dedicated supporter of his favorite cause, he'd have gotten more credit.

So, don't choose between money and something you LOVE. It's not black and white. Go grey. If possible, pick a choice that's more lucrative, so long as you merely LIKE it. Nothing slaps the grin back on your face after a long week like a huge paycheck, or some gift to yourself like courtside Lakers tickets. And nothing saps the grin away faster than learning the low-pay job you hoped to love isn't what you expected.

Re:They must have not heard of entry level...

"...I actually moonshined for a friend..."

You must mean MOONLIGHTED.

Moonlight : too work a second job after your primary job or a '80 detective show with Cybil Shepard (back when she was still a hottie) and Bruce Willis (back when he was still screwing Demi Moore)

Moonshine : an alcoholic beverage made with corn, wheat, or whatever one can get ahold of that will ferment usually causes blindness and draw the attention of revenuers -- the stuff granny made on the Beverly Hillbillies