Alternative Enterprise Anti-Virus Solutions?

Darth_brooks asks: "I admin for a great non-profit organization that has spent the last year rebuilding after a massive fire. We've got a pretty tight system running now, especially compared to the unmanaged chaos that existed before the fire. Firefox for surfing and T-bird for for e-mail, WSUS for updates, and we're slowly replacing Office with OpenOffice. But out anti-virus solution (command AV, a holdover from our old system) is not cutting the mustard. Specifically the management console isn't exactly reliable, and we just don't feel like we're getting our money's worth. What alternatives can the Slashdot crowd suggest?"

"The two obvious names that come to mind are Norton and Mcafee. Since all of our machines are donated, we really don't have the resources for Norton (who does?) and Mcafee's just been dealt a black eye. In addition, we're on a limited budget. Our machines are mostly P2 & P3's, and we're an XP / Active Directory shop with some scattered Fedora & BSD boxes scattered about for non-desktop tasks.

The biggest features we're looking for are the ability to centrally manage updates (which rules of AVG's free edition), and a reasonable price tag for licenses for 50-60 machines. Our current solution is only in place because we signed a long term licensing agreement, and I don't want to see us get into another deal for a product that doesn't turn out to be as god as advertised. I'd also like to hear some of the Horror / Success stories from users."

NOD32

http://www.nod32.com.sg/home/home.php [nod32.com.sg]

Considering you're a non-profit, check out...

techsoup.org - donated and discount technology equipment products. We support a local Boys and Girls Club, and they got their software through there.

Good luck!

Clam AV

I would highly recomend checking out Clam AV.

It comes in both *nix [clamav.net] and Windows [sosdg.org] varients and works pretty well for system scanning. It also works very well in a mail server tool-chain.

MTW

Just get AVG and be done with it

Two year licenses are incredibly useful and their software doesnt suck like Norton.

AVG takes the approach of just working behind the scenes and doing it well...Norton takes the approach of "I need to constantly justify my existance by letting the user know I am doing...something"

AVG works great, so go with it. Their support is pretty good too from the couple of times when I needed to contact them.

It sounds like you pretty much said AVG is good and reasonable so just go with it.

Re:Just get AVG and be done with it

I've not ever had a slowdown that I can attribute to AVG. Prior to trying them I used F-Secure (ate CPU like candy to no appreciable benefit), McAfee (Random crashes on shutdown and the occasional munged update file that'll eat my data? Are we sure that NAI isn't in the virus WRITING business?!?!), and Norton (gods above, make the pop-up notifications and tray icons and wacky security alerts stop! Plus it also makes my system crawl). AVG just gets the job done and doesn't (well, other than at log in) get in my face. Certainly it doesn't bundle anti-spyware but why aren't you using MS Defender for that? And firewalls? D-Link has some nice hardware that'll augment the Windows boxed package nicely as well as giving you wireless and other toys. =P

Re:Just get AVG and be done with it

You should check your facts before calling people shills.

Ad-Aware's free edition is called Ad-Aware Personal and updates have never stopped being free. In fact, I just tried it myself, just to make sure. Go here [lavasoftusa.com] and see for yourself.

ClamAV/ClamWin

ClamAV might work. THe only downside is that it doesn't yet have a real-time process scanner. If you can keep people from executing what they download before scanning it for viruses, ClamWin [clamwin.com] might do the job. You could manage the virus updates via your logon script, or just use the normal internet update. Plus ClamAV works on your Linux boxen too!

F-Prot

F-prot from Frisk software. http://www.f-prot.com/ [f-prot.com]

I just checked, and a 60 seat corporate license with full updates would run you $240 a year.

pay for avg

The biggest features we're looking for are the ability to centrally manage updates (which rules of AVG's free edition)

actually, wouldn't the license agreement rule out AVG FREE edition in your situation?

AVG Free Edition is for private, non-commercial, single-home computer use only. Use of AVG Free Edition within any organization or for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited. (from http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1/ [grisoft.com])

however, they do have a fairly decent commercial product for the price. look at their network edition http://www.grisoft.com/doc/Networks/lng/us/tpl/tpl 01/ [grisoft.com] only $8.20 per seat, per year, at the 50-74 seat price point. this version includes centrialized management and lan updates. runs on all released windows win95 and up, and i386 linux.

Uh, use open source?

Why are you paying for this software if you're a non profit? On, or before your mail server, chain together ClamAV and Bitdefender using Mailscanner or Amasis-new - have a cron updating each of these daily (or hourly if you're a tin foil hat type)

Do you have any specific requirements that would not allow this to work?

I'd call AVG...

It wouldn't hurt to call up Grisoft and explain that you're a non-profit looking for a good AV solution. You might get a pretty sweet deal if you talk to them.

Re:I'd call AVG...

I know libraries can get a 30% discount, and when you renew you pay only 50% of the inital purchase, which lasts for 2 years instead of only 1. Considering AV is more important at the firewall and email filter than the desktop anyway, it's great to save on the desktop install price with AVG.

AVG Admin will save you time. If you use Windows Desktop Protection in the Shared Computer Toolkit, Grisoft will even send you the script for auto-updates when Windows Updates from your WSUS run.

AVG Free edition is ruled out by the licensing which doesn't cover non-home users pretty much. Even libraries are excluded from using it legally.

AVG

AVG has a enterprise version that's much cheaper than norton. You should check it out.

Sophos AV

We just switched to it after battling the behemoths, and it's been a real boon to me. Management console works well, the product has been catching a ton of stuff that Symantec didn't, price was good, and it does a nice job of push installation (even here - we've got Samba domain controllers - it didn't care). I've had good experiences with their phone jockeys also. Downside - simple file sharing has to be turned off on winxp clients, but if you're on AD that's easy enough to fix.

Don't get TrendMicro OfficeScan

Although it has great corporate management capabilities, like a centralized program/dictionary update server and permissions on settings (so end users can't stop/break it), it's better than your average ghoul at sucking the life out of your desktop computers.

Re:Don't get TrendMicro OfficeScan

Uhm yeah it took me all of two minutes to disable it on my box at work, even though it was locked down. The fact that TrendMicro put a backdoor (a default password for when you forget the real one) in it helped quite a bit.

Get Sophos

I would invest in Sophos Antivirus. I am using it in our office and the program is great. Install the enterprise manager on the server and it will automatically download new versions when available and all the desktops will then download them from there.

Setup MailMonitor on a Linux box for incoming email scanning and you will end up with a solid AV solution.

Symantec Antivirus Corporate is Better than Norton

I've had pretty good luck with SAV, it doesn't have the same problems that Norton (the consumer product) does. Both resource utilization hasn't been an issue even on our sloweest Celeron 500 running XP and it keeps getting AV updates perpetually.

Cost will still be an issue though.

Bitdefender

I only use ClamAV at home, but if I was compelled to buy some anti-virus software, Bitdefender is the software I would get. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1850851,00.as p [pcmag.com] shows how it detected 6 viruses, without signatures. For home use it is cheap, and for corporate use it seems to have reasonable prices as well.

PCCillin

I don't know much about enterprise AV, however a friend of mine is the IT manager for a decent sized food packing plant and I know he runs the corporate PCCillin (from TrendMicro [trendmicro.com]) and raves about it.

I use their personal edition and have been very happy about it (doesn't feel nearly as bloated as symantec and mcafee will often feel). However this is all based on feel... I don't have any benchmarks or evidence for you...

Trend Micro

I would highly suggest you try out Trend Micro. Centrally managed scans and updates, installs across a web-browser, and it works. They sell by block, so if you need 60 licenses you get each license for cheaper than if you needed 50 or less. It also keeps a good watch on spyware.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC= 639856 [cdw.com]

AVAST!

Try Avast Antivirus. It's got a far more powerful and configurable network manager than Symantec's, costs about half as much (for 3 years!), and updates MUCH more frequently, using smaller updates. It also automatically uses a local mirroring system so that your clients don't hog the bandwidth trying to get updates from the internet. The client has a smaller memory footprint than Symantec's client.

The best part is you can download it and run it completely unrestricted for 60 days to see if it works for you.

Linux

Use Linux and be done with it. No need for AV software.

Sophos SBE

What's a "reasonable" price? Sophos Small Business is a good product, and less than $50 a head. That's reasonable for not having the machines get eaten alive by viruses - but if you're a non-profit I'm disappointed you're paying all that money to Microsoft in license fees instead of putting it into your core mission. Go Linux and the price will be very "reasonable". Anti-everything software is just part of the cost of running a Windows shop. Microsoft also specifies server-based imaging software now as essential, so add that in too.

Kaspersky Anti-Virus

Kaspersky has good multi-year and multi-PC discounts, and central-administration options. It also does a MUCH better job than Norton or (God-forbid) McAfee do.

Hit their website [kaspersky.com] and you can even get a 1-month demo [kaspersky.com] from them to see if it'll work for you.

Don't discount McAfee

McAfee with EPO server to manage deployment and updates works very well. It might be overkill for a small place such as yours, but if you want to maintain a 'tight shop', EPO is a good fit. Besides updating clients, it also collects data on any infections, and the clients with the "rougue system sensor*" installed can notify you of clients on the network who don't have AV installed or don't have the "Epo agent*" (the client part) installed.

*Note to open Source software makers - this is a good example how to name your wares. Names like "Rogue System Sensor", though sensationalistic and irrelevant in themselves, sound better than names like "GIMP".

I assume by McAfee hvaing a "black eye", you meant the recent definition fiasco. We were not affected by it. We've been with McAfee since 3.x and have never been compelled to switch to anytyhing else. McAfee has always has good business support - for example, starting way back with 4.x, their installer has been msi based and has fully supported being deployed via AD group policies.

Ok, enough pimping McAfee. I sound like a f--ing salemans here.

Some others are recommending Avast. I really like Avast and use it at home, but when the time came to renew our McAfee license, I went out and priced Avast's Enterprise solution and it was actually more expensive than McAfee for the number of license we needed. Maybe their pricing is better now, or better for smaller number of clients.

Symantec, unfortunately

Last year, I replaced an old NT4 server with Linux in a small business with around 20 XP clients. I hoped to find a Linux solution to manage antivirus and replace the very expensive Symantec Enterprise licenses, but I didn't.

I do have ClamAV scanning incoming emails, but it is still necessary to have a local AV on the machines. I don't like Symantec and find it too expensive, but I must say it really works. So I did a fresh minimal install of Win2K on the old server box, and setup Symantec Enterprise on that. You can install the AV on the clients from the server, and it keeps them updated.

The licenses were just renewed, because I still have not found something else.

The problem is that, to manage the clients, the server needs to be Windows. Samba does not offer remote registry access to the clients, and it's RPC capabilities are not sufficiently developed for such tasks.

But you seem to have a Windows AD server anyway, so I would say go with Symantec. (And either find an acceptable deal with Symantec, or cheat a little on the number of licenses: the server doesn't seem to mind if there are a few more clients).

An alternative would of course be to switch all machines to Linux and/or Mac, but ...

Kaspersky

Relatively few people have heard of them, but it is by far the best antivirus software I've ever used (and most reviews agree).

Uses even fewer resources than AVG (they claim to work with Pentium Is, but I've never used with anything lower than a 500 MHz P3), and far better at actually stopping viruses.

Their info can be found here: http://www.kaspersky.com/kav6 [kaspersky.com]

Trend Micro

I'm a really big fan of Trend Micro ever since installing it a year and a half ago at a small business I consulted with. Their CSM solution covers all the bases for a small company (includes a very effective spam blocker at the Exchange level), their web-based management interface is great, updates are quick and painless, and remote managment is a breeze.

Before that I'd used Norton's solution, and while it worked, I never want to go back. In that version (7-something, I think, maybe 8) it was a real pain to try to configure central updates to save bandwidth (less of an issue now, admittedly).

Short version: give Trend Micro a try. I think they have demo licenses available.

Is antivirus still relevant?

I just want to know. If you're using recent Firefox/Thunderbird/OpenOffice, then how would a virus even get onto your machine?

ClamWin [clamwin.com] may be all the AntiVirus you need, if you need any at all. You're already scanning incoming email, after all...

Nevermind. I use Linux, I obviously will never fully get the stupidities of Windows Malware Control.

ClamAV is quite good - but there are tricks

As with most solutions to these situations you may find yourself needing a -mix-.

Personally, I use ClamAV on the mailserver (incombination with Xamime - http://xamime.com/ [xamime.com] works well and keeps a majority of the things out.

However, you really need an orthagonal approach too, that includes banning things that aren't meant to be coming into your network in the first place, as well has having perhaps a different branded AV agent on the client machines.

Getting rid of (if possible) the vectors used by the viruses on the workstations helps a lot too. ActiveX, Macros (okay, not many people can live without those in office I suppose).

AVG's Pro Edition

The full not-free AVG has all the features you need, and they have a generous discount for nonprofits, and are generally nice and flexible. Sure, it's not free, but it's not as expensive as you might think.

F-Prot

http://www.f-prot.com/ [f-prot.com]

$5 per PC/yr, less in volume. At >100 it goes down to $2/yr.

A bit of a clunky interface, but the users will never have to bother with it. Set it to auto-update from a server (which updates from f-prot), tell it to mail you when a virus hits the real-time scanner. Simple, cheap, fast, and effective. The updater and real-time scanner take less than 1MB memory.

Try the free trial, keep the (free) DOS scanner on a bootable CD with your tools, even if you don't buy the GUI version.

Boot From CD

n/t

Software Restriction Policies

Don't rely on a virus scanner since they are usually bloated and there is no guarantee they catch the latest malware. Windows provides a mechanism called Software Restriction Policies [microsoft.com] that allows you to prevent the execution of unknown programs. Might be a bit difficult to configure but eliminates the possibility of running a virus or other malware.

Norman is pretty good.

Norman is pretty decent. It's good at being quiet and sitting in the background without bothering the user. The central managing service is also quite good. The main server distributes updates via the LAN so clients don't have to hit the net for updates. It's pretty easy to set up multiple configuration and scheduling groups. Even installing and uninstalling clients from the main server is easy as pie.

I suggest you take a look at it. I have no idea how much it costs, but it "just works" pretty well.

Maybe I didn't drill down...

...but many of the smaller and some of the larger organizations have a program for donating software to non-profit organizations. I don't have the details on me, but about four years ago, I helped a non-profit law firm get either 100% free donations from companies like Symantec, or nearly free.

So before suggesting features, he did ask in his post about price and I think he was hoping someone would have a free workgroup level AV program, but I think he should actually ask if any of the major and maybe even minor AV companies donate software to NPOs.

Symantec Corporate

The management console is the best and most useful I have seen. We have used it all of our clients for the last 4-5 years. Version 10.X also now includes spyware protection. Unfortunately, Techsoup does not carry it from what I understand.

BitDefender, comparison link

I haven't seen any BitDefener recommendations yet. I will be considering it along with Kaspersky, F-Secure and NOD32.

BitDefender
http://www.bitdefender.com/ [bitdefender.com]

The New Virus Fighters: Our Antivirus Picks
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,12416 3,pg,3,00.asp [pcworld.com]

Kaspersky all the way

Kaspersky's latest software is great, I've been testing them for several months. They're also the highest rated virus checker on virus.gr, if you want some independent validation. They have a corporate edition called Kaspersky Antivirus for Workstations that has a centralized control panel for managing all of the installations on the network. Talk to them about the fact that you are a not-for-profit organization and see if they'll give you a discount.

Damien

Just stay away from Symantec

Just awful, awful stuff. Wanna pay for support? Wanna have your workstation grind to a halt? Wanna have excesive licensing? Then Symantec is your answer!

I live and die by AVG and have been a loyal customer for 4 years on a 20 workstation environment. I have the network edition which runs from the server and also includes licenses for the workstations. Get it and your homework is done.

Panda

As another alternative, check out Panda Security. I've used their software on a couple of small networks and found it stable and effective. Their managment software easily allows remote installation as well as signature distribution.

http://www.pandasoftware.com/home/empresas/default [pandasoftware.com]

Not using Windows.

Really, there's one solution to the virus problem that will be far more comprehensive, effective, long-lived, and affordable than any anti-virus software ever will be: don't use Windows.

Linux has some limitations as a desktop platform, but it's still a vastly better choice than Windows ever has been. And considerably better than either one would be macosx; you get the accessibility and interface consistency of a good desktop environment, and the manageability, automation, and security of a good unix environment.

The only real argument for using Windows in any context is gaming. I assume that's not a motivator for your non-profit organization, so there's really no reason to set yourself up for failure by relying on so delicate and limited a tool as Windows.

Semi OT: Out of the box OSS email scanner gateway?

Are there any OSS distros that are specifically made for scanning email for viruses and flagging spam? Something akin to say Smoothwall or IpCop for firewalls.

At work we have a 30 seat license to SAV w/server based email scanning. I'd happily switch to something cheaper than SAV; however, once I price in the server based email scanning, there hasn't been much savings in the past. The email scanning is pretty much half the cost, but it is something that could be done well by an OSS disto. I am NOT willing to go dinking around with more than a handful of config files and packages to get this working, however. At some point it's just not worth the time.

CA's eTrust AV: I've heard it's good and cheap.

I've heard some good things about CA's eTrust antivirus (that it's a good virus catcher and has low resource usage), although I have not used it myself, so would be curious to see what folks here think.

Regarding costs, they claim on their page that: "Affordability. eTrust Antivirus gives you industrial-strength protection at a low price. We guarantee a lower price over the cost of renewing your current antivirus subscription, and we offer the lowest total cost of ownership of any antivirus software solution on the market today." Sounds pretty good to me.

Great response

First and foremost, thanks for all of the responses! Lots of information and (so far) no suggestions that I just [freaking] google it. My faith in slashdot has been revived.

Second: cripes, I've finally developed computer user grammer. It passes spell check but not basic grammar.

Third: some clarifications. The reason we keep AV running is that is because it's the right thing to do. Firefox, T-bird, and the firewall keep most of the bad stuff out. OpenOffice will cut down the risks even further, but we've still got a couple of points of entry to worry about. One is laptops. Even though no one has admin except those who need it (me and the other members of the tech. group), users can still install some simple programs. It's only a matter of time before somebody gets a network aware worm and brings the machine on site. Another point of entry is USB drives. We're pushing people towards those instead of floppies for the sake of relieability. In order to balence safety with usability, we add the layer of protection offered by AV.

In addition, WSUS isn't always on the ball. Occasionally you get a machine that quits grabbing updates, or one that never showed up in the first place. It's nice that I can keep those machines somewhat better protected with an additional program. On top of all that, we're an all volunteer group, so AV software gives us an addition layer of "false sense of security." I know that I can count on the firewall, the patch server, AND AV to buy me 48 to 72 hours of safety should the crap hit the fan like it did with Sasser or Blaster. Anti-virus, like any single layer of protection, isn't infallable, but it damn sure helps.

Linux: We're doing that in some areas, but the whole site isn't an option right now. Most of our users are technophobes, usually retirees. Actually, recovering technophobes now :). We concern ourselves with WW2 Aircraft, Radial engines, things of that nature. Technology didn't play a big role for the masses pre-fire. We wanted to change that, but never had a good starting point. When the rebuild started, we had to get the organization up and running in some capacity *YESTERDAY*. We had the proverbial chance to "strike while the iron was hot" and there wasn't time to hem and haw about the possiblity of mass migration. Right now, the machine that sees the most use by our least technical users (the Museum docents) is a Fedora Core box. The logic being that it would be the hardest for them to break. So far that has proven true. But our users that had experience had it using windows so, in order to aid in our evolution from "a couple machines here and there connected by coax (yes, coax. at the end of 2004.) with no real network connection" to "50-ish machines, ethernet, on a domain, network storage, off site backup, and an honest to god professional grade network that I would be proud to show off, and that moves this organization from 1993 to 2006 and beyond" we sacrificed and opted to stick with windows. Linux keeps coming up, but it's going to be a slow move.

Thanks again for the responses. I've gotten exactly what I wanted, solid reading material for a few days and some worthwhile points to ponder.

ca eTrust

I recommend CA eTrust antivirus, easy to manage, remote install on all workstations and upates and configuration is simple.

AntiVirus shootout

Has anyone reported on an antivirus performance shootout lately?