Dealing with Posture Problems?

WebfishUK asks: "Musculo-skeletal problems (such as back pain) affect most computer users sooner or later. Like others I spend many hours sat in front of a computer and wonder what the long-term health implications will be. I recently came across a website for an application called Posture Minder which apparently runs in the background and uses your web-cam to monitor how you are sitting and warn you about bad posture habits. It sounds like a neat idea (prevention being the best cure and all that), although the website doesn't have a download. Do Slashdot readers have other devices or any habits that they have adopted to mitigate the health risks of spending a lot of time in front of a computer?"

Much simpler...

I dumped my 18-year-old chair (one of the wheels is broken anyway) in favour of a pilates ball.

It's way more fun and forces you to keep your back straight.

And you can bounce on it while waiting for something slow to complete.

Good for sex, too; my gf says it feels like floating.

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It's way more fun and forces you to keep your back straight.

This is a myth. It is perfectly possible to sit on one of these balls with terrible posture. We have plenty of them at work, and I don't sit any straighter on them than I do on a regular chair.

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OK then... it certainly forces me to keep my back straight. Happy now?

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I used to use one of those pilates balls and I found that it didn't get my back straight anymore than if I had gotten a very good chair. My natural comfort position on that ball was to sit back a little further than on center top and then I would keep on s

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I used to use one of those pilates balls and I found that it didn't get my back straight anymore than if I had gotten a very good chair.

Oh, I'm sure a really good chair is much better.

But I can't afford a really good chair, but I can afford a pilates bal

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Your gf has sex with your pilates ball?

Kinky. But if you spend all your time posting on /., what else is she supposed to do?

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I wasn't going to interfere, but... what's a fleshlight?

Somehow, I start thinking about the fluorescent pigs or whatever it was that made it to /. a few months ago...

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Thou shallt not google 'fleshlight'.

Seriously, if you didn't figure it out already, you don't want to google it.

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I'm really, really, really sorry I asked.

One more reason to bemoan the good old days ...

... when people were "expected" to be able to bring a dog to the office. You could get up and walk the dog on a regular basis, thus ensuring both a break from the keyboard (and a reduced threat of RSI to the wrists) and a few minutes stretching your legs.

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Someone I know has a service dog and her employer is not allowing the dog at work, despite the fact that it is, as best I can tell, properly trained and unresponsive while wearing it's harness, sitting or lying down until it's needed or needs to go outsid

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Isn't there some sort of law where you are? I know that where I am, there is, but I feel uncomfortable pushing things the first few months.

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the ones who are unreasonable with helper dogs are brakeing the law and they can't fire you for trying to tell them about that.

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Of course, even the potential threat of termination and suspension of health benefits is more than enough to scare the living hell out of people. This stuff really does need to be spelled out in unambiguous terms in employee handbooks.

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If you are in the US that is illegal under the AWDA (amer disablities). If she has that dog to aid her with a disability she can get a court order to allow her or sue the hell out of the company.

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I'm not saying I support every random person bringing an animal into the work-place, but I don't think a service dog is an unreasonable exception, whether it is paired with a person who has a condition justifying its presence or a if it is being actively t

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ugh. Dogs at work. I am just not in favor of it, unless the dog is uncommonly well-trained.

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> Have you ever tried it?

Yes.

> [data]

But the problem is that I don't like dogs.

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But the problem is that I don't like dogs.

Its not about what you like and don't like ... its about people's ability and right to earn a living. I work a lot better with at least one dog present. It doesn't have to do anything except sleep at my feet or

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1. Employee A brings dog to work, improving their morale. (productivity +X)
2. Employee B doesn't like dogs, is distracted and annoyed. (productivity -Y)
3. ???
4. Profit?

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Its not just an "improvement in morale." So someone doesn't like dogs. What's he going to do - kick a handicapped person's service dog?

I don't think so.

The biggest culprit nowadays is keyboard trays and chairs that are too low.

People get a keyboard

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> I work a lot better with at least one dog present.

And I work a lot better with at most zero dogs present.

> It doesn't have to do anything except sleep at my feet or behind my chair.

If that's all it does, I got have no problems. But if any of my ma

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Naps at work: excellent idea - and already implemented at some places in order to improve productivity by as much as 40%.

http://www.time.com/time/insidebiz/printout/0,8816 ,1209960,00.html [time.com]

Napping has had the hardest time gaining traction, despite the

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the mere presence of a dog during a meeting led to fewer "pissing contests" between meeting participants, and more productive meetings, even if all the dog did was sit curled up in a corner ignoring everyone.

Ah, yes... but a true evil overlord strokes a c

sit forward

If I have been feeling back pain, I simply shift to sit on the front half of my chair. It forces me to sit more upright and lesss slouchy. It forces me to stop kicking my feet out at random angles and support some of my weight. It forces me to type with better arm positioning.

(I type this while sitting nearly on my back, knees up, with kid in my lap... so take my advice with a grain of salt.)/p)

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An easy way to do this is to cover up the rest of your chair with clothing you haven't put away yet. Works for me!

excercise helps

I've spent twenty years working in the control rooms of various particle accelerator facilities. I earn my money by sitting on my ass, using a keyboard, mouse and trackball and staring at a bank of monitors.

i find that almost any kind of upper body excercise helps a lot. I live next to a river, so i kayak regularly -- it really helps keep the musculo-skeletal parts all tweaked up. Juggling is good. I imagine climbing, basketball etc help too. Bicycling is almost useless (i ride a lot, it's just not good for upper back problems). Unicycling is way good. :-) Some of my collegues like to lift.

There's only so much posture / workstation ergonomics can do for you. Excercise is the real key. .max

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Ditto. My posture improved drastically when I was using a rowing machine. Back exercises and stomach exercises. The back ones help you keep pulling backward, and the stomach ones give you bulk in front so the back has less work to do.

Just do your workout

Who said he should do plenty of chest exercises?

Anyway, do your:

Deadlifts [exrx.net]
Squats [exrx.net]
Rows [exrx.net]

And add for example cleans [exrx.net], benchpress [exrx.net], legcurls [exrx.net] and military press [exrx.net] if you want to add more exercises. (Stomach exercises such as crunches or front squats probabl

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I couldn't agree more. Deadlifts and cleans also worked wonders for my carpal tunnel syndrome. Start light. It shouldn't hurt to lift.

You could try one of the PostCherPerfect chairs

that they used in the Simpsons [snpp.com]. Though you may lose all feeling in the left side of your body....

good question ; )

Gee, what a unique [slashdot.org], exciting [slashdot.org], fresh [slashdot.org], unheardof [slashdot.org], never-before-asked [slashdot.org] question!

In all seriousness though, this "Posture Minder" thing is nonsense. I'd be willing to bet it's nothing more then an overpriced motion sensor with a few health tips. My advice? Invest in a post-it note or two (or schedule a periodic alarm) and remember to get up and stretch every once in a while.

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I'd be willing to bet it's nothing more then an overpriced motion sensor with a few health tips.

Figuring out the posture of the person in front of the camera is an interesting computer vision problem, though. I wonder how they do it (if it actually isn't

As someone with osteoarthritis

I have to take special care of my upper back and neck since a car accident a few years ago. After talking to older people in my family I was told to get a good mattress [sealy.com] and pillow [amazon.com] and take MSM and glucosamine chondroitin [amazon.com] religiously.

Also when sitting a

Wouldn't put too much stock into this stuff...

Don't take that the wrong way - I am a firm believer in the idea that sitting in awkward, unnatural positions can cause some nasty problems, but honeslty I don't think a webcam can collect enough information to make an informed decision about whether or not you are sitting 'safely.'

If you want to prevent damage, take a rest break every 15 minutes or so to stretch out your arms, wrists, and back, don't type on a laptop keyboard, don't rest your hands on your keyboard, and above all, relax and vary your how you sit now and again. Stick a leg up on that desk. Pull the 'Thinker' pose. Lean back absurdly. Sit on your armrest. Perfect that slouch. Exercise may help, from what I've heard.

Not only will you surprise your coworkers, you'll find that you really don't like sitting in the same damned 'good posture' pose all the time. Sometimes, it's just bloody uncomfortable.

Disclaimer: have had RSI symptoms before. Got me a buckler-spring keyboard and an interesting chair to sit in and never looked back.

Spinal tap.

"Do Slashdot readers have other devices or any habits that they have adopted to mitigate the health risks of spending a lot of time in front of a computer?""

Wear a lightweight lift-belt. It's basically heavy-duty elastic with adjustable velcro on the front

Try this

try Workrave

http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft &words=workrave [sourceforge.net]

This is a pretty good program that pops up a reminder at set intervals, telling you to get up and stretch. If I'm not mistaken it provides stretching 'tips' as well. Forewarned that you need to take time to change the default settings once its installed. They are atrocious and you'll end up cursing me out for ever suggesting it if you don't. It'll also minimize full-screen games and what not.

It's not posture-related but I came across another tip. Stick your finger out (I prefer index, but if your having a bad day make your choice) about a foot, focus on your finger for 20 seconds, then look in the area behind your finger for 20 seconds, repeat a couple times -- or until you start to hear people laughing. It's supposed to relieve eye strain. Works for me.

Tai Chi and a good bed

Get a good bed and matress.
Practice Tai Chi in a good school that treats it as a martial art, not gymnastics, such as the ITCCA [itcca.org]. (It's a good idea to research the lineage of the teacher before committing.)

Get a small glass

A small glass and small plates force you to visit the kitchen more often.

My fav are the short glasses with a thick heavy base. It has a good weight even when empty.

Dawg!

I work at home, where I spend about half my time hunched over a computer, the rest at a workbench hunched over a sketch pad or over little tiny parts which I'm assembling. Both are bad for posture. The second best investment I made was in a decent adjustable chair for my worktable. I'd always had one at the computer, but for the other work I sat in a kitchen or dining room chair, or a folding chair. No more. That helped a lot with back and shoulder problems.

The very best investment was in an eight-year-old beagle, a recycled and rescued hunting dog. He absolutely requires a long walk and some activity each day. Aside from that, he needs to be let out from time to time, and he has no shyness at all about letting me know--forcing me to get my butt out of the chair to let him out into the yard.

If you can't take your dog along to your workplace (and I never could), you can at least make time for a long walk and a few Frisbee or tennis ball tosses before or after work. You may find that the dog is actually better behaved and more obedient after a walk, and for you it will pay off in terms of relaxation, un-kinking of abused muscle groups, and possibly even better sleep.

I could do all of this without a Beagle, but somehow I could never be bothered. Having the dog turns it into an obligation.

For Stiff White Guys

Here's a funny story.

I've had bad/lazy posture for most of my life. I'm tall, so slouching is something I'm good at. In addition, I sustained a minor injury in my teen years that aggravated the state of affairs and as a result, most all of my adult life included intermittent back pain (pinched sciatic nerve) along with the usual visits to doctors, chiropracters, massage "therapists" and nights of sleeping on a bare floor. The doctors offered addictive drugs; the chiropracters offered instant relief, weird bone cracking noises, and a dent in my pocket book; the massage therapists mostly just made me feel sore.

A few years back, my sister decided I should attend a Yoga class with her. I thought, "What the hell - why not?" and agreed. She picked me up in her car late one afternoon from a cafe where I'd sat drinking espresso and smoking cigarettes for a few hours with some friends. New sweats and T-shirts were in a bag waiting for me.

We get to the "studio" and walk through the building past various workout rooms where people are using free weights, performing aerobics and you name it, and walk up a circular staircase to a glass-walled room on the top floor. As we turn the corner, I look into the room and see twenty or so people in an identical pose but notice an amazingly attractive woman in her early twenties, at least 8 months pregnant, standing, like everyone else in the room, motionless on one leg with the other leg held vertically straight above her. My second thought was, "I really don't think this is for me." I was expecting a small group of new-age types, but the group was a nice cross-section of what you'd expect in any city. Ordinary guys included.

To make a long story short, I spent the 60 minutes engaged in one of the best workouts of my life! I can say that because I used to use free weights, run, and box, but for the record, I dislike exercising -- free weights satisfy one's vanity, and while other activities can be fun, I'd rather sit at in front of a computer and smoke cigarettes.) At any rate, the Yoga workout, by comparison, was head to toe. I came out sweating, relaxed as a baby, and my posture was normal, probably for the first time in my life. And it was fun.

I took a few more classes, and eventually stopped. After each class, the "effects" lingered for some time so, given that I walked, sat, slept and did everything else better than I ever had, and my sciatic problems magically just disappeared, it was easy to slack off and go back to my usual habits knowing that I could bend down and put my hands flat on the floor whereas in the past, I was never able to touch my toes. With one exception. I could practise my Yoga adequately from home with no fuss.

Yoga, for those unfamilar with it, is, at its essence, just streching. And breathing. Breathing is the most important part. Stretching while holding your breath is an excercise in futility and laughable. Heaving breathing (or heavy exhaling, to be more exact) without stretching *is* relaxing, but won't do much for your body. Combine carefully learned and structured postures and movement with heavy breathing and you get Yoga. It's almost a no-brainer, but the practice dates back further than you want to know, so yes, there is definitely more to it.

My advice? Skip the expensive furniture. Ergonomic chairs are nice, but the best chairs are also best at making you comfortable while in a ridiculous, cramped, or otherwise unhealthy posture. And horribly expensive. Skip the therapists, too, unless you have a real medical condition. You'll get more satifaction by hiring a hooker. Learn some basic stretches (read Yoga postures) and BREATHE. You can practise Yoga in an hour-long class, at home, or by simply taking a few minutes out of a hectic afternoon and doing some basic stretches. I'll guarantee it.

Check out your local phonebook for a Yoga class near you. In my area there's one called Stiff White Guys Yoga. Says it all, doesn't it? If nothing else, you'll find lots of ve

Kneeling Chairs

I'm surprised nobody has posted on these yet - while a lot of people have mentioned using yoga balls to make you sit up straight, there are also kneeling chairs (where you kneel, rather than sit) which force you to do the same.

They take a little getting u

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I often read kneeling on a normal chair, spread across the table, leaning on my elbows.

Both the kneeling chair and the Posturepod are bound to be very useful and comfortable.

speaking from experience...

.. of back pain related to sitting on my butt all day...

Here are a few things you can do to prevent such back pain. First, take up walking. At least 1 mile a day. This helps because the muscles in your legs attach to your back and help stretch it out.

Kieser Training

If you're lucky enough to live near a Kieser Training [kieser-training.com] centre then this is best thing for correcting bad posture. I had a debilitating weakening of the back and neck caused by computer stress and nothing, including physio, osteopathy, chiropractic or yoga d

My method

Do Slashdot readers have other devices or any habits that they have adopted to mitigate the health risks of spending a lot of time in front of a computer?"

Once every hour I take the elevator down, go outside, and suck down a cigarette or two. None of th

Sorry, but it's the gym.

I had back problems. I tried a bunch of different ergonomic stuff which didn't help. I finally went to a (free NSH) pyhsiotherapist. She identified my problems as stemming from a weak set of back muscles (rhomboids) and over-extended ligaments (or tendons-

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I meant trapezius, not rhomboids.

Get the monitor up to eye height

One of the simplest things to do is to raise your monitor up to eye height. Then get a chair with armrests, a decent keyboard, and arrange everything so that when your back is against the chair back, you can type comfortably with your arms supported.

The ultimate in Nagware?

Posture Minder? I can't believe anybody would pay for a gimmick that nags them like their mommy (and maybe nuns in grade school if they are Roman Catholic :-) did when they were little kids.

"Sit up straight!"..."Don't slouch!"..."Keep your elbows off the table!" Who needs that crap?

Then again, the kind of sick masochistic fitness freaks who buy into the "No pain, no gain." nonsense are notorious for spending big bucks on fancy home gyms, trendy weight loss products, and the health-food/weight-loss plan/diet of the week... I just think of Eule Gibbons, pitchman for Post Grape Nuts, who died of a heart attack after years of promoting his own wacky notion of a healthy diet.

I don't discount bad posture as being a root cause of many kinds of bone, joint, and muscle pain people experience as they grow older. On the other hand, I know for damn sure that I won't be writing great code if I'm being nagged by a program that doesn't like the way I sit/slouch at the keyboard. I might not be writing great code anyway, but at least I'll be comfortable while getting nothing useful done!

I came across this relevent .sig when researching this reply:

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the hope of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly procaiming ,"WOW WHAT A RIDE[!]"