What is the First Day in a University Lab Like?

the_kanzure writes "I'm going to start at a university lab a few days after my high school graduation ceremony. The lab is an eclectic blend of computer science, evolutionary engineering and molecular biology, essentially it's research/development and — best of all — the research is worth something to me and my other pet projects. What I do know of science, tech and research has been gleaned from the internet. The open access research repositories (arxiv, PLoS, etc.) have been a life-saver. But showing up to get real, hard experience is not the same as those late hours into the night spent debugging software. In person, you can't just call up a favorite bash script to open up a few hundred tabs to do some quick research on feasability and past research ... how is this supposed to work — does anybody really get stuff done this way? So I've been wondering how Slashdotters have handled transitioning from learning in front of a screen and a good net connection, to actually showing up and getting stuff done. What's a first day like in a lab? Stories? What's the etiquette? Informal? In programing circles, you can always submit a patch and alternatives, but does this hold here? Is the professor still generally considered the PHB and the lowly undergrads are his minions to carry out his bidding?"

Expect non-stop ass paddling

Expect non-stop ass paddling and beer bongs. Make sure to bring a swimsuit, as there are frequent wet t-shirt contests as well.

Your mileage may vary, however, as I work at an Ivy League institution.

Re:Expect non-stop ass paddling

Right on the money. Your experience in the lab will be a combination of what you make of it (25%) and the quality of your lab mates (75%). To be a successful volunteer/student, pretend that you are going to be a student chef. It takes many years of experience to be a really good scientist, and you aren't going to learn even a handful of the tricks that professionals use over your summer. All you need is to have good hands, get along with your lab partners, and have lots of patience. There is a lot of hurry up and wait sorts of things that can be frustrating for someone new to the game. Ask questions, be curious, but be humble. Be enthusiatic but back off with the questions if you sense you are annoying someone. Do not attempt to thrill us with your genius; learn from those who are competent, and once you get good, you can THEN innovate and develop your own techniques. But not before then. We've seen far too many students who think they are too smart to be bothered with mundane techniques, and never get a single experiment to work. Above all, have fun.

Re:Expect non-stop ass paddling

The first day will probably be boring. Showing you where the stuff is any safety concerns you may do a simple experiment that you already did in high school. Or just a Hello World type of Application. The thing about colleges and university that freshmen believe is what their high school teachers say that things will be so much more difficult then in high school They Scare you with things like 100 page readings and 6 hours a day of home work, which is true but you normally have classes spread out threw the day and you may have a class every week or 3 times a week. Not like the every day stuff in high school. It makes it possible to get that amount of work done for a class possible. And have more time to hang out and make friends then you ever did in high school. You could dedicate yourself near 100% academics but that would be a waist it is the only time in your life where you have the most freedom do what you want without major repercussions (To an extent).
On the other side you need to take you academic work seriously, this is really important the first few years, The most common mistake I see from smart people who fail out of College is that when they take the intro classes they seem really easy so they let them slide then they realize at the end of the year they failed because they didn't take the classes seriously.
When I started college in my CS degree I knew how to program in 6 or 7 languages at the time C being one of them. So taking C++ was a piece of cake. There were other students in the same boat I was in knew the same stuff. I took the intro classes seriously they took it as a joke and had to take the class over again. Because the intros classes teaches more then just the topic, but the style that you need to work on to complete college. If the stuff is easy use the extra time to take the extra step.
It is really a balance that you need to learn and figure out what your real mental schedule is. Mine was waking up at 5:00am and do the work and be done by 11am. Others pulled all nighters work from 11pm and get one at 5:00am. Others took the practical approach of doing a little bit each day, while some went to the other extreme did the entire work the day it was due to get it out of the queue.

Re:Expect non-stop ass paddling

"You could dedicate yourself near 100% academics but that would be a waist..."

On the other hand, going to a couple of classes every once in a while is recommended as a mind is a terrible thing to waist.

phdcomics

www.phdcomics.com

Two Words...

Real Genius,

It is on sale this week for like 5 bucks at fry's...

LIVE IT!

Broad question, but,

Keep an open mind as to how you'll be put to use. Lab work is not always glamorous.

Build cred by being competent and getting stuff done. Try to find someone competent who can get you up to speed and answer your questions. Ask lots of questions.

Once you have some cred, if you have ideas on how to do things better, bring them up in a respectful manner. Professors worth their salt value initiative.

Huge YMMVs. Any idea of what working in a lab will be like will probably last 30 seconds once you get there.

Be excited, smart, and ready to get things done, and good things will happen. If they don't, find another lab. Seriously.

Re:Broad question, but,

"Try to find someone competent who can get you up to speed and answer your questions. Ask lots of questions."

I agree emphatically. I learned more about organic chemistry just by working as a lab assistant than I ever did in my organic chemistry lectures, simply by virtue of assisting an extremely bright and competent grad student. After he realized that I was working in the lab because I liked chemistry rather than just for the paycheck, he took time to instruct me and fill in the knowledge gaps that I hadn't picked up in the lectures.

In short, ask questions, keep your ears open, and people more knowledgeable than you will most of the time be happy to educated you.

tea tea and more tea

uni labs are great, lots of tea and lots of not doing much. At least in physics labs in england that is.

First day

You're going to die.

My experiece

I haven't worked in university labs but I have worked in labs affiliated with them. I suspect there's no real difference. You're probably going to have to put up with safety training which usually is a joke that drains a couple hours of your life. Then if you're lucky you'll get a computer which IT might take its sweet time to set up for you. But in the mean time I highly recommend you go around and introduce yourself to the people there. They are the ones that will be teaching you the most and can be very helpful, just try not to be too shy. Get acquainted with the people, equipment and where the best places to eat near there are located.

Hm...

My first real "day" at a "lab" was a beamtime at a synchrotron. So thats hardly representative.

If you dont know _exactly_ what you want to know (and search for corresponding review papers), arxiv & co are worse than wikipedia for a basic knowledge background. You can very easily run into missconceptions, glorified pet theories, or just get lost in (for the big picture) unimportant details.

About professors: I cannot speak for the US, but over here, the professor has better thinks to do than playing tyrrant in the lab. In fact, many will hardly ever be there. They have to spend their time for teaching, and getting money to finance their (and that also usually means _your_) research.

Etiquette can be drastically different. I am in physics, and in one other chair of the institute i was back then, attentance at 8:00 was required, and people had to do their quarterly reports, ect.
While where i was, you just had to do your stuff (even if that means comming at 1pm and leaving late at the evening, ect). Tone was usually very informal. Just remember: For you its your Great First Day in the Lab. For the others, its just work/doing what is done every day. So you will just experience a normal work enviroment (well, a gernerally more relaxed one than in the industry, but still), with all the variations that this can include.

It's... interesting

First of all, realize you're starting out at the bottom of the food chain [phdcomics.com], which means you're probably going to get all of the grunt work that no one else wants to do.

The agenda of a research lab typically revolves around its director(s). Everyone will be working on their own individual projects (all of which have been detailed in the grant the faculty member was awarded 5 years previously), but you can always approach someone who is working on something similar to you for help, should you require it. Most will probably be glad to help you. The environment is less formal and more close-knit than that in the corporate world.

Most time spent in the lab is rather dull. The exception to this is the month of January, because that's when conference paper deadlines tend to occur. Think of it as a punctuated equilibrium. If you know that the professor wants to submit a paper on one of the projects you're working on, start preparing a paper early, before he even mentions the conference, because if he's anything like mine, he won't mention the conference until two days before the deadline.

Don't expect fair apportion of credit, adherence to some glowing paragon of scientific method, or even basic integrity to abound. Most beliefs that outsiders hold about academia are false. In general, I'd advise going into the process with a healthy dose of cynicism.

Oh, and everything in PhD Comics is true.

jfb2252

The first day will likely be spent in paperwork and safety briefings. One of the key things you should be told is "bio-safety level". Depending on location and age (over 18 or not) you may be restricted as to the level of organisms you can deal with. ----- Most important trait: Ask questions. Ask dumb questions. Ask questions even if you feel embarrassed not knowing the answer. You don't want to hurt yourself or a colleague by guessing. Nor does your employer want you to screw up an experiment by guessing, but that's secondary to safety.

Re:

Depending on location and age (over 18 or not) you may be restricted as to the level of organisms you can deal with.

For some strange reason, I first read this as revering to the level of orgasms you could deal with. The scary ting is, in context it mad

The most important thing to learn ....

is that communication is really important here - talk to people - listen more - remember that the most important communication happens in unstructured places - coffee breaks, having a beer, waiting for meetings to start etc etc - if you aren't hanging out with the other people you're working with you wont get the really creative group thing you're there to do working

Some Thoughts

Every lab has its own distinct culture, some of which comes from the discipline, some of which comes from the PI (Principal Investigator), and some of which comes from the other people in the lab. I've worked in several academic labs and the culture in each was startlingly different. I'm starting my own lab now, and I imagine it will turn out different from any in my prior experience!

That said, I'll offer some general advice.

1. Unfortunately, there will probably no one whose job it is to set you up. And there are a thousand and one little details that you need to learn. Where is the photocopier? What do I do when the printer runs out of toner? Where do I order this reagent? Where happens when the biohazard is full? And so on. _Politely_ ask the lowest person on the totem pole until you get an answer.

2. There usually is not an official hierarchy, but the unofficial hierarchy generally runs along the lines of PI -> Postdocs -> Graduate Students -> Research Assistants -> Undergraduates -> Others, modified by time of residence and area of expertise.

3. Everyone in academia likes to be asked to offer their opinion. Even if you think you know the answer, you will often learn something by asking a question or two.

4. Nobody likes it when the new guy is a know-it-all. Even if you do actually know it all, wait a little while before letting everyone else know :)

5. Have fun and relax. No one expects you to solve all their research problems in your first week.

6. Also, a lot of academic research time (especially in the type of lab it seems you're going to) is "in front of a screen and a good net connection," albeit with access to a lot more peer-reviewed literature than you've probably had access to in the past.

Re:Some Thoughts

2. There usually is not an official hierarchy, but the unofficial hierarchy generally runs along the lines of PI -> Postdocs -> Graduate Students -> Research Assistants -> Undergraduates -> Others, modified by time of residence and area of expertise.

Very much modified by time! God help you if you treat the 25-year Research Assistant who runs the lab as "lower" than some Johnny-come-lately postdoc. You will be a marked man.

Based on my experience...

...here's how it'll be:

There will be a set of formal rules, some of which are never followed and others the violation of which will get you fired instanter. You may or may not be told which are which - and certainly not told all of the distinctions. There will be an informal set of rules that you won't ever be told about but will have to discover on your own or face the consequences. These will include everything from standards of break-room refrigerator etiquette to which buttons you don't dare ever push (both literal and figurative buttons).

There will be several types of people there. There will be the ass kisser who is always sucking up to the bosses - and who may in fact be your boss. There will be the stickler for rules, and there will be those who don't pay any attention to the rules but still get a lot of work done. 20% of the people there will be highly competent and professional (for certain values of "professional"), and about 80% who are bumbling morons that make you wonder how they keep their jobs. There will be one guy who everybody looks to for guidance, decisions, and ideas, and who will almost definitely not have any formal authority. There will be some who you become fast friends with almost immediately, and some who will hate you on sight. There will be a guy who loves any opportunity to help you out, another who will help you out, but only as an excuse to rub your face in what you don't know, and one who you'd better not approach with any question that he thinks is beneath him (i.e. one he can't answer). One or more of these qualities may be present in the same individual.

There will be cliques and power structures that you will not be told about, yet you will be expected to find your place in them, possibly including taking sides. Choosing wrong could affect your entire career, but will at least substantially affect your success at that particular workplace. You will be expected to exercise more authority than you actually have, but no more than the unwritten rules allow you. You will have to discover that upper limit without crossing it by enough to have serious consequences.

You will be expected to put in extra effort, and perhaps extra time above what is supposedly expected, but will be looked down upon, and possibly resented, if you give too much. You will be expected to do what the boss actually wants, regardless of what he says he wants. You will be expected to do what the rest of your team wants, and expected to figure out what that is. The expectations of your boss and those of your co-workers will not always be compatible, but you are expected to meet both. You will be responsible for following policies which are counter to the purpose of the job, and which may even contradict each other. That will not be an allowable excuse for not getting the job done.

Your continued employment will be subject to seemingly arbitrary decisions of the boss and/or your co-workers. These decisions will not be based solely on your performance or compliance to policies and rules, but those will be the stated reason for your termination should that ever occur. Your promotions and salary will be subject to the same constraints.

The good news is that (most) everybody else already knows all this, accommodations will be made (within limits), and it's possible to successfully negotiate this and actually get real work done.

And, no, I've never worked in a lab.

laboratory experience

First of all, I think it's excellent that you're going to work in a laboratory early on, as an undergraduate (I am assuming that you're not just going to work in a university lab with a high school diploma, and that you plan to take courses at the school you're going to work at). If I had to do things over again, I certainly would have done more research at the undergraduate level -- you learn a heck of a lot more there than in the classroom alone, not to mention that you make a lot of important connections with faculty and staff. While you're there, make sure you take advantage of every opportunity to get to know people -- don't just show up for work, do what's asked of you, and leave at 5 pm every day. Ask questions, talk to people, take advantage of opportunities to present your research (poster presentations, oral talks at conferences) as much as you can. If you do this while an undergrad, graduate school will be a zillion times easier.

Take good notes, keep a good, organized laboratory notebook. Become very familiar with the instruments and/or software that you will be using. If you know how to use this well, and you become well known as an expert at a particular experiment/procedure, professors will love you for it, and you'll be a valuable resource to them later on (they may even ask you to come back a year or two later, if you're available, and pay you to do a particular experiment or train someone how to do what you've done).

Don't expect to work in one lab too long. You'll probably end up working in 1-3 different laboratories as an undergraduate, move on to a different one (or different school) for graduate school, maybe another lab for a PhD, and another one for a post-doc. That's the typical route -- expect it. There's not too much advancement in laboratory work without some type of graduate school, unless you want to end up maintaining equipment or working in IT or something. But if you start undergraduate research as a freshman in college, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a PhD in 7-8 years, easily.

A lot of your coworkers will not be American. A good number will be from India, and more from China. Don't let this be a reason you avoid them. The US has some of the top research universities in the world, and we usually get the cream of the crop in terms of foreign students and researchers (even some of the smaller, less well known American schools can be well known and well respected overseas). Their English may not be all that good, but most of them do know their shit, and can be quite helpful. And most of them do want to learn more English and become better at it, so talking with them will help them out as well as you.

Anyway, good luck to you. I'm not sure where you're going to be, but if you're going to be here [pitt.edu], I might run into you,... Cheers!

A Long Stand

My Uncle told me on his first day working in a lab (not in a university) he was asked to go to the store room for a "long stand". He went and asked for one, and the stores guy went to get it. 15 minutes later... you get the idea ;-)

Then his 'team' said his labcoat looked too small, so they told him to hold his arms out so they could measure it. A real long stand was quickly put through the sleeves so he couldn't move his arms.

If handling chemicals

or other effluents, always was your hands *before* as well as after using the bathroom.

HTH

Tiptoe around the PHBs

I've been a prof (biology), and therefore obviously also a grad student. Good profs are not PHBs. That's around 0.05% at a wild guess. Tread very carefully until you're *sure* what species of prof you have. You depend totally on him or her, and there's no real appeal against anything they do. (Start appealing, and you're a troublemaker and dead meat anyway.) It's a feudal system.

If you find out you can't stand your prof, change topics somewhat, make some plausible excuse, and go work with someone whom you've vetted more carefully. As an undergrad, you're probably not going to be seeing that much of the profs anyway. Post docs and grad students are going to be your main mentors. Post docs are wildly overworked, so never ever ever waste their time. You may find yourself squashed like a bug if you do. (Did I mention that it's not a democracy?)

As for learning, techniques, and all that straightforward, non-political stuff: that's the easy part. Just do whatever works.

Re:Eclectic?

With a vocabulary like that you should consider an English major.

Not if he "gleams" his knowledge instead of gleaning it. Your average English major not only knows that one, they can explain the etymology of it.

Re:

You... don't know many English majors, do you? Certainly not average, incoming freshmen English majors.