Home Grown or Boxed PCs? 30
Magorak asks: "Like myself, I know there's a lot of people out there who have built their own PC from the ground up. But, I also have friends who just went out and bought a boxed package that came with everything. I've always said that if you build your own PC, with exactly what you want, you'll have the best machine. But PC packages from Dell, Gateway and others are pretty promising so I'm not so sure anymore. I'm curious what Slashdotters think? " A while ago, I would have always suggested the custom solution, but this might not be so true anymore. Are there still places where the custom PC builder can still get a better deal than through Dell, Gateway and others of the sort?
It isn't all about price (Score:1)
I don't think it is any cheeper to build one yourself if you select all the same components. The big companies are buying at bulk prices. But you can do a pretty good job. And if you already have parts that you can reuse than you are saving money and getting the most out of previous purchases. You can also spread your purchases around to reduce the hit to your wallet without going into debt. Or you can say "I'll buy that part when it gets down to X dollars."
Plus I don't think the MBs in pre-builts are as overclocker friendly. If your into that sort of thing. It is also easier to make sure all your parts are Linux/BSD/(other alt OS)-friendly.
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testing the waters (Score:1)
- There are lots of idiots out there who want to sell you substandard components and switch your ordered part for something 'just as good'. Always send it back. I almost exclusively order parts from websites (the only exception is when the price listed at pricewatch.com doesn't match the website price). I usually order something simple first, just to test the site out, then order components. Sure, it takes longer to do things this way, but you save hundreds of dollars.
Also check out Reseller Rattings [resellerratings.com] and read posted review.--
Boxed has system warranty (Score:1)
You sent them your HD and got a new one in a few weeks? That's a joke. When I call Gateway with a failed HD, after a talking through some diagnostics (finding bad blocks basically), they ship a new drive (2-3 days delivery) and I ship the broken one back to them in the same box for free. Ditto for monitors, you do NOT want to pay shipping on those suckers.
It does bug me that system components can vary within the same model and details on ALL components are hard to come by. I think Dell's business models are better about system component consistency. Gateway has gotten better but it still happens.
An intermediate option is custom built machines from a local vendor. If you can find one with a good service record you can come close to having the best of both worlds.
My experience is with systems purchased for a University (but small quantities) so it may be a little different for a home consumer.
Power supply failures? (Score:1)
Maybe all these power supply failures are an aspect of this online communities use of hardware. Machines running 24/7, expansions to the max, older machines still kicking by running Linux instead of Windows, etc.
Re:a very recent, very personal example... (Score:1)
I can vouch for them too.
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My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
For reference: Dell i3700 is OK with Linux (Score:1)
Personal experience.... (Score:1)
My personal reccomendation is build if you have
A) the knowhow- this should be easy for Slashdotters but I'm surprised how many computer novices try to tinker with the hardware. Sure its a good way to learn, but man is it expensive.
B) The patience - it is a lot easier to just boot a preinstalled/tested system then spend a couple of hours wondering what is causing that nonstop beeping.
C) The desire to upgrade - as I said before, many systems (particularly the cheaper brands) use different hardware which makes upgrading more difficult. Example is Sound cards/modems. I had an old PackardBell Legend which had an integrated modem and sound card. Not only did it make a noise like a helicopter every time I was online, but to replace one was to replace both.
Complete Freedom and Knowledge w/Homebrew (Score:1)
I'd considered getting a 'custom' computer built by a company like Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc. I looked around and was impressed with prices, but not features. For example, their 'custom' computers freqently only allow for very rudimentary custimization. For example, I can get a Celeron 500 or a 466, but that's it. I can add RAM but for the life of me I couldn't get out that embedded video card. Also you have no idea what you're getting and where it was made. I've got a friend that ordered 2 machines from (IIRC) Dell, both purchased at the same time and configured with the EXACT same options. Upon inspecting them he noticed that they had nearly entirely different motherboards, a different video card (both just said something to the tune of "8MB embedded video"), and even then you've got no idea how long your M/B will last. Also very important to me is you don't know if you're dealing with a custom form-factor case which could inhibit future upgrades.
Currently I like the 'evolving-computer' where I upgrade parts in a given order: HD now, get a DVD drive next, replace the motherboard, processor, and RAM (unfortunately these frequenlty must come together), then video card, etc. I've found that this means I have a decent computer with a budget of x amount per month. It's never a 'absolute killer', true, but it's always fairly current. I never have to deal with not being able to run an application, nor do I have to deal with the headaches of an entirely new machine.
On the other hand some companies (VA Linux & Penguin Computing come to mind) SERIOUSLY care about the stuff inside the boxes past putting an 'intel inside' sticker on their case. They'll get a good motherboard from a specific company and will frequently tell you *WHAT MOTHERBOARD YOU'RE GETTING* on the computer's information sheet. That's just one example. However these machines frequently are not ALL THAT EASY on the wallet, but because I know it'll boot up every morning for the next 5 years, or run without stopping for the next 5 years, it's frequently worth the money.
The important thing to remember is that *YOUR TIME* is worth money, and sometimes spending $300 more building a custom computer is worth saving 8 hours on the phone with some customer service rep who doesn't actually know anything useful about your machine (what OEM parts were made by, etc.)
Re:Custom still the best for experts (Score:1)
That's interesting, as my former company was a big Micron shop, until I pointed out that all we really wanted was the fastest machine with 128M of memory, a NIC, and at least a 6G HD. All the machines matching those specs from the retailers were gamers machines with 3D graphics cards, stereo sound cards and speakers, Winmodems, monitors and no NICs. So I pointed out that I could take our old machines, replace the MBs and throw in another HD for under $800. Of course, the new MBs used DIMMs, so we had to get some of those, and they had AGP slots, so we got new video cards too, so it wound up costing a lot less under $800 than I thought, but we got some kickass boxes, and we ordered a spare of each component, so downtime would be however long it took me to drive from home to my boss' house!
True 'custom' design (Score:1)
Me gusta Dell (Score:1)
So, in August I ordered a Dimension T500, pretty much top of the line. P3 500, 256mb ram, 20 gig 7200 rpm Maxtor hard drive (yeah, I wouldn't have bought a Maxtor), 17" Trinitron monitor, and so on. Everything came to about $2400, and after shopping around, it would have cost me a few hundred dollars more to put together the same system.
Drawbacks? It, of course, came with a winmodem. I think I might hang that on my wall to ward off the evil winmodem spirits. Also, the Montego II soundcard isn't yet supported in Linux AFAIK, but I have a borrowed ES1371 that works fine.
Overall, I'm very happy with my system. The case design is nice, very easy to open (1 thumbscrew and 2 tabs that you press on for a side panel) and the inside is really clean - no tangled power or ribbon cables. It also has a neat little plastic vent over the CPU (nice, toasty P3) with a big fan (3" IIRC) that keeps it really cool. It happily runs 24/7 while I'm at school and so far I haven't had a single problem with it.
Stay away from proprietary hardware (Score:1)
Being accustomed to the interchangability and configurability of my machines, I was shocked upon seeing my friend's Compaq desktop (that I am borrowing to install linux on
The only non-proprietary hardware on it is the modem and the CD-ROM drive! The power supply and motherboard have 2 normal AT connectors, and a third non-standard connector for the APM. The power switch / power LEDs / hard disk LED are all on one assembly attatched to the motherboard with a custom connector. The floppy drive has a 'curvy' front to it that only fits in their case.
Worst of all, it only has 3 expansion slots!
The celeron has a big heat sink, and no fan. There is thick tape around the IDE cables so they wont melt on the CPU's heat sink!
The software is also a pain.
The BIOS has no configuration menus, it just displays a big Compaq logo and autodetects everything with no hope of changing 'advanced' things like PCI IRQs.
My task with this computer was to remove and reinstall Win98, shrink the partition, and install Debian. In order to install Win98 (which was painful to do, but necessary) I had to use the 'Compaq Quickrestore' CD, which without any configuration options, just simple 'are you sure' prompts, repartitioned and reformatted the hard drive, and installed windoze98. Now that it also has a linux partition, there is no way to reinstall win98 without wiping out the linux partition also.
Moral of the story is dont buy proprietary computers!
My experience has been with compaqs, but I'm sure the others are no better.
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If i had a
I think a combination can be good.. (Score:1)
So I looked at some of the big combined packages, thinks like PC + scanner + printer + CD writer, and they all looked far more expensive than I thought they should be.
In the end I bought a generic bare bones PC, and filled all its slots by buying the cd, the network card, the scanner, etc, seperately.
I think if you were to do something similar you'd have the best of both worlds.
BTW I always get really annoyed when seeing adverts for "complete" PC's when it doesn't say how many slots/ports are going to be free..
Steve
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http://GNUSoftware.com/ [gnusoftware.com] GNU Software for Windows Users.
Re:a very recent, very personal example... (Score:1)
Homegrown vs Prebuilds (Score:1)
a very recent, very personal example... (Score:1)
What I wanted was something along the lines of one of Alienware's highend machines ...all in the $3K to$4K+ range but I did not want to spend that kind of cash. I found that I could build a high end machine for about $1500 less than I could buy a comperable machine.
If you are in the market for an entry to mid-level machine, I think you are much better off buying off the shelf from a cost/feature standpoint, but on higher end toys, building saves a sigificant amount of money.
FWIW, I used MultiWave and found them to be *exceptional* on all fronts. Fast, great selection and best of all, significantly better prices than pcconnection/warehouse/zone.
Best of all, it was really quite fun building him. First one in well over a decade though I have no doubt it will not be the last...
rootrot
Depends... (Score:1)
Custom, to choose parts (Score:2)
I know that IDE (whatever they call it now) is almost as good today and a lot cheaper, but I still insist on pure SCSI parts. Cusomte built is the only way to get a desktop system with no IDE (Okay, the IDE connectors are on the board, but unconnected)
Video cards are the next reason. Some work better then others with xFree86. I'll use what works, thank you.
Third, quality. Granted most electronics last for a long time. Cooling fans don't, power supplies don't - unless I get them from www.pcpowerandcooling.com [pcpowerandcooling.com]. I know that others make good fans and power supplies, perhaps for less, but once burns by hot water you always blow on milk the from fridgerator.
I could save money buying a pre-built. I'd get poor componants that may or may not work with FreeBSD. I'd get fans that may or may not last. Or I would have to buy an overbuild server system, pay far more, and still not be sure of quality parts everywhere, or freeBSD compatibility.
Re:Stay away from proprietary hardware (Score:2)
I forgot about that bit of stupidity. Last saw it with a guy who needed FreeBSD for work (to work at home), but wanted win95 for everything else. We won't mention the backwardness of working for a pure BSD company and then using windows at home though.
Turned at there was no way to do it because at the time neither FreeBSD nor Linux suppored 32bit FAT, and that CD made the entire hard disk a 32 bit FAT partition. This was just after the release of OSR2, FIPS and partition magic couldn't help yet either. Eventially we talked him into sticking with the real OS full time, but he hated it.
I prefer custom-built in general, but... (Score:2)
Probably another year to 18 months from now, I'll be back at the point where it's easier just to get a whole new machine on repayments than to scrounge together the $$$ to do the upgrades I want, but until then I'm slowing improving my system with better and better components as I go.
Oh, of course, the other advantage to building from scratch is you don't have to pay for Windows with your system. But then, another advantage to buying a complete machine is you don't have the bullshit where you're having problems and the motherboard vendor blames it on the video card and the video card vendor blames it on the RAM and the RAM vendor blames it on the hard drive etc etc etc - if one company supplied it all then it's THEIR problem, not yours or anyone else's.
How much is your time worth? (Score:2)
A good vendor will have qualified, integrated and tested all of the parts in your system. They may also have access to parts that are difficult or impossible to find on the retail market.
At my workplace, I've built/upgraded all of my computers from parts. My current PC, a Pentium III, started out as an excessed IBM PC/AT. Mostly because the procurement system makes it easy to order parts and difficult to order complete computers. If you factor in the cost of my labor, it would have been cheaper to buy assembled systems with service contracts.
Build it or White Box It (Score:2)
Two years ago, on a name brand PC (forget the brand) she had a power supply go bad. Now, even though this was a 486/25 running DOS 6.22, she was entirely, 100% happy with the machine. (Her current machine is a K5 150, I think) So, just spring $30-$50 for a power supply, and go on our way. Nope. Had to get a custom power supply. Okay, just drop the motherboard and all into a new case. Nope. Custom shaped motherboard.
I will build my own 'puters (the first was to get what I wanted at a decent price, as well as cherry picking the parts. The past three or four have been built out of hand-me-down components.) At work, we buy only white-box computers. It supports a good local business, and I can repair them in VERY short order. If you had the office next to mine, me with a white box/home built and you with a Dell/Gateway/IBM/Micron/Whatever and we both have problem XYZ, who is going to get it faster? You call FedEx and wait three days. I go to the local shop, ask a favor (to be moved to the head of the queue) and get back in business no later than first thing the following morning.
YMMV, of course, but in my case....
Custom still the best for experts (Score:2)
They both have their benefits. (Score:2)
Sometimes, however, there are advantages to pre-assembled machines. Now, I consider there to be three main types of pre-built machines--
- proprietary parts (eg Dell Optiplex, but not a Dell Dimension)
- integrated motherboards (the dirt-cheap machines you find on PriceWatch [pricewatch.com])
- individual parts (individual sound/video cards, etc.)
Now, the third one is much like a custom machine, but you don't assemble it yourself. You choose from parts the company has in stock, they assemble it, maybe do soem burn-in tests, and send it to you. The advantage is that you pay shipping once, and the markup tends to be slightly less, as there's one company involved to buy from, not 6-10. (Explorer Micro [explorermicro.com] comes to mind as a company that does this....I've never bought from them before, they just tend to rank well on Pricewatch)Naturally, the flaw with this is that you might not be able to get that one specific part (video card, whatever) you had your heart set on, if the company you choose doesn't stock it, so it's not quite as good as the custom approach, but you might be able to save enough money to put in a crap item, and trade it out yourself.
For the middle class of pre-built machines, there's the ones with integrated parts on the motherboard. Mostly, they're the type that use shared memory for video, have built in wussy sound, etc. Probably not really what you want for a box permenantly, but they're good cheap-now/upgrade-later boxes. [you need something right now, and can't blow much cash on it, but you'll later have the cash to replace out the MB, video, sound, etc.]
And we're left with the 'proprietary parts' machines, which well, are great, so long as they never break. If something goes wrong, you might get screwed in having to fork out $40 for a FDD that fits in that size, etc. If the MB goes, you're basically screwed [although, most under this type have a longer warrenty than the others...as minimum a year... so with an extended warrenty, this might be a good type of machine for that aunt you have who's completely computer illiterate, but insists on calling you up for her 'I can't get on the Internet' questions]
So, in summary, look at what you need for this individual box -- is it a server, and you need 99.9999% uptime? Well, you'll want all custom parts for it, no question, to make sure you have an easy access case, reliable HD, ECC memory, a good NIC, etc. Is it just some lame workstation? Well, maybe you'll be willing to cut a few corners [integrated MB, smaller HD], so you can upgrade your main box. Is it for someone else? Warrenties/Tech support are good, so they're not calling you constantly to come over and fix it when they load some stupid screensaver someone sent them in e-mail.
And on an slightly related note, if anyone knows of a source for the Elan Vital M5 [elanvital.com.tw] case, (not the M5-R), mail me : oneiros$at$annoying.org [replacing $at$ as appropriate]
Re:Boxed has system warranty (Score:2)
The thing I worry about with a home-built machine is hardware manufacturer's blaming each other for problems.
Well, if you've gotten that response from hardware manufacturers, then you're buying from the wrong people. OTOH, sometimes there is a legitimate clash between two products. In this case, you're not really immune from the problem, though a good burn-in period will often detect such things in the testing labs. Not every OEM will take the time and effort to guarantee your video card won't flake out with your sound card installed. My dad got a high end HP Pavilion from work not so long ago. It uses off-the-shelf parts, has a nicely-designed case, and performs well under Windows 98. The down parts: I'm not sure the case is standard ATX, the video card is an ATI (not known for their performance or openness), the modem is useless (win modem), you don't even get a copy of any operating system on CD (just an "emergency restore CD"), the BIOS sucks big time (it's truly pathetic, even for a pre-built machine), the APM is totally unreliable and uncontrollable (sometimes it turns itself off in the middle of his typing a word), and he has absolutely no idea what brand motherboard, DIMMs, or other low-level hardware is in his computer. That makes it incredibly difficult to diagnose problems, incompatibilities, or buy off-the-shelf components compatible with his current setup (ie, buying the same brand of memory as the current setup, for maximum reliability).
My computer is an Asus P2B-D SMP pentium III motherboard, dual Pentium III 450 MHz processors, 256 MB of guaranteed PC100 compliant DIMMs with lifetime warranties, Matrox G400 AGP video card, Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! Value, dual DEC Tulip-based 10/100 Mbit NICs, Tekram U2W SCSI adapter, Quantum Atlas 10K RPM U2W SCSI hard drive, a very nice 19" monitor (ugh... cost me over $500 back over a year ago), a very nice Enlight case, and a couple impulse buys: a USB webcam, a Maxtor EIDE hard drive, some cheap speakers, some cheap OEM copy of Windows NT 4.0 I found at a computer show, a real cheap EIDE CDRW, and a free SCSI CDROM.
With the exception of the impulse buys, everything else in and around my computer was heavily researched before purchase. I decided early on that I was going to settle for nothing less than total satisfaction. First, I determined what sort of setup would get me the most bang for my buck: uniprocessor or SMP. The obvious answer was SMP, because I was going to use Linux and Intel was charging monstrous amounts of money for the P3 500 and P3 550. It was cheaper to buy two P3 450s than to buy a single P3 550! How's that for gouging? Oh well. I also removed the K6-III and upcoming Athlon from the running, because neither had good chipsets (no support for SMP or other necessary features). The sound card obviously had to be supported under Linux. That removed quite a few value-oriented models on the market, as well as any Aureal A3D product. My original solution was a $30 Ensoniq AudioPCI, but I've since upgraded to the Live!. The SCSI peripherals were a must. You can't get that from a pre-built system, unless you pay for a high-end server that costs over $5000. My system cost under $3000, though it would probably be a lot cheaper if you built it today (SCSI is cheaper, and the Pentium III 550 is looking attractive). Also, good chipsets for the Athlon will be out soon. You might have to wait until 2001 before a good, high-end SMP Athlon motherboard is available, though. I don't like buying revision 1.0 motherboards with no reputation, especially if they're not Asus.
My computer never locks up (unless I run a Microsoft OS, and it's still pretty damn stable even then), XF86 is pretty much optimized to hell for my setup, and I still have room to upgrade to even better performance, when 600 MHz Pentium IIIs become cheap. Plus, there's the expandability of SCSI: I can have up to 15 devices hooked up to my controller. Thanks to buying a full tower case, I can actually fit most of them in internal bays! Plus, by buying OEM hardware over the net, I saved quite a lot of money over buying some retail, boxed PC. I can't imagine paying an additional $50 per component, just to get lousy, bundled software that doesn't even run under Linux. Blech.
The drawbacks about doing it my way? Well, you need to spend lots of time determining what the optimum choice is. I spent a long time going through hardware review web sites, like Tom's Hardware and AnandTech. Also, you need to understand what the hardware review sites are talking about. If you don't know the difference between the BX chipset and the LX chipset, or even what a chipset is, then you're going to be totally lost. Building stuff yourself is terribly frustrating. I hate it, because you never get absolutely everything wired correctly the first time you power on the system. I'd rather be booting Linux than swearing at my computer, looking up what beep-beep-pause-beep means. The worst thing is that sometimes you end up with crap hardware, a 30 day warranty, and no returns after 10 days. Not to mention the 20% restocking fee. That's enough to scare off lots of people right there. They want a nice, long 5 year warranty with lots of middle men to whom you may talk. Personally, I hate middle men with a passion. I've never met one who could answer a simple question like, "What chipset does that video card use?" ("It's AGP!" "Okay, nevermind.")
In the end, I'd recommend that everyone but newbies build their own PC. For newbies, they should have someone else build their PC, like me. I'll do it for free. Just give me some pizza and Coca Cola while I'm working on it.
I had to totally rebuild my girlfriend's PC from scratch, because she had absolute crap (SiS video card, ALS300 sound card, overclocked Pentium CPU, PC Chips motherboard, etc). She had built most of the system herself, with the help of a friend. Unfortunately, neither of them was particularly knowledgable about computer hardware, so it ended up being quite unstable and slow. Overclocked, low-end hardware... ugghh... quite a recipe for disaster.
Boxed systems.. (Score:2)
However, you'll know you're buying good components when you homebrew.
Another good thing is that a lot of companies are putting ludicrous little stickers that invalidate your warrantee if you try to expand or just open up your computer. I'd rather find components (which can even be had cheaply via eBay, and other one-time places that equalise the prices vs. a bulk bought machine), and stick them together than have to worry about black-box purchased machines. There is a great satisfaction to this.
Here's an even better pro for homebrew: when something breaks, you don't lose your whole PC. I had a friend who bought an eMachine. It died (PS/mobo failure). They returned it for another. It died. (Twice now they've lost important data, data they can't get back, as well as put sensitive data into the hands of someone else).. Now they have an HP Pavilion, and I'm hoping it'll die so they'll break down and let me build them one
A reverse of the above situation:
When I had a problem with my HD (in my tres cool homebrew system), I called the tech number for the HD (not some clueless middle-man company, like Gateway). I talked to people who work with the hardware designers, and they were able to advise me on what to do quickly, and for free. A simple loop of LLF and zero filling later (wouldn't want sensitive data to leave with my busted HD), and it was off to the company, which replaced it at no cost within a few weeks.
Homebrew means answering to yourself, and dealing with hardware manufacturers. Pre-built means dealing with a (quite possibly clueless) middle man, who may or may not charge for support, and dealing with proprietary things (Compaq, HP, eMachines).. Not to mention the insanity of buying a computer with a modem, when you will never, ever use one (my friend has a cable modem, but both eMachines and the HP Pavilion have modems they'll never, ever use).
But then, that's just my opinion. YMMV, although you'll kick yourself when you eMachine dies >:-) And none of it applies to laptops, which are very, very proprietary (perhaps another ask Slashdot: where to get good laptops).
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Yet another vote for homegrown (Score:2)
1. Selection of individual components.
2. Price.
3. Avoiding clueless salesmen.
#1 is most important. I want exact control over my parts, not some substandard, off-the-shelf piece of crap system. Everyone should buy nothing but error-correcting RAM. No off-the-shelf system has ECC, ever. You can only even get the option of ECC when ordering a 'server' for 2 times the component price.
I just don't see how hardware companies justify their prices. If I went out and ordered all of the individual components for my LeSabre, it'd cost $90,000. Then I'd have to put it together, which would take months. If I order all the parts for a computer, it takes about an hour to put together and costs 50 to 70 percent of the 'boxed' system, even when taking shipping costs into consideration. What gives?
Once I ordered a system from Gateway for the lab I worked in. They shipped it with these substiute shitty components that almost immediately failed. Within 6 months, the keyboard shorted out, the NIC failed, the video card went on the fritz and the memory needed replaced. (Gateway, by the way when they decided that they were 'gateway.com' not 'gw2k.com', sued the owner of gateway for trademark infringement although he was in business first. Not the honorable purchasing of the domain name, just bullying tactics. What a bunch of assholes)
There are lots of idiots out there who want to sell you substandard components and switch your ordered part for something 'just as good'. Always send it back. I almost exclusively order parts from websites (the only exception is when the price listed at pricewatch.com doesn't match the website price). I usually order something simple first, just to test the site out, then order components. Sure, it takes longer to do things this way, but you save hundreds of dollars.
The chief reason that we are all voting for 'build your own' is that we, the UNIX users (mostly), don't need a pre-installed OS or applications. We can get most of what makes a system usable to us for free. Why should we pay for 'bundled' software that we wouldn't use in the first place. The cost is in the price of the system somewhere.
Remember that windoze systems are fragile, the software is more reliable when the drivers are installed in a certain order and it may take quite a while to figure out that order. Perchance that's why Dell charges an arm and a leg for a system. They had to figure out how to get it to work... That and they make you pay M$ tax.
In summary, it'll be a cold day in hell if I ever order another pre-built x86 system. My Macintoshes are another case entirely, when you can't buy parts, you can't build a system. My Alpha systems will probably be partially pre-built since it's cheaper that way. I guess there are no general rules except buy what you need for as cheap as you can. I don't see any reason to support companies that have never done anything good for me.
Beware of homebrew (Score:3)
1. Bought a whiz-bang 3D card with all the trimmings. Couldn't get it to work for two weeks until I found out that the Taiwanese motherboard I'm using (also top of the line) has a BIOS problem with my brand of video card. Waited another few weeks for them to come up with a fix - tech support from any Taiwanese mobo maker, is, IMHO, a complete joke, whether by phone or e-mail.
2. Lots of annoying problems with cooling. If there is on virtue to the non-acessible cases that any major PC maker uses, it's that they're custom engineered with great cooling support. My HP Pavilion has punchouts for a fan duct that blows straight onto the heatsink for the chip, and another fan to whisk all that air right out of the case. In addition, the fans both had little chips sitting next to them which would shut off if the temperature was low enough that they weren't needed. I haven't seen these anywhere. Having a virtually silent machine when you sleep next to it at night is great.
In contrast, cooling on a homebrew machine is, erm, interesting to say the least. With all the motherboard/case combinations out there, it's a given that in some cases it will be impossible to direct air to the CPU without a lot of drilling and taping fans all over. I prefer the elegant, well thought out design of a commerical computer to the homebrew option which is typical to stick 4 or 5 80cms in there and hope for the best.
3. Just the little things. It turns out that the gamma correction software installed by my video card kills my MX300 sound card. That was a fun reinstall, trying to figure out what went wrong. Good computer co's test and retest their base configuration to prevent things like this happening, even to the point of trying every possible order for installing software to determine what works best.
4. Warranty - having a separate warranty on every piece of hardware in your system is no fun. Imagine a crash two years out finding out that your CPU is covered but your hard drive ain't. Doh.
That being said, my next computer will be built by me, of course
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I prefer building (Score:3)
That gets quite painful when buying packages. The packages always have cut corners. I've watched the quality of Dells sink to new lows lately. At my last job I had a 2-year-old Dell that had a Sony CDROM in it. I would have *never* bought a Sony CDROM ever. This one wouldn't read CDs most of the time. I had to use another one over the network. I have also noticed that the WD hard drives in them get lots of bad sectors at a very early age. Actually, they were the only hard drives I have personally seen with bad sectors ever.
If you want to go with boxed solutions, make sure that you know exactly what's in it, and get a guarantee that you can trade components if they don't work for your OS of choice (believe it or not, I was able to get these guarantees in the kernel 1.2 days).