Borland C++ Can No Longer Be Used To Make Free Software? 224
Updated 05/17 7:33am by C: Michael Swindell from Inprise sent us the following clarification on the licensing issues involved:
"The Ask Slashdot article posted today asserted that the C++Builder 3 license somehow restricted distribution of source code. We do not have, and never have had, any license that would do such a thing. The reader mistook the application of the restriction on redistributables (such as the Borland RTL and VCL libraries which are distributed with source code) as a restriction on redistributing source written by a developer. We would never make such an unusable restriction. We are all developers over here. We would laugh anything like that out of the campus in a heartbeat. There is a passage further down in the license that explicitly explains that there is no restriction from distributing your own source code or even C++Builder IDE generated source code without restrictions:
- You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with a Borland source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Borland to be your code.
- I've attached a copy of the entire License agreement that came with C++Builder 3. We would really appreciate it if you were able to update the main article so that slashdot readers, customers, and developers don't get the wrong idea about our license. We have already been flooded with questions and complaints about this today and have spent a lot of time explaining the reader's mistake on the phone, in email, and in our newsgroups. (C: the attachment was corrupted in the email message but it should be up sometime today)
Thanks for clearing up all of the confusion, Michael. Here's a copy of the licence, reprinted by permission, for your perusal.
BORLAND C++ BUILDER
BORLAND NO-NONSENSE LICENSE STATEMENT AND LIMITED WARRANTY
IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY
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Re:Wrong. (Score:1)
Nabisco 'Wheat Snazzies' Contain Rat Poison? (Score:1)
from the now-this-can't-be-good dept.
Dunderhead writes "I just bought a box of Nabisco Wheat Snazzies and I'm not sure about some of the ingredients. Phosphoric Acid and Niacinamide? Are those some kind of rat poisons? I don't think I should eat Wheat Snazzies if they contain rat poison! Do you?"
Wow I agree that's really bad. Nabisco had better remove the rat poison from their products before a lot of people die...
Slow news day? (Score:1)
Re:What is Borland C++ Builder? (Score:1)
And it does a damn fine job of it. Seriously, it's worlds away from older Borland C++ tools. A project that took 6 months to plan and another 4 to code (and still came out wrong) on Borland C++ 5.1 was redesigned and implemented (and had EXTENSIVE functionality added) in less than 2 weeks using Builder.
I will do Win32 code in nothing else.
ObTopic: I just installed Builder 5 yesterday, and caught a similar piece of the lisence(sp?) out of the corner of my eye. At first, I thought "Oh, great..." but two things hit me. 1) My project is not open source. 2) The paragraphs that follow clarify that they don't want you to write a simple wrapper for their redistributables and sell it. Reasonable enough; their class library and other components are absolutly TOP NOTCH and are worth protecting with whatever legalese it takes.
--Threed
The Slashdot Sig Virus was foiled before it could spread.
Re:Not clear at all (Score:1)
Good point.
Not clear at all (Score:1)
"You may have an apple, in peeled form only".
Does this mean you are allowed to only have a peeled apple, or that you are allowed to have a peeled apple, in addition to other kinds of apples that are not mentioned in the agreement?
I think it is simply ambiguous wording and that no one should get upset until the wording has been clarified.
However, here is a pet theory: If Borland really is trying to limit the distribution of source, then it is probably because they feel that if you have the source and the binary of a program that was compiled with their compiler, then you can figure out some of the optimization algorithms that they might use. So they might want to try to prevent that by disallowing the distribution of the original source with binaries that their compiler has produced.
If this is the case, then it is completely lame.
But, it's all speculation on my part since I have no idea what they actually meant when they used the word "may" in their license
Sheesh... (Score:1)
Compiled programs and redistributables. Not the source code to which you own the copyright and can do with what you wish.
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
You may produce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you created
what does "You may have an apple." mean?
Re:This is... (Score:1)
>anyway.
What do you mean fool? If anything it only applies to users of Borland C++. People who use GCC aren't affected by this at all. If this does anything, it'll ensure that Borland C++ and other commerical compilers will never get much of a toehold in the linux userbase.
Re:What is Borland C++ Builder? (Score:1)
"You do not write C++ code with this."
Actually, you do write code with C++ Builder. C++ Builder is to C++ as Delphi is to ObjectPascal -- it's a slick GUI with drop-n-drag form building that let's you define interactions between controls. But it only creates the function wrappers, it's still up to you to go into the editor and write the code of what happens when button X is pushed.
--
Making iDirt 1.82 a safer place, one bug at a time.
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
Says nothing? How's that? By "generate", I assume that you mean the source code that you've produced out of your own creativity. But my reading of this is that "programs" comprises both source code and compiled binary, and their license only allows you to redistribute the binary portion of the program. Notice the following:
You may reproduce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you create using the Software
This shows that they consider a program to have more than one form, and they've limited redistribution rights to the binary portion of the program.
The point (Score:1)
I think its missinterpreted (Score:1)
Just for an example if I were to write a delphi app I can distribut all my sorce code and an exe, but not the sorce code to libraries that come with delphi.
Borland has one of the easiest to understand (that I know of) commercial licenses. I can install it on as many machines as I want as long as only one copy of it is running at a time. Which means I can use it at work and home and both copies are leagal as long as no one uses it at the office while I'm using it at home.
So unless something drastic has changed at borland, I am betting that restriction only applies to the borland included code. So if you write an app in C++ Builder you can distribute your code but someone would need a copy of C++ Builder to compile it properly to have all the libraries.
This is just my experience with borland and thier products, I could very well be wrong
Re:Uh (Score:1)
Actually, for the winblows version it has its own extenstions that add functionallity not in standard C++. All of them are prefixed with 2 underscore characters. All of these extensions are built into C++ builder libraries, which all but the Standard versions, have the sorce code. The license is probably restricting the release of the sorce of thier libraries only.
Magazine Freebies (Score:1)
A real license will allow you to distribute whatever to whoever you like, pretty much, without breaching the license agreement.
I won't get into any ethical issues between commercial compilers vs GCC, etc. (the question is more about free-as-in-beer licensing than commercial vs gnu/open source)
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
On the surface it's an interesting idea but a lot of problems arise out of that. First and foremost is that you have to come to grips with the fact that very few people are going to learn a completely new and arbitrary artificial language just to read legal code. This would radically grow the already large gap between the laypersons' understanding of the law and those in legal professions.
So then of course, you would inevitably have to provide natural language translations that would try to capture the intent of the original law but would neccesarily be a bit vague (if not, then why not just write the law in the original language.) This possibly leaves the law open to interpretation or legal defenses based around the fact that nobody but highly trained experts could understand what was legal or not.
In short, the only way to achieve this goal of total precision (of language or otherwise) in the law would be to have a completely pervasive totalitarian regime. And if you've gone that far, what's the point of doing it just for sake of legal precision? The power apparatus doesn't need written laws to perpetuate itself.
cheers, moi
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
Well, it's actually unclear. It could be parsed to mean "You may distribute in executable form (without source)", meanwhile not taking a position on whether or not you're distributing the source as well. mike
Re:Upgrade (Score:1)
The shareware version of Quake was a gift, and if no one bought the retial version, development would have stopped.
The way I read their license is that Borland is giving you license to redistribute their compiled-in libraries without any additional license fee or arrangement.
They can not exert any control over the source code you "feed" to their compiler, no more so than Microsoft can control your use of the text you enter into their MS-Word application.
This whole issue was built out of a quick-read of a license agreement and a "cup is half-empty" mindset... There is nothing in the snippet I read that causes me any concern...
Re:Only applies to auto-genned code (Score:1)
non-issue, IMHO...
Re:Autogen Code (Score:1)
Binary control remains with the author too! (Score:1)
Back to your workstations... (Score:1)
At least it doesn't state that you MUST release source code with binary distributions,
Std.. License Disclaimer (Score:1)
The usual intent of this clause is to make sure you don't bundle propritary libraries with your own source code.
In practice, you can send out your source code. After all, in any open source program you're going to be using open source libraries anyway, right?
Steven, Editor at Large, Sm@rt Partner
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
It could also be read to say that you can't release the generated assembly language, or libraries.
IMHO, it's a worrisome clause and should be repaired.
Not Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
just kidding.
In all seriousness, how can "only in executable form" be interpreted to mean oh yeah, and source too?
Not Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
He thinks it is unenforceable, but admits it's not his field, and, ultimately, you need enough money to stand-off with them through preliminary motions at a minimum should they choose to sue.
There it is.
Borland C++ Builder 3.0 vs 5.0 (Score:1)
I think their intention was to cover the auto-generated code, not all of the code. However, that's not how the quoted part of the license reads...
-Zak
Re:Wrong. (Score:1)
> right to distribute programs that you use THEIR
> compiling tools to create. It isn't saying you
> can ONLY distribute things in binary executable
> format, but that you are allowed to.
Um, it DOES say ONLY. Read it again:
"You may reproduce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you create using the Software"
-Zak
Many conserns byond this small issue (Score:1)
Notting that most people here on Slashdot do not develup under Windows and most Windows have allready got the develupment tools they need.
I however thought to take advantage of the situation and download this and start doing some cross platform codework.
Inprise is asking quite a bit of software develupers and to make things worse when I tried to download the software the link to stage one (join some software dev community thingy) didn't work.
To make matters worse there was a refrence to needing turbo asmbler. If I rember correctly Turbo C only compiles asm source code it then passes that on to tasm.exe a smallish version of turbo asmbler and I suspect B C++ dose the same.
But Tasm.exe isn't included with this "free" pacage forcing you to buy turbo asmbler. Might as well have bought the compiler to start with.
In my view there isn't very much free about this "builder".
GCC dosn't require you jump through hoops dosn't have a messed up liccens (ok the GPL is a little messed but not as bad as this) and dosn't require you buy something else to make it work.
I don't like the idea of develuping code under GCC for Windows. GCC isn't ideal for Windows develupment (mostly thanks to the way Windows works) the compiller almost needs to be interconnected with the operating system.
Thanks to Microsoft and Inprise Borland C++ has this advantage.
This means that if I want to do sereous open source develupment I really need Borland C++ or Microsoft C++... But I need a compleate compiler pacage.. not an half baked builder pacage....
I'm going to try and download and install it anyway. If I can find a sutable replacement for tasm then I'll be in busness....
Otherwise... I'll make use of Microsofts handy uninstall feature...
Or Linux handy fdisk.....
Possible reason for Borland's bleeding foot. (Score:1)
Re:Autogen Code (Score:1)
I personally think they should separate out the commercial library code (or whatever they want to protect) from the generated code specifically dealing with the original source file. What they are doing now is akin to telling people that it is illegal to distribute assembly code generated from a C file. That is ridiculous. If the assembly code contains lots of commercial boilerplate they don't want released, (think stuff from _start), they should make it a shared library. Or have an option that outputs just the parts directly coming from the original source file.
-Nathan Whitehead
Open eyes / read article (Score:1)
He bought a magazine that probably had a demo / limited version in it. The license in no way removes him any rights, but is most likely different from the license you'd get purchasing a shrink wrapped version of the product.
Meanwhile, if I was Borland, I would probably not want some script kiddie to just build something out of my libraries, without bringing in any new elements, and then publish MY source code with no credits / royalties paid to me. But then again, it's just my old capitalist side talking.
Third, they're giving the stuff away. They can slap the license they want on it, because my ultimate right is to choose some other environment to work in. No one is cramming the software down our throats. We have options.
Don't be a moron (Score:1)
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:1)
You may produce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you created...
In other words, you are allowed to do that. It doesn't say you aren't allowed to do otherwise...
Sorry.
Noom
what a difference position makes (Score:1)
"You may reproduce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you create..."
it does not say
"You may only reproduce and distribute programs which you create in executable form."
This is explicitly giving a right, not taking one away. You'd think a slew of people who (generally speaking) make their living off absolutely precise syntax might know how to diagram a sentence
Different Interpretation (Score:1)
Re:Not again... (Score:1)
Sorry, but you just can't claim "we need to know more" about that mess.
Although I'd agree about 'use gcc instead' though
~Tim
--
Question DO I OWN THE SOURCE (Score:1)
write?
Re:Sounds like... (Score:1)
Isn't this one of the Software packages which has tons of little shortcuts and simpler ways to make code sort of lego block stuff? I am not sure but it seems like it to me when I took a look at it. Perhaps they are protecting their SW-generated code.
what about the license for the $$$ version? (Score:1)
Glimpse of the future... (Score:1)
The question is how much of what I cause a computer to do FOR ME, actually belongs to me? I say all of it, but Borland seems to be pushing the envelope here, since, although, they may have some reasonable clame to their executable code, the code that they generate on my behalf is as dependent on my code, as it is theirs. But more importantly it is dependant on my intellectual property, and my design. Just as if I hired a consultant to generate the same code for me, I would own the code and not a consultant!
Borland is selling a product to serve MY needs in exchange for financial gain. They are trying to reduce the ammount one gets in the exchange. For a company like Borland, that is dying, they should be doing just the opposite.
If the compiler company can define all code built using their compiler as a derivitive work, can they hold your code hostage if you develop it using their platform?
Moreover, if this code is not derivitive, what does that do for the lesser GPL?
There are many questions here, I'm sure most of them, in one way or another will ultimatly serve to point out the gaping holes in current copyright and digital format laws.
John
Re:Load of Crap (Score:1)
I am going to see if it works with WordPerfect files stored as
Not at all (Score:1)
All Inprise libraries, source code, Redistributables and other files remain Inprise's exclusive property. Regardless of any modifications that you make, you may not distribute any files (particularly Inprise source code and other non-executable files) except those that Inprise has expressly designated as Redistributables. Nothing in the License Agreement permits you to derive the source code of files that Inprise has provided to you in executable form only, or to reproduce, modify, use, or distribute the source code of such files. You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code.
How exactly might the last two sentences be ambiguous? I guess they might be, if you have the IQ of a tin can.
Re:Proprietary Header Files? (Score:1)
Borland has always had very reasonable proprietary licenses. I do not expect that to change.
Hot Air (Score:2)
It's still fairly stupid, but such is the world of commercial software.
Proprietary Header Files? (Score:2)
OK, I'm grasping at straws here, but maybe that's what they're trying to protect.
Of course, it's not like it makes any real difference. If a tool (like a compiler) tries to restrict your freedoms, then use another compiler that does not. Like, say, gcc - which I'm told does C++ just fine.
Cut through the fog. (Score:2)
Borland C++ Builder (and Delphi for that matter) come with the source code for VCL, which is kind of an object wrapper environment that wraps around a whole slew of API's, including Win32, ODBC, etc. and provides a convenient interface to them. Using VCL, it is easy to do VB-style forms generation, databases, and whatever else. VCL is simply awesome.
Obviously, for your C++ Builder app to run, you have to have the VCL libraries installed as well -- just as, for VB, you have to have the VBx00.dll file installed. Borland gives you a license to redistribute VCL, royalty free. However, for obvious reasons, they have not to date wanted to distribute the source royalty free -- VCL is the biggest thing that makes C++ builder better than any other C++ compiler (the other big thing is the IDE, but it seems that VCL does most of the heavy lifting for the IDE).
Incidentally, Borland have tried to get MS to bundle the VCL libs with Windows, and Microsoft has refused (even though the MFC and I think the VB libs ARE bundeled).
The other possibile applicability is auto-generated source. In C++ Builder, there are many wizards to generate basic forms for you. Want a simple database form? Use the database wizard, point it to the database file, and 5 minutes later you have a database form that works.
Since the wizards work by cutting a snipping code that someone at Borland wrote, Borland might not want that code redistributed. However, I suspect that the intent of the language was not this, but VCL.
Should this language be corrected? Heck yes. But I don't think Borland means to stop open source software from using C++ Builder or VCL.
--
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
Re:What the REAL problem is here (Score:2)
--- Borland C++
--- C++ Compiler
--- Borland Turbo C++ Suite
--- Borland C++ Builder
The license cited is for Borland C++ Builder -- a completely different product from Borland C++. This betrays either gross neglect, or deliberate inflammatory rhetoric. Anyone, anywhere could screw thenselves up using the wrong product in almost any task. Therefore getting the name right is the most basic act that anyone can be expected to do.
Besides, as has been noted elsewhere, Borland C++ Builder *generates* code for you. You can write and distribute the binary, or any source code you write -- but not source code that Borland writes.
_____________
Uh (Score:2)
Sounds like marketing didn't understand the product, or laws at all.
Re:Uh (Score:2)
Brian
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
Please, somebody cook up a decent language and grammar for law that isn't filled with inconsistencies.
Of course, Pascal bigots say the same thing about C...
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
I have been saying exactly this for years, but all my lawyer "friends" claim that I'm just being a geek (insert hammer-stuff-looks-like-nail metaphor).
I have always felt a FORMAL, non-English language should be developed for law.
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
Lawyers DO already spend 90% of their time learning how the "legal" language works. Non-lawyers ALREADY are not qualified to read and interpret written laws, hence the ubiquitious "IANAL" disclaimers.
And as far as "natural language translations" go, we have this function already as well in the form of the court system. This is exactly what judges do when they publish findings.
Re:Upgrade (Score:2)
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
As stated above, Borland has no power over my creations.
Overshoot (Score:2)
Workaround? (Score:2)
For that matter, if BC++Builder doesn't include any junk in the file, it would be pretty hard to prove that the code was created with the software in question. Might not be legal, but Borland would have a really hard time proving that their software was used instead of.. say, 'notepad.exe'
A little aside: I doubt Borland did this on purpose. There would be no benefit to them to do so. Sounds like a little liscensing mishap that someone happened to pick up.
Re:Ask Borland (Score:2)
Re:Read the Rest of the License (Score:2)
I have not read either licence, but I'm sure that they will differ, as the Compiler is freely available, but (in most cases) you still need to purchase the Builder.
I agree, however, that reading more than one paragraph of a long licence is required before posting a story like this.
Re:Not clear at all (Score:2)
No good.
Not again... (Score:2)
Dave
Re:Upgrade (Score:2)
What are these printed manuals you speak of?
That sounds like a cool idea! Someone should try that!
Re:Wrong. (Score:2)
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
I've not used the free(beer) version, but any major development tool for windows comes with a bunch of proprietary libraries and objects.
Borland are quite nice, since they include the source for their own libraries. My guess is that a full reading of the contract (for those 100 lawyers) reveals the obvious:
a) You can distribute your own code
b) You can distribute the executable
c) You cannot (without explicit licence) redistribute the source of any additional libraries uses in yourt application.
So, if you use GPL-ed libraries, you are free to distribute the whole source. If you use any proprietary libraries, you can not distribute their source (without permission). That means that any other contributor to your application will need a separate licence for those libraries. Only fair.
Hellmouth.... (Score:2)
probable interpretation (Score:2)
Re:Only applies to auto-genned code (Score:2)
I seriously doubt this would stand up in court, though IANAL...
-Reeves
Sounds like... (Score:2)
Duh.
Re:Lawyering is a bit dangerous... (Score:2)
Do this:
There you go... :)
--
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:2)
It isn't saying that you are forbidden to distribute source code to your programs, it is saying you are allowed to distribute binaries without source.
It can be read either way, and as such is poorly worded, but since you own the code you wrote, it only makes sense one way.
Besides, isn't ambiguity in a license legally supposed to be interpreted in favor of the licensee?
Re:Possible reason for Borland's bleeding foot. (Score:2)
Personally, I find Delphi a bit better for RAD projects, as the language is, for me, a touch more intuitive, and less messy than C++. Either way, they're a couple of great RAD tools, and I hope this license doesn't mean what everyone thinks it does.
Re:Load of Crap (Score:2)
Just out of curiosity, what is a "commercial document" anyway? If I had Office Academic and I start writing a book, does that mean that I had to pony up to publish it legally?
I'm sorry, licenses that control content creation don't wash with me. I believe one of Microsoft's better-known legal abuses in the Chicago days involved a clause in the license for MFC that made it rather complicated for anyone to write something like a word processor or spreadsheet with MFC because it competed directly with MS. I can't possibly see how this can be considered legit -- it's impossible to enforce and it seems to be in rather bad faith. The funny thing is that MS did this in a market where there were plenty of VC++ alternatives out there...
/Brian
Lawyers vs Real People (Score:2)
I suspect the problem is a lawyer who has been told to rewrite it to allow a certain scenario and has managed to muck up an existing right. It should say something like "in executable form with or without any source code".
Crystal clear non issue (Score:2)
I first read about this in the Borland newsgroups, and thought what a bunch of idiots, even in the tidbit posted in the quote at the start is says,
"You may reproduce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you create using the Software without additional license or fees, subject to all of the conditions in this License Agreement."
Now this actually says you can give stuff away, and there are further conditions, which of course
were totally ignored by almost everybody commenting here not to mention the original poster. So to read on in the Borland C Builder 5.0 (not the freebie the full blown package),
"All Inprise libraries, source code, Redistributables and other files remain Inprise's exclusive property. Regardless of any modifications that you make, you may not distribute any files (particularly Inprise source code and other non-executable files) except those that Inprise has
expressly designated as Redistributables. Nothing in the License Agreement permits you to derive the source code of files that Inprise has provided to you in executable form only, or to reproduce, modify, use, or distribute the source code of such files. You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code."
So not only is the code you make yours and freely distributable but ALSO the machine generated code as well. The full Borland C Builder package comes with quite a but of source that is owned by Borland/Inprise and they obviously don't want that to be given out.
I think that in future it would be very helpful to the
"You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own."
How much clearer can it get.
Upgrade (Score:2)
Their code vs. Your code (Score:2)
It breaks down like this:
Link to VCL at compile time: OK.
Link to VCL at run time: OK.
Use VCL at design time: OBVIOUSLY OK (that's how RAD works).
Distribute unmodified VCL for free (beer) with your program: OK.
Change VCL and link at compile-time: OK.
---
Distribute VCL source: NO.
Distribute RTL source: NO.
Distribute modified VCL (change VCL and/or RTL, and link at run-time): NO.
That's what this license says. There are certain tricks and exceptions that are allowed or that they don't really care about, but this is basically the rules. I'd guess what they're saying here is even if you release something under the GPL, you can't distribute the binaries to their source.
---
Re:Sounds like... (Score:3)
Of course, I ain't a lawyer, so the above may be a a bunch of hooey. If you're that concerned, talk to someone who is.
Why doesn't someone ask Borland? (Score:3)
Only applies to auto-genned code (Score:3)
It still seems like a strange restriction, but it shouldn't affect the production of free software as long as you write it yourself.
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:3)
Yeah, you could, but not if you showed them the whole thing:
"You may reproduce and distribute, in executable form only, programs which you create using the Software"
"in executable form only" limits what you can reproduce and distribute, but then "programs which you create using the software" tells you what it's talking about, since "programs" is the direct object of the sentence, and "which you create using the software" is an adjective clause modifying programs (incidently, I have no legal training, but I did take English classes once a long time ago). You feed a compiler source code. It creates programs, and you can distribute them. It does mean that you can't distribute a disassembled copy of a program that you compiled with Borland C++, but it says nothing about the source YOU generate.
Wrong. (Score:3)
Why did someone post this as a story?
-S
Scott Ruttencutter
Re:Ask Borland (Score:3)
-Nathan Whitehead
If someone had bothered to read the whole thing... (Score:3)
Later in the license it says "The Software might include source code."
With regard to the people asking about automatically generated code: "Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code."
Duh.
Your source code is not a program (Score:3)
The key phrase is "programs which you create using the software". The source code to my software is not created by the compiler. I create the source code, not the compiler. This license only talks about the stuff that the compiler creates.
So the question becomes, what does the compiler (and related tools) create? A bunch of things:
I think the point they're trying to say is that of all the things that the compiler, etc (aka "Software") generates, the executable is the only thing you're allowed to distribute. You can't distribute, for instance, the listing files that show what kind of assembly code the compiler has generated.
"Builder" (Score:3)
Re:I don't get that impression.... (Score:3)
What the REAL problem is here (Score:4)
Thanks
Bruce
What is Borland C++ Builder? (Score:4)
C++Builder has code in itself to do X. You want to do X in your program. It adds the code for X. Kinda like using VB adding a component but instead of just getting this visual dodad you get actual code. They are maintaining that you can redistribute this is binary form
So you can compile something in C++Builder and distribute the source. However developing it entirely in C++Builder is a no-no. Because it would use Borland's code in the final output of your project. If you released your source free and clear at that point you would be distributing Borland's source code.
Remember this is not just a compiler.
-cpd
Misinterpretation explained (Score:4)
Re:Autogen Code (Score:4)
If I use Delphi or whatever to create an application, who does the AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED code belong to? The VCL belongs to Borland, I know this. But when I hit Ctrl-Shift-C, and Delphi spits out some useful declarations for me, is that source automatically mine (analagous to a paint program) or does Borland have to say something for it to be mine (analagous to copying code from a web page)? The code it is automatically generating is, after all, using _my_ copywrited work.
I'm assuming that it's just like using MS Paint.
THis has ALWAYS been on Borland software on mags. (Score:4)
UK PC magazines almost all carry CDROMs, and now DVD's, and full software turns up on these CDROMs all the time. Borland have been putting older versions of Delphi, C++Builder and other products on theses magazines for years. I have copies of Deplhi from version 1 to version 4.
This has always been a license restriction in the giveaway release of development software they put on the magazines. There is always an offer to obtain a full-development-rights license (and the rest of the retail box stuff) for a nominal sum (about 30 UKP).
This is not new. This is only restricted to coverdisk software. There is nothing unusual here. The software is being released for home use only. And gratis at that...
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
Yes, you can distribute your source. (Score:4)
Borland C++ Builder 5.0 has the same text in its license, but below, under the title "GENERAL TERMS THAT APPLY TO COMPILED PROGRAMS AND REDISTRIBUTABLES" it reads:
All Inprise libraries, source code, Redistributables and other files remain Inprise's exclusive property. Regardless of any modifications that you make, you may not distribute any files (particularly Inprise source code and other non-executable files) except those that Inprise has expressly designated as Redistributables. Nothing in the License Agreement permits you to derive the source code of files that Inprise has provided to you in executable form only, or to reproduce, modify, use, or distribute the source code of such files. You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code.
So, if you can distribute source code from a third-party vendor, in case the latter doesn't oppose, you can sure distribute your own. What you can't do is redistribute what Borland gave to you, other than the "redistributables" that appear on their list.
Slashdot Poetry, was Re:Wrong. (Score:4)
Re:Sounds like... (Score:4)
"All Inprise libraries, source code, Redistributables and other files remain Inprise's exclusive property. Regardless of any modifications that you make, you may not distribute any files (particularly Inprise source code and other non-executable files) except those that Inprise has expressly designated as Redistributables. Nothing in the License Agreement permits you to derive the source code of files that Inprise has provided to you in executable form only, or to reproduce, modify, use, or distribute the source code of such files. You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code. "
People read the license before jumping to conclusions! I think by the way I just commited copyright violation by posting the license agreement here. :)
Lawyering is a bit dangerous... (Score:5)
Thus, the notion that the license implies that you can't use Borland C++ to compile a GPLed program is just silly. And if someone posted the story on that basis, this makes them irresponsible idiots.
What is, on the other hand, less clear, is what transformations C++ Builder can do on your code, and whether THAT could lead to Borland having the right to restrict what you do.
People may remember back to the days of Bison before version 1.24. From the Conditions for Using Bison [gnu.org]:
In similar manner, if you use C++ Builder to generate code, as might be the case if you used the Drag'n'Drool interfacing to generate GUI code, it is plausible that Borland might have something to say about what you do with the code that was generated by their code generator.
A responsible person would, before submitting this story, try to verify some such information, rather than generating an irresponsible drive-by flaming of Borland. Of course, a responsible person would, before accepting the story for publishing, do some modicum of verification.
Few, of course, would accuse Slashdot of being a place for responsible people.
Incorrect interpretation (Score:5)
Ask Borland (Score:5)
Read the Rest of the License (Score:5)
I recently downloaded a copy of the Borland C++ Compiler v5.5. It's free as in beer. The license contains the paragraph quoted above but if you read the whole thing, you find the following paragraph:
All Inprise libraries, source code, Redistributables and other files remain Inprise's exclusive property. Regardless of any modifications that you make, you may not distribute any files (particularly Inprise source code and other non-executable files) except those that Inprise has expressly designated as Redistributables. Nothing in the License Agreement permits you to derive the source code of files that Inprise has provided to you in executable form only, or to reproduce, modify, use, or distribute the source code of such files. You are not, of course, restricted from distributing source code or byte code that is entirely your own. Source code which you generate with an Inprise source code generator, such as an Application Wizard, is considered by Inprise to be your code.
Talk about going off half cocked.
Re:Incorrect interpretation (Score:5)
IANAL, BUT, I have legal training and have worked in the legal field. I also deal with copyright law all the time in the publishing field.
So, here's how any lawyer *not being payed to disagree* would interpret this.
"You MAY distribute," is a statement giving the right to distribute. Without this clause it is possible you wouldn't have any rights to distribute executables at all.
This is a legal assignment of right.
"In executable form only",This is a RESTRICTIVE clause, unlike the the first clause. It explicitly states that ONLY executables may be distributed. This is a RESTRICTION imposed upon the prior assignment.
The comma, while to a casual reader means little and is largely arbitrary, means a great deal to a lawyer or a judge. The comma means that these are two SEPERATE clauses. One granting, one restricting the grant.
The sentence "You may distribute in executable form only" is a VERY different legal statement from "You may distribute, in executable form only." Issues like this are the very *reason* you have a lawyer read your contracts for you.
I could show this to 100 lawyers and get this same reading.
Now, this may not be what Borland *meant*, but it is what the license says.