Linux Mergers? 92
flupke asks: "In
this article at ZDNet
one can read about Linux consolidations. They provide several possible schemes such as: Caldera & SuSE, LinuxCare and O'Reilly, SCO and Turbo Linux, Compaq and MandrakeSoft. I don't think it's very accurate, but I'd like to have Slashdot readers on this subject because one day, it will happen ..."
Server Solutions (Score:1)
Now apply that to the mergers, you have Company A who wants to sell servers with linux. Get Debian worked out and after that point the cost to keep everything updated and security up to snuff is relativly low. Compaq would be much better off with such a company, or IBM or whoever else ZDNet wants to make up a story about.
More Linux laptops? (Score:2)
One Distro (Score:3)
One distro to rule them all, and in the darkenss bind them. [50megs.com]
Yes, he will buy them all. He will buy them all.
Resistance is futile. Innovation is inevitable. You will be embraced and extended.
Matthew Miller, [50megs.com]
One day.... (Score:1)
__
splits (Score:1)
This is just a rant.
-----
If my facts are wrong then tell me. I don't mind.
O'reilly? (Score:2)
O'reilly: the religious texts of agnostic geeks the wolrd over
Voodoo.. (Score:4)
But specifics aside, my personal theory says none of them will be primarily in the distribution business in a few years time, having pared back operations to support and VAR. Several well-informed people happen to think they will just die off, seeing all of them as an intermediary step to a more idealistic system.
But what happens when and if they do consolidate? Do we get the 'one-size-fits-all' distribution that is good for nothing? Do we get competing, mutually 'incompatible' distributions from the few remaining players? Or does everybody still play reasonably nicely as they have in the past?
Uhh... (Score:1)
Bet on Sony for laptop support (Score:1)
Why these combinations? (Score:1)
Bring out your dead! (Score:1)
Good thing Borland/Inprise cast off the lead weight of that yoke before being dragged down by them - we corporate developers, we lucky few, shall shout and pray that we were here on Corel's Death Day, to sally forth with our new IDE and crank out those apps to fight back the Wintel who would take them from us.
Slashdot should have a rule (Score:1)
~luge(I come to
Here's a Suggestion (Score:2)
All the divided Linux factions should combine to create one big divided Linux faction !!!
Re:Server Solutions (Score:1)
You could try to marry a company that developes a distribution based on debian (Corel, anyone?), though.
Maybe a new company? (Score:5)
Rob Milda, creator of the popular SlashDot.com [slashdot.net] web site, offering "News for Nerds" was quoted as saying "itll bee SWEET!
Speculation (Score:1)
Compaq and Mandrake? (Score:1)
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:1)
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Note that there is the big thing called package management: there is RPM, deb, and "anything else". It's unlikely that marriages over package management lines can be successfull, because any company that has invested in some distribution has developed process for building some type of package, and there are some very real differences between those.
Marriages of hardware vendor, VAR, distro builder, software company, etc. are a different thing, of course. Eg. CompaQ probably hasn't invested much into any one package management system or knowhow in one of those, so they're free to choose which distro builder to buy, and so on. Still note that IBM doesn't support and doesn't have any plans to support any distribution using deb packages. They can send You RPMs but not debs. And they have Lotus. So perhaps CompaQ will go for Corel to get a distro that is incompatible with anything IBM supports, and office software in the bundle. But then there would be Debian ties in the package, which would make some things harder.
Re:Voodoo.. (Score:2)
I think that as long as one distribution doesn't own too much of the market share, they'll have to play nice - it'll be in their best interest. If one gets popular, it'll stop being in their best interest to do so, and they'll stop. Bleak, huh?
I don't think a company that sells a Linux distribution (or the services for it) is really inherently more moral than anyone else just because it deals in Linux.
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Given the history of IBM in the PC market during the last two decades, why doesn't Red Hat swallow up the OS owning runt Microsoft division ? (MICROS~1 or MICROS~2 ?). It will serve to tie up a lot of loose ends, and give IBM some ersatz revenge into the bargain. they can make Windoze Open Source, and publish it in paper form so we can all burn a copy each.
We can always dream
Re:Compaq and Mandrake? (Score:1)
Playing with Fire... (Score:2)
As soon as we have hardware and system vendors who start telling the community the course x distro will take in regards to hardware support and development, we will have lost the true value of an Open Source operating system. Aa fas as I'm concerned, they get their value from the outstanding configurability not their cookie-cutter "compatibility" as Compaq, ect.. would like us to swallow.
Vendors (both distro and hardware) should work in support of each other but not for each other.
Where's the value in a linux distro? (Score:3)
1) the reputation in the community.
2) the qa work done in the distro.
3) the big names associated with the distro.
So if Compaq were to hire Alan Cox and several other big names, plus a solid QA team, then GPL parts of Tru64Unix and announce a coherent linux plan - they would have a better deal than if they bought mandrake or red hat.
Am I wrong here?
--Shoeboy
(former microserf)
Introduction to M&A (Score:3)
Here are four key points for mergers:
1 Size Matters
The hardest mergers are those of companies of equal size. These mergers require both companies to grow by 100%, and usually outgrow lots of internal processes. In addition, there's a lot of duplication of functionality within the new company that needs to be resolved (and that's painful).
How does this apply to Linux companies?
Some of the companies out there are very much home grown, and use home grown processes meant to get them through startup phase without large expenditures (read: they hacked something together). If two such companies merge, they are in trouble, and they will be absorbed by a third company later.
2 Physical locality matters
The article points this out. If you have two units that have their engineering staffs in the same location that's a lot easier to get them to work together and communicate. On the other hand, two former competitors separated by a continent could end up continuing their competition internally, especially if management doesn't lead (this is commonplace).
3 Nitch Functionality/Coverage
Again, the article mentioned this, and it's most easily understood- the smaller the duplication the easier the merger. The Red Hat/Cygnus deal looks good from this perpsective. This means, however, that two linux companies that have divergent source code bases are going to have a hard time. Watch for this as the deals come together.
4 Cultural Fit
On the surface, people who work in the OS world have some basic philosophies in common. But that's not enough by itself. Other issues include coding and reviewing style, customer support paths, patch philosophy, functionality vs. reliability (when do you release?). How many *nixes are out there because of disagreements amongst smart people?
Anyway, just some thoughts...
mergers (Score:1)
What's two times zero again?
Silly Names (Score:3)
I'd be too embarrassed to run anything called Turbo Hat.
Re:O'reilly? (Score:1)
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Merger Mish-mash... (Score:1)
It is nice to say that two companies have complementary talents. This says nothing about their holdings, culture, and philosophy. What's this big reliance on geographical location? For instance:
Caldera & SuSE: Severely different philosophies about how money should be earned, otherwise SuSE would be a bigger money-maker. Caldera would absorb SuSE, rip the pieces the wanted out of it and ditch the rest, and all of SuSE's core talent would probably walk.
LinuxCare & O'Reilly: If O'Reilly wanted to go into the Technical Service industry, why LinuxCare? That would be a waste of a grand majority of their knowledge base. Better to hit someone like Teletech with a partnership. This sounds like "pick a big-name TechServ company, hey, this one looks good..."
Hooking both SCO and Compaq up with a Linux company makes very little sense since both of them have gone out of their way to come up with something pointedly different from the standard Unix. I can't imagine them creating a Linux that is that similar to (or compatible with) other's offerings.
I can't claim to be an expert on this mostly because I'm just guessing. Then again, so is Mr. Leibovitch.
Mythological Beast
Re:Bring out your dead! (Score:1)
What about Trolltech? (Score:1)
One of the most interesting companies will be Trolltech. With the success of KDE and a probable success of a Qt-powered Kylix, commercial use of Qt will boom in a way that no one yet can imagine. This beeing good or bad, who knows, but it will be a fact.
three directions (Score:1)
Caldera will probbaly get bought out by a hardware company (i.e. compaq, ibm. or anyone else)
Between SuSE, Mandrake, Redhat, two will probably merge and try to do everything, while one will will become a dominate desktop distro.
yea, its speculation, yea im probably wronge, but then..... lets just wait and see.
what ever happpens, lets hope that theres always at least three distros to compete against each other.
One day (Score:1)
What do you mean, "one day"? Red Hat and Cygnus, arguably the epitomes of free software companies, have already merged. Why ask about something in the hypothetical when you have a particular example? Or is the submitter baiting for "evil capitalist" responses?
They should all merge (Score:1)
M&A activity in the United States and elsewhere is pitting competition against efficiency. Only a perfectly competitive market is perfectly efficient. And yet competition requires duplication which is inefficient. Which is more important, competition or efficiency?
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:1)
We use USB mice on it all the time (since USB is the only external interface on it). It recognises them no problem. Also, while there isn't any real APM yet, you can check the battery level with a Gnome panel app.
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
Re:Bring out your dead! (Score:1)
Re:Where's the value in a linux distro? (Score:1)
That depends on how much the big names are actually just puppets, I suppose. Touting a name like Alan Cox is cool until people find out they don't use his ideas - and listen to marketing babble instead - and just turn out something that sucks. id's reputation took a hit when they tried to puppetize (is that a word?) Carmack.
I think another key ingredient to your well-thought-out list might be attitude.
What does it bring us? (Score:3)
If we compare the "open source companies" we find a fundamental difference between two types of companies: The ones, like Red Hat, that were there at the very beginning of the Linux thing and the others, like Corel, which came later on. A look at Corel Linux is very interesting in this context: they try to supply a distribution for J. Random User. The interesting part is, that they do this with their old-style marketing tactics applied. They use the advantage of a technically excellent OS and hide it under their Windows-like modified KDE. What they are trying to do is establishing a brand name. They are selling a better Windows from Corel based on Linux. That's how the commercial software world works, but I don't think that works for Linux. The result is the thing with the stocks (I'm really not an expert with that stock things; I prefer stacks :-).
So what are these companies now trying to do? Well, as you might have already guessed, they once more try to apply their old-style marketing tactics. And that brings us to the topic. Consolidation is good for getting big, for making more money in less time, for branding and so on. But I don't think that consolidation is *that* good. Even in traditional, non-open-source economics. I think it fails in the long run.
The real question here is: What does it bring us hackers, geeks and users? Does this provide us with new Linux-preinstalled toys or is it just a big bloating up of open source companies? I think it won't really help them. It didn't work that well in closed source world, why should it work in a new world with "open source" stamped on a retail package of a commercial Linux distribution? Companies are trying to get big in open source world. One example is the RHCE of Red Hat. There are better ways of (unified) certification programmes. So, RHCE is nothing more than a business strategy, a method to establish a "brand name".
So, what is left if they all fail? Well, Linux will be there. Free software will be there. And we. Let them play their marketing games. Use their products if you just need one of them and don't care about all the other things. Just keep an open eye, so that they don't walk away with all our free software.
In the meantime, let's concentrate on real things, use Debian and all the other *real* free things and have a good time hacking. Companies come and go. What lasts is freedom. Raffael Stocker
Best merger possible.. (Score:2)
Re:Where's the value in a linux distro? (Score:2)
In general, it's easier and probably cheaper to use something that already exists as a launching pad than start from scratch. So if Compaq wanted to get into the Linux business big-time, they might find it easier to start by buying a distribution that already exists, or at least using it as a starting point.
Just for example (and this is straight off the top of my tiny little noggin, so don't flame me), let's say they made a deal with Corel to buy all the rights to Corel Linux in exchange for cash that Corel either desparately needs or could certainly use, depending on who you listen to. THEN they hire someone like Alan Cox, GPL whatever parts of Tru64Unix they need to and add them to their distribution, and release Compaq Linux. Suddenly they've hit the ground running with a 64-bit Linux that benefits eveyone involved. Compaq sells a pile of Linux servers and gets some credibility for the 64-bit stuff they've added to the mix. Corel gets a cash infusion and a platform for WordPerfect sales. Linux users get a 64-bit version of Our Favorite OS. And presumably Alan Cox-or-someone-like-him gets a good-paying job.
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Re:great thing (Score:1)
That could lead to a large class action law suit. Members of the wine development team would auctually read the source code which in all probality cause there brains to explode.
Re:Mandrake and Compaq? I sort of hope not ... (Score:1)
Any distro would be good, and with the market elovling I can definatly see multi distro and even FreeBSD laptops. People want choices, the current and emerging linux laptop market will definatly want choices.
Re:Why these combinations? (Score:1)
>probably not like this. Why, for instance, Caldera and SuSE? SuSE is
>way too cool for a bunch of ex-Novell losers like Caldera. I suspect
>RedHat and SuSE will end up ruling the world
As usual ZDNet got it wrong. There may well be mergers in the coming but not in the sense ZDNet is thinking in. Why for instance SuSE and Caldera merge? SuSE's market and focus is mainly in Europe. TurboLinux's Market is mostly Asia. Redhat's is mostly North America. This is is just an example of just how little ZDNet's so-called techwriters understand how things in the linux world tend to work.
This isnt a good thing... (Score:1)
Re:Server Solutions (Score:1)
what, don't you read the debian mailing lists? bruce perens has been locked in a bitter flame-fest with some of the other debian developers for months over his plans to merge with bill g and the microsoft krew. why do you think potato is running about 2 years late? coincidence? nooooo...don't be so naive. debian was just givng their mates at redmond a bit of breathing space to get Windows2000 and Office2000 out the door.
what do you think will be released next? debian woody, or the next major release of Windows? bruce knows which side his bread's buttered on. you can't trust those debian monopolists as far as you could toss a Win98 pre-loaded Dell Dimension.
DOJ must investigate debian and perens before its too late!!!!!
thankyou
GNU certification (Score:1)
The important thing is companies keep working to make Linux better as well as profit from it. If they are not supporting GNU software then they are just making money off other peoples work rather than contributing to it.
My money is going to the companies that further free software. That's the service I want and will continue to pay for regardless of mergers.
--
Cheers Andrew
what is the value of a distro (Score:1)
What does the user get in a certain distro that linux doesn't offer anyway. A magic bash script that will get his wonder soundcard beeping right out of the box ? Are there any relevant innovation beetween them ?
For how long does a linux user stay faithful to his choosen type of distribution, pkg, tgz,rpm or whatever he feels better ?
He will corrupt it anyaway sooner or later, by upgrading or evenn compiling source code, fixing the init scripts for the oerfect suite of their particular needs
I think the desirable linux user doesn't know much about what's the distro of his needs, but he feels free to modifying, mixing and overlapping different visions of what linux should be.
Don't get me wrong, a good distro is a kick in the ass to start the designing of our own system, responding to one's specific needs, but is not the end of the story. Linux installs are more permanent than windows, meaning that one can keep a linux install working for more than a year, while a windows install will such a load of problems that most of people will prefer reinstallin it.
By the that time a regular desktop linux system will be os transfigurated thar hardly will correspond to his origin, leaving the question of what system are you running unanswered, except an humble and true reply that it's linux, somekind of it anyway,
So will those entities merge with one another, creating mainstream liunxes ? Probably they will, but a new load of independent distros will follow, for reasons such as "I don't like this default window manager"
Debian and slackware will stay, there will be a distro focusing in the US, another one on Europe, and a lot of them targeting all the other countries adn languages. Guess what, they all be linux after all
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Re:Server Solutions (Score:1)
Re:What does it bring us? (Score:2)
Uh, how can they?
"...use Debian..."
Why did I have a suspicion that this would be the conclusion of the post?
Everywhere I go, from the FSF, to OSI to even Debian's own social contract with its developers, I keep hearing "it's not free beer and it's okay to sell free software". So why does the Debian crowd always piss on the commercial distros?
Re:Mandrake and Compaq? I sort of hope not ... (Score:1)
Corel would be better matched... (Score:2)
"Come to Compaq for your small business/legal/research/government needs! Get a super-fast Alpha server and Compaq PCs, all running the same OS, customized, configured and supported by a company you trust! It's your total small business/legal/research/government solution!"
By developing Corel Office (it's more than just Word Perfect) as a "total solution," Compaq would have the opportunity to compete with the IBM/Lotus setup. Think how easy the support would be at the IT end: everything looks shiny and bright (KDE, WordPerfect 9, Netscape 6), but underneath that, the IT people know it's really just Linux, GNU, XFree86, Mozilla and probably IMAP/SMTP.
We've all tested WP 8 for Linux (used to be a free download), you know it's no different than fscking Word or StarOffice, really. Tons of legal, government and research (like mine) offices still use the MS version, so what ties them to Windows once Compaq slaps their seal of approval on it? The other IT people where I work LOVE Compaq, and they'd jump at it.
-jpowers
Re:three directions (Score:1)
Re:One Distro (Score:3)
by D Clyde Williamson
Three Distros for hacker gurus,
with just a CLI.
Seven Distros for Linux geeks,
with tarballs to compile.
Nine Distros for Wannabes,
that self-install.
One Distro for the Dark Lord,
in his dark home.
In the land of Redmond where shadows lie.
One Distro to rule them all,
One Distro to find them,
One Distro to bring them all,
And in binaries only bind them.
In the land of Redmond where the shadows lie
Re:Number of Linux distros (Score:1)
Re:Voodoo.. (Score:3)
I also think it likely that these Linux distros will run into hard times, and when that happens, the real fighting will begin, and it will be interesting what tactics they try. I don't doubt the ideals of open-source will be ditched for the sake of survival.
Re:Silly Names (Score:1)
Could be a good thing.. Could be a bad thing... (Score:1)
Re:Voodoo.. (Score:1)
If this were to happen, I believe a rather interesting phenomenon would develop. After a distro is crowned "most popular", the company in charge of it will try to ride the wave as long as possible, slowing down projects and development in the hopes of juicing as much profit as possible. Then, as a result of that, another distro will pop up that has shown a significant amount of improvement and involvement than the other, and take the title. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Re:They should all merge (Score:1)
I need an example to clarify the practical distinction between effect and process. Don't they tend to blur a bit?
Re:Why these combinations? (Score:1)
According to the Linux counter [li.org] Slackware is used by 28% of the Linux users.
Slackware asks to register in one of start-up e-mails, but it is still a big market share.
Re:three directions (Score:1)
however, your point does raise another interesting point.
It would be dumb for RedHat and Mandrake to merge, it's the same distro anyway
If all the distros are open source, why merge? Why not just use their source code like corel did with debian or mandrake did with red hat?
Re:Where's the value in a linux distro? (Score:1)
But I guess there is the other extreme of debian who takes years for version upgrades...
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Re:Voodoo.. (Score:1)
Begs the question - who will be the Microsoft of Linux distros?
Meow!
Re:Silly Names (Score:1)
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:2)
Of course, it would be nice if the power managment support got finer grained. The screen on my Portege turns off after 2 minutes of keyboard inactivity and there's nothing I can do about it. (believe me, I've tried).
Re:O'reilly? (Score:1)
It's not exactly a merger, but I don't see any "SuSE Linux" books from ORA.
--keith
Re:Voodoo.. (Score:2)
The community gets better software, companies get exactly what they need, and everyone pays next to nothing.
It's not just the model that we hope for; it's the only sustainable model after 65% GPL market saturation, or so a trustworthy analyst has told me.
Re:What does it bring us? (Score:2)
Partly because many of the commercial distros are selling non-free software (by bundling non-free software on their CDs with GPL/BSD software) right alongside free software. The Qt incident a while back is one example.
--keith
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
Re:They should all merge (Score:2)
Compiciency, of course! Or effetition, maybe?
("It's a dessert and a floor wax!" ;-)
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
One matter that will have to be taken into consideration, however, would be MS's reaction to such a move. Since the bulk of Corel's products are Windows based, MS would see this as unwanted competition. Consider, for example a Compaq Windows PC bundled with Corel Office and Corel Draw, and perhaps coming with Netscape 6 - MS would stand to lose a lot from something like this, both in marketshare and revenue. Their reaction to this would probably come in the form of raising the prices of their OS and Office products when selling them to Compaq, and Compaq could lose more from this than gain.
If I were to choose a partner for Corel I would undoubtedly pick AOL. AOL is already at war with MS over internet service and content providing, not to mention their recent linux based internet appliance. By owning Corel's consumer oriented applications, including their linux ditro, AOL would control the desktop of its customers and provide a viable alternative to Microsoft on every level, both on Windows and linux. Furthermore, if and when ASP's start to dominate the scene, AOL would have a set of applications to offer to it's customers ready at hand.
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:1)
Proverbs 50
3 Thou shalt love free stuff for it is a gift from God. Do not flee from wisdom.
4 For the joy of the Lord is thy reward when thy hand reaches out for that which is free
5 Thou shalt not use dialogue as a verb. It is an abomination. Surely God will smite thee and seven generations forthwith.
Re:great thing (Score:2)
Hmm... wouldn't have thought moderation points should be awarded or subtracted based on who the poster is?
Re:great thing (Score:1)
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
Well, there's this, err, issue, that prevents Microsoft from openly doing so, and more to the point, Compaq from accepting it without crying 'foul!'. I belive it has something to do with the US judicial system...
Re:O'reilly? (Score:2)
matt
Re:Number of Linux distros (Score:1)
Yes, that would be an infringement of trademark, since I just copyrighted it. You can go for SmellyCat Linux, though. That is, if the authors of "Friends" haven't trademarked that as well...
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
Re:Number of Linux distros (Score:1)
Duh! You mean stories like "AMD introduces Moron processor" and "Overclocking causes rift in space-time" are not true?
Oi'm not dead yet - just a flesh wound (Score:1)
And they have some really cool IDE stuff for Linux which was posted on recently. I know no serious Linux Guru will use it, but those of us in the corporate mudpit are really looking forward to it.
It's either code in Windows or code in Linux - which would you prefer?
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:1)
Re:More Linux laptops? (Score:1)
Re:One Distro (Score:1)
How come that gave me chills when I read it?
...Never mind - I was eating a Three Musketeers and washing it down with a Coke when I read that. Gives me goose bumps every time.
--
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
-jpowers
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
-jpowers
Re:Corel would be better matched... (Score:1)
IBM (Score:1)
SCO may be a good target for IBM. IBM has already bought their other Monterey partnet (Sequent) and IBM has track record of buying their partners.
Alan Cox? Compaq? (Score:1)
--
j