24/7 Running PCs = Fire Risk? 38
Here's a short but sweet question left in my in-box by an anonymous birdie: "How safe is it to leave a PC running continuously in a domestic environment? Are there any precautions that one could/should take?" Now computers running 24/7 can put out quite a bit of heat, but I wasn't aware that such things made them fire hazards. Can someone clarify this issue?
The problem may be the computer in a fire. (Score:1)
Having went through a fire in the not too distant past, it becomes clear that a UPS can be down right dangerous to your systems in a fire.
Typically the first thing your fire department will do is cut power. If you don't have a UPS, you're computers at least have a chance of survival if they are anywhere near the fire.
However, with a UPS all it will take some water to kill the system for good. Especially if you leave the cases off of the system.
Re:What about water cooling? (Score:1)
Cray's used Flourinert(tm) from 3M to cool their systems. It has the same specific gravety as water, but it does not conduct electricity. You can immerse a computer in it. The case must be sealed, because Flourinert evaporates quickly.
Older mainframes from other vendors have been immersed in mineral oil.
Re:What about water cooling? (Score:1)
Try a flaming video card (Score:1)
Re:flammable ethernet cards (Score:2)
Yep. I misconnected power to a floppy drive a few weeks ago, and *pop*, same thing. Easy to do on some drives; the power connectors aren't keyed!
I had a friend who had a system catch fire. (Score:1)
Does anyone else have first hand experience with computer fires?
24/7 in a closet (Score:1)
Re:Not much risk, with a little foresight... (Score:1)
Re:Obvious (Score:2)
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Ancient Goth: Someone who overthrew the Roman Empire.
The risk of turning off machines... (Score:1)
It was a reasonablely tame machine. Pentium II 266 or thereabouts, some sort of fast Seagate SCSI drive (just one), and a PCI ethernet controller.
I left it in the soft-off state overnight. The next morning, my girlfriend woke me up, saying "Hey, your computer is on fire."
Seems that some motherboard/power supply/accessory combinations either lack sufficient cooling or draw too much power while suspended for it to be done safely.
So, the moral of this story is to turn *off* ATX computers, or leave them on all the time. This means hitting the rear-panel power switch, unplugging it, or otherwise physically removing all power from it. The front panel switch does *not* do this -- sure, the fans and disks all spin down, but the machine can (and does) still draw current in that zero-cooling enviroment.
I was lucky in that the power supply was the only component release its magic smoke, and not the entire house.
Burning Iron (Score:1)
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Email address is real.
Re:Keep it clean (Score:1)
What's wrong with your mouth? I've used mine to remove dust for years.
In reality, your computer's electronics (not fans, HDDs, CD-ROM or other mechanical devices) will not be fazed by water. You could throw your processor in a bucket of water, let it sit for two weeks, pull it out and let it dry and plug it back in. It'll work just fine. The key here is the drying part, without that you may let out the magic smoke.
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Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
Re:Obvious (Score:1)
Re:Keep it clean (Score:1)
Dayton, Ohio. Computerized car washes, they used Gateway(TM) boxen to run the timers for the bays, etc.
Flood happens. Flood is muddy. flood is EVIL. box is under 6 feet of silty water for a week or so.
i strip dead machine. Mobo=dead. drives=dead & rusted. RAM=thought to be working, POSTed fine. started generating random errors on scandisk and such, determined bad after it made the machine think a 4 gig WD hard disk was corrupted to all fuck (when i knew it wasn't) discarded ram(80 megs of it too!!)
CPU (first stepping P2 233)=Looked rather corroded... but worked absolutely PERFECTLY (after a new CPU fan) for about 6 months straight in a gaming machine.
the moral: Intel does make good shit.
Re:Obvious (Score:2)
Hate to respond to a troll...
Machinists burn iron all the time. Iron is hard to cut normally, but if you heat it to red hot and then supply a lot of oxygon, the iron burns away and you can make big cuts fast. They generally use a tool called "oxy/accetelene torch".
Re:Keep it clean (Score:2)
If you need to blow something off, make sure its not "dry air."
Re:Obvious (Score:1)
I've done a little blacksmithing, and Iron will burn quite nicely. That's one of the things that's hardest to learn when you're just starting out is how hot metal is, so you get it hot enough for it to be nice a malleable without it burning.
Re:What about water cooling? (Score:1)
Re:24/7 in a closet (Score:1)
Computer Cooling (Score:1)
Not much risk, with a little foresight... (Score:5)
Honestly, I can't see it being any more risky to leave a computer on unattended (which is what you're really asking) than leaving the TV set on.
The big thing here is common sense. A computer is an electrical device (indeed, one that consumes a fair amount of power). You should treat it as such. By far your greatest hazzard is a short-circuit that sparks, which can result in a fire.
All in all, common sense. One thing here: if you can possibly arrange it, put the computer in a room that doesn't have carpeting - and definately avoid rugs. It cuts down on dust and crap, and is slightly safer (linoleum, tile, concrete, or even a wood floor is much less likely to catch fire from random sparks).
Most of this advices goes for all computer-related equipment (hubs, telco stuff, UPSes...), though the low-power and general safety of small networking gear makes it possible to safely stow in closets (but do try not to stack clothes/inflammibles on it) - I usually recommend putting it in something similar to a metal milk crate.
-Erik
Re:Computer Cooling (Score:1)
Re:That's why there's UL (Score:1)
Underwriters Laboratory is most well known for testing that products are not likely to cause a fire. Insurance companies don't like fire, so they prefer items which have been UL tested. (Insurance companies are "underwriters" of your insurance)
If there's a fire with a non-UL device, your insurance company will be unhappy about the situation -- nearly as unhappy as you.
flammable ethernet cards (Score:1)
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Component failure && fire (Score:1)
at various times over the last 5 years.
A few years ago, I had just put a new (old) 8-bit soundblaster card into my 486. A few hours later, one of the capacitors on the card caught on fire. I would not have noticed if the case had been on.
Whether it would have spread to other components, or just burned itself out I do not know.
I never did check the card to see if it works, but a friend of mine has an SB16 that he said caught on fire once, and still works.
OpenVerse Visual Chat: http://openverse.org [openverse.org]
You Can Run a Computer 24/7 with Proper Cooling (Score:3)
What kind of cooling am I talking about? Glad you asked.
Why, I'm talking about Gatorade(r) Thirst Quencher(tm). Only Gatorade(r) Thirst Quencher(tm) cools your computer "to the core," eliminating that "deep down" thirst and heat that may plague performance and cause safety problems.
Simply take a large container of Gatorade(r), such as our 96 oz. X-Treme Performance(tm) bottle with patented Acti-Grip(tm) technology, and pour it generously over your computer, making sure to concentrate on important components such as your processor which may have a "thirst for performance." Pick any of 20 refreshing flavors, including Tropical Burst, Gatorade Frost(tm) Riptide Rush, and new Gatorade Fierce(tm) Melon. Watch as your components are cooled, and give off "sparks and steam of enjoyment" as they become re-newed by our scientifically designed 6% mixture of highly energizing carbohydrates and minerals. Repeat this process every two to three days, and watch as you never have to worry about overheating components or safety issues.
Remember, this type of X-Treme Performance(tm) is only available through Gatorade(r) and its subsidiaries.
Gatorade: Is it in you?
Gatorade(r) is a division of The Quaker Oats Company(r). Gatorade(r) and the lightning bolt are registered trademarks of Stokely-Van Camp, Inc. Is It In You?(tm) is a trademark of Stokely - Van Camp, Inc.
What about water cooling? (Score:1)
Re:flammable ethernet cards (Score:1)
Simply putting too much trafic on an ethernet card with very poor cooling will blow the chip, in fact today its so hot out that we had one blow in a server. It didnt catch on fire but is seriously malfuntining, we replaced it and presto. The cards most often have a little black mark in the center of the chip looking like someone gave it a ciggarete burn. The smell scares the crap out of you because you think your new hot rod is catching on fire
That's why there's UL (Score:2)
To give you a sense of what this really means:
I was at a company that was testing some prototype boards, and the engineer left the test running over the weekend. Unfortunately the proto board was bad, causing a short and caused the board to glow red hot. Did I mention this went on all weekend? The engineer showed up on monday and all that was wrong was the board still had power going to it and a burning smell. Had the PCB not been 94V0, it would have burned the building down.
Keep it clean (Score:1)
Every 6 months to a year you should probably strip it down to parts and dust everything. I'd left mine undusted for far too long and after dusting my temp dropped 20 degrees. I think other than common sense dust will be the biggest problem with your machine.
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Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
24/7 PC's fire risk? (Score:1)
Re:Keep it clean (Score:1)
Be weary of external cases (Score:1)
`Kevin
24x7 is no problem at home (Score:2)
Re:Try a flaming video card (Score:1)
I know someone who's video card "melted." (...so I've been told by a friend who worked on it.)
I also know someone who's CPU... "made an acrid smell, and bubbled on the underside." Allegedly it was Intel, but we can't confirm whether it was pirated.
Both of these just happened spontaneously after working normally for a long time.
Personally, in my cheapest box, I used to have a Cyrix 6x86, and while it didn't burn or anything, it... decayed, performance-wise. It started making dozens of noticable calculation errors... while running scandisk!
To get back on topic, I'd say you're safe as long as you use good quality parts, and make sure you've got enough cooling. Still, if you have some kind of monster PC, make sure your house wiring is good enough too.
Re:Keep it clean (Score:1)
Especially if it's moving (in either direction) through a plastic tube. That's why you have to run a ground wire inside sawdust collector systems of any length. I still recommend vacuuming, but TURN OFF AND UNPLUG the equipment to be vacuumed first, and hold the vacuum wand near the business end with one hand while holding the grounded metal frame with the other hand BUT ONLY after discharging any major capacitors, especially inside television sets, monitors, and anything with a switching power supply AFTER you UNPLUG it. Of course if you already now how to do this you probably already know the reason why and vice versa, so if you don't know why, you don't know how, so find someone who does to show you how! Don't get yourself electrocuted while trying to prevent a fire.
Should be safe with quality components (Score:1)
I am an Electrical Engineer...which does not mean that I know what I am talking about, although in this case I actually do.
I would strongly suggest the use of quality components in the PC, in particular the power supply. Another user suggested using a UL-listed power supply. This is certainly true, but there is more you should look for than just a UL sticker. Buy one of the more-expensive PC supplies...and buy a supply rated for significantly more current than you need...don't "cut it close". As a sysadmin, I have had many cheap PC power supplies fry their fans or blow capacitors. In one case a supply melted its fan and literally burst into flame.
When in doubt, buy a supply made in the US or Europe (or overseas for a US/European company). With a company name and phone number. While this is no guarantee of quality, these companies are liable for a poorly made product and less-likely to leave out a $0.39 thermal fuse. Better power supplies will also have overcurrent protection, and shut themselves off when things go past the breaking point. Cheap supplies keep humming away until they or your motherboard starts to smoke.
There are still many quality PC power supplies made in Asia, but the components in a particular model tend to vary from unit to unit, so it pays to be careful. I have also seen a UL sticker on supplies that were clearly manufactured with no quality control (bits of stripped wire rolling around in the enclosure, parts not fully soldered on boards) so I suspect the UL marking on some of the imported supplies to be counterfit. And never, ever buy a supply that cannot even manage to get a UL mark. If there is a fire, your insurance may be invalidated.
Still, a PC is very unlikely to catch fire. I have four PCs (one with a cheap power supply) running 24/7 at home with no worries. But poor supplies run a much higher risk of frying components. And like another poster said, Vacuum that PC! Keep dust to a minimum for a long product life
Re:What about water cooling? (Score:1)
Mind you, I don't use either, so I can't guarantee any performance from them. I've heard peltiers use a lot of power themselves.