Will Linux Ever be Ported to the Palm? 20
Derek Cunningham asks: "I've had a Palm Vx for a couple months now. All of the nerds I know continually ask me 'are you running Linux on that yet?' and all I can say is 'no'. I've continually read over the uCLinux page, as well as the OSK page... but cannot find details on exactly how to get Linux on my Palm. It seems that uCLinux has a downloadable version, but no docs, and OSK just doesn't have a whole lot of information other than some graphics and screenshots, and even those are almost a year old (same age as the slashdot story). The only thing they seem to document is getting their images to work with XCoPilot."
did you check into TRG (Score:1)
Argh, not again... (Score:4)
Ok, that's a bit harsh. Certainly it would be a neat hack, and I like a neat hack as much as the next being. But is linux right for the palm?
Say you install linux on your palm, and want to use, for example, bash. Unless you're amazingly good at graffiti, it will be a lot slower than on your desktop. You could, conceivably, use a keyboard (all hail the PPK!), first writing a driver for it, but you can't do that on a regular basis (as in jotting down a number on the subway). Yah, you could write a GUI for it, or adapt X, or soemthing, but....why? Does linux have to run on everything and its duck?
I'm not a linux expert, but it seems to me that PalmOS is on the right track with they're handheld OS: simple, streamlined, totally GUI oriented.
Just some things to think about. And I still WinCE when I think about Microsoft's attempt to squeeze their desktop OS onto a handheld....
-J
Palm is a different paradigm (Score:1)
Oops, that was me... (Score:1)
-J
palm should do it for us (Score:2)
first let me say that i think today's linux is a terrible operating system for handheld computers.
</asbestos>
like another poster said, what the hell would you do with it? i type pretty darn fast, and i love the power that communicating with the computer verbally gives me. but the you just can't do that kind of thing within the palmtop form factor. at least not until we see some real software for that arena.
the palm os (as great as the interface is) is a tragedy from an operating system design point of view. no protected memory, no real multitasking, nothing you would ever tolerate on a desktop system.
rumor has it that the nextgen palms will run on be 200 to 400mHz ARM chips. if i were on the palm (handspring) board of directors, i'd be pushing to develop the next palm interface on linux.
imaging handspring-developed hardware, powered by arm, held together with linux, supporting a palm interface. stunning.
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Re:Argh, not again... (Score:1)
Why Should I put a bigger engine in my car when the speed limit isn't more than 70mph?
Why do I need an SUV, when a station wagon would suffice?
Why would you put an expensive sound system in your car, when it would clearly sound better in a home theater?
The first inventor of an Assembler got into trouble for waisting computer processing time by converting assembly language into machine code instead of having a programmer do it. His boss probably asked the question "Why should the computer generate it's own machine code?"
Things change. Portable devices will become both powerful and mainstream. Voice recognition will do away with the need slowly scribble on your palm.
Personally, I hope that we get a version of Linux working on the Palm soon, before WindowsCE becomes the only mainstream interface. In the mean time, getting something such as Linux up and running on different devices is fun. I don't get out much, but soldering and rewiring my Iopener was fun. I'm looking forward to declawing my :cue:cat:, even though I will never use it for anything practical.
Station Wagons (Score:1)
This is one of those "Unintended consequences" deals. Back when the US government implemented the CAFE laws (Corporate average fuel economy) they exempted trucks. What we call SUVs today were classed as "Light trucks".
So, in order to meet in increasingly strict CAFE laws, the car companies had to downsize their cars. The first thing that (Mostly) went away was the big huge car. (Note, they HAVE come back - cars like the big MB and the big Lexus etc are as big as anything) The next thing that went away was the full sized wagon. There were a few hold outs till about 1 year ago (The Ford Crown Victoria. Note: The Crown Victoria/Lincoln Town car are now ONLY listed in Ford's "Fleet" program - AKA You are only supposed to be able to buy them if you are a fleet operator).
So the full sized wagon/car went away. So, what does it get replaced with? Well, at first, they really got replaced with Mini vans! (You do remember the Mini van craze, right?) The thing is, the early min vans really had some reliability problems. The people realized, hey, I can get this light truck that works, if I give up some creature comforts (BTW Mini vans of the mid 80s weren't all that luxurious). The move was inevitable. If people want something, they WILL figure out how to get what they want.
Now me? I drive a compact car (a Saturn), because it didn't pay for me to drive in a larger car. However, my next car will be larger (a Saturn doesn't work when you have to transport 4 people, a playpen etc). If I get a SECOND car, it'll be a truck. Why a truck? I work with a lot of heavy tools and equipment. It won't be a SUV, but a truck. If they make me register it as a commercial vehicle, so be it. If the stop pickups, I'll get a box van. They stop that, I'll buy a full sized truck! No, it won't be used every day, as I live where mass transport works.
Re:did you check into TRG (Score:1)
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
Re:Argh, not again... (Score:1)
Why do I need an SUV, when a station wagon would suffice?
I'm beginning to view SUVs as a combination status-mobile and station wagon for the macho with more money than common sense. CBS Marketwatch had a story about how SUV buyers are paying at least $250 per month more compared to a normal car after the higher price, extra fuel costs, and higher insurance were taken into account. In their opinion, it would be better to invest this for retirement. Given that most people use them just like a station wagon, IMHO, owning a SUV is a waste of resources.
16bit? (Score:1)
Re:Argh, not again... (Score:1)
Umm, but isn't Palm with its >70% market share the dominant interface for this type of device??
Oh, me bad
Grow up - a device should be fit for purpose, not fit for Linux.
Re:Station Wagons (Score:1)
Re:palm should do it for us -- WHY? (Score:1)
I don't see the market expanding significantly because of a switch to Linux. Business people don't give a crap what OS it is, as long as it works, and syncs data to their Windows boxes. Geeks are *not* as significant a market for Palm as you seem to imagine.
Besides, they'd lose differentiation in that market. They'd be competing against significantly higher-power hardware in the handheld Linux market. It's far better for them to have the OS as their advantage, and innovate hardware just enough to have new products which cause current owners to upgrade every few years.
PalmOS does not pretend to be more than it is. It is not a computing platform, it is a "keep my notes someplace handy" platform.
-Nev
Re:palm should do it for us -- WHY? (Score:1)
also, i never said that palm would have to release their interface as a free software. the underlying os (and their changes) would remain free, with a for-profit interface. never work you say? heard of OSX?
if your just going to troll, go read infoworld or something.
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Re:Argh, not again... (Score:1)
You say you're keeping
Also, when you use something up needlessly, you waste it, not waist it. Just a reality check here.
Re:palm should do it for us -- WHY? (Score:1)
The Pilot is a great piece... (Score:1)
Maybe in a year or two, we'll have one (or more) handheld-centric distribution that will rock our socks and will be worth every penny, but until then, I'll sit back and relax...
One of the cool things though... There is a linux port to the Psion handhelds, which seems really good... I may drop it on my 5mx someday, when it outlives its usefulness... heh
Re:Volvo 240D Wagon (Score:1)
Re:Argh, not again... (Score:3)
See http://slashdot.org/articles/99/11/11/0850205.sht
Re:Station Wagons (Score:1)
I haven't been in the market for them, but I believe that GM does still make full sized station wagon (an Oldsmobile). I would also consider many other vehicles in GM's line-up to be full-sized also. I know a couple people that recently bought a Crown Vic, and they certainly through fleet purchases.
But why is hauling a 4x8 sheet of plywood so important? Is this something that you do every week? If so, then yes, a truck may be in order. Better yet, go down to U-Haul have them put a trailer hitch on your car. Then you can rent or buy a small trailer that would carry the occasional 4x8 sheets of plywood. IMHO, way too many people buy vehicles in order to satisfy some psychological urge (to look cool, status, etc) and/or to be able to do a particular task that they might do once or twice a year instead of what they are going to use it for every day. A friend of mine bought an Explorer because he is an HVAC engineer and has lots of equipment that he needs to carry to contruction sites that may or may not be accessible by a regular car. For him it's a necessity. For the suburban soccer mom, it's a huge waste.
The CAFE exemption is another pet peeve. When they came up with the CAFE regs, the only people who bought light trucks were those who needed them (farmers, people hauling heavy tools & equipment, etc). Then trucks became fashionable and urbanites started buying them for the above stated reasons (and drove up the prices for the people who actually need them). The car makers got clued into this and started pitching vehicles that could technically be considered light trucks. They make far more profit from these vehicles and can skirt the regs at the same time. For crying out loud, the PT Cruiser (the same car that Andover is giving away) is classified as a light truck. Remove the retro panel-van body, and it's the same as a Neon! IMHO, CAFE should be expanded to include these 'light duty trucks'. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be made, because some people certainly need them.
I have a Hyundai Excel and a Mistubishi Precis (same car different year & badges). Both are hatchbacks and I can carry a hell of a lot with them. They can certainly carry four (five if squeezed) people and a playpen + other stuff. The list of stuff I've hauled in them include: wood for bookshelves (2x8 plywood, 2x4s, etc), twin mattresses & corresponding box springs, a 12 cu ft freezer, dressers, disassembled swing set (w/ slide, monkey bars, & swinging bench for two -- all in one trip w/ hatch closed) and lots of other stuff that I've forgotten about. The Excel even has a U-haul trailer hitch that was used to pull a packed 5x8 enclosed U-haul trailer over the Rocky Mountains (via I-80 & through the Eisenhower Tunnel) and across the plains in 90+ heat, without a complaint (well not from the car..lots of complaints from some of the passengers). It's still used to haul big pieces of furniture, refrigerators, etc. with an inexpensive U-haul trailer. So you can kinda see why I don't believe most people when they say they need a SUV or minivan. Unless, they have four+ kids and/or haul lots of equipment, they don't need it, they want it to satisfy some urge. My wife has tried to get me buy a small minivan or SUV over the years. The ones we've looked at usually flunk the 'does it carry as much as the Hyundai' test. If not, they flunk the 'cost to operate' tests.
I'm not an enviromentalist, just a cheap bastard who doesn't like to waste resources. It's no wonder I run Linux! =)