Foreign Language Education Software For Linux? 122
torinth asks: "Once upon a time, long, long, ago, I took some French classes in high school. I had to drop them, eventually, to provide more time for silly engineering courses, but now I want to get to back to learning the language a bit. Obviously, the best approach is to move up to Montreal or Paris for a bit and learn through immersion, but I really wouldn't mind getting a refresher first. There's a lot of Windows software for learning languages, but I just nuked my Windows partition, so now I'm wondering: Do any language educational programs exist for Linux?"
Re:You just aren't looking hard enough. (Score:1)
Re:Cymru am Byth! (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognition (Score:2)
My friend from the Georgian Republic (former Soviet republic) used Dragon's speech recognition system when learning English. He practiced English sentences until the engine was able to recognize them. This might be a good way to practice pronounciation because it helps unbias your accent. You speak a clear and in some sense 'pure' form of the language. There was quite a bit of mention on Slashdot about open source speech recognition engines.
I know that I learned a lot about Portuguese grammar when I was trying to learn by talking to people from Brazil who were learning English. They would directly translate into English, so I would get a good idea of how to construct Portuguese sentences (eg: For to go there. The Maurio is arrived.) by observing interesting constructions in English. Maybe using Babelfish or something on the language of your choice would help you in this respect.
Re:You just aren't looking hard enough. (Score:1)
--Shoeboy
Re:FreshMeat (Score:1)
I'd hate to sound mean so early in the morning.... But maybe "ask slashdot" should be renamed to "ask slashdot users to type something in www.google.com/linux for me".
Well, part of the point of Ask Slashdot is not to just ask for pointers (although people who include them are often moderated up), but for actual reccomendations from people who have worked with whatever the questions is about. If you just give pointers that you find with a search engine, you have no idea if the stuff pointed to is of any value.
Re:You just aren't looking hard enough. (Score:1)
=;-`
Transparent Language (Score:1)
Re:Bah, Montreal (Score:2)
French is French. I live in Montreal, I'm Anglophone & my sweetheart is Francophone. We deal all of the time with folks from other parts of the world and yes, they're understandable. Some of the folks from Gaspasia are a bit difficult but it's all French.
The French here is different then that spoken in Pais, as that differs from that spoken in Tolouse, Martinique, etc. Is any one of them "right"? Well Parisian French is generally considered (mostly by Parisians) to be the goal but that's about as realistic as BBC Received English being a big deal to most English speakers.
The same as English varies from that garble spoken by Scots to the record-played-at-half-speed of the deep US South to the twisty pronunciations by folks from India French varies and learning any of them, particularly for the extrememly isolated/insulated US population is always a good thing.
By the way, all written French is identical.
Congratulations! (Score:1)
If there's one post that has lowered the level on /., this is it.
But nevertheless, congratulations. This is the _worst_ french I've ever seen.
Did you flunk french at school, or did you use babelfish?
Roland
I'm just beginning to develop this.... (Score:2)
I'm not supposed to say a lot right now, but rest assured that things like this are coming and I'm trying to use GNU code. Also, my undergrad work was a BA in la litterature francaise, so I'm really looking to bend this towards teaching anglophones French.
Re:why? (Score:2)
Oh, and here I was thinking I could get through a single day of posting on slashdot without having someone insult me. Check your attitude dude and try to show some repect for your fellow man.
Low tech solutions (Score:2)
When I was teaching English over in Japan, I visited more than one school which had invested in fancy, expensive language teaching technology. The students' desks had headphones and microphones and lots of buttons to push. The other teachers and I shook our heads. It's expensive, it's technological, so it must be good.
As for me, give me a blackboard and chalk, a decent textbook, and an ample xerox allocation, and I'll do just fine; that's what I need to do the best job I can. I don't think having computers in my classroom improves the class, except perhaps in a writing class where a word processor comes in handy. (Maybe I should add that it's not that I dislike computers in general; I've worked as a programmer and have been a hacker from way back. I've just come to the conclusion that computers aren't the right solution in this case.)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
A chief from a small village deep in the jungle flew to the United States to visit the President.
When he arrived at the airport, there was a large group of reporters and people with television cameras. One of the reporters asked the chief if he had a comfortable flight. The chief made a series of weird noises...."screech, scratch, honk, buzz, whistle, z-z-z-z-"...and then he added in perfect English, "Yes, I had a very nice flight."
Another reporter asked, "Chief, do you plan to visit the Statue of Liberty while you're in the United States?"
The chief made the same noises..."screech, scratch, honk, buzz, whistle, z-z-z-z"...and then said, "Yes, and I also plan to visit the White House and the Grand Canyon."
"Where did you learn to speak English so well, Chief?" asked the next reporter. The chief replied, "Screech, scratch, honk, buzz, whistle, z-z-z-z...from the shortwave radio."
(Stolen from http://bennyhills.fortunecity.com/billmurray/532/
Re:English, actually (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Immersion Up To Your Toes. (Score:2)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
What's "linguistically inferior"?
Actually, Mandarin gained ascendency in Asia in the same way English did in the west (and, recently, worldwide) -- by hitching its wagon to the right horse. Or, in this case, dynasty.
Some might argue that English is "linguistically inferior" (though I'm still not sure what that could mean) because it isn't linguistically pure -- being an amalgam of French and German, and retaining features of both. English is also much more difficult for adult speakers to learn than Mandarin.
Re:English, actually (Score:1)
Re:English, actually (Score:1)
Re:why? (Score:1)
Re:why? (Score:1)
Re:Wine? (Score:1)
partition on your PC?
If you do, what about installing winblows programs?
Try switching your desktop (Score:1)
The demo doesn't work(Rosetta Stone) (Score:1)
doesn't exist. The last version is version 4
and it requires version 8.
Re:Rosetta Stone (Score:1)
dear god (Score:1)
I translated this to english, and I'm a little worried about you.
This is what the fish gave me:
And Shoeboy, little boy with amazing buttocks, knows that I myself am thinking while touching of you. If you want to use babelfish, it is better that you are polished, because the sheen your skin intoxicating is. Ben, I have more anything to say, because I believe that everyone think already that he is beautiful...
Wow, I guess it is true what they say about the french.
--Shoeboy
Re:Oh poop (Score:2)
There's always been lots of communication between Cajun, it's parent Acadian, and with Quebecois and French-from-France. There was never any revelation that Acadian or it's derivitive Cajun were related to a dialect spoken historically in certain parts of France. Families retained ties, histories are well documented and of course there was always commercial & social interaction.
By the way the same is true for English spoken in certain parts of the Canadian Maritimes. It's remains the closest to that spoken in parts of the UK in Shakespeare's time and there's been a great deal of study done to understand vowel-shifts etc. from historical times to present; much of it towards identifying exactly how Shakespear expected his iambic pentameter to sound.
- Michael, who enjoys watching his Acadian friends and his Quebecois friends try and figure out exactly what belongs in a torttierre.
Re:why? (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
One last note. I can read korean. I have no idea what it all means, but i can read it. Their alphabet is the most simplistic I have ever seen and it took me about two weeks to learn it. So, that leaves your list to; chinese.
Re:Ask Slashdot (Score:1)
Perhaps, just perhaps, this is a topic that might have wide interest and that the question is worth asking. And perhaps the answers are worth reviewing as well.
Freedom to be lazy (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
I bet your motivations are to pick up on Chinese girls - here's a tip: they don't like it when you try too hard.
Re:Bah, Montreal (Score:2)
Secondly clearly you've never been to N. Africa, the Caribbean, Polynesia, etc. Indeed apparently you've never been outside Paris. French is spoken in all of these places and it's not your ideal-French either. Try Corsica sometime if you want 'different' French in France. Heck, even in Paris one finds a wide variety of French and again it's not all your dream-textbook French.
As I tried to make clear there's as much variation in French as there is in English. The same as da boyz in da 'hood may use their own talk the fine folks in Gaspasia have Joile (sp?)
French is a living language and contrary to the ideals of apparatchiks like Language Ministers (and apparently yourself) it's complicated, varied, and vibrant.
Yes learning French in Montreal would leave someone with an accent that would make a Parisian cry (generally considered a good thing in most parts of the world outside Paris.) However it would no less be French and would no less be useful.
I presume you speak English (as I know you write in it.) Is your accent the ideal you hold up? Would your voice be heard on a 1950's BBC World Service broadcast? Are your vowels properly rounded, your elocution studied and pronounced, your spoken structure direct out of a 1920's Oxford guide?
If not then I think you have no point: you're debating class and culture not language.
Re:Bah, Montreal (Score:1)
There's a point you're making which is a valid one- never try and confuse a given slang or idiomatic accent for a difference in language. The fact that they say "coquerelle" (cock-er-ell) rather than "cafard" (cafa) for cockroach isn't what I'm talking about. Joual is not what I consider French in any sense of the word, and I'm not comparing joual to french, nor the moé/moi (mow-ay/mow-aw: means "me") toé/toi (tow-ay/tow-aw: means "you")discrepancies in pronounciation, especially the grating "ouin" (whine like a baby through your nose) for "oui" (wee, "yes").
However, in English, say "The magazine's you should of throne out" isn't proper English, no matter what the idiom, accent, slang, whatever. It's grammatically incorrect, stylistically horrible, and JUST PLAIN WRONG. And that is my problem with Quebecois French. It's a gutter pidgin of English and 17th century hick backwater French. It is what it is, it should be preserved, it's a language in and of itself, etc etc etc but in no way should you hold it up and say it's more French than what they speak in France.
Wine? (Score:1)
If you look on the system requirments for programs, it sometimes tells you if you'll need Direct-X or not, since that is hard to set-up with wine. But there is alot of programs that don't need it, and would probably be just what you looking for, maybe even if you look on Wines site, you'll find where somebody elso already got one to work.
(Also, you could try VMware, you get a 30day license for free, and every time you want a new license, just sign up for some hot-mail account for them to send you one)
Re:why? (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
Translated (You just aren't looking hard enough.) (Score:4)
Here's a handmade translation of this obviously babelfished piece of text
You are a bit without value of droppings of babboon. Your ask the question of Slashdot was the bit of cut-downs the most without value on which I ever laid some eyes. If I meet you ever I will give a kick your donkey. No, draft who, I will rape your donkey. And you will appreciate it. Have a pleasant day.
Thomas Miconi
WINE might be of use - (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
No education software... (Score:1)
--
Re:English, actually (Score:2)
For that matter, just being born and rasied in the U.S. doesn't mean that someone can speak english. One of my students actually used "gonna" on a test last semester . . .
English, actually (Score:2)
(OK, so those who speak it as a first language rarely speak a second, but that's another issue.)
hawk
parlo.com (Score:1)
-bennybobw
--we mock what we do not understand--
Have a look at kvoctrain. (Score:1)
Haven't tested it, but might be worth checking out.
Rosetta Stone (Score:2)
I'm currently learning Vietnamese using Rosetta Stone, and find it to be absolutely first rate. It's implemented in Flash, I think, so getting it running under Linux might be possible. The system teaches you language behaviouristically: there's no grammar lessons or suchlike. You just get thrown right in at the deep end. You fire up the program and straight away you hear someone say something in the language you're trying to learn. You then have to click on the picture which corresponds to what they've said. After no time at all you'll realise you're learning words and grammar without knowing how you're doing it. Brilliant! And some lessons involve speech recognition: the system compares your intonation with an ideal sample and gives you a rating.
There's a Flash demo of the system online at http://www.trstone.com/ [trstone.com] which allows you to select French or several other languages (lots of them, actually, including Swahili, Japanese, Arabic, Welsh, Hebrew, Latin, French, German and Italian). Trying the demo in your native language (such as US English) is fun!
I'm not sure whether it's possible to get the online demo running under Linux. I'm convinced, however, that a Linux version would be feasible, and that the immersive learning system is the best way to learn a second language. Sometimes (quite often, actually) the simplest ideas are the best.
Oh, I should say that one drawback with the software is that it's expensive. But no more expensive than a year of lessons would be, and more effective in my opinion.
Re:Wine? (Score:2)
Re:Wine? (Score:1)
Regarding VMWare, its performance suffers somewhat on media-intensive apps. Win4Lin, while faster in most situations, also bogs down quite heavily when some graphics-related API functions are called.
Re:my thoughts... (Score:1)
Re:FreshMeat (Score:1)
FreshMeat (Score:2)
IRC (Score:1)
Ask Slashdot (Score:3)
Do I lack the ability to perform even the most basic research on my own?
Tommorrow's 'Ask Slashdot':
Will someone please help me answer this C++ programming class assignment?
An Outstanding GPLd Chinese Character Tutor (Score:1)
Adrian Robert of UCSD has created Hanzim, a truly excellent tutor for people learning to read written Chinese. Hanzim is GPLd and has a nice GUI in Tcl/Tk 8.1.
I think the Hanzim project is an outstanding achievement. I wouldn't be surprised if the author starts getting a lot of press recognition for his work, and also one of the Free Software Awards [slashdot.org] for educational software. Afterall, he has created, with some help, a dictionary with over 6000 individual Chinese characters and over 18000 Chinese character combinations, each with English translations as well as a cross-referenced Chinese radical lookup facility.
The software is downloadable from Robert's Hanzim directory [ucsd.edu] (http://zakros.ucsd.edu/~arobert/hanzim.html).
As a footnote, there is, of course, plenty of good commercial Chinese language tutorial software but Hanzim, uniquely, is under the GPL.
-- William
Re:why? (Score:1)
P.S. Hanzim = good Japanese Kanji tutor too (Score:1)
Hanzim [ucsd.edu], the Chinese character tutor, is also very good for learning the Japanese Kanji characters and multi-character combinations, which are based on traditional Chinese characters. Hanzim doesn't help with learning the Katakana or Hiragana, which are alphabetic not ideographic, but the alphabetic characters are simple to learn. There is also no Japanese pronunciation provided although it'd be easy to add to Hanzim's database.
Re:Bah, Montreal (Score:2)
Second I don't know what axe you're trying to grind but nowhere did I "hold it up and say it's more French than what they speak in France."
You keep setting up straw-men and then tearing them down. I'm sure it's entertaining but aside from any masturbatory joy you're getting out of this it's a poor form of rhetoric and in this case neither impressive or useful.
I'd also recommend you stop trying to imply these straw-men are from anyone other then from yourself and strive for a bit of intellectual honesty.
I did point out that even in France, and indeed in Paris folks don't live in the linguistic purity you seem to be obsessing about. You can go from there wherever you want but please don't credit me for your words or ideas.
Finally, as I noted before you're debating class & culture and apparently now aesthetics. Aside from my own feeling that's a particularly pointless effort it's also not one I give a damn about. You're welcome to your ivory tower, I've more interesting things to do with folks both more entertaining and more honest.
Cheers.
Excellent Chinese writing tutor of interest... (Score:1)
You might also be interested in learning written Chinese using a really excellent Chinese character tutor called "Hanzim" which is free GPLd software -- ~I posted more information about Hanzim here. [slashdot.org]
Re:Bah, Montreal (Score:1)
Let's look at the original post, shall we? You're losing sight of the original context
"Once upon a time, long, long, ago, I took some French classes in high school. I had to drop them, eventually, to provide more time for silly engineering courses, but now I want to get to back to learning the language a bit. Obviously, the best approach is to move up to Montreal"
Montreal is a mostly English-speaking city, and what French is spoken there is a gutter dialect. Just as how I wouldn't suggest anyone interested in learning English to hang around a bunch of illiterates in a lube shop in Tennessee, or listen to hip-hop lyrics in full-bore Ebonics, I wouldn't recommend anyone with a desire to learn classical French to go learn that "toi" is pronounced "touain".
RE: Second I don't know what axe you're trying to grind but nowhere did I "hold it up and say it's more French than what they speak in France."
You didn't - that evil cow Louise whatsername, the minister of Language Purity, did. She went over to France to protest their lack of Frenchness, which I find rich.
RE: Finally, as I noted before you're debating class & culture and apparently now aesthetics.
Look, if you want to learn French, whatever it is now, go to France. If you want to learn Quebecois joual, go to Quebec. But don't pretend languages are what they aren't, OK? Thanks. Good bye.
Speech Recognision (Score:5)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
as for an egg... maybe..
The chinese girls are a bonus though.
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
not to give any details -- but no just because their skin is golden doesn't mean that i think they should speak chinese, it is when their parents still speak it as their dominant language and that is what i hear when i call them on the phone that i beleive that their chinese should be (and usually is) admirable.
just as a side note: i do not want to come off as "too puffed up." my humble apologies if i did so.
one last note -- i was raised in china, so I know what a chinese-american family is and a chinese-turned-american family is... (again, i do not want to sound puffed up, but i was to show that i am not naive - at least not too naive)
Very quotable (Score:2)
I would like to use that line as my next Slashdot signature. Would you object?
__
Re:FreshMeat (Score:1)
Re:why? (Score:1)
Re:why? (Score:1)
As has been posted elsewhere [geekizoid.com], I'm in seattle.
--Shoeboy
Alles Viens! (Holt, Rinehart, Winston = publisher) (Score:1)
i find it to help (if u want 2 run it under linux u will have 2 run wine, sorry) ttfn...
Re:FreshMeat (Score:1)
But maybe "ask slashdot" should be renamed to "ask slashdot users to type something in www.google.com/linux for me".
argent
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
NLS (Score:1)
Set nls to french. You'll either learn it or die of frustration. 8)
--
Give a man a match, you keep him warm for an evening.
Re:two words (Score:1)
Bah, Montreal (Score:1)
How about this? (Score:1)
Re:Low tech solutions (Score:1)
both can be justified, it only depend on the environment.
lots of people can't be bothered taking classes, but wish to learn a few phrases and basics of a particular language. also to be concidered is that many people are more comfortable starting with basics on their own (remember those learning tapes for the cars, learning by mail classes etc - quite popular starting point). some of us feel better about getting on with the basics on our own in a relaxed environment where we are not afraid of being embarrased etc. Getting started is the most important step on the road.
so what I am getting at, these apps for learning, in a quiet environment is sometimes pretty good to have. I am looking forward to see this development coming on for the unixes.
..a side effect could be that the development could also be used in the development of voice recognition and voice control featured user interface where appropriate etc..
hope someone out there listens..
What is this? (Score:1)
JollyFinn
-No Fishy babels where used to create this comment.
Wild Eastern Languages (Score:1)
Linux (Score:1)
Simply put : No (Score:2)
Radio-Canada (Score:2)
I love listening to Radio-Canada on the Internet ("Vous ecouteza la premiere chaine de Radio-Canada, en direct, sur Internet"). One of the better radio stations I've found to listen to, here in Austin, TX.
And, aside from the occasional late-night student dj tossing around the odd English phraseology, it sounds pretty clean and pure to my Anglophone ears.
Re:Rosetta Stone (Score:1)
Oh poop (Score:2)
Until one day a French scholar happened by the University, happened to overhear a conversation, and excitedly demanded to know how they'd learned 17th century French dialect from the northern provinces so well (his specialty apparently was 17th century folk literature of that area).
Point being -- North American French is French. It's a dialect of French that once was spoken in France but has since largely died out there, and it's a dialect of French that has to a certain extent migrated in different directions due to being surrounded by English-speakers, but it's French. My father served on sub tenders during the Korean War, and whenever the ship needed somebody to talk with the French (they were poking around in Indochina at the time), they'd haul him off of his usual duties and put him to work as a translater. It was no more disconcerting than trying to put a Southern USA English type talking to a BBC London English type, where the USA type wonders why the other is talking about pretty girls, and the BBC type is wondering why the USA type is talking about using hand carts for transporting troops and supplies. (Sorry, "truck" vs. "lorrie").
-E
Re:Translated (You just aren't looking hard enough (Score:1)
That's not a shot at American's in general
And Yahoo (Score:2)
__
Re:Linux (Score:1)
Go and fill your automobile up with diesel fuel. Diesel is cheaper.
Got the point?
Re:why? (Score:2)
The second most popular language in the world is Spanish. English ranks in at number three and is hardly limited to "americian english".
http://www.ef.com (Score:2)
--------------------------------------
I'm a karma whore, mod me up damn you!
A Suggestion: (Score:2)
Installers and Microsoft EULAs (Score:1)
WINE has supported most installers for (around) the last 4-6 months.
Watch the EULA. Several Microsoft programs (such as Internet Explorer) come with a "Supplemental EULA" that states, in effect, "If you are not installing this on a genuine licensed installation of Microsoft Windows 95, Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition, Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition, Microsoft Windows NT, or Microsoft Windows 2000 (hereinafter "Windows Family OS"), you have no rights under this EULA and may not install the Software.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]
Re:Rosetta Stone (Score:1)
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
I don't think you would get anywhere with this method. For the above reasons, and because it would just take too long. Get a decent book and a few tapes, and you will probably get further much faster. And if you spend less time on
Re:Syracuse Language Software (Score:1)
Correcteur 101 (Score:2)
Correcteur 101 is a French grammar checker that provides a complete grammatical analysis of a sentence. It analyzes, explains, and corrects grammatical and spelling errors.
It's not a educational program, but it should be able to help you get on you way.
--------
Re:why? (Score:1)
I thought we were trying to prevent illiteracy, not promote it?
"The good thing about Alzheimer's is that you can hide your own Easter eggs."
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:1)
djtansey@bigfoot.com
language learning software (Score:1)
Most of the language learning software I have used is really unacceptable, and this includes software (for Mac and Windows) at university. Then again, the software I have has been cheap and you get what you pay for. I was so fed up with the unusefulness of the software, I decided to spend money at university and learn the language. I think I have only had the fortunate experience ofusing one piece of useful software for German (for Power Mac), which accomapnies the text I was using however I couldn't purchase the software myself, I think it must have come with the instructors edition or something.
One of the things I am surprised about with the multimedia explosion is that language learning software has only gotten glossier, but anot anymore useful.
beaucoup d'information (Score:1)
One way to learn about french is by reading things in French. All worthwhile software is usually released with French translations:
Debian [debian.org]GNU [gnu.org]
But of course if you don't know any French this won't help. You can however, check out this tutorial [helio.org].
I know! (Score:3)
Hey! It's simple! Just type a whole lot of phrases into Babelfish and read the results. What could go wrong? Soon, you'll be speaking like this:
Bonjour, monsieur! Je suis un nerd! Je voudrais savoir ou je pourrais trouver une connexion de reseau et un beaucoup rapides de cafe, s'il vous plait!*
It's that simple. Heck! Get a wireless connection, and you can par-lee-voo anywhere you want!
Re:Speech Recognision (Score:2)
[some sentence in their language]
[attempt to repeat the sentence]
[repeat what the student said]
[repeat what the sentence is supposed to be]
The third step is very important because you generally have no idea what you have said wrong. Hearing what you said and what you were supposed to say makes it easier to learn. Once you have done a lot of this you can start learning vocab and grammar. These steps could be done by a computer mechanically. But it is also good to have the native speaker say "yer, that's close enough, now we can move on", which is where the speech recognision would come in.
You just aren't looking hard enough. (Score:5)
--Shoeboy
It's not really a bad question (Score:3)
Best to interpret the question as "I can't believe that this is all of the language software that exists for un*x! Anyone out there working on something?"
I gotta say, y'all complain too much.
Re:why? (Score:2)