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The Almighty Buck

Why Are Software Rebates Being Rejected? 223

Posted by Cliff from the hordes-of-angry-consumers dept.
Richie asks: "For the third time in as many months, I have had a rebate request rejected after having followed the instructions on the rebate form to the letter. This time it was a $35 rebate from Intuit for buying Quicken and Turbotax. I received a a letter from Intuit's rebate fulfillment company stating that my rebate is being rejected as I purchased the product directly from Intuit. This is after submitting the appropriate proof a purchase along with a receipt showing that product was clearly purchased from Egghead. After a call to the fulfillment company they apologize and ask that I re-submit the request. I'm still awaiting the rebate check." First it was Microsoft with their stubbornness to live up to the wording in their own EULA's regarding refunds. Now this. Why do software companies feel they are entitled to keep consumers' money after every sale, even though they may have promised to give some back?

"A month earlier, I bought a 128MB Kingston DIMM from buy.com and once again submit the rebate as instructed. A few weeks later I receive a postcard saying that my request was denied as I didn't submit the original purchase receipt showing the price of the item. After sending an e-mail to the fulfillment company stating that I submitted the only receipt that I had from buy.com which is the print out of the Web page after you complete your order, I receive a response stating that my rebate has been approved. This particuliar rebate was an offer only valid through buy.com and Kingston which makes it difficult for me to believe that the fulfillment company wouldn't know what a receipt from buy.com looks like. I'm also still awaiting the rebate check.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is just a case of bad luck or whether these rebates are only a scam by companies to get people to buy the products due to the advertised after-rebate prices, and then they figure that most people won't submit the rebate requests to begin with and for those that do, they will make it as difficult as possible to receive the promised rebate money."
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Why Are Software Rebates Rejected? More

Why Are Software Rebates Rejected?

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  • One Way to Cut Down on Posts (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ya know, this is way OT, but I feel I have to speak out on this:

    Posters, if you would read the posts before you post, not just the top two or three, and then reply to those to get your post up top for the moderators, you most likely will find that your exact point will have been made in almost identical language, or in many cases, even better than you would have said it!

    This would save a lot of time for all of us, and even yourself, since you won't have to type anything, and IT WILL STILL GET SAID and READ!

    For some reason, redundancy just got too much for me to bear in this particular topic.

    Thank you for your time. We now return you to your local /.

  • a bit reactionary? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    my $30 rebate was screwed up by a company who later made good on it after i pointed it out. this must be because microsoft sucks!
    god slashdot get a clue!

    who sends those things in anyway? its only another way for those evil companies to build larger mailing lists. do you really want another visa application in your mailbox every week? is it worth $30? not to me it isnt

  • Just like philly parking tickets (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A lawyer friend told me that the courts in Philadelphia automatically reject all first-level appeals of parking tickets, which means that people feel they've had their day in court and lost. I imagine it's the same way- they figure a small enough percentage of folks actually return rebates in the first place, and for such a relatively small amount of cash even fewer of them are willing to follow up if they don't get the rebate later. It's a war of attrition, and guess who's going to win.

  • Re:Microsoft? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    yup, /. has to relate everything to some perceived Microsoft wrongdoing (look mummy, I dare write the evil word in full!). If they don't, they have no stories anymore :)

  • its because (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    90% of the people dont want to spend this time just to get a few bux back, and I bet a lot of companies are counting on this... its all a gamble

  • One Idea (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I read about a similar problem in an IT magazine (Infoweek?) last year One reader had a very interesting way of deal with rebates.

    The reader kept a spreadsheet tracking when reebates were supposed to be due. At the 60-day mark, he sent a "collection notice". At 90 days, he threatened to go to the Better Business Bureau. Apparently, he only had to go to the BB twice.

    -Giordana (posting from the Windows partition).

  • Rebates are a scam to begin with, clear and simple. "We will give you $XX back!" Bullshit. What they really mean is that "Our product wasn't worth the money we claim it's worth (did you really believe they are giving you money back because they are so nice and find you such a nice person?), and we also want your data to our customer database." I've sent my own share of rebate coupons but that only means that I'm prepared to part with part of my privacy with a few bucks, as sad as that sounds.
  • Or I can go somewhere else that DOESN'T require a card to get the discounts and avoid the problem altogether. I hate carrying around dozens of cards for different stores just so I can save a few bucks here and there, instead I've taken up a policy of only shopping at stores that don't require a stuipid card. Goodbye Kroger, hello Shoppers.

    Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
  • Most people don't take the time to send back the rebate forms (I know that normally I don't). However, one vendor that made me decide to send the rebate form back was Best Buy (they not only print out the form for you at the register, they print out extra copies of your receipt). I don't know what their online policy is though.
  • (Best Buy is really good about not having your particluar rebate card in the store)

    While I shy away from rebates in general, due to all the problems mentioned by others, I must say that at least the local (Denver) Best Buy stores print out a rebate form AND an extra receipt.

    Prophet's comments were accurate before Best Buy adopted this practice.

  • Someone should tell this to the MPAA and similar organizations. They've been suing out of state plantiffs on a regular basis for quite some time now.

    OTOH, all that is required for a company to fall within a local jurisdiction is for them to do business there.
  • So, actually bothering to stand up for yourself makes you the equivalent of "Comic Store Guy"?

    How could you be any more of a Sheep?
  • How incredibly predictable.

    An article about rebates for software purchased includes a rip on some unrelated Microsoft thing.

    Where else but slashdot.org would you ever find people stupid enough to link the two together?
  • Nope: If the retailer pockets the money and doesn't pass the rebate on to the customer it only means that the rebate is what the manufacturers claim. I.e. A discount.

    When iNTEL has a real life price cut on Pentium chips not all vendors pass that on to PC buyers either.

    This BS about "Rebates being abused by retailers just shows that Rebate programs are a fraud.
  • ...are a come-on to get you to purchase something, a modern variation on the "$19.95" pricing scam that most people mentally read as $19.00 even though the price is essentially $20.00.

    Rebates, *when* the seller honors them, at least give the seller a great float -- they have your money, earning them interest somewhere, until they get around to honoring their rebate and send you what they owe you...

    At worst, they're a rip-off because either you don't bother, or they never get around to honoring the rebate and they keep your money.

    As for Quicken/TurboTax, I've *never* received a rebate back from them, over years and years..

    They *are* a total rip-off; it's only because of the low price of their product (2000 version TurboTax for "$14.95" - $19.95 ignoring their "rebate") that I'll buy it anyway...

    Quicken/TurboTax's rebates are a total scam.

    t_t_b
    --
    I think not; therefore I ain't®

  • I clicked on your link, half thinking it was just another goatse.cx redirect, and what do I find? A professional attorney who is heading up the OpenLaw forum and fighting for fair use rights. Thank God not every lawyer has sold out our society for a few measley bucks. You're doing good work. I wish I could help out beyond my donations to EFF and the ACLU, but you have my support, respect, and thanks.

    Cheers,
    --Maynard
  • I got a rebate form rejected because I didn't fill in an office phone number. They sent me a letter telling me I didn't complete the form and I needed to fill in the office number. I called them at the support number listed on the rejection letter. A woman looked up my file and reiterated the reason I didn't qualify. I then told her I didn't have an office number. She said OK and that next time I should write in NONE. Well they sent the check after that.

    -weld
  • Chicago's main post office is 24/7 - the big place right down by the Sears Tower. Let me tell you - an 11:50pm postmark has saved my ass some late charges more than once!
  • I would vote for bad luck, or not reading the instructions carefully enough. I've always gotten my money back on all the rebates that I've sent. However I've sometimes had to spend more than three seconds reading the fine print. Rebates are obviously offered on the thought that people won't bother to cash them in. Same as the lifetime warranty on under $30 items. Where it's cheaper and easier for you to just go buy a new one than send a letter and/or the item to the company to get a new one.

    But on principle I always fill out rebate forms even if it is for a piddling amount of money. I've found that the only lists that my info ever gets "sold" to is usually that companies marketing department, and I really don't mind throwing away Quicken stuff frequently. ;)
  • Interstate 30 at Sylvan Avenue, between Downtown and Oak Cliff.
  • I couldn't believe it when customer relations at Apple told me they wouldn't pony up the $500 rebate I sent in.
    Reason? I sent it in 3 days late (including 2 postoffice holidays). Unbelievable, read on? They only gave me 11 days to send it in and that was burried in the fine print.
  • I know for a fact that at least at RadioShack there is a sign posted that says they will not sell your information gathered. As a matter of fact, if they do sell the (unique) information I give them, I know exactly where it came from and can sue them for all the fun gadgets I can use.

    Mycroft-X
  • This is the first real sensible comment I've read on this topic. I also refuse to buy anything based on a mail-in rebate. As far as I am concerned, they are just another form of bait and switch.
  • Between coupons and my shopper's card, I routinely save 25% to 40% off of my weekly grocery bill. Over the course of a year, that adds up to several hundred dollars.

    With that in mind, who really cares if the store knows I like Turkey Store Italian Sausage and Peanut Butter Captain Crunch?
  • Nashville Airport Post office is open 24x7.

    Nashville is not that large a city.

    I imagine this is not unusual, and expect most larger cities have one office open late.

  • Where in the US is there a Post Office that is open past 5:00pm, except for special dates (like April 15th)?

    I live in NYC. The closest PO to me is open till 6, there is one a little farther away open until 8, and the big huge postoffice by Penn Station is open 24 hours.
    --
    // mlc, user 16290

  • ...I can assure you that most of what's being said is true. Many people don't claim their rebates. Fine print and other artificial barriers are purposely constructed to make it as much a hassle as possible. Though it has been part of my profession from time to time, I think rebates are a ripoff at worst, and cheesy marketing practice at best. I personally avoid them when possible, as well as supermarkets with club cards, etc. I seek out businesses that have everyday low prices, without the hassle. I have better things to do than worry about being ripped off, and there *are* businesses who meet my needs. I haven't shopped in a big chain supermarket in years!

    Rebates and such are the default mode of MBA's who can't think creatively, which is most of them. Marketing people like to think of themselves as "the creative ones." But in my experience, they're the least creative, most conservative of all, and least willing to try anything new. All they ever do is follow formulas. The bright, creative people are all in IT, finance, and law. More often than not, marketing directors are dimbulbs who came up through the sales ranks, rising to their level of incompetence via the old "Peter Principle." If they get degrees, it's only because their company offered an automatic promotion, not because they actually wanted to be able to think, learn, and do their jobs better.

    I've gone back into engineering after 15 years in marketing (I have masters' degrees in both), because I'm sick of spending my days with used car salesmen. Marketing may pay better, but engineering is ultimately more rewarding.


  • I've sent in many rebates over the years. Never have I bought something *because* of the rebate; but when I'm offered a few dollars back on something I was purchasing anyways, I usually go for it.

    Well, so far, I've only ever once received the money back. To be specific, it was Circuit City, a $30 rebate on the delivery of my $1000+ refrigerator.

    All the others, around a dozen total, never came.

    In a nutshell, I simply don't believe rebates.
  • I'll bet they'd be interested to know about false advertising practices like this.

  • I routinely take things to the airport post-office in my city. It's open 24-7.

  • Um, what the bloody hell is a rebate?

    From what I've gathered on this forum, it seems like some kind of discount *after* you've bought an item, operated mostly in the USA (certainly I've never heard of such schemes in the UK).

    I must admit, if I'm understanding correctly, they stike me as incredibly daft, and probably illegal under EU trading laws (confusion marketting, unfair pricing etc).

    Can someone explain what they are and why they're a good idea? Or, if they're a bad idea, why you lot put up with them?

    --

  • It's also about retail prices. The company can temporarily lower the perceived price of an item without the stigma of lowering the actual retail price. After the rebate has expired, the product still sustains the original higher retail price.

    Once you drop the price on an item, raising it again becomes nearly impossible. Rebates are an effort to combat downward price-creep.

    Other reasons:
    1) more people end up with the product (everyone else has it!) which bumps up sales,
    2) the "float" mentioned above,
    3) rebates give an extra impetus to a buy decision because they are timed. There is a greater psychological pressure to buy something when the consumer believes he is getting something for nothing,
    4) perceived reciprocity. "Here, I'm going to give you this, if only you do that. Since I'm going to be so generous, it's not asking too much for you to buy it, right?"

    Simple marketing.


    Regards,
    -scott
  • Why should Best Buy (Circuit City, OfficeMax, Office Depot, Staples, fill in the blank) stock heatsinks when 99% of their customers don't know what they are or how to properly install them and wouldn't be in the market for one even if they did? There are more profitable uses for that shelf/display space.

    Radio Shack, however, since they destroy the market for other electronics parts houses in most small to medium size communities, could do a much better job of carrying computer stuff. I wish I could walk into one and buy commodity priced stuff like cases, cables, RAM, drives, fans, heat sinks, etc.

    I hate having to default to paying Radio Shack for anything. They always have stuff (IC's, LED's, LCD's, Bud boxes, and such) a couple of years before or after I need it, but not when I need it.

  • Firms figure that if you buy the SW because of the rebate then the business risk they take in not awarding it to you is worth it. Odds are you'll just fume for a while. You still bought it and you already know that even if software burns your house down you can't return it and have no recourse. So they just screw you.

    I'm sorry, I thought you got the memo.
  • You're forgetting one more thing. With the rebates, they end up with nice demographics data for the people that have sent in the rebates. Not only is it demographics data, it's also a great list of names and addresses of people that buy stuff -- something that is sellable too.
  • >Where in the US is there a Post Office that is >open past 5:00pm, except for special dates (like >April 15th)?

    Dallas, Texas has a post office that is
    open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, except
    postal holidays. "Open" means fully staffed
    at the counter. The part that sells collectibles
    keeps banker's hours.


  • It's nothing more than Marketing 101, pals. It is well known that only 10 to 20% people bother with the rebates hassle, so it's a cheap way (for the vendors) to make a "discount"...

    --

  • I simply avoid products (and retailers) that offer
    mail-in rebates. From my experience, about half the time I either never receive the rebate, or get only a fraction of the rebated amount. I now view mail-in rebates as a scam and refuse to play the game. If enough folks stop going along with this, perhaps the vendors would offer discounts rather than rebates.
  • I dunno about anyone else, but I very rarely got any rebates I sent for...
    There's an easy way of dealing with that tho, just don't buy anything expecting to get a rebate.
    I usually can find items online with price + shipping equal to or less than department store's price - rebate.

    Mail-away rebates just aren't worth the time and trouble, especially when the initial outlay is the same.

    --K
  • I had a similar incident with a cdrom that I bought. It was a few years ago and I sent a message to slashdot but they did nothing.

    I basically bought my cdrom at Comp USA I think. I got the rebate scanned it and still have a copy of the UPC code as well as the rebate form. I sent it in and they tell me they never got it. I went through this for months till I finally gave up. The cdrom was from Atlas Perpherials. It was a 32X cdrom. They claim they never got it and asked me to email them a bmp of the rebate and all. I did several times and they still stay the never got it. I gave up. Atlas perpherials is a sub of newcom I think or something like that. It has been a while and it was 30 dollars that I was owed.

    I had problems with Iomega and the zip rebate a few years ago where it took forever to get teh rebate, and they were actually sewed by someone about this.

    I also had to wait a while on my zoom modem rebate.

    After all the problems I have had with rebates (especially with Atlas), I NEVER buy ANYTHING that has a rebate unless it is in the store and I get the money at the cash register. This is my own policy and I usually recommend to anyone to avoid rebates. They are usually more of a hastly then they are worth.

    Sure many people have no problems, but I'd rather not spend the money and then have to mail in something to get it back.

    This brings me to privacy policy as well. Why do they need to offer a rebate? Why not just discount it instead? I'll tell you why. They want your mailing address. By sending in a rebate they guarantee getting your return mailng address. Isn't this a violation of my privacy?

    I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
    Flame away, I have a hose!

  • I'm assuming you're in the US, since you mentioned Best Buy.

    Where in the US is there a Post Office that is open past 5:00pm, except for special dates (like April 15th)?

  • I had no idea. I've always lived in fairly small towns that don't have post offices at their airports. I figured the USPS just shut down at 5:00pm along with all of the other government offices.

    Learn something new every day.

  • Keep dreaming. Do you know how hard it is to collect on a small claim's court judgement? They just ignore the summons, they ignore the judgement and then it's up to the winner to try to collect. You'll spend more than $35 trying to collect.
  • 80% of all rebates are never redeemed. Now, common sense says that as the value of the rebate increases, so does the likelihood of redemption, but it doesn't increase as quickly as you might think. Throw in another roadblock (an incorrect rejection, etc.)and the number of actually redeemed rebates drops even further. It's not strictly a scam, but go in with your eyes open.

    On a related note, while comparison shopping on yahoo, I found an outfit which sells stuff at way too high a price, but will rebate you the FULL PRICE of the item, minus shipping. We're not talking Sony Wegas, but lots of wal-mart sort of stuff. Haven't tried it, I'm just too timid. I guess their whole business model is "play the float"?
  • Not only that, they get that valuable info whether or not they choose to redeem your rebate as they should. This is one reason it ticks me off so bad to be burned on rebate deals, like I was recently after the manufacturer refused to honor a $75 rebate on a new PC - and this is a large and well-known company. I'm rapidly coming to believe that consumers almost never get rebates, since I'm maybe 3 for 25 over the past few years.

    At the very least, rebates have been weakened to the point that they no longer affect my buying decision. It's more like buying the product and a lottery ticket than any sort of assurance of saving money...
  • I told her that that was not clear on the rebate form and we started the arguing process,but she was not going to see it my way. I write this because I am tired of seeing the mail in rebate programs sucking us all in.

    If they try this scam of "we really meant this", please refer them to the legal doctrine of contra proferentem, a canon of construction in contract law that counsels in favor of construing ambiguities in contract language against the drafter.

    (this doctrine is refered to, in cases by several US courts from the first circuit to the eleventh.)

    If you *really* want to confuse them, quote the phrase it dervives from, viz. verba chartarum fortuis accipiuntur contra proferentum, the words of a contract are construed more strictly against the person proclaiming them

    IANAL, btw :)
    --

  • This is the stuff of which class action suits are made. If the conduct you experienced was a simple error, then that really should be the end of it.

    However, if there actually is a broad, systemic and planned breach of contract (and with it, FTC violations for false advertising and the like), this would be bad. There are a host of firms, mostly in Illinois (don't ask me why), but they are anywhere, that do exclusively class action commercial work such as this. They go after large companies and chains who have engaged in penny-sales tax kiting, failure to pay small rebates and the like, and they get settlements.

    Its no so much that the real plaintiffs get "justice," ultimately they end up getting at most what little bits they would have gotten before -- its that the companies are penalized, sometime severely, and thus dramatically deterred from their bad acting.

    If you discover that this wasn't accidental, or that it seems to be happening with an unnatural frequency to you and others -- there are people who will happily work the problem without cost to you.
  • Unless you are a college student who only makes less than $25,000 a year because research only pays minimum wage, and you can't take on a third job along with going to school full time...

    Actual earnings are not a valid judge of a person's worth.

    Doug
  • I mean they've never made much sense to me. Seriously what's the point, asides from confusing customers over the price of an item and generally creating hassals like this, which hurt the company's image, what does a rebate program accomplish. The only logic behind rebates that I can see is they basically allow retailers to advertise very low prices and not honor what the ads claim. With that in mind I've never let the price after rebate effect a purchase decision, if I can't afford it at retail (or it's just not worth it) then I won't buy it, if they want my business they'll legitimatly lower the price to something I'm willing to pay. There are two reasons for this thinking, first if I go through the effort to fill out the rebate forms and mail them in I can at best expect a six week turnaround time on the rebate. By the time I get the rebate it's lost all relation to the actual purchase as so many other transactions have come between them. The second reason is simply because of the potential hassals if a rebate, especially a large one, gets rejected. If something I'm already planning to buy happens to have a rebate attached, and it's worth more than the time it'll take to send in, then I'll send it in and forget about till the check shows up, which then feels like mana from heaven ;->

    Anyway like I was saying, rebates have always felt kinda shady to me. I can't help but wonder if their is a rebate formula, like the one used for automobile recalls, that marketers use when deciding whether or not a rebate program will be profitable, and takes into account at maximum number or rebates that they can fulfill. Honestly if this is the case would anyone here put it past rebate fulfillment companies to start denying claims once a rebate target has been reached? Like with the question asker for this topic, deny at first and give the rebate only on the second attempt with words of apology thrown in for good measure. I'd like to see some data on rebate fulfillment results and compare ease of fulfillment at the beginning of program to the end of a rebate, to see if the number of denied rebates that were later filled increases towards the end of a program. I wonder if such info is available to customers, probably not I suspect.

  • I bought Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewindale for my girlfriend for her birthday last October, I got it under the premise that I would get like $10-20 back (Iforget how much exactly) ... so I followed their damned instructions to the letter, mailed in the forms, and they sent me back a letter in the mail that said I had sent the wrong UPC code! (What the hell?) Of course, their instructions told me to send the *ORIGINAL* UPC code, so I could not do anything to prove that I had in fact sent the right UPC codes to them. Anyone else have this happen to them? I'm quite angry with Black Isle... argh.
  • When it comes to building a large list, consider warrenty cards. Many more people send those in, despite the fact that several major court cases have ruled that it is illegal to not honor a warrenty on the basis that the consumer has not mailed in a warrenty card. That's the reason that I never bother with them.

    I've pretty much quit sending them in too. On occasion I will send one in IF AND ONLY IF it's a business reply mail card AND it's a company that I might like to get a catalog from in the future. Quite frankly, I'm not going to pay 34c to add myself to someone's marketing list. Furthermore, I'm going to go out of my way to avoid getting on the marketing list for products that I wouldn't be interested in owning more of. Mostly this category includes all small kitchen appliances that cost less than $30 (which always come with a warranty card). I don't want to get junk mail about great opportunities to buy these products, I just buy them when the previous one breaks. I will however, send in the cards for some of the electronic items that I purchase, that's because I'm interested in these items and do like to know what new products are avaliable and what features they have.
    _____________

  • Please tell me you didn't bought an extended warranty with it.

    I've actually had some very good experiences with the Best Buy extended warranty. Granted, I wouldn't have purchased it for something as mundane as RAM, but I did get the extended warranty on my cell phone which I got at BB. Of course, with something like a cell phone I had a reasonable expectation that I would sooner or later drop/break the thing and the warranty on cell phones there covers battery memory. Sure enough it happened, after I'd had the thing for about 5 months I dropped it and busted off the antenna. I took it back to the service counter at the store and they took care of things right away. The only questions they asked were "Is grey alright? We're out of blue ones." and "Would you like a new battery as long as we're doing this?". I couldn't have been more impressed. All told it took less than 20 minutes for him to program my new phone and change my ESN with my phone company.
    _____________

  • Lately, I've had a few bad experiences as well. It seems they use patience as a litmus test to decide if you should really get your rebate.

    For example, I picked up a intel hub at CompUSA because of their "half-price hubs" rebate. Just a little 4-porter, but the price break made it much cheaper than its competitors. I got back a postcard that said they couldn't fulfill my rebate because I didn't provide my street address - I receive mail at a post office box. Ridiculous. They're mailing me the rebate, not hand delivering it. Unless they really want profiling info and sending the rebate as a second priority.

    This postcard had a URL, and an 800 number. I called the number, and got to a message that essentially said "If you mailed your rebate less than 8 weeks ago, it isn't in the system. If you mailed it over 8 weeks ago, please hold for 2 hours..."

    The URL was little better. It only had a form, where you had to even supplwhich rebate this was for, fill out a text box, and someone would get in touch with you. I actually got 2 emails that said that my rebate was being processed, and I should receive it shortly.

    Of course, I still haven't seen it since then, and that was about 2-3 weeks ago...

  • As a side note, I recently purchased a logitech mouse from Best Buy using a gift card of theirs that I got for christmas. A few weeks down the road, I get this letter from Best Buy saying something to the effect of, "sorry we screwed up, here's a free $10 gift card."

    I was like, "eh?" I certainly don't remember having any problems buying that mouse. Still, it's a free $10. However, I am keen to point out that it still works out in their favor, since Best Buy is in the habit of selling electronics and appliances, not $10 items, so I still have to pay them some cash. Oh well. I was thinking of buying another one of them mice (optical wheel mouse, very nice) for my laptop as well.

  • Haha, nice subtle WarGames reference. :P
  • I would bet that the retailer would prefer a straight price cut to a rebate. They would sell more stuff that way. I think retailers probably participate in rebate scams reluctantly.

    It differs by what you are selling, but very often retailers don't pay for what is on the shelves until they sell it. If they had actually bought it, they could choose to drop the price to an unprofitable level just to get back the shelf space, but then they have to have capital tied up in inventory, so they are usually willing to trade that control for not having to pay up front.

    On top of that, the retailer often enters into some agreement for under what terms they can return items to the distributor or manufacturer, who pays shipping, etc.

    The upshot of all this is that the retailer will probably be on your side, but they are trapped. They probably see the rebate scam as a much more inefficient way to clear the shelves of a slow-moving product, that endangers their reputation and turns off buyers to the store in general, but they just don't have a choice.

    If enough people do as you did, and force the retailer to eat the rebate cost, the retailers may start refusing the rebate deals from the manufacturers.
  • Rebates suck. How come thy just can't lower the price?? Makes sense to me. That's why I like when Micro Center offers the instant rebates.
  • If you read the business press long enough to see an article/interview/how-to on rebates, it's stated plain as day that rebates are an attractive alternative to actual price cuts because only about 10% ever bother to file for the cash.

    Whose fault is that, the customers who make a stupid buying decision based on the after-rebate price, but then don't bother to send it in? Or the business people who exploit that tendancy? If your answer is the latter, then there will be a lot more wrong with the world that you will know what to do with, as exploiting one human weakness or another is the basis of most of our society.

    Recognize that while rebates are genuine offers, they are simply bait for the purchase of the product. It's sad, but most of humanity will be swayed by the second of these two offers:

    "You can finance the amazing low $10,000 price of the amazing troll-in-ator at only 5% per annum! OR! If you would PREFER to have COLD HARD CASH, we'll give you $500 cash back on every purchase!!!! (10% OAC)"

    Or rather, it is not the function or substance of the price reduction that is important to the american "consumer" it is the form, fashion, or style of the discount that matters most. Getting cash back from a big corp is the average american's wet dream, so rebates sell like hot cakes even if the average rebatee loses in the end.
  • for these companies to farm out the rebate programs to 3rd party vendors.
    "...whether these rebates are only a scam by companies to get people to buy the products due to the advertised after-rebate prices, and then they figure that most people won't submit the rebate requests to begin with and for those that do, they will make it as difficult as possible to receive the promised rebate money." I've had the same experience - OFTEN! - and have fairly extensive experience dealing with this crap. The explanation for this finally came from a marketdroid at work when we were about to offer one of these ourselves. It IS a scam - just legal based on the fine-print of the law.
  • I had a similiar problem with atlas -- I bought one of their modems and just flat out never recieved the 40$ rebate ... I didn't bother pursuing it, but I did learn the only way to win is not to play the game.
  • GRR: an hour reading reading Marx's Communist Manifesto [ualberta.ca] (available, more generally, through The Guttenberg project [gutenberg.net]) to do up a reply and it gets shot down by the lameness filter.

    You can find my reply at: my ISP's customer web site [telus.net], or (my home machine [bcgreen.com]. (exactly as I was going to submit it)
    --

  • I frequently find that Best Buy (and I am sure there are other stores that do this) will advertise a price for an item, taking off the amount of the rebate. For example, if an item is priced at $50, and there's a $10 rebate, the advertised price is $40. The catch is that the $10 rebate is already expired at the time that the advertisement is printed. They will then make the excuse that the rebate is offered by the manufacturer, not by them, and so they are not responsible. But the rebate says on it very clearly what its valid dates are. Rebates appear to be a way to sucker someone into buying something that they would probably not buy at the higher price. When the rebate does not actually materialize, well, you already have the product, you've already started using it, and it was just $10 after all, so you might as well keep it. I expect that most consumers 1) forget to send in the rebate form, 2) if they do send it in, forget that they have done so, so when no rebate comes, they don't actually notice, or 3) realize that the rebate has not shown up, but figure it's just not worth their time and trouble to pursue any further. So, for the price of the ink to print "with a $20 rebate", they are able to jack up the price by $20, and almost nobody really minds. Perhaps if more people would run these rebates down and make them pay up, perhaps we'd get prices that actually reflect the value of items, and not what some marketing goon thinks that they can squeeze out of the half-awake buyer.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Nothing to do with 'human nature,' omae. But I'm a big believer in the concept that humans are hunter-gatherers, and are two meals removed from reverting to that in every way. "Lord of the Flies" style, if you will. It always amused me to see how much description went into the weaponry of the navel vessel who returned the kids to Civilization; an interesting comment.
  • Exactly; everybody gets what they require, and in turn contributes whatever they're able; it's trade in it's purest form, as opposed to commerce. You're not making the exchange for personal gain or profit, you're making the exchange for the good of the community. But it's still trade, unless there's a class who collects everything, then redistributes it, in which case it's no longer Communisim. :-)
  • Is there something wrong with the idea of the exchange of goods or services for different goods or services? You know, trade? One of the things that allowed the creation of civilization as we know it?
  • If you want to go by that stringent of a defintion, Communisim can never exist as soon as you involve humans. If Oleg grows potatos, he's going to want soemthing from Dmitry in exchange for them, believe you me. Read George Orwell's "Animal Farm" for further cynicism. :-)
  • Communisim simply weights the scale; instead of, say, one pig always costing two chickens, modified by a) how many pigs there are and b) how many chickens there are, as in Capatalisim/free market, Communisim either a) sets down absolute prices (as in the USSR) or modifies the scale to 'whatever you need in exchange for whatever you can give,' as in True Communisim. More or less, at least. But when you get right down to it, when Ogg's in his cave with some grubs, and Thok's in his cave with some pointy stones, one day Ogg's going to realized that instead of trying to take Thok's pointy stones, it's easier to give him some grubs and ask for a stone. And since all Thok knows how to do is make spears, not harvest grubs, it benefits him more to do the trade than to kill Ogg and try to take the few grubs he had on hand. Open Source is a perfect example of how this doesn't work in real life; take a look at the percentage of people who really do contribute back to something they download, instead of flaming the coder who quite clearly says 'it's not even alpha' when it doesn't run. Or the number of projects that do the same thing, because there's ego involved. Or the abandoned projects, because the average person wants all the benefits and none of the cost; that's why it's called 'free as in beer.'
  • I don't buy from companies that offer rebate promotions, because it is pretty much a scam. The longer they have your money, the more money they make. There is no incentive to give your money back in a timely manner, if at all.

    After all the fallout for the Iomega rebate stuff, which really was the start of popularizing the use of rebates, I steered clear.

    The only way to not get burned is to not participate--meaning don't buy one that has a rebate. If you buy one that has a rebate and don't participate with their rebate program, you are just helping reinforce the perceived effectiveness of the program (the ratio of people that request the rebate to those that don't).

    If you still want to buy from people that do rebates, then for christ sake, don't include the rebate in the price of the item. Just because a $50.00 item is $10.00 AFTER REBATE doesn't mean the item is $10.00. The item is actually $50.00, plus a chance that it could be less, only if you jump through a bunch of hoops and complain enough, then add the cost of money (interest, etc.). If you value your time and your cash flow, its not a good deal.

    -k
  • I'm beginning to wonder if this is just a case of bad luck or whether these rebates are only a scam by companies to get people to buy the products due to the advertised after-rebate prices, and then they figure that most people won't submit the rebate requests to begin with and for those that do, they will make it as difficult as possible to receive the promised rebate money."

    Gee, do you think that might be the case? Well duh. Rebates have always been that kind of scam, and on every product, not just computer equipment. Most people don't bother to cut coupons, much less turn in their receipts for rebate money. They've always been based on the idea that people will jump at the apparently low price but never bother to ask for their money back. That's why some states have truth in advertizing laws that don't let businesses publish after rebate prices, or only publish them in smaller type than the tag price.

  • Say that the product costs $100 to manufacture, package, distribute and retailer percentage.

    The product is sold at $150 with a $50 rebate.

    The rebate takes (in average) 4 weeks to be processed.

    That means that all the profit is from investing that money during those 4 weeks.

    Putting it in the bank would get you (just guessing) 8% * 4/52 = 0.59% - not a very good profit margin. So they had to invest the money somewhere else where the returns were bigger (but so were the risks) - the stock market.

    Now the stock market is in a down-turn, which means thei're losing money (or getting that 0.59% profit)......

  • You are correct. Rebates are a simple way to A) have a low "advertising price" and B) get people to pay the full price. As you correctly stated, the redemption rate is very low. Only when you reach a $100 rebate, will you eventually see a 60-70% redemption rate. For amounts below that redemption varies from 10-25%. In other words, 75-90% of customers who thought they are getting a good deal, have indeed paid full price. And yes, I truly hate rebates too, which is why I rather to to pricewatch.com and buy the OEM model and don't wait for months to get the rebate. However, somtimes the deals are just too good (I got a 45GB WD HDD for $99 after 2 rebates). KD
  • This is exactly it. I worked for a Marketing firm for a brief time and one of the best methods of sales was to offer a rebate or some sweepstakes type thing, explains the content behind a lot of websites. The percentage, as the firm said, was that only 3% of consumers redeem their rebate coupons. And if it is a somewhat hassle most people forget about it. Although, by the law if one follows all the rules, which cannot be outrageous, a rebate or prize is to be awarded. Most likely, I am speculating, some companies are making it harder to redeem rebates with those letters of disqualification, hoping people will give up. But with a person following up with a phone call or letter they have to pony up the dough since legally they will be in the wrong if they dont. Just my thoughts.
  • They probably hire people at minimum wage to process rebate requests for hundreds of different programs.

    They get confused. The management does not mind because they procably get paid by request handled, whether it's paid or not. The company 'giving' the rebate does not mind if it's more difficult because they pay out less money.

    If it can be shown as an intentional pattern, you may see something from an attorney general's office.

  • There's an old saying, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence".

    I don't really believe the majority of rebates are out to rip us off. I think the problem is more that most companies are not setup to handle rebates, and don't want to pay for outsourcing them. So, we basically get an inexperienced company, with $3.50/hour employees, who don't know what they're doing.

    Some states are trying to pass laws that require all rebates to be "instant" rebates, which means they take the price out at the register. This makes it easier for the consumer, and makes the store have to deal with the company, which they are more typically setup for (since they already have the infrastructure in place for sales rep, bulk ordering, etc).

    Having been "burned" in the past by DirectTV, I find the best thing you can do is not buy products that require a mail-in rebate. If that's not avoidable, be SURE to make a copy of what you sent, and date it. Stick it in a prominent place where you pay bills, whatever, so you can be reminded to look for the rebate. Make a note of the phone number for checking on the rebate (most have these), and how many weeks to expect the check in. And if it's late, don't hesitate to pester them. They're customer service is there to make *you* happy. And if *you* aren't happy, make waves.

    If you see legislature in your area requiring instant rebates, vote for it. This the best deal for us, as consumers.

    One final consideration. Some rebates JUST AREN'T WORTH IT. If you get a $5 rebate on a pack of CDRs, and you're a consultant charging $75 an hour, is it really worth the more than 4 minutes it's going to take you to deal with the rebate garbage? It may be just cheaper to eat the $5 than the time lost messing with bogus mail-in rebate plans.

    -- jcwren

  • I've had similar experiences -- more often than not the check never arrives and I have to write follow up letters. I make sure to keep copies of the relevant documentation.

    I'm not sure what your question is, though. It reminds me of the Ask Slashdot a few days ago [slashdot.org] where the guy basically asked, "My operating system doesn't have good internationalization or support for Microsoft data formats. I refuse to use any of the software that does do these things. What should I do?"

    The Microsoft EULA is more complicated though. There is a genuine question as to who is responsible for those rebates. (I don't think they ever expected to give any.) Advertising a rebate and then ystematically ignoring responses is inexcusable.

  • What companies are counting on is that you will forget you even sent the rebate in. What I do is when I buy something with a rebate on it, I promptly follow all instructions and look at the promised date for fulfillment. I then flip through the rebate tracking calendar I keep on my desk and write down on the promised date what the rebate is for, any contact number for the fulfillment agency and the date I am sending it in.

    As I recieve checks in the mail I flip through the calendar and mark out the entry on there. If I reach a date and the entry has not been marked out, I promptly call the company and complain about the rebate. When they give me another promised date I transfer the information from the date I am on to the new promised date and make a note that I have contacted them once.

    I follow this procedure until I get a check or if I go through 3 contacts with no check, I usually send off a e-mail to the FTC [ftc.gov] complaining about the company.

    While this process is time consuming, it makes sure you get your money.
  • They want to know about consumer complaints, and this seems like a breach of contract to me. If this happens a lot (and it probably does), the company can and should get into legal trouble for it.

    Also, many stores now have the annoying habit of listing their prices with rebates included. If I get to the checkout and the rebate doesn't apply or looks like too much hassle, I don't buy the item and just leave it with the cashier.

  • They are clearly borrowing money from you (rebate) taking that money, loaning it out at 19% or higher interest rates during the period in which you should get your rebate. Theres no other reason why your mail would not reach them within 5-7 days, 1 day to process, and 1 day to cut the check. This is truly one way the companies are increasing their cash... Cyberrebates.com is all about that.. also they probably estimate a certain percentage of rebates will never get sent in, on time , or at all as well. so a rebate isn't always worth as much as is stated.
  • . . . and sue in Small Claims Court. They'll spend more than $35.00 to fly a corporate drone to the trial, or, more likely, just pony up the damn money.
  • I've had similar expereinces. My last was with a USR 56K modem, when not only was I rejected for the rebate, AND the free upgrade to V.90...

    Ever since then I ignore rebates. I can't stand it when stores put the rebate IN the price of stuff, such as Best Buy, which listed a 19" monitor at a great price... But read the fine print, it's after REBATE.

    Look at the actual sale price you are going to be charged AT the register. Buy the best item at the best price. If you end up getting a rebate, great, but don't count on it.

    Companies offer rebates because they expect most people won't fill them out and send them in.. They probably now reject all forms because most of them won't bother to complain...

    At this point, I view rebates as a scam. If you want to impress me, take the amount OFF the price!

  • Just wait for someone to have the item on sale without the need for rebates. If the company could afford to sell you the product for the reduced rate and intended on making good on the offer with no hassles, they would have simply lowered the price. Rebates are a way to draw people to the store to buy other merchandise while they are there. The money lose in awarding rebates is recovered by making it as difficult as possible to get the actual rebate check for those people that actually remember to send in the proper paperwork. Companies haev no real motivation to ever mail out rebate checks, which accounts for why half the time you send them out, you don't recieve them. By the time the check is supposed to arrive 12 weeks later, most people haev forgotten about it. If someone should remember and is willing to take the time to make the phone calls or write letters to the company about it, they will surely honor your request to avoid bad press, but now you've devoted more time than you ever wanted to just to save a few dollars. My advice is to stay away from rebates altogether. They all have a catch, and it's not worth the aggrevation.

  • Welcome to the business world (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 11, 2001 @12:37PM (#440050)

    I'm beginning to wonder if this is just a case of bad luck or whether these rebates are only a scam by companies to get people to buy the products due to the advertised after-rebate prices, and then they figure that most people won't submit the rebate requests to begin with and for those that do, they will make it as difficult as possible to receive the promised rebate money

    Welcome to the crooked world of standard, everyday business practices. Almost every industry has some way of ripping you off. Next time you go to a supermarket, take a look at just how many products have scaly schemes worked out to get around the consumers right to the "implied warranty", and to make it as unlikely as possible that people will actually return broken products (e.g. I bought a fan recently, and in the fine print somewhere is a clause that I have to keep the box if I want to return it - this of course is a load of junk, as I am entitled to the implied warranty unconditionally under law *as long as I don't make other arrangements with my dealer when I bought the product* - and I most certainly did not agree to that before I walked out with the fan - but they know that the vast majority of people are going to throw away the boxes, and the tiny minority who know what they're doing is wrong don't care enough about the price of a fan to actually hire lawyers about it - so they essentially get away with not having to honour any warranties at all! (or at least, far less than the rate of failure of the product))

    The companies you mention pretend they made an honest mistake - "whoops" - so about 80 to 90% of the people on whom they made "honest mistakes" just decide "who cares", and they get away with it. Or the long distance companies that accidentally switch you. The line between businesses and con artists is not always so clear.

  • Re:Rebate handling often farmed out (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 11, 2001 @12:46PM (#440051)
    About 10 years ago, I worked for a "fulfillment" firm in "Young America" for a very short time. Interesting operation. It worked on the home sweatshop model. You were hired as a "contractor", not an employee.

    The qualifications were: type at 50 wpm, and be desperate enough to work for a pittance. Most of the lucky participants were single mothers. They loaned you a 286 PC to take home. You went to their warehouse "offices" and picked up a box of n thousand rebate forms/enclosures. You took these home and plunked down at the kitchen table. You typed the information for each into a template form (day-glo green on black) which periodically saved the database onto a floppy disk... which you returned when you went back for another "box".

    If I recall, the take was something like $15/thousand rebates. Needless to say, at that rate, you didn't spend too much time on any one rebate. Anything that wasn't *instantly* right, or didn't fit into the boxes in the template, you reject in a nanosecond.

    Fascinating look at the sleazy truth of the "fulfillment industry". All at sub-minimum wages, no benefits, no longevity, you paid for gas and any medical bills from all the typing. All designed and operated by shadowy sleaze-balls. A much under-studied phenomenon -- yet another wonder of the corporate society.

  • Because they know most people, like me, toss the rebate in the trash. Rebates are a marketing gimmick meant to be able to say "35$ off!" on the packaging or in a flier. They're not evidence that the companies price point is suddenly 35$ less.

    Bingo. Last figures I saw said that less than 2% of people actually send in rebates. Therefore, the companies play the numbers and expect to do well out of it. So instead of it being a $35 rebate, it actually works out to be a $0.70 rebate overall -- just as long as people don't send them in.

    Some stores are now doing checkout rebates, which will change the game again. And some companies just did rebate schemes to get some marketshare -- Broderbund/Mattel/The Learning Company are prime examples of this -- for a long time they were giving their products away (effectively -- they were reducing profits on them to zero), altering the way the market worked, and creating a massive inflation in the home productivity segment for 1999. Which popped heavily about half way through 2000.

    Beware rebates. And remember; about half of the cost of anything you buy goes to the distributor. So figure that in too, and you'll start seeing where the money goes.

    Simon

  • Rebates == fraud (Score:3)

    by tbo ( 35008 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @12:16PM (#440053) Journal
    This is what my (former) employer did. We advertised a $30 rebate for our product. When customers bought the product, they found out that the expiry date on the rebate had already past. This was intentional--we advertised a rebate even though we knew the coupons were expired. If the customer called to complain, we told them the rebate had been "extended".

    With this system, only about 30% of people sent in the rebate, but we could advertise the product as "Available for the low, low price of $69* (* fine print: with mfg. rebate)"

    Our sales and marketing VP was a subhuman piece of shit, which is why we did crap like this. I hope he personally gets sued for fraud over it...

    Anyway, the moral of the story is that rebates are basically a fradulent way of deceiving customers. Never factor the rebate discount into your price comparisons, and try to avoid rebate-giving companies all together.

  • also price discrimination (Score:3)

    by wendy ( 42400 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @12:12PM (#440054) Homepage
    It's also a crude form of price discrimination. Even if they didn't care about the marketing info, they'd give you a long form to fill out just to make it more difficult to claim the rebate.

    By adding nuisance effort to getting a discount (whether filling rebate forms or clipping coupons), retailers can effectively sell at a higher price to those put off by the nuisance and a lower (but still profitable) price to more who might otherwise pass up the product.

  • Rebates are a government conspiracy!!! (Score:3)

    by White Shade ( 57215 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:48AM (#440055)
    Isn't it obvious?

    When you buy anything which comes with a rebate form, you're paying full price, **including sales tax** on the **full** price.
    Herein lies the conspiracy: If the product was simply sold at a reduced price, the sales tax would be lower and hence the government would get less money!
    But no, instead, the vile suits decide to tempt people with the thought of getting money back, rather than the more sensible reduced price, and hence guarantee that the government gets sales tax on the $35!

    it's so obvious!

    hehe

  • 1 word, float (Score:3)

    by nutty ( 70104 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:53AM (#440056) Homepage

    Companies make more money the longer they can hold onto your money. It's a trend from olden times. It's how banks work. It's how credit cards work. By holding the money, you can make money, by loaning it out, or (which currently would require sk1llz) investing it in the market. Because they always have cash in transfer, they have money to loan or invest continuously. This is a GOLDMINE.

    And it applies to the new economy as well. How do you think paypal makes their money? All the real cash is from reinvesting and using profitable money management for the millions (billions?) of dollars that they have at any given moment.

    And that is the whole purpose of rebates. I can't recall where it was from, but a friend of mine told me about a company that would give you a full manufacturers rebate even if you bought the product straight from them. Basically you would get the product for free, by lending the company money for 4-6 weeks or whatnot. During this timeframe, they can make a killing off of collecting all the 10$ from all the people who bought it to amass a million or so, and then lend that out with interest.

    Well that's my take on it.
    /nutt

  • Re:My experiences... - I have a theroy (Score:3)

    by OmegaDan ( 101255 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @11:49AM (#440057) Homepage
    I have a theroy -- it sounds like alot of companies are hiring contractors to do this stuff ... What if the company that handles the rebate gets to keep a portion of the pot they don't give back ?

    It has to work like this : Company X hires company Y for rebate R ... Company X cuts a check to company Y for C(r)*E(r) dollars where C(r) is the rebate ammount and E(r) is the expected return rate ...

    In all likelyhood -- the companies split whats left of the pot ... this is VERY common in alot of industries -- HMO's let doctors keep half of their unused specalist budgets -- some movie studios split the remainder of their music budget with the music producer (known a couple music producers in my life).

    If the rebate company had no stake in the rebate, its primary concern would be to execute the rebate efficently, not to save money.

    Just a thought

  • Rainmaker (Score:3)

    by KurdtX ( 207196 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:51AM (#440058)
    Sound like someone from the rebate businees has stolen the plot from the movie The Rainmaker [imdb.com]

    Kurdt

  • Just normal stuff (Score:3)

    by Prophet of Doom ( 250947 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:59AM (#440059)
    This just doesn't happen with software, there is a lot of data supporting the fact that rebates are less expensive for the company than direct price cuts.

    A big part of the thinking comes from the fact that if you make the rebate difficult enough, a large chunk of people will just forget about it. Then you figure in the number of people who either lose their receipts or can't collect the required forms (Best Buy is really good about not having your particluar rebate card in the store). If you add in your experiences then you can easily see that a $20 rebate costs the company a lot less than a $20 price cut.

    I also had a friend who used to sell radar jammers out of the back of automobile magazines. He claimed that he had about 20% of his products returned (even though he offered a lifetime warranty) whether he shipped working units or whether he shipped empty boxes with a couple of working LEDs. It is just business strategy, people want convenience. You have to give them the appearance of saving money but make it take up a little of their time.

  • Here's what I did (Score:4)

    by lls ( 86556 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @11:11AM (#440060)
    Happened to me a while back. I sent a complaint letter to the Consumer Fraud division of the Minnesota (where I live) Attorney General's office. I cc'd the rebate center, Intuit corparate Customer Support, and corporate Sam's Club Customer Support (I bought the software at Sam's). Within days I had received two rebate checks (I only cashed one). A few weeks later I received a call from the woman at Intuit who had created the rebate program. She apologized profusely about the mixup. She said she had received three faxes about my case from Sam's, and people in Intuit. A few days later I received a third rebate check too.

  • Welcome to the club... (Score:4)

    by Pollux ( 102520 ) <speter AT tedata DOT net DOT eg> on Sunday February 11, 2001 @11:08AM (#440061) Journal
    Here's what happened to me:

    About a year ago, I had the opportunity to purchase from Best Buy (first big mistake) 16 MB SIMMs for $15 ($30 minus the $15 mail in rebate). After clearly asking the sales rep and clearly getting a response of being clearly showed on the rebate slip that there was no limit to how many I could buy with the rebate, I purchased four of them, figguring I'd get a $60 rebate.

    After finding out that there were no more rebate slips in the store, I was told to call a phone number and one would be mailed out to me. I called the phone number, waited three weeks, and got nothing. Afraid that the offer was expired, I went back to Best Buy to find another rebate slip, only to discover that the offer was expired and no more were available. I gave my predicament to them, and basically got the, "We can't help you...you're screwed," shoulder shrug.

    Finally, one more week passes and I get the mail-in rebate slip. After singing praises to myself, I found out that there was only one day left where I could mail in the rebate slip before the offer was invalid. After hurrying to try and find the original boxes and putting the envelope together and squeezing in time with everything else, I rushed to the Post Office at 11:55 PM and asked them to make sure it was postmarked for that night. I thought that was the end.

    Another month and a half go by before I receive the rebate. Expecting a nice $60 deposit into my Bank Account, I discover that I got a lousy $15. Angry, I called up the company, only to receive what very much sounded like a secretary that was working out of a dead-end office in some corner-closet basement in the office building, telling me that, "Alright, I'll jot your complaint down here and will get back to you." After telling her that she had yet to even find out my name or my phone number, she gave a small sigh and grudgingly asked what my contact info was. Any hopes of seeing the other $45 dollars were shot to pieces at that point, but I waited an extra 60 days in grave hopes that I would get a call back or another check (before the original rebate check expired). After three and a half months passed from my original purchase of the RAM, I gave up.

    All I see in mail-in rebates is an opportunity for a company to make a sale without having to fully explain their unwillingness to uphold their end of the bargain. I mean, it's kind of like holding a "parking-complex deal" where you and your dealer both stand in the shadows, one with the suitcase of money, the other with the goods. If you're dumb enough to pass the suitcase over to your partner without bothering to BE ABSOLUTELY SURE that he's not going to run with the money, you're going to lose the money.

    They jip you, and unless you get some big-name consumer advocate to help you out, you're going to get the bum-rap.

  • some interesting links (Score:4)

    by paulschreiber ( 113681 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @03:06PM (#440062) Homepage
    i used google to track down an article i read, and in the process i found tips #1 [myrebates.com] and site #2 [therebatezone.com].

    Anyway, I found Cecil Adam's column, Why are rebate checks drawn on obscure banks in the middle of nowhere? [straightdope.com], which is a really interesting read.

    A few weeks ago I got a check for 25 cents from Illinois Bell. The check was drawn on a bank in Lake Lillian, Minnesota. Do you know how obscure Lake Lillian is? (Of course you do. You know everything. I'm just asking rhetorically.) It's so obscure it's not in the Minnesota key to my road map book, which includes such metropolises as Dundas, population 422. It's so obscure the person I talked to at the Minnesota tourism office couldn't find it on her computer (she said to call back when Jerry gets back from lunch).

    [snip]

    Paul

  • My experiences... (Score:4)

    by snellac ( 314920 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:54AM (#440063)
    I experienced problems with a rebate program offered by Logitech that was called "Buy More...Save More" and was offered to consumers during the period of July 15,2000 to October 15,2000.The amount of rebate was based on how much product you purchased at one time.The form that you needed had to be downloaded off the net from Logitechs site and filled in accordingly with bar codes attached and copies of invoices,the normal requests.The form header clearly reads to the consumer as follows: "BuyMore...SaveMore!""$200 of product=$70.00 Rebate" Buy 2 or more Logitech products:Totaling $50.00 or more Get a $10.00 rebate by mail Totaling $100.00 or more Get a $25.00 rebate by mail Totaling $200.00 or more Get a $70.00 rebate by mail. I thought this was pretty simple so I bought $232.00 of Logitech product from Buy.com all on one invoice. I was looking for a $70.00 rebate check in the mail after submitting all the paperwork. Well here comes my check nine weeks later and it is for $25.00. I said, must be a mistake so I called 1-800-741-1365 (Rebate Express) a division of the express group,they are a rebate processing center.The woman I spoke to informed me that the reason that I was shorted on the rebate was that each item had to be sold over $50.00 each and since the four wireless track balls were only $44.94 each and the cordless I-Touch keyboard was only $46.87,that the only rebate due me was for the four trackballs with a combined value of $187.48 which gets the $100.00 or more status and a $25.00 rebate. I told her that that was not clear on the rebate form and we started the arguing process,but she was not going to see it my way. I write this because I am tired of seeing the mail in rebate programs sucking us all in. I also want Logitech to know that I have nine workstations with there wireless products at each one....but all we be replaced with new product and all Logitech donated to others that don't have any,and that will keep nine users from purchasing Logitech products. Very slippery Logitech,we are catching on to your under handed ways and the consumer will prevail. By the way...cordless trackballs aren't worth a flip. Logitech does not even supply an email address for customers to write email to.

  • Rebate handling often farmed out (Score:5)

    by CarlPatten ( 6233 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @11:11AM (#440064)
    The worst temp job I ever worked was for a company (Company "T") handling a rebate program for a major PC manufacturer (Company "M"). If software/hardware companies are still farming this work out, no wonder the rebate programs are so bad!

    There were about 16 of us were in the cubicle farm doing data entry and taking calls from irate people wondering why their rebates were late. I estimated the temp churn at 25% per week. It's very likely that the person handling your rebate was on his/her first day.

    This company was handling about 12 different rebate programs, using a slower-than-molasses database that could be crashed by pressing a single wrong key and required 4 hours to rebuild.

    Since we were answering the phone as "Company M", we were not allowed to say "our computers are down" and thus had to B.S. our way through the call.

    As most of our callers were salespeople, they smelt the B.S. instantly and jumped into either sarcasm ("yeah, the check's in the mail, right?") or hostility ("let me speak to the manager, NOW!") The "manager" job rotated among the team.

    This hell was not entirely Company T's fault. Company T had to cut and mail the checks, but Company M hadn't sent us the money to pay the rebates! We were sitting on thousands of checks we couldn't send out because they wouldn't have cleared the bank.

    I lasted three weeks.

  • It's simple (Score:5)

    by GuNgA-DiN ( 17556 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:59AM (#440065)
    The purpose of a rebate is to gather marketing information so the company can spam you and sell your data to other companies. You got mad because they didn't fulfill their end of the deal. But, you are probably one of the few. Most people would just forget about it and chalk it up as a loss. I hate rebates. I'd rather spend the extra $10 up front than sell my soul to the marketing department. So you saved a measly $10! Big fucking deal! Your personal info alone must be worth at least $50 to them! Here's a tip: if you *must* claim a rebate, purposely mispell your name and see how much junk mail you start getting addressed incorrectly. Rebates are a carrot on a stick - trying to get to do what they want you to. Those little-old ladies who clip coupons out of the Sunday paper are in the same category. They spend 4 hours clipping coupons, and save a total of $5 in the grocery store - but the company now knows what types of ad they respond to, and what newspaper they read. If this is used in association with the "preffered shopper" card that most stores use - they also know the little-old ladies name, address, phone number and age too.

  • Too many fraudulent submissions (Score:5)

    by robl ( 53384 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @10:57AM (#440066)
    Apparently, rebate fraud is a real problem in the industry. It's not the fact that you did or did not purchase quicken. It's the fact that you may be one of those people who are making a rebate by scamming software companies.

    It used to work like this. Buy a piece of hardware which was offering a rebate, cut out the UPC code, and send the rebate in with upc code from box. Return product to store, complaining that it doesn't work. Get refund, and wait for rebate check. That was until Best Buy and others refused to take back returns if the UPC was not attached.

    Basically people started to figure out how to make a few hundred bucks by just cutting and sending UPC symbols. And that's why you have to go through the rebate center who's job is to make sure every rebate request follows the explicit rules of that particular rebate. And yes, they will just reject you if you didn't do everything exactly as they ask, like not highlighting the purchase on the receipt.

    And that's also why I don't like rebates, and stores that aggressively market rebates (like Best Buy) unless the instant rebates are given to you instantly, and at the register.

  • Simple... (Score:5)

    by glowingspleen ( 180814 ) on Sunday February 11, 2001 @11:08AM (#440067) Homepage
    It just furthers the Law of Rebates, that's why.

    Why do manufacturers decide to give rebates instead of sale prices? Simple: Because nearly the same number of people will buy the product (with full intentions of sending in the rebate), then promptly forget or decide it isn't worth the hassle when they get home. I believe I recently read that only 30% of people ever fill out rebate forms and actually send them in, but maybe I'm wrong.

    I send in a LOT of rebates, mostly because I check out deal websites and buy stuff that way. I've been keeping an Excel spreadsheet of them for about a year now, and I'd say that around 25% of my rebates arrive quickly, 50% arrive after several months, and 25% never arrive.

    So why would they send them back to you with a lame excuse? Because I'm sure about 50% of the people out there would just get fed up and decide it isn't worth the effort and the hassle of calling customer service and bitching them out. Sure, they'll complain to their friends about how they got screwed, but they'll give up or set the envelope aside for too long or let it get lost in the shuffle.

    Case in point: Western Digital had a 45gig HD for $190 with two rebates totalling $90. I bought two (one for the PC, one to upgrade my TIVO) and send in all four rebates. It took them 3 months to send my rebate form back with some minor note about how I had a UPC problem. I had to call, sit on hold for 30 minutes, and confirm that my UPC was good. Then it took them nearly another 3 months to send my checks. I got them yesterday, actually.

    Moral of story: Keep a chart, always photocopy before you send em in, and complain a lot if they never come. I don't know about you guys, but $90 + $90 is not cash I don't worry about getting back...

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