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Technology

Solar Power Hardware For The Home? 23

Posted by Cliff from the powering-the-sunshine-state dept.
angst_ridden_hipster writes: "OK, living in Southern California where the sun always shines (except this week) and the energy's getting scarce, the plan's become to put up a solar system at the new house. I'm well aware that there's no "economic sense" to buying a system like this -- even with the current rebates, it's more expensive than buying electricity elsewhere. It's more of a philosophical thing; I'd rather generate/buy expensive electricity than buy relatively cheaper electricity that results in more air pollution, etc. I recognize not everyone shares this philosophy, but that's not really what I want to discuss here. I want to talk hardware. In any case, I've been looking around online, and there's a lot of contradictory and incomplete information." Would some of you folks out there who happen to work with solar power hardware care to clear up some of the contradicitons?

"Based on what information I have been able to find, here's what I think I'll need:

Current usage is a squanderous 10kWH/day average. I'm figuring that a 1kW system would probably handle around half of that on sunny days. I figure doing a grid-tied system is probably the cheapest/easiest, and I'm not too concerned about maintaining backup power when the grid's down. (A grid-tied system basically pumps any energy that you generate and you don't use out onto the grid, turning your meter back... you sell to the Electric Co. In order to protect the line workers, it doesn't output any energy when the grid's down.) That leaves me with some consumer-oriented system like the Trace Engineering Sun Tie system, ten Siemens SR100 panels, plus cables, mounting hardware, lightning arrester, and some form of PV ground fault interrupters.

Is this a reasonable system? Does anyone know about better/cheaper/more-efficient configurations? Anyone have any suggestions and/or experience on this stuff?"
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Solar Power Hardware For The Home? More

Solar Power Hardware For The Home?

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  • Payback (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    To generate enough energy to offset the manufacturing process (including the effects of the pollutants produced as by-products) each cell has to operate for the equivalent of 4 years (assuming an average of 10 hours useful daylight per day across 4 seasons).

    Windmills, however...

  • If more medium-power devices had their own built in solar panels, I am sure they would be able to get enough energy to run. Most people when the go home turn on enough lights to charge most small devices. And when they aren't around there is probably enough light to charge the devices. Hmm, if only there was a set of solar panels for my Palm.

    Sure it is probably not the small device that are the problem, but you have to start somewhere and starting where it is easy is usually a good place.

  • Actually, there is. Sort of.

    Grab a charger at TechCenter Labs [aol.com], then wander over to Edmund Scientific [edmundscientific.com] for a solar battery charger. Reverse the leads & connect the two together and you have a solar powered charger for your Palm V/Vx. If you have another Palm, you could just charge NiCads I suppose.


    --
    If your map and the terrain differ,
    trust the terrain.

  • http://www.homepower.com/

    Also has a "rogues" gallery, of folks who have put solar power online, but haven't told the utility. Many utilities don't want to be anything but the supplier.
  • Over here in the UK a company called Maplin - a Radio Shack-u-like - (Link here) [maplin.co.uk] supply them for just over GBP 4.00 + tax. You need to rig a few together but you could easily power something like a Palm.

    If you mounted the cells on hinged plastic or whatever you could just fold out your array whenever you needed it.

  • I'd rather generate/buy expensive electricity than buy relatively cheaper electricity that results in more air pollution, etc.

    I understand your motivation, but are you aware that a solar cell takes more energy to manufacture than it will produce over its working life? Photoelectric cells are not the solution to pollution from conventional means of generating electricity.

  • Yeah we're getting into windpower in the UK (too) slowly. When we move house (projected 2 years) myself and the GF are going to try going over to at least partial wind power.
    I've convinced her on the windpower but the composting toilet and reed bed sewage treatment plant is going to take a little more persuassion. :)

    But we now have the problem that certain less enlightened members of our society think that windmills are a blot on the landscape and planning permission should be revoked on every damned one of them.
    This is opposed (one must presume) to the 27 coal fired power stations I can see from a particular hill near my parents home on a clear day.
    Some of these fsckwits even claim to be trying to protect the environment.

    Oh well, I suppose you can't educate pork.

    Ian

  • just because the act of producing electricity with solar panels is 'enviromentally friendly' doesn't mean the panels are....

    for example what kind of manufacturing processes are used, and how do they effect the environment?

    i haven't looked into this in a while, but i know a few years back, some of the processed used to make solar cells were pretty bad.

    don't mod this up as informative, there are no links.

  • Re:Pollution (Score:3)

    by Mr. Slippery ( 47854 ) <.tms. .at. .infamous.net.> on Friday February 16, 2001 @07:20AM (#430308) Homepage
    I understand your motivation, but are you aware that a solar cell takes more energy to manufacture than it will produce over its working life?
    Not true. It takes from one to several years [ecotopia.com] to break even, depending on the technology, but the claim that they take more energy than they put out is pure FUD.

    Also, if you're far enough away from the grid it can actually be cheaper to install a photovoltaic system than to run copper and get on the grid.

    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/

  • First.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You may have done this alreadym but before you spend a lot of money on solar panels, look at making the house as energy efficienct as possible. This will probably be more cost effective, and when you do install the panels, you will be generating an even greater portion of your energy needs. Energy Efficient means more than just compact flourescent lights and a programmable thermostat (although these will help a lot). Also consider: 1. Insulating and air sealing the house. While the insulation may not make much sense in Southern CA, eliminating drafts can help a lot when you do have to heat (or cool) the house. 2. Look at new appliances, such as maytags neptune washer. There are also energy efficient refrigerators and dishwashers. Although they may be expensive, they probably have a better payback than the solar panels you are installing. 3. New HVAC system. Look into high efficiency condensing furnaces and high SEER air conditioners. In your area, heat pumps work well. Geothermal is expensive, but it is has the best overall efficiency. 4. Consider active solar thermal systems for domestic hot water. 5. If you are building new or remodelling, look at integrateing passive solar heating, low-energy cooling, and daylighting elements into the new home. These are generally very cost effective. Also, new construction offers more opportunities to use better building techniques to control infiltration. Good Luck

  • I have a neptune washer and it's great. Not only is it quieter than a regular washer, it can hold a lot more clothes and has an energy usage rating 1/3rd that of a conventional clothes washer. It's well worth the $1K

  • Except most solar panels are guarunteed to output 90% power for at least 20 years.
  • From your comments above, I think you realize that from a purely economic basis, solar, in particular photovoltaics, don't usually make sense. On the other hand if you want to do this project just cuz you want to, have fun, and here's some thoughts.

    Efficiency: PV's output DC. Virtually every appliance you have uses AC, but that doesn't mean that they won't necessarily run on DC. Incandescent light bulbs will work on DC just fine- though they are very inefficient. Pumping the output of your PV array into an inverter to generate AC is a guaranteed source of inefficieny. Try to get as much as you can running off of DC- switch to a laptop that you can charge with the PVs, rig up some lighting with efficient bright white LEDs. You'll have to give up anything that uses a transformer- since by definition, they don't work at DC, but with some creativity, you should be able to bypass wall warts and the like with a custom power supply.

    DC has some other things to watch out for, especially at higher voltages- it can be more dangerous than AC- an arc has less chance to extinguish itself, so if you are switching high voltage, high current DC, you need special switches that will break an arc that is started on contact opening. Also, DC will cause your plugs and such to corrode faster, which can make high resistance connections, and possibly a fire hazard.

    I myself have considered a DC system in my home for reliability reasons- I get lots of short term outages, with the occasional long term outage. With a 12V system that powers my computers, I could battery back it up, and then use a simple generator set-up to take care of the longer outages, using a lawnmower engine and a car alternator. You could use a similar system, using PV's to charge up your batteries, with an AC system to take over charging when there is not enough sunlight to do the job.

  • I wish I had some good answers for you but I don't. I just moved into my first house and have been working toward solar power. Living in Central Florida, we have plenty of sun to spare. (Wind, too, but I'm sure the neighbors would be unhappy with a 75-foot tower in the backyard.) The question now is what am I going to do with it.

    I've replaced all my incandescent lights with fluorescent. (You'll be amazed at how much flourescent lighting will save you each month. Not only does it use fewer watts, it doesn't produce nearly as much heat). I've made sure there is plenty of insulation. I'm getting rid of the electric water heater and putting in a solar version. The 15-year-old electric dryer is being replaced with a natural gas version (yes, gas is expensive but it's not nearly as pricy as electrons). There are also a few more appliances (all over ten years old) I'd like to replace but I've already blown my monetary wads so to speak.

    I've been reading HomePower [homepower.com] for inspiration and ideas. While building a solar system from scratch sounds like the best way to go about it, what I really want is a kit being that this will be my first attempt. I want parts I know will work together and a clear path to setting everything up.

    There are a number of places that sell solar power kits [partsonsale.com] but none look, er, reputable. I have no reason to believe they aren't but they certainly look as though they are run out of someone's basement [getoffthegrid.com]. If would be great if I could walk into a local showroom and talk to someone.

    I like the configuration you are proposing and your usage isn't too far out of line. (I've gotten down to 7.5 KW a day.) Most of what I've heard about Trace and Siemens is good. They both have a very loyal following.

    Make sure you check out the DOE's Million Solar Roofs [doe.gov] web site. There is lots of good information there. Specifically, they have a state-by-state incentive guide [ncsu.edu] that tells what incentives are available from where and how to get your system subsidized by any number of public and private groups.

    Good luck. Once you get your system up and working, I'd love for SlashDot to follow-up with you.

    InitZero

  • in addition to power generation, might as well use a solar heater for your hot water. It will help cut down on electrical usage. You'll, still prolly want a electric one for storage and backup, but house I've seen with them, every is very pleased with the setup
  • That's an interesting point. Do you know where I can find the numbers behind it?

    (and, on the other hand, Gasoline and Coal generators have no such cross-over point.)
    bukra fil mish mish
    -
    Monitor the Web, or Track your site!

  • "I've replaced all my incandescent lights with fluorescent. (You'll be amazed at how much flourescent lighting will save you each month. Not only does it use fewer watts, it doesn't produce nearly as much heat)."

    But here in Minnesota, I should probably change out my fluorescents in the winter... I could use the extra heat with the increased cost of nat. gas. ;-)

    --
  • Good points. Thanks for the suggestions.

    I've done some of these things. The house is quite insulated. I have no air-conditioning, since I'm close enough to the ocean that it doesn't get above 85 degrees (F) very often. I almost never use the dishwasher, although, in fact, it may be more efficient than washing by hand.

    I have a Neptune washer. Dryer and Hot Water heater are natural-gas powered.

    Some things I could do: I could probably upgrade the refrigerator to a more energy-efficient version. I could scrap the web hosting that I do for non-profits. I could get rid of the security system.

    There are some power-related things that I can't avoid: my girlfriend has severe asthma, so we have to run air filters for her health.
    bukra fil mish mish
    -
    Monitor the Web, or Track your site!

  • I know that GE (I think) has a consumer model available article here [sculptors.com] It's an old article - couldn't tell you where they went with it but I plan on seriously looking into it myself this summer. They create clean, quiet power and are efficient. You may also consider upping your requirements from 1Kw - that is not enough for many devices even if only when they first power up.
  • The composting toilets I've seen run ~$1500(US). I could have my current throne gold plated for less than that, and still have enough to pay for water to flush the toilet with for several years...

    We now have the option to buy windpower off of the grid for a nominally larger fee than our standard electric. There is a growing bank of wind powered generators out here (MN), and you can buy the power from them in blocks. Rather nice.

    --
  • The main drawback I see to running 12V DC around the house, is you need to run big cables to keep the voltage drop from being a problem over longer distances...
  • seriously, they let you download the whole thing in pdf format, about 7 megs, I have been reading the thing for about 3 years. Also, on a serous system, pure solar isn't the way to go. Most of us use (R.E. peeps) use Solar/Wind systems. We also reduce our intake also. Replace all appliances with low power usage appliances and you save $$ on your solar/wind system.

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