How Would One Start A Career In The Gaming Industry? 25
Bullschmidt asks: "I'm currently a second semester senior at MIT. I will be graduating this term, and I'm looking to get into the gaming/computer graphics industry. I will admit that I have little experience with the gaming industry. I have done some 3D programming for NASA, as well as some for a small computer graphics company. I have taken the only graphics class at MIT, too. So how do I, a soon to be graduate from a high level school, get into the gaming industry, which typically requires 2-3 years experience for almost any job?"
Re:Redundant comment ... (Score:1)
Contacts Help (Score:1)
I was friends with someone at a game company. I'd met a couple of others at parties. I was looking for work, I begged for a job. They were looking for a "scripter". That got me an interview. The interview went okay, and I was in.
Anyhow, send resumes, even to those companies demanding 2+ years experience. If one of them's approaching a schedule squeeze, they might give you a try. And if you know someone who works for a game company, nudge them.
Re:Getting into the gaming industry (Score:1)
Re:Getting into the gaming industry (Score:1)
As for my personal qualifications, I like to think that really the one thing I lack is experience. I have no problems working LONG hours. I do it already. I get up everyday at 5:20 and keep going pretty late. I have worked in the web industry, which is also infamous for long weeks. Even as a summer job, I worked many a 10 hour day.
As for teams, I can comfortably say this is NO problem. While many can claim this, I feel that my rowing experience gives me a special claim to it. I spend many hours fighting the toughest mental blocks (ie ignoring the physical blocks!) with them. In rowing everyone must work together. The slightest deviation from the expected plan and technique causes the delicate house of cards (pardon the cliche) to come tumbling down. I guess my real question is how do I get my foot in the door? I'm trying to do some projects on my own, but its tough given my schedule.
As for location, well lets just say I'm from CA and love it. I can't wait to get back!
Re:Linear algebra (Score:1)
Don't? (Score:1)
The game industry is strongly cyclical as a whole, and as games get more and more expensive to make, the effect of a single flop is magnified, to the point where it can be enough to destroy a small to medium-sized company. So you can expect the same lack of job security you'd get working for a serious technology startup but without anything approaching the potential financial upside.
The very fact that people are (mostly) seriously discussing the idea of how to "break in" to the gaming industry with an MIT graduate says it all. With enough potential talent harboring that kind of groveling attitude, it's a buyer's market.
Linear algebra (Score:1)
I have heard that linear algebra is very useful to know if you are doing 3D engines and stuff of that nature. The more knowledgable the better. At least, according to my advisor. Can anyone verify this with actual experience?
Re:Linear algebra (Score:1)
Linear algebra is the mathematics of points, lines and vectors in n-space. Generally for games you are looking to manipulate points (the vertices of polygons) in 3space. Thus what you need is a fairly small subset of your average first term linear algebra course.
When I finally took Linear I had read *all* the graphics books on the subject and just had trouble "getting it". Taking the class cleared it all up. Just be warned: there is a *lot* of material in Linear that is probably not going to help you out writing a 3D game engine.
Submit an Application! (Score:1)
But how do you get them to hire you? Well, hopefully you went through an undergraduate program. Hopefully you knew you wanted in the industry and looked for classes that could be related (polygonal graphics, Artificial Intelligence, etc). And maybe even during the course of your Computer Science cirriculum you wrote a program featuring some of these concepts. All of this will be valuable to you, and to potential employers.
What should you keep in mind when looking for a job? Don't focus on development for a single platform. If you want to work with company A, and every game thats been made by A has only been on Dreamcast, thats no reason to assume that your PC programming skills are useless. Consoles are in the realm of NDA's, so nobody has experience off the bat. Plus, you never know where company A is looking to expand.
Bottom line is learn all you can and apply it in a presentable manner. Read stuff. Ask questions. Attend conferences. Make connections. Submit applications.
More Info Please (Score:1)
I am a computer systems engineer currently completing my thesis at University of Technology Sydney.
I've got about two and half to three years (proffesional - as in full time emplyoment) programming experience, and am really interested in game developing. Especially 3d engines and the like.
What are some possiblities for myself, where can I go, what companies do gaming out here?
Re:More Info Please (Score:1)
Re:Getting into the gaming industry (Score:1)
The first time you're asked to be in the office for 10-12 hour days, seven days a week for months on end to meet that all important deadline (or the company runs out of money and folds), romantic notions will be the furthest things from your mind
and then this:
I won't hire the most brilliant rookie 3D programmer in the industry if he doesn't have any social skills
It seems to me like the aim of a Game company is to destroy the few skills a rookie programmer could have left!
Honestly, I think the best avenue is to develop games for fun, as a passtime, that way one gets all the good bits and avoids all the bad ones of game developping.
Use Caution (Score:1)
I made the mistake. It took all the fun out of writing games. Oh well. It looks good on my resume, even though they lie through their teeth about me when they check previous employers.
Nah. I'm not the least bit bitter.
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RE:How one would start in the gaming industry (Score:1)
Bribery (Score:1)
On the realistic side... stick your foot in the door. Write strategy guides for free, or start out in QA and just watch over someone's shoulder when you're not doing anything.
statik_24@yahoo.com
Yes, demos (Score:2)
- You are disciplined enough to work on and stick with a project for an extended period
You don't necessarily have to write a 3D engine to impress me. Go out and get one of the many freeware engine packages out there and make an interesting demo out of it (since most companies license engines, this is very appropriate to what you will be doing anyway). Animate several objects in a complex and interesting fashion in an interesting scene. Do something that makes me laugh! In doing so you are providing me entertainment, which bodes well for your abilities to provide entertainment to others.
Understand also that there is huge competition for any given position. When I post a job ad in the paper or on the net I get hundreds of faxes/emails for the position. About 75% are people who are blatantly unqualified for the position, but the other 25% is still about 50 people or so with which you have to compete. The number of people wanting jobs in the game industry FAR outweighs the number of actual positions. Don't get discouraged! Keep working to make your demo more and more impressive while you search, and keep trying!
You could also make contact with others in your area and form a group (similar to what bedel231 has done) to work on your own game. Even if it never progresses to the point where you get published, it can still serve as your demo, and the fact that you've been involved with something that closely approximates the team-environment can only look good on your resume. This is much harder to do, but can be rewarding as well.
RE: Getting A Game Industry Job (Score:2)
What you need all depends on where you want to work. There are a lot of smaller two-programmer game developers here and there that probably can't pay very well, but would be happy to have someone with your programming background on the team. Larger studios like Blizzard or Lucas Arts, however, will definitely want some industry experience (barring internship, of course). When it comes to small-but-heavy studios like Id or Cyan, who you know is definitely just as important as what you know. In general, really, having a connection on the inside can really help your chances of getting a job. When you work long hours and interact with the same people a lot, your personal character is just as important as your skill, and if someone can say "yea, he's cool," then all the better.
Aside from that, though, having one well written, well thought-out game under your belt can help a bunch. And keep in mind that 8 or 9 of the top 10 selling PC games are completely 2d! Being able to write a fast 3d engine doesn't really get you much unless you have a lot of experience in the industry, because companies aren't going to put their eggs in your basket unless they know for sure that you're going to deliver (and on time!). Work experience is especially important when it comes to designing a game engine of any kind.
My advice is: start writing games. Find a niche that is neglected and try to fill it. Do a solid (and as complete as possible) remake of a simple console game on the PC (tetris attack, rampart, missile command, whatever). Be prepared to show the code (without saying "oh, well, this is kinda messy I just haven't gotten around to cleaning it up yet") and explain exactly why you chose to do things the way you did. Actual content graphics for a programmer demo doesn't really matter very much. And keep in mind that game companies *don't want* you to submit original works because of the legalities involved. The more skills you can demonstrate in your demo, the better. If you want to work in a particular area of game programming, such as A.I., that should affect your choice of demo material. Oh, and you may want to make sure that any prospective employer anywhere can easily find you online, read your resume, download your demo, and maybe learn a little about you on a personal level.
The last thing is headhunters. There are a lot of them in the California area, but they generally have jobs all over the place. They may be able to help you, but I've never used one. At the very least they might be able to set you up with a personal interview somewhere.
Good luck!
Re:Redundant comment ... (Score:2)
I think the most important thing you can have, besides good math and computer science skills, is a *FINISHED* game or demo.
What he said. Every single person I know in the games industry got in like this. OK - I admit, I only know one person in the industry. ;-) But yeah, one of the coders from the Amiga demo group I was in, he wrote a game, self published (via one of those cheapie CD pressing places usually patronised by indie bands), and sold by mail order. He ended up with a bunch of unsold CDs in a cupboard and lost a reasonable amount of money, but man, that kind of initiative was like gold when it came to job-hunting..
He works for Tantalus [tantalus.com.au] now..
Redundant comment ... (Score:2)
Let me confirm what others have said already:
I was fortunately able to join a games company as a programmer without previous games experience, or even a demo - but this is pretty uncommon. In my case, I was able to leverage ten years of other programming experience (network code, embedded controllers, etc.) and a strong maths background. At the other extreme, our best programmer had no formal IT experience and was basicly straight out of high school; what brought him to the interview stage was his demo.
Also, it sounds a bit mercenary, but the best time to join a company might be after they've just shipped their first game and are looking to expand. Chances are they won't have the funds to be too fussy about game industry experience, but will be desperate to get some new people in to support their next more ambitious project and to replace the 20% of people who left after the stress of the first project.
Words of a burned out games programmer :) (Score:2)
As one of "the burnouts", I can attest to the underlying truth of this post. The crunch is inevitable, it damages whatever relationship you have at the time. Schedules are pretty rough in games. With that said... You're young and energetic... You've got time to play with, a lot of energy and lessons to learn - it isn't really going to cost you a whole lot to do that now (and you'll have more fun doing it now). Spend some time in the industry. It was what I did out of school and while I would probably never go back to it, I certainly don't regret the time I spent there. I am a better software developer for it.
The pitfalls I find most game programmers fall into are: "nothing else is this fun" or "nothing else requires this much skill" or "I'm no longer qualified for anything else". Absolutely untrue! When the time comes, don't be afraid to pack up your bags and leave. It is generally true that people not in the games industry don't recognize that games are pretty complex systems and will tend to trivialize them as "kids stuff"... But if you can make it through to getting a couple games "on the shelf", chances are you could easily prove your competence to the "suits".
I left the game industry because I found the person I wanted to marry and I wanted to settle down and have kids. It's pretty rough maintaining a healthy relationship like that when you're spending 8+ weeks / year in crunch (I hear from some folks working at blizzard north that the Diablo 2 crunch lasted quite a few months). I was rather surprised with the results of my "new boring job": It paid better. I got more respect. Crunch time was short (on the order of a few days to a week before a tradeshow). The work was very challenging. I have worked with a dizzying variety of technologies. And I have better mobility - which is important if you want options when deciding where to buy a house and set down your roots. This was not The same old thing day in and day out I was led to believe would become my life if I ever left the games industry.
Start surfing the web sites of game companies with product on the shelves and look for employment opportunity links there. Even if you don't see a job for which you are qualified, email them regardless - and be upfront about the fact that you enjoy games, which of your studies are relevant to games and see what happens. Since you are in Mass right now you'll probably be getting phone interviews at the start.
Getting into the gaming industry (Score:3)
From someone in the game industry for five years (Score:3)
Write a game.
No one will hire you without experience (unless you get lucky), so give yourself your own experience. Sit down and create a complete game, 2D or 3D, with graphics (drawn in the Gimp or modeled in Blender), sound (recorded on a cheap microphone and edited in DAP), written in the language used almost exclusively in the US game industry (C++).
It doesn't have to be the most amazing thing since sliced bread, but it should do all the basic things that a game should, and do them well. It should be the kind of thing that someone should look at and say, "Wow, this guy knows how to write a game."
It doesn't have to be long, or even all that much fun. It's really more of a demo than it is a game. But it should carry all the trappings of a semi-professional title, visible the moment you load into the game.
That's how I got my first job, and that's how almost everyone I know in the industry got their first job.
FWIW, here's the companies I've worked for. They are usually always on the lookout for new talent.
Cinematix Studios [cinematix.com] in Mesa, AZ
Angel Studios [angelstudios.com] in Carlsbad, CA
Treyarch LLC [treyarch.com] in El Segundo, CA
demo! (Score:3)
They want to know what you can do. And it does _not_ have to be 3D. I've seen a lot of great 2D demos.
Howeaver you said you don't know it yet so 2 great books on the topic are:
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Spelling by m-w.com [m-w.com].
You need proof of your skills. (Score:3)
Game programming is one of the top most difficult industries in computers. You need to create fast performing code that uses top of the line hardware that most users don't have yet. You also have to do all this in very small time spans. Games have a small turn around time due to the demand and competition and also the rate at which new hardware is phased out.
So what I am trying to say is that almost all game companies want people with industry experience that will prove that they have these capabilities. Graduating from college with a degree doesn't prove you are a whole lot better than most people, even if you come from a name school. If you have a sample game or something you did on your spare time then that might prove something about you. I've been applying to game companies for a while and the only response I get is to apply again after a few years when I have real industry experience.
My approach (Score:4)