Electronic Signature Pads?

Peter Lakanen asks: "You know those electronic pads you use to sign your name at Circuit City, Sears or other places? I have a client who wants to be able to do that at branch offices. I've been researching the availability of electronic signature pads and have been sorely disappointed at the dearth of information readily available on the topic. Do any Slashdotters out there know of any companies that sell a device that allows someone to sign their name and then have software convert that signature to an image file to be stored or used in an application? Unfortunately, I'm looking for a Win32 solution but would be interested in hearing about any solutions for other systems (*nix, mac, proprietary, etc)." While a complete solution for this isn't a bad thing, why not use cheap digitizers?

Easy

[JediTrainer]

Google [google.com] is your friend. A simple search of "electronic signature capture" [google.com] pulls out about half a dozen candidates on the first two screens alone, including Topaz Systems [topazsystems.com] and IEPOS [iepos.com]. I'd suggest you start with these, look at more of the results, and maybe refine your google search to something more specific.

Since you're looking for a specific piece of hardware, it shouldn't be too hard to find it.

Touch Pads?

[NevarMore]

Have you considered using a drawing tablet or touch pad for this? Hell the things are sold as being good to use with a touch pen for drawing. They're for standard mouse interfaces, ps/2 and serial, so integrating in to winblows should be easy.

Wacom tablets

[bwandrews]

The Wacom tablets could be close to what you need... check them out at www.wacom.com [wacom.com]. The Graphire [wacom.com] is a cheap USB option, which can be had at your local Sam's Club [samsclub.com] store or at many fine online establishments. As you move up the scale, they have tablets such as the Intuos that can handle the "Intuos Inking Pen" [wacom.com] (so you can sign a receipt at the same time you capture, if you so choose) and at the top of the line, the PL series [wacom.com], which is a LCD screen with a tablet on top.

If you need to slide in a receipt like they do at Circuit City, a bit of plastic cut to shape and glued to the tablet shoudl work beautifully. The Graphire comes with a plastic shield anyway - just cut three/fourths of a box out of it and slide the receipt right in.

Hope this helps!

Ben

Go look.

[dmorin]

Seems like a logical place to start would be Sears or Best Buy or some other store that uses them. Walk up to a register (or buy something) and see i there's a brand name on the scanner. If not, flip it over. I expect the cashier won't care. Find a company name or two and a quick web search should do the rest.

UPS and FedEx...

[NNKK]

Just as an aside, UPS and FedEx use these too, you could try asking them who their vendor is.

Re:Wacom tablets

[dufke]

Yes, the graphires are good. I'm not sure about their resolution for writing small signatures though. They apparently [linuxdoc.org] work under Linux too, but it seems a bit painful to setup. I haven't tried it yet.
dufke
-

Where ever you implement this . . .

[Ranten_N_Raven]

. . . I will not shop there.

As a computer security professional, I truly believe I cannot trust my digitised signature being held by commercial entities. They have nothing to lose if some miscreant absconds with it and misuses it. How could I prove it's a forgery? I CAN'T!

Re:FDA Says Water Causes Cancer

[SpanishInquisition]

Thanks for the honor dude!
--

I walked out...

[cr0sh]

...of a store once (I think it was a HomeBase) because they used this and wouldn't let me sign a regular receipt. The cashier called the manager over and proceeded to insinuate that I was some nut who wouldn't sign the pad. I explained to the manager my reasoning (in a loud enough voice so that others in line could hear) that, once they have a digitized signature, how could I prove that someone has forged my name should they happen to gain access to that file? How easy it would be for an individual to cut and paste the image into a Word document, and "sign" my name to whatever they wish. How, in a day and age where mass numbers of credit card numbers are routinely stolen online and off, that I could trust that such a digitized image would be safe? Many of the customers in line got a clue, became slightly aghast (when they relized how many places they had signed on a pad), but did nod to my statements. I am certain those individuals will never sign a pad, either.

Despite my protests, the manager still insisted that I sign the "pad". I told him no, got my card back, and said I could buy my merchandise at more enlightened vendors, like Home Depot.

Is it any wonder that HomeBase is going under now (ok, maybe it has nothing to do with the pads, but it would be a nice thought)?

I never once used these pads when they first appeared at Best Buy. Then Sears got them, then HomeBase - even the post office has them (though they don't use them - yet). I tend to wonder how long it will be before they start to take a picture of your face at time of checkout (and in theory, they already do with the numerous security cameras in most places).

Kinda makes you want to wear a ski-mask and gloves whereever you shop and pay with cash (of course, once routine DNA collecting occurs, it won't matter).

Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!

Re:Where ever you implement this . . .

[peccary]

As a computer security professional, I truly believe I cannot trust my digitised signature being held by commercial entities. They have nothing to lose if some miscreant absconds with it and misuses it. How could I prove it's a forgery? I CAN'T!

As a computer security professional, I understand that technology does not exist in complete isolation from the law.

A signature on a document is only one piece of evidence that you intended to be bound by a legal contract. The signature is not a magic spell, it's only part of a so-called "evidentiary chain," that is used to demonstrate that you did, in fact, agree to do something.

Now, if you repudiate that contract, the signature will be brought into court as evidence. You will deny having executed that signature. The other party will ask "how else could this signature exist?" You will say that it was forged. They will consult an expert who will inform the court that it's a damned good forgery, and that it's incredibly unlikely that any human could forge your signature so well. Your expert will inform the court that the signature has been electronically captured by a machine and could have been mechanically forged quite easily. The court will look for other evidence, to determine who is lying. The other party will demand to search your posessions for the property in question, to show that you do actually own the item which you said you didn't purchase. And in the end, the court will decide who is telling the truth, same as today.

Also, please note that your signature can be extracted from paper documents as easily as it can be extracted from an electronic pad. If anything, the electronic pad data is less prone to abuse.

Not just a bitmap

[peccary]

You don't want just the 'ink', you want the pressure and acceleration data. That is much more resistant to forgery. So you need something a bit more sophisticated than a PDA.

Re:Not just a bitmap

[dthv]

The Synaptics touchpad can measure pressure. That is, the little icon in the system tray which shows the touchpad in use changes colours with applied pressure so I expect that pressure data must be available from the device. And acceleration is easy to calculate from position and time.

You can check out http://www.synaptics.com

I am not affiliated but I like the touchpad in my laptop.

Re:Where ever you implement this . . .

[sgifford]

I worried about this for a few weeks after I first encountered one of those pads, and eventually decided the risk was entirely on the store and not on me.

As several other people have pointed out, it is just as easy to steal and misuse a paper signature as a digital image of one.

The problem is that it is impossible for the store using these devices to distinguish between a real image of a signature and a forged one (imagine a device spliced in between the signature pad and the cash register with record/playback functions).

But the store is the one that wants proof that I actually made the purchase. If they choose to have extremely weak proof, that doesn't really hurt me very much at all. Certainly no more than the fact that stores rarely check signatures, and certainly aren't well-trained enough to detect even a mediocre forgery. In either of these circumstances, if the store tried to insist I had really signed a sales slip, we'd end up in court, experts would testify that their proof is very weak, and that would be that.

Re:Where ever you implement this . . .

[lizrd]

I'd have to agree with you here. I actually see a few other benefits to this system. In general I've noticed that at stores which have those pads the clerks are better about actually looking at your signature sinceit appears on their screen. This protects me and I like that. In addition, you don't leave the clerk with your credit card number, expiriation date and your ink signature. Once you've signed the pad and the clerk pushes the enter button your signature is gone from them forever. If I'm going to give trust over a copy of my signature and credit card information to anyone, I'd rather trust the database admin than some poor kid who works for minimum wage selling very expensive things to yuppies.
_____________