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Science

How Many Hamsters Does It Take To Pull A Dogsled? 24

cowgin asks:"My coworkers and I were talking about dog sleds and the different type of dogs that pull dog sleds. We also talked about how many dogs there are in a dog sled team. Then I thought in the my usual slashdot manner, "how many hamsters would it take to pull a dog sled?" Unfortunately, I thought aloud. Needless to say that there were many stares (very blank stares). I envision some sort of harness that could be attached to those toy balls that allow the hamster to roam freely. Does anybody have any ideas on how many hamsters it would take to move a dog sled?"
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How Many Hamsters Does It Take To Pull A Dogsled?

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  • by Byteme ( 6617 )
    ...now that we have genetic engineering.

  • It really depends on what kind of hamsters your talking about. If your talking about normal domesticated hamsters, I would say approximately a thousand or so to move a dog sled - if it is possible at all. But if your referring to transgenic hamsters whose genes have been spliced with the physical traits of the Himalayan "grunting ox" Bos grunniens, I would say one.


    At least we're getting down to serious topics now :)

  • by scotpurl ( 28825 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @02:12PM (#322282)
    African, or European hamsters?
  • And of course if you slap Type R or Powered By Mugen stickers on all your hamsters you'll get double the horsepower. And give em clear turn signals for at least another 10%.
  • One, given a sufficiently steep hill.
  • 391???

    If you want my respect, give it first...

  • 1) Hook the sled up to your cousin Carl (the one who made you eat a toad as a child), and place one hamster in his longjohns. You should see some movement immediately.

    2) Does anyone else remember that idiot 80s cartoon "Pandamonium" [80scartoons.net]? There were three or four pandas that could come together to form one giant panda? (Perhaps the worst Voltron-inspired ripoff ever.) Anyway, make a similarly stupid cartoon that allows a thousand hamsters to similarly meld into one giant hamster.

    3) Several people have pointed out the problem of the hamsters freezing in the cold climate. There's a great solution for this problem: simply begin throwing the frozen hamsters opposite to the direction of travel. Newton's First Law will have you zipping along in no time!

    4) There's also the "hamster-fired" furnace idea for a steam powered sled, but I should probably stop...

    (Disclaimer: For the humor-impaired, I don't advocate cruelty to hamsters. Frankly, my husky mixed dog is laughing his furry ass off right now about the thought of hamsters as sled pullers, and the ideas are his, not mine.)

  • Thats one dead hampster!
  • ...if you're a Mayberry Melonpool [melonpool.com] fan. (Go, Sammy [melonpool.com] !)
  • Well, no one has ever met my hamster. I call her "Zippy." Her day consists of sleeping and eating. If truly inspired, she runs on her hamster wheel for 10 minutes, and then returns to sleeping and eating.

    The question is not how many hamsters would it take, but rather, how would you motivate the hamsters to work, given their rather lethargic nature? I can see my hamster getting worked up about it for about 2 minutes, if a yogurt drop or other tasty treat were involved. Beyond that, best of luck.

    Darn antisocial rodent.
  • Everything posted on /. for the past few days seems to be some lame attempt at humour. I am shocked to find this serious question, today of all days.
    In fact, given the global implications, I'm surprised this hasn't been asked before; what with the entire lack of hamster proliferation treaties, anyone could build an army of said sleds and march across the globe.
    First off, before dealing with numbers of hamsters at all, you need to decide on what sled you want to use. A good idea would be to use a range of metal and wooden sleds. The type of hamster used is very important, especially if you consider steroid fed 'burn-out' units(i.e. hamsters that are only expected to do one run). The size of sled would depend on what equipment/personell the sled was carrying, and the number of hamsters used would be directly proportional to that weight. This is always measured in metric units(g/kg) because of the terrible 1984 Gerbil powered Hovercar tragedy.

    REMEMBER to train your hamsters carfully!!!
    They must all run in the same direction and respond to the crack of whip, if pulled in the traditional manner(5-10 lines of hamsters harnessed to the front of the sled, pulling it behind them). If they can't all run in the same direction, they could pull against the harness, trip themselves and the hamsters around them, then be promptly squished by the sled carried on by momentum.
    A much better idea is to mount two caterpillar tracks, each full of hamsters, beneath the sled. Stimulus is provided by a small lcd/plasma display mounted at the front of each caterpillar track module, running the hamster.c stimulus program. This is activated by a button press on the sled's control panel. Thus, the vehicle would look like this:

    _______|_a________
    (________________) b


    The vehicle is still considered a sled because, either side of the caterpillar module, b, are two struts that allow the sled to take advantage of any down-hill terrain. The control panel, a, automatically extends the struts when the caterpillar unit is disengaged. Using a series of cogs, wheels and pullies you can reduce the number of hamsters needed. Further reductions can be achieved by using advanced localisation effects in quantum physics, but to do that you'd have to make sure that every journey started at an accelerator such as CERN.
    In order to realistically employ a small amount of hamsters, you have to educate them. Genetics would be pivotal here, as the hamsters would practically have to be 'uplifted' to understand the philosphy of things. Then explain to them that, because the sleigh doesn't really exist, any one hamster can pull it alone. Further-more, as long as you think along similar lines, you can reason down even further that the hamster is unecessary to move the non-existant sled, as it too is non-existant and thus you reach the final answer that it takes 0 non-existent hamsters to pull an infinite amount of non-existant sleds.

    (It's amazing what you can think of waiting for a program to download on a 56k modem)

    8)
  • Use lemmings instead! They're bigger, cuter (well, not really), and they even have their own PC Games. What more do you need?

    Of course, they'll probably end up jumping off a cliff, but nobody's perfect!

    Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
  • by bosef1 ( 208943 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @03:03PM (#322292)
    and we can start to work with this. We can then also approximate sled dogs as spheres, and imagine that they are rolling, and dragging the sled behind them. So if we know the radius of a dog sphere, and the radius of a hamster sphere, the ratio between them should give us some idea of the proportionally constant between the number of dogs and the number of hamsters we need to pull a sled. Of course, I don't know how big a dog sphere or hamster sphere would be, so someone help me out.

    The other problem is how to give the hamsters the traction they need to pull the sled. The idea of the plastic balls with hamsters inside is a good one, but you would also need some cleats on the balls to let them bit into the snow and give the hamsters purchase.
  • The idea here is to have several hundred hamsters in several hundred wheels (with ratcheting action, to keep them all spinning the same direction), all of which belt-drive several hundred small generators (those tiny motors you can get at Radio Shack) and wire them in series or parallel (I don't remember enough EE to make the distinction, but it's trivial anyway to feed it through a transformer.)

    The power generated should be nearly equivalent of a Lego Mindstorm motor...the part of delivering the power to create motion is left to the reader, or at least to the next person who replies to this post.
    Thus sprach DrQu+xum.
  • Does it matter?

    I think 1 (one) would suffice, in the case of the sled passenger being Richard Gere.

  • by ffsnjb ( 238634 )
    531,743? What the hell kind of question is this?
  • I'm sure if you beat a dog attached to a sled with a whip with the intent of locomotion, you won't get into too much trouble with the humane society. But whip a 1000 hamsters, i'm sure your gonna kill at least a couple. You wanna see what blood looks like on snow? I just hope children aren't watching. But at least they'll get some exercise; those tubby balls of fur.

  • Slashdot : the one forum I hoped I would never have to read the phrase "hamster tushies."

    From a purely theoretical standpoint, I would believe hamster levitation would be a more appropriate use of our time and brainpower. Rather than dealing with the energy drains of kinetic friction, whose combined effect (given the surface contact and total mass of the sheer number of cricetus cricetuses required for locomotion) would likely have devastating effects for both sled and hamsters alike, I believe the correct solution would be the proverbial "Santa's Sleigh" method of locomotion -- or, hamster levitation.

    Whether an object will or will not levitate in a magnetic field B (which I will offer as the currently most accessable higher-altitude levitation method) is defined by the balance between the magnetic force F = MB and gravity mg = V g where is the material density, V is the volume and g = 9.8m/s^2. The magnetic moment M = (/ 0)VB so that F = (/0)BVB = (/20)VB^2. Therefore, the vertical field gradient B^2 required for levitation has to be larger than 20 g/. Molecular susceptibilities are typically 10^-5 for diamagnetics and 10^-3 for paramagnetic materials and, since is most often a few g/cm^3, their magnetic levitation requires field gradients ~1000 and 10 T^2/m, respectively. Taking l = 10cm as a typical size of high-field magnets and B^2 ~ B^2/l as an estimate, we find that fields of the order of 1 and 10T are sufficient to cause levitation of para- and diamagnetics. This result should not come as a surprise because, as we know, magnetic fields of less than 0.1T can levitate a superconductor (= -1) and, from the formulas above, the magnetic force increases as B^2.
    (My thanks to the Nijmegen High Field Magnet Laboratory for that summary, and my utter contempt for Slashdot for not having support for SUP/SUB tags, heh).

    So, since we are in our realm of fantasy, let's (somehow, and disregard our generators' mass or add it to our existing sled's mass) generate a magnetic field of approximately (this is a mere brainfart of a guess, the actual number is likely close, but just as likely off by a few units) 15 Teslas/hamster. Yes, this is an extremely high number that is not currently accessable by portable magnetic generation units (that would fit on a dog sled, say); however, one must understand that hamsters (and their corresponding tushies) are NOT naturally ferromagnetic, thus we resort to molecular magnetism, using each hamster as an appropriate diamagnetic object (and requiring an increased B-field to account for it).

    This has its advantages, a small number of which I will enumerate here:

    1.) Clean levitation. We're not using a gas-powered turbine engine to generate air-resistance-based 'hover' units, simply using the grand power of diamagnetism.

    2.) We reduce the direct cold-weather contact that the hamsters have with the earth. Keep in mind, your average dogsled is used in an environment not suited to the short pedals of the common hamster. The rodents would likely disappear under the harsh snow and die of exposure quickly (in addition to making locomotion impossible). Indeed the air-resistance drag against the hamsters would be cold, however this may be circumvented via Gore-Tex brand protective clothing.

    3.) The sheer amusement factor of levitating hamsters would not only be a large morale-booster but a potential profit-maker for anyone fool enough to venture into the field.

    In conclusion, I insist you don't use hamsters for ground-based dogsled locomotion. If you insist on using members of the Rodentia order to assist in your endeavors, I ask that you help advance the science of diamagnetic levitation and protect the poor little bastards from the harsh northern winters, as well.

    Ryan Bruels

  • You can't use hamsters to pull a dogsled because they are tropical animals, and if you take them to the Arctic, they will freeze their little hamster tushies off.

    How about snowshoe hares or baby seals?

    On the other hand, with the current trends in global warming and projected melting of the polar ice caps, maybe the idea of using hamsters isn't so very far-fetched after all.

  • On a frictionless surface the hamster wouldnt move either.
  • What is your name?

    Sir Arthur of Camelot

    What is your favorite color?

    Blue

    What is the average velocity of a hamster pulling a dog sled?

    A European or an Afican dog sled?

    I don't know that. Ahh!
  • Difficulty:
    Above the fact that a hamster sled is a very bad idea in terms of efficiency, and the troubles involved in making thousands of tiny harnesses and attaching them to the sled somehow, there are certain definite things that may preclude this hamster sled from working at all.

    1) Surface area/weight. Movement is created from both gravity pushing down on the hamsters and them using it to get friction on the ground, while pushing forwards. Since we are assuming there would be a limit to the number of hamsters you could actually connect to a sled. They may not have the weight to pull it. Even the strongest hampster would simply slip under too much pressure. Unless of course it had some way to cling on to the ground.

    2) Motivation/Direction. Unlike dogs, hamsters are not socially pack animals, neither are they as easily trained. Convincing such a large number of creatures to strain themselves in such a task is difficult enough, let alone trying to get them go in the same direction. The natural 'scatter' instinct could leave the sled trapped. In addition to this, hamsters are not known for being all that hard working, unless it applies to chewing a hole in something.

    3) Terrain. The most common, and certainly the most effective use of sleds, has always been in a snowy climate. Dogs and other larger animals are usually taller than the snow, hamsters are not. This could lead to several issues that would have to be dealt with. While it would be entertaining to see a sled with no visible source of movement, the hamsters would not find it as amusing, and would also have trouble seeing where they were going, not to mention the stress of tunneling(or leaping) through the snow. Another advantage of being taller is the greater ability to scale tall terrain. If a dog were to encounter a street curb, it could climb up it, while a hamster would have to find a way around.

    Scientific Testing:
    If someone really wanted to find this out without actually doing it, here is my suggestion. First get a sled, a hamster, some lengths of string, and some weights of varying, uh, weight. Then place the sled on the type of terrain you wish to test, but do so near a very small cliff or on a table. Attaching the weight to the sled, hang the weight over the edge, add weights until they move the sled at the desired speed. Then try a similar test with a hamster. Be sure that the hamster weighs more then then the weight to prevent flying hamsters (Note: always prevent flying hamsters!). Lighten the weights on the hamster until it can pull it at the desired speed. Then devide the finished weight of the first weight, by the final weight of the second weight. This will yeld the correct answer!
  • It will change the ground speed velocity.
  • Well... if it was pulled with hamsters.. wouldnt it technically be called a hamstersled? If the dogs that pull the sled create the "dogsled" then hamsters pulling a sled of the same effect would create a "hamstersled," henceforth making it completely impossible to pull a sled completely by hamsters and still be able to call it a "dogsled." Lets show some tact here people!

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