Inexpensive Storage of Terrabytes on WORM Media? 30
noSpaceleftonDevice asks: "The company I work for stores large amounts of data on magnetic-optical platters. We currently buy these for about $60 per 4.6 GB platter. So far, we have over a terabyte stored, which really adds up (especially considering each items is stored on multiple disks and stored off site for redundancy and safety), and my guess is that we will write that much again in the next 12 months. We could use standard write-once CDs (which are much cheaper), but each terabyte would require well over 1000 CDs (not counting redundancy). Writing to, storing and managing this many platters quickly becomes unmanageable. I'm wondering if any of the Slashdot community knows of a better/faster/cheaper way to write large amounts of data on Write-Once Read-Many media."
Some clarification (Score:1)
Thanks all for the suggestions- please keep them coming!
Managing Jukeboxes (Score:1)
¹There are 200-CD jukeboxes. Why not 2000? (Score:1)
You manage 1000's of CD's. Then recommend this one again.
There are CD jukeboxes sold in the consumer market that hold 200 discs [zdnet.com]. It wouldn't be too difficult to scale up the concept to thousands.
Re:Some clarification (Score:1)
Re:Tape Backup (Score:1)
yah... (Score:1)
Re:¹There are 200-CD jukeboxes. Why not 2000? (Score:1)
If you dont know, or have no experience, MOVE on, POST elsewhere, where you may have good valid experience and input.
Think ...it's not going to hurt.
also (Score:1)
Re:Some clarification (Score:1)
Or you will need to keep the old system around for a long time.
Re:Some things coming soon, not fast enough. (Score:1)
Second, you can use any platform for your storage with OTG so I would not call it NT only. Disk extender works best with WMRM type drives (SNAP server anyone??.) I would setup a data warehouse if you don't already have one (there is a new SNAP server coming out 750Gig raid 5.) Also, you will want to upgrade to lager disks. Use the warehouse to buffer your older data, you won't have to change disks as often.
DLT will make for less disks but I don't know how long you need to keep this data. Upgrading(if you can) the system you have is your best bet, maybe you can get something that is backwards compatable.
Re:Parse error (Score:1)
Onepoint
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Re:Obvious answer... (Score:1)
here's the link:
article [slashdot.org]
It seems to me that if you could find a company to build you burners with a greater than 4x density, you'd have a very compact, and (all things considered) secure storage media. Secure for the single reason that you'd be the only people with the CD drives capable of reading disks of that density.
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If you can wait until Q1 2002... (Score:1)
The disks are the same size as cd's and dvd's, but are transparent w/ a tint, and will initially hold 140GB of data on 30 layers. Again, that's the first generation disk, they also plan to release 100 layer disks later on, and disks with capacities of up to a terabyte. The speed is also extremely fast compared to current cd and dvd reading/writing technology. They say it will be able to read at speeds exceeding a gigabit/sec because of their parallel data access technology. The parallel access allows it to access data on multiple layers and tracks simultaneously for increased speed. The disks are also more reliable than cd's and dvd's because they aren't as prone to data loss from scratches/imperfections on the surface.
The other thing you might like is that they're planning a disk 200mm in diameter for corporate archival.
You should take a look at the company website (http://www.c-3d.net [c-3d.net]), lots more information than I can provide. I do hope this helps.
-BLM
Re:Why not use hard drives? (Score:2)
I have a few IBM drives at home (some old, some new) that have WARM capabilities built in -- the first is a write protect jumper -- no biggie, if you want to change the data, just change the jumper.
The other is the most amusing -- it is another jumper flanked by a big red caution label. If you bridge this circuit, it actually blows some of the PROM, namely the part that allows data to be written to the disk.
This has been another useless fact.
Appropriate /. fortune... (Score:2)
* gb notes that fdisk thinks his cdrom can store one terabyte -- Seen on #Linux
Kind of amusing...
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Re:Why not use hard drives? (Score:2)
Howabout a hybrid solution: I store the files as normal backups, on tape/disk/whatever, but store a secture hash on the worm drive. So I use the worm capabilities to provide the authentication, but the price-per-bit of magnetic drives for the data.
hrm?
On a side note, I seem to recall plan-9 using a worm to do its nightly backups. However, since they were all incremental, they didn't need much space -- I recall Richie (I think) musing that storage capacity was growing faster than they were using it...
Re:Some clarification (Score:2)
does all of it need to be on WORM, or can you just use that to store several hashes? I'm suggesting you use normal TAPE to store the backups and then store a hash on WORM. The hash authenticates the non-tamper resistant tape, while remaining cheap and convenient since you only need one.
Parse error (Score:2)
error - parse.c (223): 'inexpensive' and 'terrabyte' detected in the same sentence
A $1 per GB solution (Score:2)
Re:¹There are 200-CD jukeboxes. Why not 2000? (Score:2)
I'm not going to call this Ask Google because I think there can be a lot added by discussion that you wouldn't otherwise get.
Re:Why not use hard drives? (Score:2)
Why not contract it out (Score:2)
Arrgh (Score:2)
Tape Backup (Score:2)
Some things coming soon, not fast enough. (Score:2)
HP will have 10.4 GB optical platters and jukeboxen out by the fall. I have used HP's optical products for a few years now and found them to be solid. if you get the new juke, the 2400ex(really the 1200ex model with 10GB drives), you can get 2.4TB in one refrigerator sized unit.
There are a few vaporware items floating around, like the Flourescent optical disks that hold 140GB on a disk, but fat chance youll see any them soon or cheap.
as far as management software goes, OTG's Disk Xtender is the best JB management software, bar none. I know y'all may be turned off to the fact it is an NT only solution, but frankly the only *nix offerings I've seen SUCK ASS (KOM is the absolute worst). The box _will be for a dedicated function, and so many slashdotters forget that businesses want a solution, not a linux server or an NT server. They dont care for platform, aside from operating standards, what runs it.
Keep in mind your requirement for static unchangeable data. You're not going to get that without paying the price. You may ask, "does the data need to be stored that way?"
Re:A $1 per GB solution (Score:2)
Re:Why not use hard drives? (Score:2)
Dont gimme the "you can make the device read only after the files write or the volume fills", it wont hold up in court.
Re:Some clarification (Score:2)
I have broken the problem down a bit maybe this will help you
my idea is based of the following
1) short term storage is not required to be "wormed"
2) long term storage has to be "wormed"
3) there is flexability
I would look at the solution as this
1) hard drive servers gathering the daily/weekly/whatever rate data ( hot swap boxes to prevent down time )
1a) link all this to a tape backup server
2) tape drive system copies the data in a specific order that you have determined
2a) tape system lets you store huge amount of data cheaply. That might give you the edge when you need to store big amounts of information.
3) taped data transfered to optical system that is jukebox.
4) optical system stores data for warehousing
I'm thinking of the VDF16000 that has something around the area of 10-16 gigs of storage per 12" disk. and they have a jukebox system up to 1 tera + now this is going back about 3 years ago so there has to be something better. try looking at sony or philips I recall that they had something like this also.
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Why not use hard drives? (Score:2)
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Obvious answer... (Score:3)