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Apple Input Devices on x86? 21

Posted by timothy from the it's-so-universal dept.
PimpBot asks: "So, after using a Apple G4 Tower, I fell in love with the Apple Pro Keyboard. Unfortunately, being a poor recent college graduate, I can't afford a shiney new QuickSilver Tower. Does anyone know a way of using the Pro keyboard on a x86 box? The keyboard is USB, which hopefully means I can just plug it on an x86, and have it work under Linux and Windows. Of course, I don't really want to blow $60 unless I know it'll work. Anyone out there know the answer?" Unfortunately, Apple's page on the keyboard doesn't address this. Anyone out there using these, or finding glitches?

Apple made good keyboards (depending on taste) before anyone thought of USB, too -- It looks like iogear.com sells hardware that will let you attach that old Extended II (search for "ADB") -- but of all the keyboard-sharing hardware and software listed at macwindows.com, nearly all of it goes the other direction (PS/2 --> Mac). The Griffin iMate claims to turn your ADB keyboard into a generic input device under USB-friendly versions of Windows. Can anyone vouch for the effectiveness of going with Mac input devices through such adapters?
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Apple Input Devices on x86? More

Apple Input Devices on x86?

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  • A conditional yes (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have used one of the usb keyboards that came with the older iMacs on an x86 under both windows and linux and it works under both. I cant comment on the apple pro keyboard, but my suspicions say yes.
  • f there's any problem it's with using a USB KVM. The Linux PC needs to be switched to 'active' when booting, and be given a chance to recognize the keyboard. Otherwise it (or any other USB device) won't be recognized.

    Might want to try out IOGear's new MiniView II KVM switchbox. It's got this odd "ghosting" technology which basically makes the system think whatever devices are plugged in are there, even when you're on another input. This translates into no delay when switching to a different input, since it doesn't have to plug 'n play the USB bus.

    Unfortunately I think a side effect of this is that keyboard & mouse are represented as a keyboard & mouse INSIDE the switchbox, not the make/mfg of the connected components. Creates trouble when trying to get remap/driver software working - doesn't see the hardware, won't load the software.

    YMMV of course. Probably a way aroundit, I just don't have the time to figure it out.
  • Apple followed the HID standard with their keyboards, just like pretty much every recent manufacturer. The problem with that is HID codes are defined, with room for extension. The volume/CD eject keys fall under that category, and your Windows key mapping will be slightly strange.

    I used an older Apple USB keyboard on my Windows 2000 machine for a while as a secondary. All the normal keys would work as expected. The left Mac option ke matched with the Windows alt key, and IIRC the Apple (command) key mapped to the left Windows key.

    As I said, the HID stuff will be somewhat annoying. My main goal was to map the Mac power button to the Windows lock functionality. Most of the key remappers for Windows rely on a special Windows PS/2 subsytstem. Since USB/HID bypasses all PS/2 stuff, I found it impossible to remap the key.

    So, basically, you can use the keyboard. Standard functionality will be there. Just don't expect the KB to do backflips for you.
  • Really? I had problems using anything except a SUN keyboard on the 'blade 100. Well, any keyboard works, really, except at boot time, where the 'blade won't see any keyboard except SUN's... meaning it'll go to serial console unless the SUN keyboard is plugged in. Does the 'blade 1000 not have this problem?


    --
  • Duh! I should've checked the PROM... grrrrrrrr.

    Well, I guess I still can, except I relly don't need it doing anything graphic right now.


    --
  • I'm doing it right now.
  • USB is a standard for the time being. Of course Intel is not happy about ieee1394 (Firewire, iLink) and is doing its best to give us many USBs which are of course "backward compatible".

    For the moment "plug and type"tm.

    If you are using OS X you can of course use a 3 button USB mouse on your Mac too.

    My experience is limited to my Vaio Picture book running RedHat 6.2 and 7.1.
  • Me too. I've got a Dr Bott USB switcher and am using it for a Mac, PC w/ Win2k, and a PC w/ RH7.0 Linux.

    If there's any problem it's with using a USB KVM. The Linux PC needs to be switched to 'active' when booting, and be given a chance to recognize the keyboard. Otherwise it (or any other USB device) won't be recognized.
  • 1)
    It's a USB keyboard. So it SHOULD work. But, as others have said, the eject, volumes, and mute keys go beyond the "basic" USB spec. So expect them to act funky. I've NO idea how command and option will map.

    2)
    Just buy one from Frys. Try it out. If it doesn't work, you can easily take advantage of their liberal return policy, and... uh... not too bright employees, to get your money back.

    Easy enough.

    cya,
    john

    Resistance is NOT futile!!!

    Haiku:
    I am not a drone.
    Remove the collective if

  • I'm running an Apple Pro on a Dell Windows 2000 machine with almost no difficulties. (It's a Dr Bott USB switchbox with my Mac).

    There are only three issues I'm aware of: the first is that drivers may not be available. On Win2K, this seems to present no problem; it's just plug-and-go. I have heard that Win98 and WinMe machines need to have a NEC USB keyboard-with-hub driver selected/installed.

    Second, if you're switching (which it sounds like you're not), some USB drivers may not follow peripherals plugged into the keyboard. I, for example, have a Palm USB cradle which works perfectly, but my Logitech TrackMan Marble becomes unrecognizable after switching (or even just un-plugging and re-plugging). It is still usable, but it is treated as a two-button device, and all button assignments are lost.

    Third, the keys are not all where you explect them to be. The 'Logo' key and Alt keys are reversed on Mac keyboards, and the Context key, Scroll Lock, Print Screen, and Pause/Break buttons are missing entirely (no, the F13-F15 keys do not function as Scroll Lock, etc.) I have yet to locate a keyboard mapping utility that can compensate for this.
  • http://www.apple.com/keyboard/
  • Here are a couple of decent pics of the Pro Keyboard. The first photo shows the keyboard in its natural habitat (next to the Apple speakers, Apple mouse, and the old Apple CRT monitor). Sort of fits in with Apple's "I wanna be crystal" plastics. Second two are stock Apple photos of the thing. Last one is a link to a page with some Apple mouse photos (what a *weird* mouse!).

    URLs Presented In Plain Text For Your Protection!

    • http://www.cube-zone.com/gallery/desk20.jpg
    • http://www.allusb.com/pi/P10999.jpg
    • http://www.macgamer.com/events/mworld-ny00/image s/ P0001656.jpg
    • http://www.wap.org/journal/applepromouse/applepr om ouse.html

  • Haven't tried Apple, but Sun USB keyboards work fine on Intel boxes, and I am using a Logitech wireless keyboard on my Blade 1000 right now.
  • hmm

    I've used a Blade 100 in this manner too (hell of alot easier to swap a wireless keyboard)

    Maybe I haven't rebooted, but I'm pretty sure that I have.

    Maybe there is an openboot setting to force it to boot in keyboard mode.

  • It May Work / How to Remap (Score:3)

    by CritterNYC ( 190163 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2001 @07:47AM (#2183401) Homepage
    It may work with your PC. It seems some folks found that the BIOS could not detect it on bootup. At least, according to a discussion at usb.org [usb.org] and a few other places.

    I did find a reference to an old key remapper. ZDNet actually made one a while ago called ZDKeyMap [zdnet.com] thet you can download at CNET [cnet.com]. It says it only works with Windows 95 and on standard keys. You'd have to try it in Win98 and see if it still worked.

    A better option may be JRkey [lummoxjr.com]. This project's goal is to create a generic, open-source, freeware multimedia keyboard driver for Windows 98. It looks promising, though it is still in Alpha.

    Also, the Windows 2000 Server Resource Kit has a utility called Reymapkey.exe [microsoft.com] which is supposed to let you remap scancodes.
  • I have am iMac (with Pro keyboard) and a Win98 PC. Occasionally I swap the keyboards (if I have some obscure need for it).

    It does work on Windows 98. Only the standard keys, though. The advanced keys (Fkeys, PgUp, PgDown etc.) would probably have to be mapped via some sort of universal customizable driver.
  • Yeah, I'm using the pro keyboard with my Thunder K7 under windows 98, 2000, and linux. No special drivers needed. Here's a few more tidbits of info that'll hopefully be helpful:

    0. There's a slight flaw in the design of the whole keyboard. It's not obvious at first... I generally get a few crumbs in my keyboards (just a few - it's not a buffet in there) and guess what happens with a clear case? The crumbs sink to the bottom and you can see them through the back. Gross.

    1. Setting the bios to use the usb keyboard works fine -- until you reflash the bios and it loses the setting and you have to dig up your iopener keyboard to get back into the bios to change it back (doh!)

    2. Under linux, the extra keys look like they are being lost at a rather low level. X doesn't see the difference in keys, and the kernel seems to map a bunch of undefined keys to 0. I didn't look into the USB HID spec, and wasn't ambitous enough to mod it to print out the pre-looked up raw codes.

    3. The "help" key is the insert key, right where it should be. I don't think anyone mentioned that.

    4. The keyboard is really well made, feels solid, and is just a joy to use. However, this is a drawback when trying to open it (perhaps to change the green LEDs out for some k-rad white LEDs) -- the bottom edge of the keyboard seems to clip the top half on both sides, so you it's impossible to push it one way and have it snap apart. It looks like a special tool is needed if it's at all possible. Fortuantly, since the case was clear I could see the damage to the top half (the holes were stretching out) before I tore it all to pieces.

    5. I was able to listen to CD's with my usb cd-rw through the keyboard's hub. I thought this was supposed to be a no-no, (because a low-rate keyboard may only include a low-rate hub) but it worked. Didn't feel ambitious enough to try burning.

  • One Caveat (Score:4)

    by dhovis ( 303725 ) on Monday July 30, 2001 @08:18AM (#2183404)
    One thing that I have notice when you swap Mac/PC USB keyboards is that the modifier keys get swapped around.

    The Apple "Command" Key (The one with the cloverleaf design on it) becomes the Windows "Start" Key and Option becomes Alt. This is reversed from their orientation on a PC keyboard. I suspect you can remap them, but I'm not sure. My only experience is with a PC USB keyboard on a Mac.

    I have no idea what Linux would map to the "Command" Key, but a USB keyboard is a USB keyboard, pretty much.
    --

  • Offtopic ? That wasn't offtopic ! THIS is offtopic. That was a troll, maybe underrated if you are a coward.

    Oh well. At least someone noticed me.
  • I plugged my Apple Pro keyboard - with the mouse - into my USB hub, which is plugged into my USB A/B switch. I press one button on my switch, and I'm using them on my Cube. I press another button, and I'm using them on my PC. Only problem is I can't seem to get right mouse button functionality at all. This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that I can use my PS-2 keyboard and mouse at the same time as the USB stuff. If I want to right-click, I grab the PS-2 mouse. If I want to mess with my BIOS, I use the PS-2 keyboard. Otherwise, I just flip the switch and go. I did this because two keyboards takes up too much space on my desk. I didn't install any drivers, so it might work better if I did so.
  • I have tried using an Apple Pro USB keyboard on my windows box and it works perfectly.
    I would be using one too if I didn't love my M$ keyboard so much. The apple keyboard is also very sexy.

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